In Between Them

Shannon Darrow
  • 5.0 (4)
  • Personal Journals

Divorce shapes childhood in ways parents often can't see—especially when they're in the middle of an emotional fog, fear, or in survival mode. In Between Them is a parenting podcast that brings forward the voices we rarely hear: the children of divorce, now grown, reflecting on the experiences that shaped them. Hosted by an entrepreneur and mother who navigated her own divorce with a newborn, this family dynamics podcast offers personal understanding and professional insight in every conversation. Raised in a traditional nuclear family but later thrust into a co-parenting reality, the host believes every story matters—because children don't choose divorce, yet they feel its ripples the most. Each episode features honest, vulnerable storytelling from people who lived through their parents' divorce. Some stories are painful. Some are healing and inspiring. All of them reveal what truly impacts a child when a family changes—and what helps them thrive. Unlike most parenting podcasts focused on legal advice or therapy perspectives, this show centers the lived experience of the children themselves, providing clarity for parents who want to make better, more thoughtful, child-centered decisions. Whether you're a parent, professional, or someone who lived it yourself, you'll find wisdom, compassion, and guidance in these conversations. Because understanding the child's perspective might just be the key to doing divorce better. If you or someone you know is contemplating divorce, or in the midst of it, these stories can change a child's life forever. To contribute your own story, please contact sdarrow@onward-mc.com directly. New episodes weekly.

  1. 2d ago

    34. Susannah B - 2 years old - I Never Knew My Parents Together So Nothing Is Wrong With Me

    Susannah B was two years old when her parents split, growing up in 1970s New York City inside a creative family: her mother was singer-songwriter Carol Hall, the composer of "Free to Be… You and Me," and her father was a professional photographer working the same downtown creative scene. She has no memories of her parents together. Both agreed to stay in the city so the children wouldn't have to move between worlds, and when her stepfather came into the picture around age 6, Susannah felt she had a trio of support — three adults who loved her, even if their working artist schedules didn't look like anyone else's parenting. For years, Susannah lived by a quiet mantra she now sees for what it was: "I don't remember my parents married, so there's nothing wrong with me." It was, she says honestly, a very effective way to pack the whole thing away and not deal with it. She used that framing for decades — and it worked, in the way things "work" when you don't examine them. Then she became a mom. And a wife. And suddenly, everything she had packed away for so long began to unpack itself — not painfully, but clearly. The dots connected. She names how much of her adult processing has come through the lens of parenting her own child inside a two-parent home. Being able to see, day after day, the small partnerships and everyday co-presence she didn't have growing up gave her something she calls an invaluable perspective. Not sorrow. Understanding. The other throughline of Susannah's life — and the one In Between Them listeners will feel deeply — is music as healing. She has done the work throughout her life and has been unafraid to be vulnerable in all facets: fostering a child, adoption, having her own child, and every artistic risk in between. Through her songwriting, she creates spaces for other people who are in the hard stages of their own lives — people looking for a light and a melody to bring clarity and hope where there hasn't been much of either. Her childhood and her life have prepared her to be exactly the artist who can hold those spaces for others. About Susannah: Susannah B is a New York-raised, Los Angeles-based singer-songwriter and actress whose music blends emotional honesty, soulful melodies, and modern storytelling. Her live work centers on her collaboration with The Lowkeys — Michael Farrell (keys), Sean Hurley (bass), David Levita (electric guitars), and Victor Indrizzo (drums) — whose collective credits include work with Alanis Morissette, John Mayer, Lizzo, Beck, Lana Del Rey, Brandi Carlile, Macy Gray, Tim McGraw, and Faith Hill. Beyond music, Susannah leads songwriting workshops for at-risk youth and formerly incarcerated individuals, using creativity as a tool for healing and connection. Her message reaches more than 20,000 engaged women and music lovers. Find Susannah: Instagram: @susannahbmusic Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/1CMiWstVqqDU4DAEmPpZVY In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach and mediator, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them. Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at sdarrow@onward-mc.com. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

  2. Aug 17

    33. Leslie - 6 years old - She Became Protector, Saved Herself at 16 and Again With Her Own Divorce

    Leslie was six years old and living in Argentina when her parents divorced — inside a family already navigating heavy loss, including the recent death of her grandfather. In Argentina, therapy is deeply woven into the culture, so Leslie and her sisters were placed in therapy right away. That early exposure to psychological language has been one of the through-lines of her entire life. Her parents were high-conflict from the start of the split. Her father effectively forced her mother out of the apartment and didn't want to keep the girls, so they left together and her mother hustled to build a new home. Her father moved back in with his mother — Leslie's grandmother — as the family reeled from all the loss at once. Her dad wanted his own life. He would later say, in his own words, that he was selfish. He became what many adult children will instantly recognize as a "Disneyland Dad," while Leslie's mother handled all the real, hard, unglamorous work of parenting. Her parents cycled through reconciliations for years, and each time home life shifted with them. Their parenting styles clashed. Her father was involved intermittently but didn't help financially. When he did something truly unscrupulous while her mother was ill, that was the end. By the time Leslie was 12, they had cut ties for good — by then, the family was in America. From early on Leslie stepped into a parenting role because she saw the gaps and could not stop herself from filling them. Her mother didn't want her to, but Leslie became the protector of her younger sisters from what their mother was going through and what their household actually was. She knows now that none of it was her responsibility, but she couldn't help but take charge. Attachment theory would later explain much of it. She sacrificed her teenage years mothering her sisters, and she was also the only child who kept a relationship with her dad — carrying that connection for years despite pressure from her mother and sisters to cut him and her paternal grandmother off entirely. No matter what Leslie chose, someone made her feel guilty for it. She was constantly battling to just be herself. Her sisters, she felt, were being shaped by her mother's version of everything. In her later teens, things began to make sense. At 16, Leslie left her mother's house — a decision to save herself, which meant leaving her sisters to mature on their own. Her stepfather opened his home to her and, she says, saved her. He is her person. An ADHD diagnosis in her thirties helped even more pieces fall into place. Her relationship with her sisters was never what it could have been, and that is one of the quieter griefs she carries. In her own adult divorce, she discovered that parallel parenting — not co-parenting — was the only path to a healthy, stable, safe home for her daughter. It has been a journey, and she's navigating it beautifully. Leslie's book recommendations: It's Not You by Dr. Ramani Durvasula, Should I Stay or Should I Go by Dr. Ramani Durvasula, and The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck by Mark Manson. In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach and mediator, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them. Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at sdarrow@onward-mc.com. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

  3. Aug 10

    32. Steph - 3 years old - No Chaos, But a Disconnected Dad, Opened the Door to Blessings & Gratitude

    Steph Clymer was three or four when her parents divorced — an only child with very few clear memories of the before, which she now considers something of a blessing. She had no intact family to mourn. In this conversation, Steph offers a perspective that is rare on In Between Them: a story of a childhood divorce that landed softly, and a life that has flourished around it. Her arrangement was refreshingly flexible — no court-ordered schedule, life just shifted a lot. Maybe, she says, that's why she's so good with change today. Her relationship with her father was more casual than parental — he was, in her own words, less parent and more buddy. He "didn't know what to do" or "wasn't comfortable knowing what to do with a daughter." Maybe true, she admits, or maybe what she told herself. With her mother, though, she was deeply bonded. Her mom worked a lot, and Steph credits that dynamic with teaching her the work-life balance she carries into her own motherhood today. Mom did remarry — a roller coaster of a shift with a new stepdad and an older stepsister — but because Steph's dad wasn't actively involved, life didn't get pulled in competing directions the way blended-family life often does. It became one new family, not two competing ones. Steph never looked at her stepdad as a dad — and she owns that. She was always going to be loyal to her mother, aware of it, and never fully accepted the her stepdad in a close way. She is deeply grateful that her dad had the wisdom not to fight her mom. That single choice, she says, kept the chaos out of her childhood. Now at 45, she sees the divorce as a chapter that ended, not something that stretches into her present. She can't fully relate to friends navigating divorce and co-parenting today, because she genuinely did not live the version of it most people do. Being a mother now has reframed the whole thing. Steph reflects on what her mom must have gone through parenting alone — no partner to bounce the mundane and the big things off of — and how obvious the absence of that becomes when you have it yourself. She names her husband's parenting partnership as the thing she now most clearly sees her own mother went without. When her father passed, she felt the loss less than most would; they had never truly connected as father and daughter. What she has built is a life defined by gratitude, positivity, and the drive to find blessings and opportunities where they exist. Steph frames her story as an overcoming story, not a victim story — and she is determined to keep living it that way. Steph's book recommendations: You Squared by Price Pritchett and 10x Is Easier Than 2x by Benjamin Hardy. About Steph: Steph Clymer is a mom of three living in Newport, CA. She loves to run, spend time outside, and is blessed to run two businesses. Find Steph: Websites: shopcommonthread.com and shopfridayfeelin.com Social: @shopgirlsteph In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach and mediator, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them. Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at sdarrow@onward-mc.com. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

  4. Aug 3

    31. *Expert Alert* Lisa Zeiderman NY Divorce Atty - Do Divorce Better, Hello Prenup & Savvy Ladies

    In this expert episode, I sit down with Lisa Zeiderman — Managing Partner at Miller Zeiderman LLP, matrimonial attorney, CFL, and Certified Divorce Financial Analyst — for a conversation about what most parents miss when going through a divorce, and, more importantly, all the ways divorce can be done better. There are choices at every step — before, during, and after — that meaningfully change the outcome for the kids, the parents, and every future relationship inside the family. Lisa's core message is one of the most important things any divorcing parent can hear: they think they know what their kids are thinking and feeling — and so often, they don't. Kids get read wrong constantly. Her mission, in her own words, is to keep kids out of the line of fire as much as possible. She discusses how disparagement is a lack of good judgment. When one parent trash-talks the other in front of a child, they aren't just being petty — they're compromising their own long-term relationship with that child. Kids can't find community the way adults can. Adults leaving a marriage find friends, therapists, whole networks of people who get it. Kids have almost none of that in their peer world — and Lisa believes this is one of the most under-discussed realities of childhood divorce. Prenups are the "seasonal business" she never saw coming. Lisa is watching a wave of younger couples proactively draft prenups — not out of cynicism, but out of clarity. Many are children of divorce themselves who refuse to repeat what they lived. HelloPrenup, where Lisa sits on the Strategic Advisory Board, has made the process affordable and accessible. It gets couples talking about finances before marriage — one of the most powerful ways to do the eventual work of any marriage better. Her deepest passion: Savvy Ladies. Lisa serves as Board Chair of Savvy Ladies, a nonprofit dedicated to helping women build financial awareness and control so they are never left in the lurch or blindsided by the financial realities of a marriage. The Savvy Ladies app — built with NASDAQ and Salesforce — and its accessible Help Line are extraordinary resources. About Lisa: Lisa Zeiderman is Managing Partner at Miller Zeiderman LLP in New York. She handles litigation, complex financial and custody matters, and pre- and post-nuptial agreements. She authors the "Legal Matters" blog on Psychology Today and co-hosts the Savvy Ladies podcast "The Power of the Ask." Lisa chairs Savvy Ladies and sits on the board of Family Legal Care. Find Lisa: Website & blog: lisazeiderman.com Savvy Ladies: savvyladies.org HelloPrenup: helloprenup.com In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach and mediator, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them. Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at sdarrow@onward-mc.com. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

  5. Jul 27

    30. Mariah - 13 years old - Dad was a Stranger Until She Was Sent to Him. Mom Was Unpredictable.

    Mariah was just shy of her third birthday when her mother left her father — a Dear John letter, and Mariah in tow. They were gone for about six months. Then her parents reconnected, tried again, and that reunion held together, in name, until she was 13. What lived inside that decade of "trying again" was anything but simple. Home was tumultuous. Home was toxic. Both parents were struggling with mental illness they didn't yet have language for and self-medicating in ways Mariah wouldn't fully understand until much later. The role Mariah ended up in during those years is one many adult children of divorce will recognize instantly: sounding board. From the time she was small, she was the person her mother turned to — hoping, quietly, that her mom would share more with her friends and less with her. She sacrificed parts of her childhood to comfort her mother. Twice a year, like clockwork, her mother would unhinge and start planning to leave — and Mariah would get roped into the packing, the plotting, the emotional labor of an exit that then wouldn't happen. In sixth grade, Mariah did the math and realized it was a cycle. That's when she started tuning her mother out — building a shell so the emotions couldn't reach her. It kept her safe. In seventh grade, her mother upended everything for a rekindled romance with someone who wasn't Mariah's dad. Sadly, it was during the first time Mariah remembers feeling stable — she had friends, life felt good. Her relationship with her dad, until that point, had been the relationship of a stranger. He was an addict; he was always disconnected. He was always kind about her and positive toward her — but she was starved for his attention. Later on she was sent from her mom to go live with him. By then, he was sober. In those years together, Mariah bonded with her father for the first time, and she was exposed to AA and NA meetings that had a profound impact on her life — grace, motivation, and a template for staying clean in a family that had never modeled it. Her dad later relapsed. But the connection they built in that window was something she'd never had before, and it stayed. Mariah ended up back with her mom for part of high school, and the rollercoaster picked up right where it had left off. What she's built since is inspiring in a way that isn't loud — she's a reflective, honest, wide-open woman raising three daughters with the love, care, and support she wasn't given herself. Considering every other way her path could have gone, the joy she carries now is the whole point of this episode. About Mariah: Mariah Sheridan Runions is a mom to three girls, an entrepreneur (author, realtor, dancer, leader), and a chaser of expansion and growth. She's navigating a messy divorce while trying to remember what it felt like to be on the "kid" end of this experience. She's currently editing her memoir — and you can pre-order the book on her website. Find Mariah: Website: MariahRunions.com Instagram: @mariah_in_fernie Facebook: facebook.com/mariah.runions In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach and mediator, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them. Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at sdarrow@onward-mc.com. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

  6. Jul 20

    29. Amanda - 10 years old - She Needed To Be With Dad - Mom Wouldn't Allow - 50/50 Was Lucky

    Amanda was five when her parents separated, ten when they divorced, and about twelve when she started what she calls "split living" — an early 50/50 case before that was really the norm. She has no memory of her parents happy, and today she'll tell you clearly: they were never two people who should have been together. Life with her mother was chaotic. Amanda knew deep down she needed to live with her father, but she also knew her mother would never allow it — so she counted herself lucky to get 50/50. Looking back, Amanda names two things she wishes had gone differently. First: she wishes her parents had told her, plainly, that the divorce had nothing to do with her. Second: she wishes someone had recognized that the constant uncertainty was building a hypervigilance in her that still permeates her life today. Triangulation was constant. As she grew, she could see the pattern clearly: her mother was the instigator, her father conflict-avoidant. Sometimes Amanda stirred it herself as a kid, asking her dad about something her mother had said — and the fire it lit taught her exactly what happens when a child is placed in the middle of a fight she never chose. Because her mother saw her happy at her dad's, her mother targeted him — cataloging every way "he had failed". Even into her college years, Amanda was caught between them over money. Expecting a child to know how to stay out of the middle is a responsibility no child should ever have to carry. There became a calmer place with her parents and her stepmother — Amanda credits her stepmother with much of that peace — and one of her parents' most healing gifts to her was the sentence "we did really good." Sweet validation, she says. Amanda sees now how that childhood echoed into her adulthood: abandoning herself to manage other people, retreating because she thought her presence was such a problem. She stayed in her own marriage too long because she didn't want to be the villain in someone else's story — until she eventually accepted that role in order to get out. Now, at 59 and freshly divorced, she's doing the work every day. About Amanda: Dr. Amanda Udis-Kessler is a pastor, sociologist, ethicist, author, liturgist, hymnwriter, and sacred music composer. She also offers consulting in areas including creativity, antiracism work for white people, and inclusive liturgy for churches. Find Amanda: Books: amandaudiskessler.com Worship music: queersacredmusic.com Church consulting: equippingthepropheticchurch.com Vista Grande Community Church UCC: vgcc.org Facebook: facebook.com/amanda.udiskessler YouTube: @amandaudiskessler In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them. Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at sdarrow@onward-mc.com. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

  7. Jul 13

    28. Cat - 14 years old - Divorce Did Not End the Pain - It Just Changed Things And New Pains Emerged

    Cat was 14 when years of volatility in her home finally came to a head — not because her parents chose it, but because her school finally made it real. The staff had been watching Cat, and they were seeing behaviors concerning enough to reach out to her mother. That call was the catalyst. Her mom got out. And Cat's own memory is that her mom had been trying, for as long as Cat could remember, to find a way. Leaving wasn't the end of the instability. In many ways, the divorce created a different kind of pain. Cat navigated rejection from her father. She lost a brother. Both parents continued to stir the pot of conflict from opposite sides, for years. The despair didn't end when the marriage did. Some measure of peace came only after her father passed, when Cat discovered a few items he had left behind — small proof of something she had needed for a very long time. But life with him in it was always hard. What Cat took from all of it is what makes this episode as inspiring as it is difficult to hear: she learned how to raise her own son differently, how to do better in the very places her own parents couldn't. Her story is hard in moments and remarkable in the ways she conquered it for herself and her healing. "What hurts the most isn't the separation — it's the shouting, the blame, the cold shoulders... What heals is choosing to protect your child's heart more than your ego." — Dr. Daniela Tempesta Cat's book recommendation: Embrace Abundance About Cat: Cat York is the host of the Recovery Catalyst Podcast, a space dedicated to honest conversations about addiction, recovery, and the path to healing. As a mom and storyteller, Cat strives to shine a light on these challenging topics with a focus on curiosity rather than a quick cure, fostering a deeper sense of connection and understanding. Find Cat: Linktree (all links): linktr.ee/RecoveryCatalystPodcastInstagram & Threads: @recovery_catalyst_podcast In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them. Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at sdarrow@onward-mc.com. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

  8. Jul 6

    27. James - 3 Years Old - Dad Got Custody. Mom Got 35 Days. The Men Were the Heroes

    James was three when his parents divorced. In an arrangement that flipped custody conventions of the time, his dad was awarded primary custody — because between his father and his grandparents, that side of the family offered the more stable home. His mom got 35 days a year. All of it was difficult, but Dad was the anchor. James walks us through what he calls the "hostage exchange" — the emotionally loaded handoffs when parenting time switched. His stepfather added some calm to the chaos, but the underlying relationship with his mother was volatile, and it stayed that way. Throughout his childhood, the men in his life — his dad, his grandfather, his stepfather — were the heroes. School years were unsettled: he never quite fit in, always missing enough time with friends to build the bonds other kids took for granted. When he was finally old enough to drive, the ability to choose where he was going brought a kind of comfort he hadn't felt before. Now, James channels all of it into purpose. He talks about the breakdown he sees when very masculine men are pushed out of custody conversations by outdated gender assumptions, and the concept of parental capacity — the idea that if you know what you're good at as a parent, you should parent from there, instead of pretending to be something you're not. And he shares an insight most guests don't touch: how children of divorce, when they're consistently exposed to parental conflict, can drift into suicidal ideation — and how much it matters to name that out loud, early and often. Through Lomender's Lodge, James has become exactly what his own tagline says: the man he needed, when he needed one. About James: James "Lomender" Wiley is the creator and host of Lomender's Lodge, where he explores masculinity and relationship dynamics through honest conversations and stories of personal growth — both his own and his guests'. His mission is to "be the man you needed when you needed one," offering a positive, authentic voice for men and boys of all ages and backgrounds seeking guidance in today's complex world. Find James: Website: lonewolfspeaking.wordpress.comInstagram: @lonewolf902YouTube: @LomendersLodgeThreads: @lonewolf902 A note on this episode: This conversation touches briefly on suicidal ideation as it relates to children exposed to ongoing parental conflict. If you or someone you love is struggling, please reach out — in the U.S., you can call or text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, 24/7. In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them. Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at sdarrow@onward-mc.com. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

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About

Divorce shapes childhood in ways parents often can't see—especially when they're in the middle of an emotional fog, fear, or in survival mode. In Between Them is a parenting podcast that brings forward the voices we rarely hear: the children of divorce, now grown, reflecting on the experiences that shaped them. Hosted by an entrepreneur and mother who navigated her own divorce with a newborn, this family dynamics podcast offers personal understanding and professional insight in every conversation. Raised in a traditional nuclear family but later thrust into a co-parenting reality, the host believes every story matters—because children don't choose divorce, yet they feel its ripples the most. Each episode features honest, vulnerable storytelling from people who lived through their parents' divorce. Some stories are painful. Some are healing and inspiring. All of them reveal what truly impacts a child when a family changes—and what helps them thrive. Unlike most parenting podcasts focused on legal advice or therapy perspectives, this show centers the lived experience of the children themselves, providing clarity for parents who want to make better, more thoughtful, child-centered decisions. Whether you're a parent, professional, or someone who lived it yourself, you'll find wisdom, compassion, and guidance in these conversations. Because understanding the child's perspective might just be the key to doing divorce better. If you or someone you know is contemplating divorce, or in the midst of it, these stories can change a child's life forever. To contribute your own story, please contact sdarrow@onward-mc.com directly. New episodes weekly.

Information

  • Creator
    Shannon Darrow
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    34
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Shannon Darrow