Out of Step Podcast

Andrew Carruthers

A podcast for those who live in the ecosystem of supporting others—coaches, guides, facilitators, mentors, and more—who sense there’s more on the edges of these roles than the widely accepted norms. Through stories, reflections, and honest conversations, we offer a sense of belonging, a touch of disruption, and an invitation to walk your own way beneath “the work.” Not everything will resonate, and some of this may challenge what you currently believe (that's intentional). Listen with curiosity and an open heart—take what speaks to you, leave what doesn’t.

  1. EP13 Challenging Our Beliefs From the Inside Out w/ Trevor Wyllthawk

    1d ago

    EP13 Challenging Our Beliefs From the Inside Out w/ Trevor Wyllthawk

    Those belief systems you are holding... who chose them? Did you? That's not a trick question LOL! It's something I sit with often and it's a big part of our conversation in this episode. Most of what we hold as beliefs was absorbed and formed in the background as we moved through life. Some of our beliefs and patterns formed even before we had language for them! Trevor and I dive into how belief systems form, why we hold onto them even when they're costing us, and what it actually takes to challenge them from the inside out. Trevor opens up about his own birth story and the belief that took shape in those first five days of his life... one that still shows up today. I share what came up for me after a "f**k it" weekend of camping, wine, pizza, and two helpings of ice cream (yes, twice). Neither of us have this figured out. That's kind of the point. We get into confirmation bias, the strange relief of having someone else hold our negative beliefs for us, why the body remembers what the mind can't access, and the difference between consciously choosing what you believe versus just inheriting it. This conversation is packed with good stuff! Trevor Wyllthawk is the creator of Nūma Breathwork and someone I had the privilege of learning from directly before we ever recorded this. He's spent 29 years in deep exploration through breathwork, somatics, shamanism, meditation, and ceremonial containers... including a seven-year initiation and 16-month hermitage that cracked him open to something essential beneath the stories we carry. Today he brings that wisdom into private therapy, transformational group work, and Nūma facilitator trainings, weaving together Hakomi, Somatic Experiencing, IFS, Chinese Medicine, and more. You can connect with Trevor and Nūma via these links: https://www.numabreathwork.com/ https://www.wyllthawk.com/ And instagram - https://www.instagram.com/numabreathwork/ As always, you can connect with my on my IG and website: Insta - andrew.carruthers Website - outofstep.life [0:09] If you don't choose your belief systems, they choose you [4:16] Check-in: one word each — mental, emotional, spiritual, physical [5:44] Where do our belief systems actually come from? [8:53] Trevor's birth story and a belief formed in five days [14:32] Can a baby really absorb all of that? Trevor responds [20:58] Conscious vs. unconscious belief formation [25:55] The familiar voice and where it learned to talk like that [29:44] The Nūma Breathwork story + challenging my own bias [32:30] When Trevor had to tease apart the absolute and the relative [37:26] Walking a path to its end — completion vs. disillusionment [43:01] The cost of changing has to outweigh the cost of staying [48:16] The takeover technique in Hakomi + why negative beliefs can feel like relief [54:00] "How dare you tell me I'm loved" — when nurturing statements land wrong [57:55] How do we slow down when everything is moving this fast? [1:07:00] It doesn't have to go away — can you just be with it? [1:14:47] Closing thoughts + why this work matters for those who serve others

    1h 18m
  2. EP12 What if We Stopped Fighting Ourselves w/ Virginia Terrill

    Jun 9

    EP12 What if We Stopped Fighting Ourselves w/ Virginia Terrill

    What is enough? I mean for real... in a world of "always get better," what is ENOUGH? If that question makes you squirm a little, you're in good company, because I'm right there with you. This week my friend Virginia makes the case that we already have the compass within us... the one we've been outsourcing to self-proclaimed gurus and the loudest voices in our social feed. I open with a story about an old friend named Leila Lee and a single question scrawled on a slip of paper that was handed to her at a party: "What is enough?" It has stuck with me for years and it frames so much of this episode. My friend Virginia Terrill, founder of Ethically Inclined Wellness, brings such a refreshingly down-to-earth voice to a space that usually runs on hustle and an undercurrent of "you're not doing enough." After roughly twenty years in active addiction, then recovery, early motherhood, and divorce all at once, she started asking what she actually needed... and pausing to check in with herself before taking on anyone else's playbook. We dig into the unconscious comparison of the endless scroll, the "done-for-you" speed that leaves us feeling behind, and that gut-punch belief that we're the problem. Virginia reframes wellness as what actually fits, not right or wrong... the same routine lands differently on two different people. I share my own history of handing my sovereignty over to mentors I looked up to and how they ended up being "shadow" mentors. Finally, we land on consistency: it looks different on different days, and adapting when life gets loud isn't quitting on yourself. Here's who you're hanging out with this week. Virginia is the founder of Ethically Inclined Wellness and the creator of what she calls self-collaboration... a way into wellness that actually holds up in real life! Through storytelling, mentorship, and nervous-system-informed practices, she helps us learn to work with ourselves instead of against ourselves. She's trained in wellness coaching and behavior change, and she's just beginning her Master of Social Work. Go say hello: https://ethicallyinclinedwellness.com/ https://www.instagram.com/ethically.inclined.wellness Timestamps00:00 — What is enough? The question that frames the episode 03:05 — Meet Virginia + a four-part check-in 04:50 — What called her in: recovery, motherhood, divorce 09:46 — Sovereignty at an all-time low and the influencer machine 12:06 — Take what you need, leave the rest 16:20 — Ethically Inclined Wellness and "self-collaboration" 24:40 — "If you feel like you're the problem..." 30:12 — Skateboard magazines vs. the endless scroll 36:51 — The pendulum: grind culture vs. doing nothing 44:18 — My breathwork story + fit over right/wrong 51:52 — Failure is information + consistency looks different on different days 1:02:20 — The closing question: a message to young Virginia

    1h 5m
  3. EP11 If You Could Go Back, Would You?

    May 12

    EP11 If You Could Go Back, Would You?

    I've been asking my guests at the end of every episode... "If you could speak to your younger self, what would you say?" And then a few days ago, my wife asked me the same thing. And honestly... it went way deeper than I expected. We ended up in this whole sci-fi rabbit hole. Like, Matrix and Total Recall style LOL. What if you could literally reach in and carve out a belief system? Or upload a lifetime of wisdom in a single moment? No butterfly effect, no consequences... just, what would you actually do with that? For me it went straight to my early 20s. Getting into the hair industry, becoming a bit of the cool kid... and feeding off it like crazy because underneath all of that I just didn't feel valuable without other people's approval. And I can look back now and see how much that shaped things. How much suffering came from it. How much I bent myself into shapes trying to get that acceptance. So yeah. This episode goes there. Where I'd go if I could reach back... and what I'd pull outWhat external validation actually cost me, and how I can still trace itThe difference between shame and guilt when you're looking back honestlyHolding "it was all for a reason" and "I wish it went differently" at the same timeWhy the wisdom isn't in the wishing... and where it actually livesThe question I'm leaving with youTwo seats left in the Wayfaring Method! Eight months of coach certification that actually gets into your body, not just your head. We launch in six days. outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod or find me on Instagram @andrew.carruthers 00:00 -- Reflecting on the Past: A Philosophical Inquiry 01:58 -- The Impact of Experiences on Personal Growth 05:32 -- The Quest for Self-Worth and External Validation 08:42 -- The Complexity of Change: Should We Alter Our Past? 09:37 -- Embracing Duality: Holding Multiple Truths 12:56 -- Exploring Possibilities: The Power of Reflection

    14 min
  4. EP10 The Facilitators Journey from Control to Surrender w/ Carolyn Anne Budgell

    May 7

    EP10 The Facilitators Journey from Control to Surrender w/ Carolyn Anne Budgell

    There's a version of facilitation and serving others that kinda looks like confidence but really it's control. We walk in with the perfect lesson plan, detailed agenda, and a pocket full of knowledge. But inside we are just praying that it all doesn't come undone. Whether you're a coach, a yoga teacher, a breathwork facilitator, or anyone who shows up in service of others... most of us started there. And the shift away from it is rarely sudden. It's slow, earned, and often uncomfortable. Carolyn Ann Budgell has been guiding people through meditation, mindfulness, and breathwork for over 15 years. What started as a ski season yoga discovery in Whistler became a body of work rooted in nervous system support, conscious breathing, and the belief that we can't force transformation... we can only create the conditions for it. In my conversation with Carolyn, we trace our own journey from needing to have it all figured out to a more spacious, intuitive, and grounded approach. We play with the concepts of surrender, the difference between physical body and somatic body, mentorship (healthy and unhealthy), and the sneaky need for validation that shapes most of us. Settle in... this episode feels like a chat at a coffee shop, but it's loaded with gold. If something in this episode stirred something in you... that's worth paying attention to. The Wayfaring Method is an 8-month coach certification for people who want to do this work from the inside out. Embodiment, breathwork, nervous system, coaching fundamentals, and the inner work that makes all of it land. 3 seats left. We start May 20th. Find out more at outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod or come find me on Instagram @andrew.carruthers and ask me anything. Connect with Carolyn: Website - https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/ Free meditations - https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/freemeditations Upcoming events & retreats - https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/links 00:00 - The bug that started it all 04:44 - Meet Carolyn Ann Budgell 07:18 - Early days in the fire 11:00 - The shift from teacher to facilitator 16:05 - Rebellion as a path 21:42 - What does mentorship actually mean? 26:25 - The triangle pointing toward the teacher 31:41 - Holding steady when someone wants answers 40:20 - Nervous system regulation and the planning trap 49:46 - Getting into your body... which body? 55:41 - Taking yoga off the mat 1:02:01 - Showing up with no plan 1:05:46 - Surrender vs. letting go 1 :09:22 - What would you tell your younger self? 1:13:11 - Closing

    1h 15m
  5. EP9 Is Our Story Our Power or Our Kryptonite w/ Evan Bourcier

    Apr 22

    EP9 Is Our Story Our Power or Our Kryptonite w/ Evan Bourcier

    What if the story someone tells you is actually the wall keeping you out? Evan Bourcier has spent 15 years pulling real stories out of real people... athletes, musicians, billionaires, and even dudes bleeding out in Dunkin' Donuts. He has learned to sniff out the difference between the story someone tells and the story that's actually driving their life. In this conversation, we get into all of it: when to follow the story, when to press, when to shut up and let the silence do the heavy lifting... and why some coaching methodologies might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater by cutting "story" off at the knees. About Evan: Evan Bourcier is Chief Creative Steward at Challenger Media House, where he tells real stories for individuals and companies who aren't interested in the sanitized version. His Substack, The Challenger Grimoire, is worth your time... go check it out: https://ebourcier.substack.com/ Find him on Instagram at @challengermediahouse. In this episode: Why a story that loops might not be the problem... it might be the protectionThe two questions that open any door: "What makes you say that?" and "Tell me more about that"How 27,000 hours behind a salon chair built better coaching instincts than most certification programsWhy letting someone be heard all the way through might be the most therapeutic thing you ever doThe moment Evan gave a CrossFit athlete permission to tell him to f**k off... and why that made the whole thing work The Wayfaring Method Coach Certification opens in May. If you're someone who supports other humans and you're ready to go deeper than techniques and frameworks... to actually trust your intuitive wisdom in the room... this is the training for you. Head to outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod or DM me on Instagram at @andrew.carruthers. 00:00 Introduction & what we're getting into today 03:37 Check-in: one word for mental, emotional, physical, spiritual 05:10 What ignited Evan's passion for story 11:13 The pattern behind people's calling 11:39 Why story wasn't welcome in the church 15:28 What is the actual power of story? 23:24 The difference between helpful and unhelpful story 34:38 When surface story is a wall of protection 37:46 The coaching session that broke someone's trust 41:50 Consent, intuition, and knowing when to lean in 46:18 Trusting intuitive wisdom over technique 49:35 The Alfred North Whitehead quote... and what it means 54:13 Authenticity vs. AI... what can't be replicated 01:02:18 Watching the mentor instead of being watched 01:05:18 Symbols, Daoism, and the limits of language 01:08:26 Hakomi, experiments, and putting a finger on it 01:13:06 Foundations as a safety net for intuition 01:18:25 Closing reflections and what's next with Evan Drop a comment or question for us! And subscribe if you want to support the podcast :-)

    1h 22m

  6. Apr 16

    EP8 F**k the Boxes w/ Misty Jayne Harmon

    What if the identity we've built around our work is actually the thing holding us back? Not because it's wrong, but because we've let it become a box with walls so high we can't even see over them anymore? That's what this conversation is really about. My guest Misty Jayne Harmon has been a hairdresser for over 23 years, a money coach, a podcaster, and honestly a lot of other things that don't fit neatly into a bio. We get into the very real mental blocks that come up when you start to outgrow the identity you've created, why the "niche down" advice from the marketing world can become its own kind of trap, and what it actually feels like when you finally give yourself permission to just... be more than one thing. Fair warning, this one got personal. In a really good way. Links:Misty on IG: @_mistyjayne_ Website: www.mistyjayne.com 2027 Costa Rica Retreat Waitlist: https://mistyjayne.mykajabi.com/costa-rica-2027-waitlist Andrew's Wayfaring Method Coach Certification (Starts May 2026): www.outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod Timestamps[0:00] The identity trap — and who this episode is for [2:19] Introducing Misty Jane Harmon [3:48] Check-in: one word each — mental, emotional, spiritual, physical [5:10] When COVID took away the hairdresser identity — and what that revealed [8:10] The validation machine: what hairdressers get that coaches don't [11:29] The slow build — why stepping into coaching is harder than it looks [14:14] Starting from zero: lessons from Misty's first coaching client [19:16] Figuring out your lane — and why it takes longer than you think [21:32] How Misty Jane the money coach was born (hint: Toastmasters) [26:48] When the box starts to feel too small [30:19] What do I put in my Instagram bio? (It's a real block, not a stupid one) [31:52] Identity, marketing, and the high school cafeteria energy of social media [36:49] The session that changed everything — keep hairdresser or drop it? [40:44] Does the container guide you or confine you? [42:30] The playground fence study — why boundaries create freedom [46:11] Is comfort zone always the enemy? Maybe not. [49:20] Back-sided commitments — the invisible limits we set on ourselves [53:46] What pure coaching actually looks like vs. consulting [57:35] Evolving publicly — and why it gives others permission to do the same [59:27] What even is failure? And does it matter? [1:04:50] Advice to her younger self: don't discount the mistakes Out of Step is hosted by Andrew Carruthers — outofstep.life

    1h 8m

  7. Apr 8

    EP7 Gurus and Fellow Wayfarers w/ Frank Inzan Owen

    What if the most powerful thing a teacher can do is refuse to be your guru? That's the question at the heart of this conversation — and honestly, it's one I had to sit with myself before we even hit record. My guest is Frank Inzan Owen who has become a co-Wayfarer and teacher on my journey. I found him through a secondhand book my wife picked up from a friend's moving pile. Ten pages in, I knew I had to find whoever wrote it. That search eventually led me here... to one of the most important convos I've had about walking our own path. We get into what it really means to be a wayfarer, the difference between a teacher and a guru, and why I recently had to admit I was looking for someone to just tell me the right way forward. LOL. Spoiler: that's not how this works. About Frank Inzan OwenFrank is a wayfarer of a nature-centric contemplative path rooted in East Asian traditions. He's a poet, hill walker, organic gardener, and facilitator of a Jungian-informed practice he calls Soulfaring. He curates a Substack called The Luminous Procession that I can't recommend enough! 🌐 https://soulfaring.org/ 🌐 https://www.theluminousprocession.com/ Want more info on The Wayfaring Method coach training and certification? 🌐 https://outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod Timestamps[0:01] Welcome to Season 2 + Wayfaring Method cohort is open [1:06] How I found Frank — the secondhand book story [4:39] Check-in: one word each — mental, emotional, spiritual, physical [6:26] What is a Wayfarer? The word across traditions [9:08] The shift from way seeker to wayfarer — and what Soul Faring is [13:18] The tension between the wayfarer and the guru model [14:23] I asked Frank to be my mentor. His response changed everything. [16:46] Frank's history with teachers — and the clear mirror [20:16] The triangle: where is the point aimed? [24:57] "Not passed down — passed over, like a cup of tea" [29:05] When a teacher told me my eclectic spirituality meant I was "lost" [31:40] "But what if I do it wrong?" + You're never not on the path. [35:20] The models for direct experience are the mentor [41:24] "It sounds like that faucet is running dry" — the oasis image [46:13] Practice as antidote + the world of red dust [51:54] If you're only doing yoga in the studio, you're not doing yoga [53:30] The Aikido subway story + where to start as a wayfarer Referenced in this episode:📘 The Mist-Filled Path — Frank MacEowen 📚 Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind — Shunryu Suzuki 📚 Future Shock / The Third Wave / Power Shift — Alvin Toffler 📚 Aikido and the New Warrior — "A Kind Word Turneth Away Wrath" 🌬️ Numa Breathwork Out of Step is hosted by Andrew Carruthers — outofstep.life

    1h 2m

  8. Mar 26

    EP6 No Shortcuts, Just the Way: Reflections from The Way Beneath the Work

    There’s no clean path to finding our place in this work… and definitely no five-step formula. In this solo reflection, I wrap up The Way Beneath the Work mini-series by sharing what’s been most nourishing, challenging, and real for me after conversations with Ari, Sagewolf, Sarai, and Kathleen. From spirituality and community to the necessity of hard experiences and the willingness to follow inner callings, this episode pulls together the deeper threads that have been running beneath it all. If you’re someone who supports other humans—and you’re trying to find your own authentic way of doing that—this is a reminder that the path isn’t something you follow… it’s something you walk. We talk about: Why there are no shortcuts to real inner workThe role of spirituality (without dogma) in guiding othersThe difference between surface-level and deep, accountable communityWhy the hard stuff isn’t optional if you want depthFollowing inner callings (even when it doesn’t feel like courage)Exploring your edges and expanding your “fence”What’s next for the podcast + an invitation into the Wayfaring MethodThis is the end of the mini-series… and the beginning of what’s next. The next cohort of the Wayfaring Method is now open! www.outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod for more info Chapter Markers00:00 Closing the mini-series + why this journey matters 02:00 Wayfaring Method announcement + inner work as foundation 03:20 The biggest theme: there are no shortcuts 04:30 Ari + the role of spirituality (without dogma) 08:30 Sagewolf + deeper, more accountable community 12:00 Sarai + why the hard experiences are non-negotiable 15:00 Depth vs. “high vibe” living (and the illusion of ease) 17:30 Holding multiple facets of self (Bill Plotkin model) 19:30 Kathleen + following inner callings without waiting for courage 22:00 Living in transition + learning to move with change 23:30 Exploring edges + the playground/fence metaphor 26:30 Expanding your “fence” through other perspectives 27:00 What success actually felt like from this series 28:30 What’s next: Season 2 + continuing to push edges

    29 min
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About

A podcast for those who live in the ecosystem of supporting others—coaches, guides, facilitators, mentors, and more—who sense there’s more on the edges of these roles than the widely accepted norms. Through stories, reflections, and honest conversations, we offer a sense of belonging, a touch of disruption, and an invitation to walk your own way beneath “the work.” Not everything will resonate, and some of this may challenge what you currently believe (that's intentional). Listen with curiosity and an open heart—take what speaks to you, leave what doesn’t.

Information

  • Creator
    Andrew Carruthers
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    13
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Andrew Carruthers