Lifting the Lid on Engagement

Michelle Weston
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Lifting the Lid is a community engagement podcast co-hosted by Michelle Weston of Dome Engagement and Max Hardy of Max Hardy Consulting. With over 50 years of combined experience in stakeholder engagement, deliberative democracy, and facilitation across Australia, Michelle and Max lift the lid on all things community engagement, exploring the real-world challenges, emerging trends, and practical wisdom that practitioners need to navigate this evolving field. Each episode features candid conversations with leading thinkers and practitioners, digging into the topics that matter most.

Episodes

  1. Sep 3

    Episode 5 - Lifting the lid on Rethinking Social Licence: Trust, Fear & Data Centres with Dr Nick Fleming

    Rethinking Social Licence with Dr Nick Fleming Why do technically sound projects still face fierce community opposition? And why do organisations keep making the same mistakes? In this episode of Lifting the Lid, Michelle Weston and Max Hardy are joined by Dr Nick Fleming for a conversation about social licence, community opposition and how we approach complex and contentious projects. From data centres and coal seam gas to organisational fear, trust and leadership, Nick challenges us to look beyond better engagement and ask what the wider system is telling us. We explore why more information isn't always the answer, how fear can shape the behaviour of both communities and organisations, and what happens when we stop trying to “manage” stakeholders and start asking different questions. Nick also shares a great story from the coal seam gas industry, where changing just one question completely shifted the conversation with farmers and uncovered what really mattered to them. And we look at what it means to move upstream, thinking earlier about value, legacy and the conditions for success before plans become locked in. 00:00 Welcome to Lifting the Lid00:24 Meet Dr Nick Fleming03:10 Rethinking social licence07:06 What does good social licence look like?10:43 Why technically sound projects still face opposition13:54 When more information isn't the answer16:35 Fear inside organisations and communities18:20 The problem with “stakeholder management”23:24 Why organisations keep making the same mistakes25:36 The farmers story: changing the question31:25 Data centres and the social licence challenge35:23 What boards and senior leaders need to do differently38:38 Moving upstream: thinking earlier about value and legacy40:49 Pause and ask better questions43:06 A challenge for engagement practitioners46:40 Wrap up Dr Nick Fleming is the founder of Innergise. Trained as an engineer, his work spans complex problem solving, systems thinking, strategy and leadership. He is the author of Smashing the State of Dumb-Stuck and co-author, with Susanne Cooper, of Insight Trading. Connect with Dr Nick Fleming on LinkedInhttps://au.linkedin.com/in/nsfleming Innergisehttps://innergise.com.au/ Smashing the State of Dumb-Stuckhttps://innergise.com.au/smashing-the-state-of-dumb-stuck/ Insight Tradinghttps://innergise.com.au/insight-trading/ Lifting the Lid is a podcast about uncovering all things community engagement. Hosted by Michelle Weston and Max Hardy, we get into what works, what doesn't, the messy, the inspiring, and the lessons learned along the way. In this episodeAbout Dr Nick FlemingResources & linksAbout Lifting the Lid

    Episode 5 - Lifting the lid on Rethinking Social Licence: Trust, Fear & Data Centres with Dr Nick Fleming

  2. Jun 10

    Episode 4 - Lifting the lid on the masks we wear - satire, burnout and what lies beneath with Isabella GiaVulva

    Episode 4 | Show Notes In this episode Michelle and Max are joined by Isabella GiaVulva, self-described community engagement drag queen, participation consultant extraordinaire, and the performer behind the hit conference show Off Leash. Through comedy, music and satire, Isabella holds a mirror up to the engagement sector: its jargon, its rituals, its contradictions and its very real human cost. Her signature show follows a fictional dog park consultation at Grayvale City Council, and if you've ever facilitated a community process, you'll recognise every single moment. Timestamps • 00:05 Welcome and acknowledgement of country• 00:49 Introduction of Isabella GiaVulva• 02:58 How Isabella came to exist / origin story• 07:01 Why satire? What does it let you say that traditional engagement can't?• 09:47 About Off Leash, the dog park consultation show• 12:21 What engagement professionals have said after seeing the show• 13:31 The emotional toll: aggressive engagement, burnout and mental health• 17:12 Paul's Park song (begins)• 22:23 Paul's Park song (plays in full)• 26:39 Jack (the person behind Isabella) joins the conversation / the mask metaphor• 32:00 It's not just practitioners who cry, clients and community too• 33:17 The power of simple questions and the follow-up "why?"• 35:03 What the sector gets wrong: KPIs, counting the wrong things• 36:22 Storytelling vs data: reports nobody reads• 38:41 Seeing yourself reflected in Isabella, the good days and the bad• 40:30 Listening well vs feeding it back well• 44:06 What's next: the redundancy show and improv classes for practitioners• 49:21 How to find Isabella / wrap-up• 49:46 Outro What we cover in this episode: • How Isabella came to exist, from Rocky Horror at age 10 to the "death slot" at an IAP2 Canada conference in Banff• Why satire is such a powerful tool for unpacking the sector's messiest truths, the things you can't say in a case study• The Off Leash show: what it is, how it was built on 40+ hours of interviews with practitioners, and why a fictional dog park became the perfect vehicle• The emotional and mental health toll of engagement work, being yelled at, going home and crying, and why "being a good listener doesn't mean you're great at being yelled at"• The mask practitioners put on, and what happens when it gets chipped away• What the sector gets wrong: formulaic questions, decision-makers who've already made up their minds, and reports nobody reads past the executive summary• The power of the simple follow-up question: why?• What's next for Isabella: an online show about redundancy, and improv classes for engagement practitioners The Paul's Park song, a deeply moving letter from a community member about the park where his late husband first kissed him. Bring tissues. Links: • Follow Isabella on LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabellagiavulva/ • Follow Isabella on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/isabella_giavulva?• Email Michelle: michelle@domeengagement.com.au• Email Max: max@maxhardy.com.au• Navigating Tricky Interactions training - see show notes for contact details

    Episode 4 - Lifting the lid on the masks we wear - satire, burnout and what lies beneath with Isabella GiaVulva

  3. Apr 7

    Episode 3 - Lifting the Lid on Magical Moments, Global Impact and Legacy with Becky Hirst

    Lifting the Lid on Magical Moments, Global Impact and Legacy - with Becky Hirst In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, Max Hardy and Michelle Weston sit down with Becky Hirst - founder of HeyEngage, author, podcaster, keynote speaker and one of the most recognised voices in community engagement globally - to explore the magical moments that keep practitioners going, what it takes to build a global impact, and the legacy one of our sector's most passionate advocates is determined to leave behind. From her early days as a community involvement officer in Gloucester in 1999, through to a breast cancer diagnosis that sharpened her focus and urgency, Becky shares the insights, frustrations and moments of magic that have shaped nearly three decades of extraordinary practice. Key Topics The journey into community engagement - and what keeps practitioners goingWhy engagement skills are hard skills, not soft onesThe "flip" - turning sceptics into advocatesThe slogans problem and the razzle dazzle trappings of the sectorPodcasting as a tool for learning, connection and global reachNavigating a breast cancer diagnosis while running a global practiceThe future of community engagement - deconstructed, human and back to basicsGetting engagement to the board table and into the C-suiteLegacy, scale and reaching every corner of the worldChapters 00:00 Introduction 03:37 Becky's journey into community engagement 06:35 Moments of magic — what keeps practitioners going 11:26 Frustrations in the sector 12:56 The podcasting journey — from Thought Bubbles to For the Love of Community Engagement 19:00 Personal challenges and community engagement 21:00 The future of community engagement — 2040 and beyond 24:33 Advice for new practitioners 28:18 Looking ahead: strategic and executive-level engagement 31:19 Getting engagement to the board table 33:20 Profound questions in community engagement 34:17 The slogans problem 35:13 The changing nature of citizens and institutions 36:23 Going where the people are 37:47 Community engagement and democracy 39:29 The emotional cost on practitioners 40:47 Legacy and scale 42:27 A global perspective from an Australian home base Find Becky Hirst at any of the links below: Website: heyengage.worldFor the Love of Community Engagement podcast on Spotify | Apple PodcastsBreast cancer episode (Season 5, Ep 4): Listen hereFor the Love of Community Engagement — the book: Amazon AU | BooktopiaCommunity Engagement Bootcamp: heyengage.world/bootcampYouTube (Thought Bubbles): beckyhirstconsulting.com.au/contactGlobal Community Engagement Day (28 January): nationaltoday.comLinkedIn: Becky Hirst.Want us to lift the lid on a topic - or deliver a Navigating Tricky Interactions training in your organisation? You can contact us at: Max Hardy - max@maxhardy.com.au Michelle Weston - michelle@domeengagement.com.au Lifting the Lid is recorded on Wurundjeri Country. We respectfully acknowledge the Wurundjeri people as the Traditional Custodians of this land.

    Episode 3 - Lifting the Lid on Magical Moments, Global Impact and Legacy with Becky Hirst

  4. Mar 4

    Episode 2 - Lifting the lid on a leap of faith with Max Hardy and Michelle Weston

    In this engaging conversation, Max Hardy and Michelle Weston explore the complexities of community engagement, emphasising the importance of a leap of faith, agility, and shared responsibility in navigating unpredictable processes. They share real-world stories, practical tips, and insights to help practitioners build trust, resilience, and meaningful connections in their work. Key Topics The concept of leap of faith in community work Managing unpredictability and surprises in engagement processes Building trust and respect through valuing contributions The importance of shared responsibility and humility Real world stories of engagement successes and setbacks Chapters 04:24 - Navigating Uncertainty in Engagement Processes 09:43 - The Impact of External Factors on Engagement 13:47 - Shifting Mindsets: From Risk to Opportunity 15:54 - Understanding Control in Engagement Processes 21:14 - The Power of Reflection in Engagement 23:16 - Top Tips for Effective Community Engagement 24:52 - Ending notes The fantastic Liz Mackevicius was mentioned in the conversation. Click here if you would like to read her blogs or subscribe to her newsletter. Want us to ‘lift the lid’ on a topic - or deliver a ‘navigating tricky interactions' training in your organisation? You can contact us at: ⁠Max Hardy⁠  ⁠max@maxhardy.com.au⁠ or ⁠Michelle Weston⁠ ⁠michelle@domeengagement.com.au

    Episode 2 - Lifting the lid on a leap of faith with Max Hardy and Michelle Weston

  5. Feb 12

    Episode 1 - Lifting the Lid on Transitions with Liz Weaver

    In this first ‘Lifting the Lid’ podcast episode hosted by Michelle Weston and Max Hardy – Liz Weaver discusses her extensive experience with transitions in both personal and professional contexts, particularly through her work with the Tamarack Institute. The discussion explores Liz's fantastic new resource The Human Side of Workplace Transitions including the emotional complexities of transitions, the importance of agency and the need for effective communication and community engagement during times of change. Liz emphasises the significance ofending well and building trust among allies to navigate transitions successfully. The conversation also touches on the impact of environmental changes on communities and the necessity of self-care during these processes. Links: Liz Weaver’s The Human Side of Workplace Transitions Liz Weaver's Collaboration: Beginnings and Endings The Tamarack Institute Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Lifting Lid Podcast and Guest LizWeaver 02:20 The Tamarack Institute and Its Impact on Communities 04:56 Understanding Transitions: Personal and Professional  11:54 Navigating Pre-Transition Signals and Emotions 17:07 Agency in Transition: Initiating vs. Responding 20:41 Timing and Phases of Transition 24:23 Transitions in Community Engagement 27:59 Ending Well: Reflections on Transitions 30:35 Navigating Endings and Transitions 32:29 Understanding Solastalgia and Environmental Change 36:48 Emotional Connections to Place and Community 38:31 Creating Safe Spaces for Dialogue 42:30 The Power of Vulnerability in Conversations 46:30 Reflections on Career and Transitions 48:33 Advice for Navigating Transitions   Want us to ‘lift the lid’ on a topic - or deliver a ‘navigating tricky interactions' training in your organisation? You can contact us at: Max Hardy  max@maxhardy.com.au or Michelle Weston michelle@domeengagement.com.au

    Episode 1 - Lifting the Lid on Transitions with Liz Weaver
  • 5 Episodes

About

Lifting the Lid is a community engagement podcast co-hosted by Michelle Weston of Dome Engagement and Max Hardy of Max Hardy Consulting. With over 50 years of combined experience in stakeholder engagement, deliberative democracy, and facilitation across Australia, Michelle and Max lift the lid on all things community engagement, exploring the real-world challenges, emerging trends, and practical wisdom that practitioners need to navigate this evolving field. Each episode features candid conversations with leading thinkers and practitioners, digging into the topics that matter most.

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