What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem

Boxlight Creative Studio
  • 0.0 (0)
  • Management
  • Updated Weekly

In a crazy world, how do we get better leaders?  This is the boardroom, unplugged. — Whether starting out, or a seasoned leader, you face a world we’ve never seen before - the future of work, politics, technology and society is harder to predict than ever. So how do we survive the uncertainty and thrive in complexity? The successful leaders of the future will need a different set of skills and come from a broader range of backgrounds. This is for you.  We’re by leaders, for leaders - human stories, messy realities, tips and tricks to use today… not corporate talking points or retrospective perfection. How it really felt, the stuff we don’t see, the advice and events that shaped you and the hard-won wisdom you’d pass on to future leaders.  — What We Don’t Know is a collaboration between: Matt Brittin CBE, Hayaatun Sillem CBE & Boxlight Creative Studio - the award winning production powerhouse behind UK’s biggest business shows.

  1. 2d ago

    What David Miliband & The Nudge Unit Taught Me About Leadership | Ravi Gurumurthy, Nesta CEO

    Ravi Gurumurthy on Leading Nesta: Missions, Policy, Experimentation, and Intrinsic Motivation Welcome to What We Don't Know. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Today, Hayaatun is joined by Jimmy McLoughlin OBE, host of ‪@jimmysjobs‬, to chat with Ravi Gurumurthy, CEO of Nesta, about leading mission-driven innovation in an uncertain world. Ravi explains Nesta’s three “moonshot” missions - halving obesity, achieving net zero homes, and closing the school-readiness gap for children on free school meals, and shaping policy from practical learning. Ravi also reflects on his background in Burnley, early rebellious leadership, experiences of racism, and a rapid rise in the civil service, including work on Every Child Matters, the Children Act 2004, and the Climate Change Act. We also cover policymaking’s short-termism, better use of data and trials, how AI and synthetic data could help, learning from failure through “crash testing,” the importance of dosage and numbers, and why leaders should focus on intrinsic motivation over incentives. Chapters: 00:00 Intro 01:52 Meet Ravi and Nesta 06:46 CEO Role and Missions 09:17 Family Roots and Oxford 12:21 Early Leadership and Identity 14:18 Fast Track in Government 16:17 Mentors and Learning Leadership 18:33 Policy Horizons and Data 26:29 AI and Synthetic Data 29:06 Experimentation and Failure 30:08 Donor Embraces Findings 30:39 Blunkett Sack Letter 32:10 Risk Over Safety 33:40 Ungovernable Leadership 34:42 Rituals For Failure 35:54 Crash Testing Ideas 37:01 CEO As Thought Leader 40:03 Measuring Social Impact 41:49 MacKay Numbers Not Adjectives 43:56 Preparing For Policy 46:30 Motivation Beyond Incentives 47:39 Insecurity And Identity 49:03 Future Career Paths 51:08 Quick Fire Round 53:59 Dogs And Social Capital 54:55 Change Is Harder Than Thought 55:54 Hosts Reflect And Wrap Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1 hr

  2. Jun 10

    Why The Best Leaders Don't Need To Prove Themselves | Hetti Barkworth-Nanton

    Hetti Barkworth-Nanton on Humility, Purpose & Leading Through Trauma | What We Don’t Know (Eden Project) Recorded in the Eden Project Rainforest Dome at the Anthropy conference, Hayaatun speaks with Hetti Barkworth-Nanton, CEO of Ploughshare and chair of Refuge, about leading change across defense innovation and domestic abuse services. Hetti explains how Ploughshare spins Ministry of Defence innovations into civil applications, sharing examples from water-protective coatings used in Samsung phones to laser-detection tech adapted from battlefield needs to air ambulances and sport. She traces formative influences - rural upbringing, her father’s death, early lessons on commitment, and being “spark spotted” into senior roles at British Airways, including being the “Project God.” Hetti describes the murder of her friend Jo Simpson, resulting trauma therapy, later breast cancer, and how these experiences drove her campaigning, founding the Joanna Simpson Foundation, and her leadership at Refuge amid controversy and difficult board decisions. Key lessons: systems thinking, curiosity, resilience, boundaries, and humility. Chapters 00:00 Intro 00:45 Welcome To Eden Project 02:35 Two Leadership Roles 04:33 Rural Roots And Loss 08:01 Finding Self Belief 09:56 Strawberry Field Commitment 11:10 BA Breakthrough Roles 16:17 Project God And Servant Leadership 22:29 Why Domestic Abuse Matters 27:19 Trauma Therapy And Authenticity 29:49 Trauma and Cancer Reset 33:24 Purpose Over Corporate Life 35:06 Finding Ploughshare Mission 37:55 Defense Tech Impact Shift 40:56 UK Innovation System Fixes 43:11 Sentinel Photonics Story 45:59 Leading Two Careers Openly 48:16 Refuge Board Tough Calls 51:14 Resilience and Burnout Signs 53:55 Quickfire Leadership Lessons 57:16 Host Wrap and Takeaways Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Have thoughts or questions? Email us at whatwedontknow@boxlight.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 1m

  3. Jun 4

    Andy Haldane: The Jobs Crisis & How to Rebuild UK Skills | What We Don't Know

    Andy Haldane: Crisis, Opportunity & Rebuilding UK Skills | What We Don’t Know Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. This is the show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ----------- In this episode, Matt Brittin and Hayaatun Sillem sit down with Andy Haldane to discuss his leadership roles as Chancellor of the University of Sheffield and President of the British Chambers of Commerce, motivated by working at the intersection of public sector, business, civil society and academia. Andy describes how repeated shocks from the global financial crisis through Brexit, COVID, the cost-of-living shock and geopolitical uncertainty, that have “scarred” institutions and fueled caution that weakens growth, echoing Keynes’s paradox of thrift. Reflecting on decades at the Bank of England, Haldane frames crises as moments when the Overton window opens for lasting reform, shaped by early experience of the 1992 ERM exit and teenage exposure to 1980s recession. He argues robust solutions to complex problems are often simple, emphasizes active listening as a core leadership skill, and highlights influences from small-business owners. He calls the UK’s central challenge a major reimagining of schools and skills to tackle economic inactivity, guarantee pathways to apprenticeships or degrees, and share leadership across sectors. 00:00 Meet Andy Haldane 00:29 Cross Sector Leadership 02:25 Scarred By Crises 04:55 Crisis As Opportunity 08:44 Early Leadership Spark 12:28 Climbing Big Mountains 14:55 Introvert Strengths 20:09 Metaphors And Listening 27:52 Governors And Advice 31:41 Carney and Brexit 34:03 Career Growth Beyond Banking 35:57 Outrider Thinking and Cross Discipline 38:20 Pro Bono Economics and Leaving 39:50 Sustainable Work and Creativity 44:14 Skills Gap and Opportunity 47:12 Reimagining Schools and Training 50:49 Leadership as Team Sport 52:41 Speed Round and Wrap Up Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 8m

  4. May 30

    What Negotiating With Putin & Gaddafi Taught Me About Leadership | Lord John Browne

    Lord John Browne on Engineering Thinking, Leading BP, Climate Risk, Negotiating Putin & Coming Out in Business | What We Don’t Know Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem.  Matt Brittin is the former President at Google EMEA. After 18 years at one of the world's biggest companies, he stepped down, took a gap year, and recently became the Director General of the BBC. Dr. Hayaatun Sillem spent a few years leading the Royal Academy of Engineering and was awarded the Queen Elizabeth Prize for Engineering.  This is the show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world.  Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ In this episode of What We Don’t Know, Hayaatun and Matt sit down with Lord John Browne. He discusses how he describes himself as a businessman, author, and above all an engineer, explaining how engineering training shaped his systematic approach from writing to boardrooms and science.  He reflects on childhood habits of dismantling clocks, the importance of proper tools, and his early life at King’s School Ely and Cambridge, influenced by a soldier father and a Holocaust-survivor mother who stressed self-sufficiency and looking forward.  Browne recounts joining BP in 1966, learning about unions and refinery work, and formative engineering experience on Alaska’s North Slope, including early computer optimization work. He describes leadership lessons from Stanford Business School—purpose, inclusion, listening, and negotiation—and his path to becoming BP CEO in 1994, reorganizing BP around customer-oriented business units, and addressing climate risk through internal analysis, methane reduction, carbon pricing, and renewables. He shares negotiation insights from dealings with leaders including Putin, Gaddafi, and others, then explains writing The Glass Closet after being outed in 2007 and arguing for workplace environments where people can be themselves, with safety and pragmatism.  00:00 Intro 01:38 Taking Things Apart 02:50 Joining BP in 1966 03:15 School and Rowing Days 05:06 Parents and Upbringing 07:41 Lessons From His Mother 09:22 Early BP Apprenticeship 11:41 Alaska and First Big Break 15:10 Stanford and Learning Leadership 19:50 Becoming BP CEO 24:18 Rebuilding BP and Climate Wakeup 28:51 Oil And Climate Reality 29:44 Speaking Up On Climate 31:10 Negotiating With Putin 35:39 Hard Lessons In Dealmaking 37:19 Writing The Glass Closet 39:09 Being Outed As CEO 44:05 Inclusion With Pragmatism 45:48 Resilience And Reinvention 50:25 Optimism And Future Tech 52:44 Speed Round And Farewell Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 7m

  5. May 20

    Why The Best Leaders Make Wrong Decisions | What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem

    Leading Through Uncertainty: Clarity, Vulnerability & Decision-Making in a Chaotic World | What We Don’t Know Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ In this episode of What We Don’t Know, Hayaatun and Matt explore how leadership must evolve to meet chronic uncertainty, shifting from alpha certainty to humility, adaptability, and earned trust. They discuss why clarity of purpose matters more than false certainty, how strategy can provide agency while leaving room for flexibility, and why leaders need faster shared learning cycles and better “intel” from across their networks. Hayaatun shares how the pandemic forced her to blend personal and professional life, show vulnerability, and finally ask for help when she felt close to unraveling, reframing self-monitoring as being “safe to drive the bus.” Matt Brittin reflects on learning decisiveness in ambiguous choices and describes leading Google’s response in Russia after the Ukraine invasion, prioritizing people’s safety and values. Matt and Hayaatun also answer audience questions on fear, decisiveness, resilience, and admitting “I don’t know.” 00:00 Welcome and theme 01:21 Leadership playbook shifts 02:35 Pandemic as pivot 05:02 Strategy under pressure 06:56 Clarity and agency 09:50 Collaboration and intel 12:59 Sandstorm metaphor 13:57 Vulnerability in public 16:09 Asking for help 19:19 Decisiveness lesson 23:35 Russia Ukraine crisis 27:44 Chronic uncertainty stamina 29:41 Personal boardroom 30:31 Cognitive diversity 31:28 Facing Worst Cases 32:59 Welcoming Dissent 34:06 Admitting Not Okay 35:26 Peer Support Breakthrough 39:18 Safe to Drive Bus 40:18 Asking for Help 41:21 Leadership Inspiration 42:23 Learning Model Mentors 44:03 Books Beyond Leadership 45:07 Zak Brown Authenticity 47:51 Dystopian Leadership Lessons 50:25 Sleep as Leadership Fuel 51:57 Audience Questions Rapidfire 53:21 Decisive Versus Right 54:33 Resilience Not Denial 55:17 Leading Without Answers 56:43 Beyond Crisis Identity Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    58 min

  6. May 13

    Co-CEOs, Devil Wears Prada 2, AI Creativity, Brian Chesky's Hiring | What We Don't Know: Watercooler

    Awards, AI, Co-CEOs & Loyalty | What We Don't Know Watercooler Hayaatun and Jimmy pull up a chair at the coffee machine to catch up on what's been catching their eye - the City AM Awards, The Devil Wears Prada 2, a controversial Airbnb CEO interview, and your questions on noise, loyalty, and whether AI will swamp the best human ideas. Timestamps 00:00 Welcome to the coffee machine 00:45 Are awards overrated, or do we actually need them? 02:00 The UK startups that got away: why the post-pandemic story isn't as bleak as you think 04:00 The Devil Wears Prada 2 and what pop culture gets right about loving hard work 05:30 Brian Chesky personally hires Airbnb's top 200 — genius or quietly disempowering? 08:30 Co-CEOs: bold leadership model or recipe for confusion? 12:00 Q from Flora: how do you find the signal in the noise? 16:30 Q from the comments: how long should you stay loyal to an organisation? 19:30 Q from Ken: will a billion AI ideas drown out the one great human one? 22:30 See you next time Resource: 🎙️ Brian Chesky: AI Founder Mode — Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy — https://colossus.com/episode/ai-founder-mode/ 📰 Pilita Clark: Why co-CEOs might suit our tumultuous times (FT / Irish Times) — https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2026/05/04/why-co-ceos-might-suit-our-tumultuous-times/ 📖 Reid Hoffman: Tours of Duty — The New Employer-Employee Compact (HBR) — https://hbr.org/2013/06/tours-of-duty-the-new-employer-employee-compact Episodes mentioned: ▶️ Mark Read — Leading 22,000 Employees Who Bet Against You: https://youtu.be/O6oWoVf5X3I ▶️ Natasha Frangos — The Imposter Feeling Every Leader Faces: https://youtu.be/a9AHf_pMHgg ▶️ Sharon White — Why The Best Leaders Are Impossible to Read: https://youtu.be/JluTfnfJYD4 📧 Send us thoughts and questions at whatwedontknow@boxlight.io 💼 Follow us on socials!: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatwedontknow.pod/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/what-we-dont-know-podcast/ Jimmy's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmy-mcloughlin-obe/ Hayaatun's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayaatun/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    24 min

  7. May 6

    Ex John Lewis Boss: Why The Best Leaders Are Impossible to Read | Sharon White

    Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ This week, Hayaatun is joined by Jimmy McLoughlin OBE, host of ⁨@jimmysjobs⁩ , to welcome Baroness Sharon White. Sharon White traces her journey from a working-class East London childhood — daughter of Windrush generation parents who left school at 11 and 14 — through 26 years as one of Whitehall's most senior but deliberately invisible civil servants, to leading OFCOM and later the John Lewis Partnership through COVID and financial turbulence. She shares why being impossible to read became a strategic asset, how the insider/outsider experience of growing up as a minority shaped her willingness to hold unpopular positions, and why she believes the problems facing political leaders today are categorically harder than a generation ago. She reflects on what it takes to lead 80,000 partners through a democratic business structure unlike anything in the private sector, why a reluctant regulator is a better regulator, and how to tell the difference between noise and what's actually real when everything feels urgent. She also discusses building crisis-ready teams before the crisis hits, the leadership skill she thinks nobody talks about enough — and what her teenage son taught her about inclusion. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:38 Introducing Sharon White 03:56 What To Expect Today 04:30 Backstage At Number 10 06:53 Politics In The Social Media Age 08:36 Childhood And Immigrant Roots 13:43 Finding Her Voice 20:02 Purpose Across Career Switches 29:03 Earning Trust In New Worlds 32:50 Becoming Public Facing 36:40 Reluctant Regulator Mindset 40:28 Partnership Democracy Model 41:12 Customer Love and Stakeholders 43:20 Employee Ownership Pride 45:25 Resilience and Gratitude Mindset 47:30 Growth Needs Brave Leadership 51:12 Leading Through Constant Crises 53:07 Parenthood and Inclusion Lessons 56:18 Bravery and De Klerk Story 59:05 Quickfire Leadership Questions 01:01:33 Hosts Reflect on Key Takeaways 01:07:33 Duolingo Taxi Hiring Test 01:11:54 Meta AI Leader Avatars Debate 01:14:12 Wrap Up and Stay Connected Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 15m

  8. Apr 29

    Mandela’s Secret Weapon: How Empathy Can Topple a Dictator

    From Apartheid to Ubuntu: Paul’s Journey with Mandela, Tutu & the Truth Commission Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ Paul recounts growing up white in apartheid South Africa with parents who opposed the regime, joining the anti-apartheid student movement, working on death penalty cases for a young black lawyer who was assassinated, and helping victims’ families build Kule Manni. At 26 he helped develop the Truth and Reconciliation Commission law and became its executive secretary under Archbishop Tutu, sharing leadership lessons about preserving opponents’ dignity and Mandela’s openness to hearing testimony about ANC abuses. He discusses empathy and Ubuntu as foundations for resilient societies, the role of information ecosystems and economic breakdown in modern polarization, and ways to embed Ubuntu in organizational culture. He describes the personal toll of trauma, later scaling transitional justice support globally by offering comparative experience rather than prescriptions, and founding London’s Conduit to convene coalitions tackling complex challenges like UK flooding. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1h 8m
See All (13)

Trailer

About

In a crazy world, how do we get better leaders?  This is the boardroom, unplugged. — Whether starting out, or a seasoned leader, you face a world we’ve never seen before - the future of work, politics, technology and society is harder to predict than ever. So how do we survive the uncertainty and thrive in complexity? The successful leaders of the future will need a different set of skills and come from a broader range of backgrounds. This is for you.  We’re by leaders, for leaders - human stories, messy realities, tips and tricks to use today… not corporate talking points or retrospective perfection. How it really felt, the stuff we don’t see, the advice and events that shaped you and the hard-won wisdom you’d pass on to future leaders.  — What We Don’t Know is a collaboration between: Matt Brittin CBE, Hayaatun Sillem CBE & Boxlight Creative Studio - the award winning production powerhouse behind UK’s biggest business shows.

Information

You Might Also Like