Taking LegalTech To Market

Paul Church
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Taking Legal Tech To Market is the podcast where Legal Tech founders and revenue leaders break down the real go-to-market playbooks behind successful legal technology companies. Each episode dives into how Legal Tech companies actually win, covering sales strategy, market positioning, GTM hiring, and the lessons learned while scaling. Hosted by Paul Church, founder of Talent & Growth and specialist recruiter for Legal Tech go-to-market talent. New episodes every week.

  1. 5d ago

    100 Clients and Zero Marketing Spend | Luke Versweyveld | Co-Founder & CEO: Virgil

    Luke Versweyveld launched Virgil in August 2024 with a co-founder from Answer AI and a mandate from Eric Rees, author of Incorruptible, to build the legal and back office infrastructure that the governance framework needed to actually work in practice. Two years in: a hundred clients, a wait list, zero marketing spend. The growth engine is entirely word of mouth, split roughly 50/50 between their own network and existing clients referring founders they went through incubators with. In this episode Luke covers the full picture: why they chose a tech-enabled professional services firm over a SaaS product, how the squad model works and why it creates a moat that an arm's length law firm can't replicate, what the Atrium lesson taught them about building economics that work from day one without needing AI to save them, and the unreasonable hospitality playbook they're about to run to turn clients into advocates. He also talks about the community play, a free cap table rolling out to all clients, hiring a head of hospitality, and why headcount is the wrong metric entirely. If you're building a startup and thinking about legal and back office, or building a professional services business and wondering what the new model looks like, this is the most practical version of that story. Timestamps:00:00 — What Virgil is and who it serves01:01 — How Luke met Eric Rees and what Incorruptible had to do with it04:38 — Why they chose professional services over SaaS06:36 — 100 clients, zero marketing, entirely word of mouth10:56 — Why the wait list worked when Luke assumed it wouldn't13:14 — The ICP moment when the need slaps founders in the face16:21 — Unreasonable hospitality as a GTM strategy20:00 — Making promos for clients for free as a referral flywheel22:45 — Surprising clients by including things they expected to pay for23:49 — The community play: Bookface for Virgil clients25:56 — Why they didn't raise and what Atrium taught them30:12 — Headcount is a vanity metric. We brag about how few people it takes. 🎙️ Taking LegalTech to Market is hosted by Paul Church, LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space. Subscribe for new episodes every week. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-first-ae-hire-fails-companies-paul-church-jrpme/

    100 Clients and Zero Marketing Spend | Luke Versweyveld | Co-Founder & CEO: Virgil

  2. Season 2, Episode 8 Trailer

    Are You Sure You Can't Get Us In Any Earlier?

    Luke Versweyveld didn't set out to hold off on marketing. Virgil just kept filling up through word of mouth before he ever needed it. Two years in: a hundred clients, a wait list, and a growth model built entirely on the quality of what they deliver. Luke assumed wait lists couldn't be done in legal, if a law firm won't help you today, you find one that will. Virgil proved that wrong. In this trailer: why they built a tech-enabled professional services firm instead of a SaaS product, what it means to feel like a single impossibly capable employee, and why very little happens in a client's company without Virgil's knowledge. Full episode live tomorrow on Taking LegalTech To Market. 🎙️

    Are You Sure You Can't Get Us In Any Earlier?

  3. Sep 25

    We Were Selling Efficiency. They Were Selling Hours. Something Had To Break | Matthew Basile | CEO: Naya Law

    Matthew Basile built Naya while billing two thousand hours a year as a senior associate at a large law firm. He licensed the platform back to his own employer, sold it to other firms, became a partner, and eventually ran into the wall that every LegalTech founder eventually hits when selling into a billable hour model: every hour you cut is revenue someone else in the building used to earn. In this episode Matt covers the full picture: why selling to law firms was the wrong model and what made that clear, how a $40K fee to close a $2M mortgage loan forced him to throw out the model and run it like an ALSP, what happens when you promise a fixed fee and then lose money on a deal, why a 20-person team of well-equipped lawyers should be able to do the revenue of a 150-person firm, and why the AI native law firm conference in New York is exciting precisely because nothing is right or wrong yet. Matt also talks about building MCP integrations with Claude, why AI agents sound better than they perform in complex deal space, why you still need a really good human in the loop, and what it feels like to ship something in a week that would have been technically impossible a year ago. If you're building or selling in commercial real estate legal, interested in AI native law firms, or trying to understand what the transition from law firm to legal tech company actually looks like from the inside, this is the most honest version of that story. Timestamps:00:01 — What Naya does and who it's for01:22 — Building Naya while billing 2,000 hours a year as a senior associate02:04 — The tension between selling efficiency and billing hours04:51 — Why selling into large law firms is harder than it looks07:10 — Law firms as archipelagos: you've signed the firm, you've reached one partner09:01 — The pivot: from law firm software to ALSP for mortgage lenders11:23 -- $40K to close a $2M loan: why the big firm model didn't work13:43 — Fixed fee deals, early losses, and what they taught him to automate16:40 — AI first, tech first, but lawyers aren't going away in complex deal space22:12 — LinkedIn content: why Matt started posting and what's working25:50 — The channel mismatch: LegalTech audience vs mortgage lender buyers28:25 — Why lawyers are scared to post and why that's an opportunity33:48 — Can a 20-person team do the revenue of a 150-person firm?35:01 — North Star: competing head to head with AM Law 150 for CRE finance deals36:48 — Building MCP with Claude and what became possible last week that wasn't possible a year ago 🎙️ Taking LegalTech to Market is hosted by Paul Church, LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space. Subscribe for new episodes every week. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-gtm-brief-7499116024424873984/

    We Were Selling Efficiency. They Were Selling Hours. Something Had To Break | Matthew Basile | CEO: Naya Law

  4. Season 2, Episode 7 Trailer

    $40K to Close a $2M Loan. That's When We Threw Out the Model.

    Matt was a senior associate at a large law firm billing two thousand hours a year. He was also selling that same firm his own software. Every time it worked, someone in the building lost revenue. That tension doesn't resolve. It compounds. In this trailer: why signing a 400-lawyer firm isn't the contract you think it is, why $40K to close a $2M loan forced him to throw out the model entirely, why losing money on fixed fee deals is actually R&D, and whether a 20-person team of well-equipped lawyers can do the revenue of a 150-person firm. Naya's North Star: competing head to head with AM Law 150 firms for commercial real estate finance deals within two years. Full episode going live on Friday on Taking LegalTech to Market. 🎙️

    $40K to Close a $2M Loan. That's When We Threw Out the Model.

  5. Sep 18

    How To Create Customers That Create More Customers | Jacob Adberstein | Co-Founder/CEO: Reflekt Legal

    Jacob Adberstein came from NASA. His brother came from cybersecurity. Neither had a legal background. That turned out to be exactly the right perspective to see a problem the industry had stopped noticing, law firms are losing clients at the intake stage before a lawyer ever picks up the phone. Reflekt Legal builds AI employees that handle reception and intake across voice, email, and SMS. The product isn't sold on efficiency metrics or cost savings. It's sold on something harder to replicate: the experience it gives to the people who call the firms that use it. Mexican-style service, as Jacob calls it, the kind that makes someone feel taken care of rather than processed. In this episode Jacob covers the full picture: why almost all of their firms are still with them, why he tells customers not to buy when buying isn't right for them, why he'd rather be last in an evaluation than first, how the undercover boss audit motion became their most effective pipeline channel, and what 70 to 80% demo-to-close looks like when you stop optimizing for volume and start optimizing for trust. If you're building or selling in LegalTech, hiring for a GTM role, or trying to understand what a referral-led growth engine actually looks like in practice, this is the most practical 30 minutes on all of it. Timestamps:00:00 — What Reflekt Legal does and who it's for00:52 — Why an aerospace engineer and a hacker built a law firm AI02:51 — Vibe coding vs building the actual tech04:37 — Why almost all their firms are still with them05:00 — Word of mouth as the primary growth engine in legal05:43 — Why lawyers become your biggest advocates once you earn them05:58 — Why vendors overcharge lawyers and why that makes trust so powerful07:39 — Telling customers not to buy when buying isn't right for them08:12 — The Mexican service philosophy: the product north star13:01 — The undercover boss audit: borrowed from cybersecurity pen testing16:02 — Why firms that are doing decent have never looked at intake21:21 — 70-80% demo-to-close: what that conversion rate looks like22:49 — Conferences as the highest-converting pipeline channel23:42 — Company policy: every person, every role, works with AI25:47 — What Jacob looks for when hiring salespeople27:20 — North star for the next 12 months and what's coming soon 🎙️ Taking LegalTech to Market is hosted by Paul Church, LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space. Subscribe for new episodes every week.

    How To Create Customers That Create More Customers | Jacob Adberstein | Co-Founder/CEO: Reflekt Legal

  6. Season 2, Episode 6 Trailer

    You Can Vibe Code a Demo. You Can't Vibe Code Trust.

    Lawyers are the hardest buyers in any market. They've been overcharged by every vendor they've ever dealt with, and they remember it. Jacob Adberstein built Reflekt Legal knowing that, and built his entire GTM motion around earning trust rather than closing deals. In this trailer: why he tells customers not to buy when buying isn't right for them, why he'd rather be last in an evaluation than first, how almost all of their firms are still with them, and why the slow and steady approach is exactly what leads to the hockey stick. One converted lawyer who becomes an advocate is worth more than any ad budget. This is how you build that. Full episode dropping soon on Taking LegalTech to Market. 🎙️

    You Can Vibe Code a Demo. You Can't Vibe Code Trust.

  7. Sep 11

    Why I Always Tell My Customers To Try My Competitors First | Maryam Salehijam | Founder: Andarzi

    Maryam Salehijam walked out of a Stanford Law visiting research position into LegalTech sales, with no legal background, no network, and a PhD in something completely different. That outsider perspective is exactly why she sees things most people in this market miss. In this episode Maryam breaks down the full picture: why the objection has shifted from "we don't trust AI" to "we're building our own," why she deliberately wants to be last in every evaluation cycle, why she tells buyers exactly where her competitors are better, and why you cannot sell AI to a burning out team. She also makes the most counterintuitive commercial argument in the episode, she actively recommends smaller subscriptions when a larger one would benefit her, tells customers not to buy when buying isn't right for them, and says the moment you stop doing that is the moment you stop building a referral engine. Maryam is ex CRO at Junior, an AI patent drafting platform. She ran the entire revenue function, lean, AI-enabled, with processes that run themselves. If you're selling into legal right now, hiring for a GTM role, or building a CRO function from scratch, this is the most honest account of what that actually looks like in 2026. Timestamps:00:00 — PhD to LegalTech CRO: the Stanford Law corridor moment04:41 — Why lawyers are miserable and why that matters to GTM05:08 — Junior's ICP: patent prosecutors, in-house IP, trademark teams06:28 — The best channel to reach your ICP in 202606:55 — Why email and cold calling are both dead08:03 — Organic word of mouth as the primary growth engine13:13 — The objection shift: from "we don't trust AI" to "we're building our own"17:24 — Be last in the evaluation cycle, not first19:07 — Why Maryam tells buyers who her competitors are and where they're better20:55 — You cannot sell AI to a burning out team21:47 — Three-year contracts before proving value: that's just selfish22:53 — What Maryam looks for when hiring for GTM23:36 — Why immigrants make great startup hires24:55 — How AI has replaced RevOps, sales ops, EAs, and most BDRs25:41 — The two automations that changed her sales process26:42 — What success looks like for Junior in the next 12 months 🎙️ Taking LegalTech to Market is hosted by Paul Church, LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space. Subscribe for new episodes every week.

    Why I Always Tell My Customers To Try My Competitors First | Maryam Salehijam | Founder: Andarzi

  8. Season 2, Episode 5 Trailer

    You Didn't Even Read the Email Your AI Sent to Me.

    Maryam Salehijam is ex CRO at Junior, AI patent drafting. She's selling AI to lawyers. And she's also the person on the other side of your outbound sequence, watching salespeople ask questions that were already answered in the AI-generated email they clearly never read. In this trailer: why she deliberately wants to be last in every evaluation, why she tells buyers exactly who her competitors are and where they're better, and why the only GTM motion that still works in legal AI is one built entirely on trust. The objection used to be "we don't trust AI." Now it's "we're building our own." The playbook changed. Most people haven't noticed yet. Full episode going live on Friday.

    You Didn't Even Read the Email Your AI Sent to Me.
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Taking Legal Tech To Market is the podcast where Legal Tech founders and revenue leaders break down the real go-to-market playbooks behind successful legal technology companies. Each episode dives into how Legal Tech companies actually win, covering sales strategy, market positioning, GTM hiring, and the lessons learned while scaling. Hosted by Paul Church, founder of Talent & Growth and specialist recruiter for Legal Tech go-to-market talent. New episodes every week.

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