Oh, You Too

Eric Carpenter and John Bethell
  • 5.0 (7)
  • Religion & Spirituality
  • Updated Weekly

Have you ever felt like an outsider in your own faith? Join John and Eric as they navigate the messy, beautiful process of deconstructing and rebuilding faith in real-time. We believe the real Jesus was defined by radical, boundary-breaking inclusivity, and we’re trying our best to follow that lead. From 90s "Purity Culture" hangovers to the complexities of the modern Church, we’re here to remind you that questions aren't the enemy. We are trading narrow certainty for a community where you belong.

  1. 1d ago

    Who we were, Who we are...

    Season 2 kicks off with a new format featuring guests on every episode. Eric and John begin the season by sitting down with their long-time best friend, Kari, who knew them nearly 30 years ago when they were "balls deep" in evangelical Christian culture and remains close with them today as they walk through reconstructed faith and adult life. Segment 1: Current Events & The "Spectacle of Inhumanity" (~0:00 – 18:00) National Headlines: Eric and John discuss the Department of War's briefly proposed (and since rescinded) idea to livestream a military execution, drawing parallels to Stephen King’s The Stand and historic American spectacles of violence. Racial Injustice: They address the deeply disturbing trend of Black individuals found hanging from trees across the South (often swiftly ruled as suicides without thorough investigations) and reference Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit." Lighthearted Wrap: A quick palate cleanser about a long-haul truck driver who built an 800,000-piece scale model of New York City for fun and "the therapeutic challenge of creation." Segment 2: Nostalgia, The Claddagh Rings & The Teen Study Bible (~18:00 – 35:00) Shared History: Kari, Eric, and John reminisce about growing up together in New Jersey, including the origin of Kari and John’s matching Irish Claddagh rings that they’ve both worn for over 20 years. The 1993 Teen Study Bible: Kari pulls out an old NIV Teen Study Bible that 10-year-old Eric had filled out and later gave to her. They laugh over Eric’s childhood responses—listing his favorite verse as Philippians 4:13 ("I can do all things through Christ"), leaving his "best feature" blank because he was taught he was inherently sinful, and listing his adult career goals as "an astronaut at NASA, a physical therapist, or a marine biologist." Segment 3: Growing Up Non-Religious & "Camp" Culture (~35:00 – 52:00) Kari’s Background: Raised in a culturally Jewish household, Kari shares what it was like dropping out of Hebrew school in the 2nd grade and viewing church/religion as a completely foreign world. Summer Camp Shenanigans: Kari reflects on visiting Eric and John at their Christian summer camp, assuming it was just a normal recreational sleepaway camp, while John shares a legendary story about surprising Eric in the camp laundry room wearing booby tassels. Segment 4: Mental Health, Purity Culture, & Unlearning Judgment (~52:00 – 1:18:00) Mental Health & Dismissiveness: Kari opens up about struggling with severe anxiety and mental health from a young age. Eric reflects with regret on how his youthful, evangelical mindset caused him to dismiss her struggles by telling her "she wouldn't need medication if she just had Christ," contrasting that with the crippling anxiety he secretly suffered from at the time. Late-Night Lifeline: Eric shares an emotional story about having his first full-blown panic attack years later and calling Kari in the middle of the night—thanking her for talking him through it and offering unconditional support despite his past behavior. Sexuality & Repression: The group contrasts Kari’s open, un-censored upbringing with Eric’s heavily repressed purity-culture conditioning and the shame attached to premarital sex. Segment 5: The Trunk of the Saturn & Living in "Rapture Fear" (~1:18:00 – 1:25:00) The Prank: John and Kari recall a highway prank where John crawled into the trunk of a tiny Saturn through the back seat while Eric was driving. Upon noticing John was gone, Eric’s immediate, panic-induced assumption was that the Rapture had happened and John was taken while he and Kari were left behind. Closing Thoughts: They reflect on the "fog of fear" and f****d-up adrenal glands caused by high-control religious conditioning, concluding that processing and laughing at the absurdity of the past is the best way forward.

  2. Jun 30

    Reconstruction: Living in the "Aftermath"

    Grab your hard hats, because it is officially time for the season finale! In this final episode of our first season, Eric and Johnny skip the usual current events segment to dedicate the entire hour to the daunting, beautiful, and deeply personal work of reconstruction. In This Episode: ​Big Flag Energy & Square States: The guys kick off the final episode with some fantastic trivia as John reveals he is a massive "flag guy". He drops some incredible knowledge about the Greek national motto Elephtia Othanatos ("freedom or death") and how its nine syllables match the nine stripes on the Greek flag. This leads to a hilarious tangent about Nepal having the only non-rectangular flag and Colorado being the only truly square state.​The Full Circle Drop: Eric points out a beautiful coincidence: today is the exact day they are recording the final installment of their first grouping of episodes, and it also happens to be the exact day that episode 1 officially dropped for the public. Eric shares the wonderful, overwhelmingly positive feedback they’ve been receiving from old church circles, family, and camp friends, which has naturally "kicked up some dust" and resurfaced a lot of old stories.​Deconstruction vs. Demolition: Shifting into the heart of the finale, John shares that if we are people of "Resurrection," we have to fundamentally believe that things must die before they can be built back up. Eric reflects on John's life, noting that while many go through deconstruction, John’s journey looked more like a complete structural demolition across five distinct full careers.​The Subversive Library Find: John tracks his gradual road to reconstruction back to a pivotal moment during his Bible college days. Sneaking away to the local public library like a "stupid freaking nerd," he stumbled upon an out-of-print, highly subversive book titled Paul the Mythmaker, which completely blew open his understanding of historical context and faith.​ Gigi, Yugoslavia, and a Second-Grade Reality Check: In a deeply personal revelation, John opens up about his maternal family heritage, explaining that his grandmother and grandfather were Muslim immigrants from Yugoslavia. He shares the beautiful meaning behind his mother’s name, and how he has affectionately called her "Gigi" since he was a toddler. John recounts a core childhood memory from the second grade when his grandmother told him, "Johnny, we all have the same God and the same stories." This profound piece of childhood wisdom stayed with him, heavily clashing against the rigid evangelical camp environments where leaders aggressively told him his family was going straight to hell. Thank you so much for walking through this first season with us! If today’s raw conversation sparked something in your own journey, we would love for you to stay a part of our growing community. Hit follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you're ready when the next season drops, and find us on TikTok and Instagram to stay connected during the break!

  3. Jun 25 ·  Bonus

    [BONUS EPISODE] Christian Nationalism vs. The Kingdom of God: Part 2

    This is a special, unplanned bonus episode. The hosts realized there was simply too much to talk about on the subject of Christian Nationalism to fit into a single regular episode, forcing them to drop this extra conversation after waiting for John's "raging bile duct" to calm down from the overwhelming influx of daily political news. In This Episode: ​The Albanian Exit Strategy: Eric opens the episode by catching John off guard as he clicks record while putting away paperwork for his final stages of securing dual Albanian citizenship. Having lived there for most of 2024, John explains his long-game strategy: tracing his grandfather's 1904 Ottoman-era birth records from Shkodër and his 10-year stint as a political prisoner under the communist regime. John explains that holding a second passport serves as a personal "exit strategy" that ironically helps him stay in America longer without getting antsy.​Authoritarian Creep & Highway Nazis: Leaning directly into why this country feels less welcoming, John and Eric track the visible gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the immediate, aggressive redistricting pushing back Southern elections. Meanwhile, John describes how Christian Nationalism and extremism are actively creeping up into northern New England.​The Activist Priest Temptation: John and Eric revisit the geographic disparity of modern politics, comparing conservative Texas to the ultra-progressive Bay Area. John confesses that while it would be incredibly easy to use his structural authority to put his thumb on the scale as an "activist priest," he chooses to keep politics entirely out of his weekly sermons. He believes his primary pastoral duty is to give people one hour a week to simply tend to their souls.​The Humility of "The Way": Unpacking the upcoming Sunday gospel text from John 14 ("I am the way, the truth, and the life"), John challenges the weaponization of the verse. He argues that the "way" of Christ is exclusively a path of deep humility and radical, reckless love for the outsider—not a tool for institutional exclusion, White House tongue-speaking spectacles, or creating government offices to handle imagined Christian persecution.​Defining the Wild Illusion: The guys explicitly define Nationalism as the wild theological claim that one specific nation is uniquely favored or chosen by God. Eric highlights how this entirely contradicts the New Testament—citing Galatians 3:28's declaration of no Jew or Gentile—and points out the ultimate flaw of American Christianity: believing that God possesses a political party or somehow strictly "needs" America.​Reading Other People's Mail: John completely dismantles the framework of Christian Zionism, calling out the evangelical obsession with taking Old Testament promises meant for historical Israel and copying-and-pasting them onto modern America. He drops a blunt reality check: there are zero white people and zero mentions of America in the entire Bible, meaning modern nationalistic Christians are essentially "reading other people's mail" and pretending it belongs to them. If today’s raw conversation sparked something in your own journey, we would love for you to join our growing community. Hit follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you never miss a weekly drop, and follow us on TikTok and Instagram to keep the conversation going!

  4. Jun 23

    Christian Nationalism vs. The Kingdom of God

    In this heavy hitting and deeply transparent episode, Eric and Johnny step right into the crosshairs of modern religious politics to unpack the anxiety, history, and internal contradictions defining Christian Nationalism in America. In This Episode: ​The Best Day of the Year: Eric kicks off the show with a beautiful celebration of the "best day of the year"—his wife Rebecca's birthday. This leads the guys to reflect on the "No Kings" democratic overreach protests that recently took place. Eric shares a moving account of attending a local gathering in Conroe with Rebecca, describing how overwhelmingly moved they were to see elderly citizens standing arm-in-arm with young people across all walks of life. John ties the day to the feast of theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, dropping a powerful truth about waiting for people to organically turn toward grace rather than forcing conversions.​Fluffing the Tangled Skein: Transitioning to the core of the episode, Eric confesses to navigating intense personal anxiety surrounding the current political landscape and the state of the union. John compares tackling Christian Nationalism to trying to untangle a knotted ball of yarn—a process of slowly "fluffing the tangled skein" to look at its separate parts. They dissect "American Zionism," the flawed theological idea that America is the literal fulfillment of Old Testament promises.​Capitalism and Idolatry: As a biracial man, Eric openly challenges the exclusionary, protective demographic nature of Christian Nationalistic language. The hosts question how a movement can claim Christ while practicing unbridled capitalism. While both hosts identify as business-minded capitalists, John shares a profound rabbinic story about a rabbi whose focus on studying the law made him deaf to his own crying child. John notes that money becomes an idol the exact moment it makes someone deaf to the cries of human suffering. ​Fences, Flight, and the Canaanite Woman: Addressing immigration and political borders, John uses a brilliant analogy: humans spend all their time building backyard fences, but God is the bird flying high above them, completely paying no attention to the lines we draw. John walks through a difficult passage in Matthew 15 involving Jesus and a Canaanite woman, arguing that Jesus temporarily mirrored the disciples' own cultural prejudices back to them to brilliantly expose the foolishness of their exclusion. If today’s raw conversation sparked something in your own journey, we would love for you to join our growing community. Hit follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you never miss a weekly drop, and follow us on TikTok and Instagram to keep the conversation going!

  5. Jun 16

    The "Exvangelical" Grief & The Cost of Leaving

    In this very special episode, Eric and Johnny step aside from their usual two-man banter to welcome their first-ever guest, John Hosmer. Longtime friend of the show's inner circle, Hosmer shares his gripping personal journey from the extreme heights of hyper-evangelicalism to a complete hairpin curve into a life completely outside of faith. In This Episode: An Introduction to a Media Empire: Eric kicks things off with a primer on what exactly Hillsong is for those who might only know the music. He describes it as a global charismatic Christian megachurch and multi-million dollar media empire founded in Australia that radically redefined modern worship culture. If you've ever "shouted to the Lord" on a Sunday morning, you know Hillsong. From Prosperity Gospel to the Outback: Guest John Hosmer details his upbringing in a rigid prosperity gospel environment dominated by Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar, complete with endless demands for money and vacations to believers' conventions. Seeking an escape and a healthier expression of faith, he packed up his life at 25 and spent four and a half years down under at Hillsong College in Australia from 2010 to 2014. Theology, Evolution, and Mind-Blowing Choices: Initially arriving as a bass player to study music, Hosmer recounts how his worldview shattered when he met Christians who actually believed in evolution. Driven to know more, he switched to the pastoral stream to study theology, introducing him to massive biblical scholars like N.T. Wright, Miroslav Volf, and Jürgen Moltmann. He details the liberating experience of learning to read the Bible in its historical context rather than taking it at absolute face value. The Silent Tipping Point: While acknowledging that Hillsong's subsequent scandals are entirely well-deserved, Hosmer credits the college with initially opening his mind. However, after transitioning into a traditional ministry career, a devastating series of life events in 2019—including a painful divorce and a sudden, corporate-style firing from his dream church job—left him met with absolute divine silence. He opens up about the terrifying realization that, after giving the faith everything he had, he simply no longer believed any of it. The Spectrum of Graduation: Eric, John, and Hosmer map out the vast spectrum of deconstruction. While Eric and John have constructed a new, evolved semblance of faith, Hosmer explains his choice to say "f**k it" and walk away entirely. He passionately shares his decision to protect his new 10-month-old son from the fundamentalist indoctrination and trauma that all three of the men experienced during their upbringings. Life is the T**s: Despite the heavy grief of walking away from his entire identity, Hosmer delivers an inspiring message of hope. Now happily remarried, a new father, and a passionate gardener working stable hours in tech, he proudly declares that his life is "the t**s". The guys close out by reflecting on poetry, the freedom to let your body love what it loves, and the beautiful reality that you can always hit the reset button when a path stops working for you. If today’s raw conversation sparked something in your own journey, we would love for you to join our growing community. Hit follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you never miss a weekly drop, and follow us on TikTok and Instagram to keep the conversation going!

  6. Jun 9

    Spiritual Abuse & "High-Control" Culture

    In this episode, Johnny and Eric wade through the bizarre landscape of modern political imagery before diving into a heavy, necessary conversation on clerical authority, spiritual gaslighting, and why the modern church has become so inherently terrified of questions. In This Episode: Temu Twitter & The Wrinkle Factory: The guys open with a wild current-events breakdown of a bizarre, AI-generated image posted by the president. This sparks a larger, bipartisan critique of a political landscape run by an absolute "wrinkle factory" of aging leaders who are entirely too old for office. The Politics of the Pulpit: Eric asks John a direct question: how does he avoid turning his sermons into a political commentary loop? John reveals his strict policy of keeping politics entirely out of the pulpit. He explains that because people are completely inundated by constant political noise all week long, he views it as a pastoral duty to give his parish one hour a week to tend to their souls and find rest around a shared table. Punching In & Leading From the Rear: John shares a peek behind the curtain of clerical titles, explaining that when his parishioners call him "Father," he doesn't view it as a marker of authority, but rather a "responsibility cloak" signaling that he is officially "punched in" to do a job. He reframes the pastoral calling using the Middle Eastern style of shepherding, where shepherds don't lead from the front, but rather guide from the rear to catch the stragglers pushing forward. Megaphones & The Bully Pulpit: They address the hidden brokenness and power moves that frequently taint church leadership. John shares a story from his seminary days about a peer who sought ordination merely because the collar gave him a cultural cachet and a "bully pulpit" megaphone he never had before. They confront how leaders often use boisterous bloviating as a shield against accountability so people won't examine their clay feet. Confusing an Idea of God with Reality: Why is the institutional church so afraid of scrutiny? John uncovers a profound truth: people frequently confuse their personal idea of God with the actual reality of God. Consequently, when a genuine question is asked, leaders feel like God's very existence is being threatened. John contrasts this with a beautiful memory of his own father, who progressively told him that if he ever found a path that was "more truth" for his soul, he had to pursue it. Every David Needs a Samuel: To wrap up, John recounts the biblical story of King David, Bathsheba, and the prophet Samuel's clever confrontation. Invoking Thomas Beckett's famous warning that it is highly dangerous for men in power to have no one to tell them they are wrong, John and Eric reflect on the vital importance of having true friends who aren't afraid to look you in the eye and tell you when you are messing up. If today’s raw conversation sparked something in your own journey, we would love for you to join our growing community. Hit follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you never miss a weekly drop, and follow us on TikTok and Instagram to keep the conversation going!

  7. Jun 2

    Purity Culture & The 90s Hangover

    In this episode, Eric and Johnny clear out the clutter with some nostalgic appreciation for the show's theme music before jumping headfirst into the heavy, deeply institutional, and often traumatic history of evangelical purity culture. In This Episode: Nostalgia and Whoopie Pies: The guys open the show with a heartfelt shoutout to David Hiester, a brilliant musician and old camp co-counselor who graciously composed the theme music for Oh, You Too. This trip down memory lane sparks a hilarious conversation about their old camp director, David's father, and David's mom's legendary, unmatched Pennsylvania whoopie pies. The Rise of the "Trad Wife": Transitioning into current events, Eric highlights a recent niche subculture finding that nearly 47% of Gen Z women view traditional marriage and staying at home as ideal, actively stepping away from "girl boss" expectations. John and Eric debate the psychology behind this shift, exploring whether it stems from third-wave feminist autonomy or a trauma-informed desire for absolute certainty—letting someone else make the hard decisions so you never have to face the consequences. The Only Thing Jesus Never Said: The hosts unpack how Christian nationalism pushes the stay-at-home housewife archetype as a core spiritual discipline. Eric notes the wild irony of elder millennials claiming "I'm not a feminist" despite driving cars, renting houses, and holding credit cards. John hits them with a theological reality check: despite what fundamentalism preaches, Jesus never once explicitly told women that popping out babies and staying at home was their only design. The History of the Obsession with Purity: Eric asks John a foundational question: why did the 90s and early 2000s evangelical church choose fear and shame for sexual education instead of grace and wisdom? John traces this structural fixation back to the 1950s, revealing a sobering historical timeline: the exact year Eisenhower integrated public schools was the very same year massive religious private schools cropped up across the nation so white families could remain privately segregated. John argues that the obsession with "racial purity" effortlessly slid right into the obsession with "sexual purity" as a tool for institutional control. Object Lessons & Purity Balls: The guys confront the deep spiritual trauma inflicted on teenagers by toxic youth group object lessons—from peeling tape off shirts to passing around pre-chewed gum to symbolize "lost worth". They call out the deeply unsettling, overtly sexualized world of "Purity Balls," where young girls are forced to symbolically date their sword-wielding fathers and commit their physical bodies to them until marriage. Peter, Good Will Hunting, and Grace: To wrap up, John shares a beautiful pastoral perspective on forgiveness by linking the biblical restoration of Peter to the iconic "it’s not your fault" scene from Good Will Hunting. They reflect on how true love dismantles institutional coercion and finally allows people to heal from the shame of their past. If today’s raw conversation sparked something in your own journey, we would love for you to join our growing community. Hit follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you never miss a weekly drop, and follow us on TikTok and Instagram to keep the conversation going!

  8. May 26

    The "Red Letter" Conflict

    In this episode, fresh off a couple of much-needed haircuts, Johnny and Eric step into the crosshairs of American politics to examine a glaring dissonance: the historical divide between the radical, restorative teachings of Jesus and the rigid institutional framework of Paul. In This Episode: Assault Rifles and the Cross: The guys jump into the political arena, confronting viral comments from politicians like Lauren Boebert who famously claimed that if Jesus had an assault rifle, He wouldn't have been crucified. John completely upends this logic, pointing out that the desire to use violence to avoid suffering sounds exactly like the first thief on the cross. They unpack how a modern obsession with firearms directly contradicts the Christ who looked at Peter, told him to put away his sword, and said, "No more of this." The "Supply-Side" Jesus: Quoting William Blake's poem The Everlasting Gospel—"That vision of Christ that thou dost see is my own vision’s greatest enemy"—John explains how humanity constantly shapes a Jesus that merely bolsters our own preexisting biases. They debate how the Beatitudes have been flipped on their head in contemporary discourse, changing "Blessed are the poor" into "Blessed are the job creators." The Fetish of Hypocrisy: John and Eric react to the breaking scandal surrounding politician Kristi Noem's husband and his online double life. They reflect on the popular "Pastor Arrested" subreddit, unpacking how the rigid shame-based structures passed down from St. Augustine cause leaders to project external hatred onto marginalized groups (like drag queens) because they are utterly terrified of looking at their own authentic selves. The Jesus vs. Paul Gap: Eric poses a foundational question: why is it so much easier for pastors to build a 45-minute sermon around Paul's letters than Jesus's parables? John shares a perspective that rocks Eric's world—revealing that as an Episcopal priest, his sermons are strictly rooted in the Gospels, and he can't remember the last time he preached from Paul. They discuss how people gravitate toward Paul because they want cut-and-dry rules, ignoring that Jesus is the ultimate patron saint of "chaos" who completely ignores social hierarchies. The Collusion of Church and State: John and Eric dissect the history of the Johnson Amendment and the toxic nature of Christian Nationalism. John highlights that it wasn't a lack of weapons that killed Jesus—it was the corrupt collusion of temple and state power. If today’s raw conversation sparked something in your own journey, we would love for you to join our community. Hit follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you never miss a weekly drop, and follow us on TikTok and Instagram to keep the conversation going!

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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
7 Ratings

About

Have you ever felt like an outsider in your own faith? Join John and Eric as they navigate the messy, beautiful process of deconstructing and rebuilding faith in real-time. We believe the real Jesus was defined by radical, boundary-breaking inclusivity, and we’re trying our best to follow that lead. From 90s "Purity Culture" hangovers to the complexities of the modern Church, we’re here to remind you that questions aren't the enemy. We are trading narrow certainty for a community where you belong.

Information

  • Creator
    Eric Carpenter and John Bethell
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    13
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Eric Carpenter and John Bethell
  • Show Website
    Oh, You Too