Leadership Without a Playbook

Sara Riedel & Deb Jennings
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Leadership Without a Playbook is a conversation series featuring Sara Riedel and Deb Jennings as they explore the realities of modern leadership in a rapidly changing world. Through candid conversations and real-world experiences, they discuss topics such as curiosity, navigating change, career growth, networking, leading with grace, and personal branding. Join them for practical insights, fresh perspectives, and honest discussions designed to help leaders grow with confidence, clarity, and purpose.

Episodes

  1. 23h ago

    Career Jungle Gyms

    Is your career a ladder or a jungle gym? In this episode, Sara Riedel and Deb Jennings explore one of the most liberating shifts in how we think about careers: sometimes the fastest way up is sideways. Deb shares the lateral move to marketing she resisted three times — and why it became the best decision of her career — plus how a decade of nurtured relationships brought her current role to her before it was ever posted. Sara reflects on a career built almost entirely on the jungle gym: rotational roles, training preceptorships, and leadership experience earned through employee resource groups. Together they dig into the harder side of the conversation, too: the perfectionism and imposter syndrome that make us cling to comfort, whether "being comfortable" is sometimes avoidance in disguise, and how to reframe self-doubt so it doesn't hold you back. Their answer isn't to have all the answers on day one — it's to trust yourself to find them. What you'll learn in this episode: The real trade-offs between jungle gym careers (breadth, perspective, network) and linear staircases (promotions, deep expertise) — and why there's no wrong answer, only what's right for your season of lifeWhy a lateral move can be the thing that gets you your next roleThe overlooked leadership training ground of ERGs, volunteer roles, and rotational programsHow major companies deliberately build "jungle gyms" into succession planning for future executivesWhy lifelong learners who lean into ambiguity are the candidates who get hired and promotedHow to reframe self-doubt: you don't need the knowledge yet — you need the skills to acquire it, and the willingness to ask for helpKey takeaways: Sara: Don't look at your career as a ladder that only goes straight up. Taking a leap into an area where you don't have all the answers will benefit you later in ways you can't see today. There are many paths to where you want to go — take the opportunity and run with it. Deb: The data backs it up — candidates who lean in, learn new things, and stay adaptable are the ones who win roles and promotions. The moments that feel most uncomfortable are the ones where you're learning the most, and they often lead to the relationships that lead to your next job. Quotes: "Not all those who wander are lost." — J.R.R. Tolkien "If you're offered a seat on a rocket ship, don't ask what seat. Just get on." — Sheryl Sandberg "It's not about knowing the answer when you get there. It's about trusting yourself to find the answer." — Sara Riedel Coming up next episode: Nurturing Your Narrative — because, as Jeff Bezos puts it, "Your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room." Join the conversation: This podcast is sponsored by the Leadership Exchange Club, launching this fall. You don't have to lead a team — individual contributors with a leadership mindset are welcome. Network, meet new people, and learn from the experiences of others at https://leadershipexchangeclub.com

  2. Aug 13

    Leading With Grace

    leadershipexchangeclub.com Summary In this episode, Sara and Deb discuss the significance of grace in leadership, emphasizing the importance of giving and receiving grace in both personal and professional contexts. They share personal stories that highlight the challenges of navigating difficult situations while maintaining empathy and understanding. The conversation also touches on the need for perceptiveness in leadership and the importance of checking in on others. Finally, they introduce the concept of career navigation as a jungle gym, encouraging listeners to embrace non-linear career paths with authenticity and confidence. Takeaways Grace is a behavior that can transform interactions. Assuming positive intent helps in giving grace. Personal challenges often go unseen by others. Empathy and perceptiveness are crucial in leadership. Checking in with others can reveal hidden struggles. Navigating careers can be non-linear like jungle gyms. Self-care is essential for effective leadership. Authenticity fosters approachability and collaboration. People remember how you make them feel. We are all writing our playbook as we go. grace, leadership, empathy, personal challenges, career navigation, psychological safety, networking, self-care, authenticity, curiosity titles Leading with Grace: A Transformative Approach ## Sound Bites 00:00 "Assume positive intent." 08:45 "You have so much going on." ## Chapters 00:00 The Importance of Grace in Leadership 04:53 Navigating Personal Challenges with Grace 09:12 Perceptiveness and Empathy in Leadership 11:18 Career Navigation: The Jungle Gym Approach

  3. Aug 6

    The Power of Networking

    The Power of NetworkingNetworking, Human Connection, and Why AI Can’t Replace Real Relationshipsvisit leadershipexchangeclub.com to join the conversation and build your network. Episode: Sara Riedel of the KALA Leadership Collective and co-host Deb Jennings talk about why networking works best when it starts with service, not self-interest. They also explore how AI and digital tools can support leaders without replacing the human connection that builds trust, opportunity, and resilience. In this episode, Sara Riedel frames the conversation around networking, human connection, and the tension between digital convenience and real relationship-building.Deb Jennings defines networking as being in service of others, and says it can feel “icky” when it only shows up as a favor request after years of no contact.The two reflect on how this podcast itself began through networking, mutual admiration, and social media connection, which turned into collaboration.Deb shares that she now competes against herself rather than against other women, and focuses on elevating others instead of fighting for limited space.She points to the Women’s Informational and Social Exchange, or WISE, as an example of building authentic community among female leaders in the pharmaceutical industry.Sara shares that her own decision to become an entrepreneur was strengthened by her network, which encouraged her to move forward instead of waiting.They note that a large share of jobs are filled through networking, but stress that outreach should be intentional and grounded in genuine care.Sara emphasizes that a quick phone call can create more clarity and connection than a long back-and-forth text exchange.Deb adds that strong networks check in on people during hard seasons, because you never know what someone is carrying.Sara introduces the Leadership Exchange Club, a fall cohort based on Deb’s book, Leadership in the Rough, designed to help people build authentic connections through shared discussion.Timestamps(0:00) Episode kickoff and the rule that both hosts answer every question (0:22) Why this episode is about networking and strengthening connections (1:26) Sara’s concern that AI may pull people away from one another (3:23) Deb’s definition of networking as service to others (3:51) How the podcast began through mutual admiration and intentional outreach (4:21) Competing with yourself and elevating other women (5:20) Why WISE was founded and what authentic community looks like (6:31) Sara on how her network helped her become an entrepreneur (7:11) Why networking relationships should cross from professional into personal support (7:58) Staying connected intentionally without making every interaction transactional (8:58) Why a quick phone call often works better than a long text thread (10:09) Checking on people and asking “How are you?” with real care (11:07) Leading with grace and teaching kids that what you put out comes back (12:22) How the Leadership Exchange Club creates authentic networking through small groups (13:03) Grace, networking, and the next topic they plan to unpack (13:40) Closing thoughts and invitation to join Leadership Exchange Club Notable quotes “The true definition of networking is being in service of others.” “Pick up the phone. It’s okay and give somebody a call.” “What you put out, that’s what comes back to you.”

  4. Jul 30

    Embracing Change

    Embracing Change In this episode of Leadership Without a Playbook, Deb and Sara explore the theme of embracing change, sharing personal experiences and insights on how to navigate significant transitions in life and work. They discuss the importance of adaptability, the role of leadership during times of change, and the value of a supportive network. The conversation emphasizes that change is a constant in life, and how one can grow and learn from it, regardless of whether it is chosen or thrust upon them. Sound Bites 00:00 "Embracing change is all about growth." 08:04 "Everything's gonna be okay." 11:09 "You have to role model leadership." Chapters 00:00 Embracing Change: An Introduction 01:26 Sara's Journey Through Change 07:09 Deb's Leadership Experience During Change 13:06 The Nature of Change: Chosen vs. Thrust Upon Us 15:34 Final Thoughts on Embracing Change

  5. Jul 23

    Leadership Without a Playbook

    Leadership Without a Playbook is a podcast for leaders navigating the moments no one prepares you for. https://leadershipexchangeclub.com/ The difficult conversations. The tough decisions. The uncertainty. The unexpected challenges. Because the truth is, leadership doesn't come with a playbook. Hosted by Sara Riedel and Deb Jennings, this podcast is built on honest conversations, shared experiences, and practical ideas to help leaders navigate the realities of leadership with greater confidence and clarity. Rather than interviewing experts from a distance, Sara and Deb explore leadership together—exchanging perspectives, challenging assumptions, and sharing lessons learned from years of leading, coaching, and working alongside leaders across industries. Whether you're leading a team, stepping into your first leadership role, or navigating your next challenge, each episode offers practical insights, fresh perspectives, and actionable ideas you can apply immediately. Because leadership isn't meant to be figured out alone.

  • 5 Episodes

About

Leadership Without a Playbook is a conversation series featuring Sara Riedel and Deb Jennings as they explore the realities of modern leadership in a rapidly changing world. Through candid conversations and real-world experiences, they discuss topics such as curiosity, navigating change, career growth, networking, leading with grace, and personal branding. Join them for practical insights, fresh perspectives, and honest discussions designed to help leaders grow with confidence, clarity, and purpose.

Information

  • Creator
    Sara Riedel & Deb Jennings
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    5
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Sara Riedel & Deb Jennings