ProductCamp Conversations

Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias

ProductCamp Conversations is a podcast for curious product people. It is hosted by Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias, thinking out loud, with an occasional guest, about the parts of product that don't fit on a roadmap: community, the human element, and the work that happens from casual conversations with other product people. We are Allison and Dave, product friends, that met at a ProductCamp in 2022. As people that enjoy both attending and participating in the ProductCamp community we decided to create a podcast related to the amazingness of this community. Maybe we will see you at a ProductCamp sometime soon, but in the meantime take the opportunity to indulge in some ProductCamp Conversations. Subscribe on your favorite podcast player to get new episodes when they come out. Got feedback or a potential guest? Contact us at productcampconversations@gmail.com.

  1. 1d ago

    The Day of the Non-Technical PM May Be Over (with Jason Brett)

    Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with ProductCamp Atlanta founder and Product Coffee host Jason Brett to trace how one tweet drafted him into running an unconference he had never attended, and what has kept that community going through a pandemic, a shifting sponsor landscape, and the AI era. 📌 Topics Covered: • From computer sales trainer to self-taught developer to SaaS founder, and discovering at BellSouth that the work he loved had a name: product management • "You dance with the one that brung ya": how loyalty to early clients turned a web agency into a product • Getting voluntold into ProductCamp Atlanta, the first-morning crowd of 40 volunteers at the door, and why Paul Young is the godfather of ProductCamp • How Product Coffee started on Zoom during lockdown and grew from "whenever I got around to it" to weekly • Measuring a free community event: dropping NPS in favor of return rate, early session proposals, and leftover food • Sponsorship shifts, Friends of ProductCamp and Scholars tickets, and this year's experiment: camp is free, lunch is not • Why case studies make the best sessions, and why the day of the non-technical PM may be over -------------------------------------------------- 🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST JASON BRETT: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ijasonbrett • Product Coffee: https://productcoffee.com • ProductCamp Atlanta: https://pcampatl.com -------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS: • Allison Herbert: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42 - Website: https://allisonherbert.com • Dave Mathias: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1 - X / Twitter: https://x.com/davemathias - Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com -------------------------------------------------- 📩 GET IN TOUCH: Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest? Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com! 👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more conversations on the human side of product management.

    The Day of the Non-Technical PM May Be Over (with Jason Brett)

  2. Oct 17

    Am I Learning? Not "Am I Doing the Most?" (with Jackie Flake)

    Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with Atlanta product consultant, coach, and recruiter Jackie Flake to talk about showing up as a whole person in a market that keeps flattening people into resumes, from the stage, to LinkedIn, to the hiring pipeline. 📌 Topics Covered: • Learning product "the hard way" and her first ProductCamp Atlanta talk on five mistakes to avoid in your product career • Why she pitches with a story instead of a bio, and how that changed the way her sessions land • Her talk on faith and layoffs, and why your identity doesn't have to be wrapped up in your career • Trading "am I doing the most?" for "am I learning?" when AI FOMO says the finish line keeps moving • Going fractional: why sales is the hard part, and consultants have to add value from day one • Posting for the next person who hires you instead of the algorithm, and the 60 to 90 second voice memo as a modern cover letter • Why ProductCamp Atlanta's morning pitch format is worth the nerves, and what The War of Art taught her about getting unstuck 📚 Referenced: • The War of Art — Steven Pressfield: https://stevenpressfield.com/the-war-of-art/ • Principles — Ray Dalio: https://www.principles.com/ -------------------------------------------------- 🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST JACKIE FLAKE: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackieflake/ • Website: https://option1partners.com/ (Option1Partners) -------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS: • Allison Herbert: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42 - Website: https://allisonherbert.com • Dave Mathias: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1 - X / Twitter: https://x.com/davemathias - Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com -------------------------------------------------- 📩 GET IN TOUCH: Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest? Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com! 👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more conversations on the human side of product management.

    Am I Learning? Not "Am I Doing the Most?" (with Jackie Flake)

  3. Oct 10

    Little Is Learned in Your Office (with Steve Johnson)

    Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with Steve Johnson — the first instructor hired at Pragmatic Marketing and now CEO of Product Growth Leaders — to explore why AI should be a “yes, and,” not an “instead of,” for product managers. Drawing on decades of training an estimated 40,000 product people, Steve makes the case that judgment and firsthand customer experience are what will keep product managers employed, and why so much of product work drifted from solving problems to writing feature specs. 📌 Topics Covered: • Steve’s path from programmer to sales engineer to top seller to product manager — and joining Pragmatic Marketing as its first instructor in the 90s • Why teams need a playbook • Training isn’t transformation • AI is a “yes, and,” not an “instead of” • How product management shifted from a business role to a delivery role • Who to hire into product, domain knowledge over technology, and why PMs who code still need to ask “where were you supposed to be?” • Why ProductCamp works: most product managers don’t work with other product managers — plus throwing your first version away and “nothing important happens in the office”, revised to “little is learned in your office” 📚 Referenced: • “Strong Opinions, Loosely Held” — Marty Cagan, SVPG: https://www.svpg.com/strong-opinions-loosely-held/ • The Challenger Sale — Matthew Dixon and Brent Adamson: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/309666/the-challenger-sale-by-matthew-dixon/ • Manifesto for Agile Software Development: https://agilemanifesto.org/ • The Scrum Guide: https://scrumguides.org/scrum-guide.html -------------------------------------------------- 🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST STEVE JOHNSON: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sjohnson717/ • Website: https://pgl.fyi (Product Growth Leaders) -------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS: • Allison Herbert: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42 - Website: https://allisonherbert.com • Dave Mathias: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1 - Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com -------------------------------------------------- 📧 GET IN TOUCH: Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest? Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com! 👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more conversations on the human side of product management.

    Little Is Learned in Your Office (with Steve Johnson)

  4. Oct 3

    Customer Interviews: How to Do It Regularly and Effectively (with Kevin Palmstein)

    Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with Twin Cities product coach and Box2Box Product founder Kevin Palmstein to unpack why talking to customers is still the non-negotiable fundamentals talk — even (especially) when every other session is about AI — and what it takes to do customer interviews regularly and effectively. 📌 Topics Covered: • Kevin’s path into product: bootstrap startup generalist → CaringBridge interview with the Pragmatic Marketing placemat → consulting and coaching founders • Why he gave ProductCamp Twin Cities “Customer Interviews: How to Do It Regularly and Effectively” as an intentionally non-AI talk • The Sweden oak trees story: insular room thinking vs. looking outside your context before you decide • Why PMs still avoid interviews (time, fear, lack of practice, sales/CS gatekeeping) — and treating interviews as a visible product output • Ideal practice: one-on-one conversations, shut up and listen, no demos/system diagrams/sales pitches mid-interview • Users vs. buyers in B2B, shadowing on site visits, and relationship follow-through after you hang up (not gift-card transactions) -------------------------------------------------- 🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST KEVIN PALMSTEIN: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinpalmstein/ • Website: https://box2boxproduct.com -------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS: • Allison Herbert: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42 - Website: https://allisonherbert.com • Dave Mathias: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1 - X / Twitter: https://x.com/davemathias - Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com -------------------------------------------------- 📧 GET IN TOUCH: Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest? Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com! 👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more conversations on the human side of product management.

    Customer Interviews: How to Do It Regularly and Effectively (with Kevin Palmstein)

  5. Sep 26

    The Only Reason a Career Ends Is Deciding Not to Participate (with Cam Gross)

    Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with Twin Cities product leader Cam Gross to unpack why he started Applied AI’s AI in Product Meetup from pure fear of being left on the sidelines — and what career transitions, networking, and hands-on building look like for product pros in the AI era. 📌 Topics Covered: • Cam’s path from a decade-plus in sales and account management into product — and the “10-year bootcamp” of asking better questions • Founding Applied AI’s AI in Product Meetup (with Arun Bachu and Susan Grieve) when ChatGPT hit • ProductCamp Twin Cities 2025: career transitions with Beth-Alison Berggren and John DeBauche (Never Search Alone job search council) • Why networking beats blind LinkedIn apply — and why a real conversation matters more as AI floods hiring • Hungry, humble, smart as a hiring (and candidate) frame • Hands-on AI practice: tell the story of something you built, not just prompts you ran 📚 Referenced: • Never Search Alone: The Job Seeker's Playbook (Phyl Terry) — https://www.neversearchalone.org/the-book • The Ideal Team Player (Patrick Lencioni) — https://www.tablegroup.com/product/ideal-team-player/ -------------------------------------------------- 🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST CAM GROSS: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camerongross/ -------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS: • Allison Herbert: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42 - Website: https://allisonherbert.com • Dave Mathias: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1 - X / Twitter: https://x.com/davemathias - Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com -------------------------------------------------- 📧 GET IN TOUCH: Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest? Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com! 👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more conversations on the human side of product management.

    The Only Reason a Career Ends Is Deciding Not to Participate (with Cam Gross)

  6. Sep 19

    Why Isn't Everyone Talking About Positioning? (with Erin Miska)

    Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with Twin Cities product-turned-PMM consultant Erin Miska to unpack why positioning is still the quiet foundation of everything you ship and sell — and why product people should care as much as marketers do. 📌 Topics Covered: • Erin’s path from technical writer to founding PM at Jamf to independent PMM • ProductCamp Twin Cities: “Why Isn’t Everyone Talking About Positioning?” • April Dunford’s interdependent positioning pieces — category, alternatives, differentiation • Who should own positioning (spoiler: not marketing alone) and how to start when you’re in-house • Champion-first positioning vs. later-stage objection handling across buyer roles • When positioning drifts — and how AI-assisted sales-call review helps you notice -------------------------------------------------- 🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST ERIN MISKA: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinmiska/ • Website: https://erinmiska.com -------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS: • Allison Herbert: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42 - Website: https://allisonherbert.com • Dave Mathias: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1 - X / Twitter: https://x.com/davemathias - Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com -------------------------------------------------- 📧 GET IN TOUCH: Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest? Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com! 👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more conversations on the human side of product management.

    Why Isn't Everyone Talking About Positioning? (with Erin Miska)

  7. Sep 12

    Ship the Feel Before the Feature (with Matt Pacyga)

    Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with Twin Cities product leader and community builder Matt Pacyga to unpack vibe coding as play — shipping the feel before the feature — and how that same experimental muscle built Innovate.mn and a satirical merch experiment along the way. 📌 Topics Covered: • ProductCamp Twin Cities “Vibe Coding: Ship the Feel Before the Feature” — play first, outcomes over feature lists • AI compression of product roles, context windows, and why not to blindly trust the model • Poundo / Open to Brand: a LinkedIn joke that became a real agentic e-commerce build • Innovate.mn: capturing “the energy is the product” with free public brainstorming sessions • Always be building — experiment in public, even when the tools keep changing -------------------------------------------------- 🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST MATT PACYGA: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattpacyga/ • Email: matt@innovate.mn • Innovate.mn: https://innovate.mn • Open to Brand: https://opentobrand.com -------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS: • Allison Herbert: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42 - Website: https://allisonherbert.com • Dave Mathias: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1 - X / Twitter: https://x.com/davemathias - Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com -------------------------------------------------- 📩 GET IN TOUCH: Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest? Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com! 👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more conversations on the human side of product management.

    Ship the Feel Before the Feature (with Matt Pacyga)

  8. Sep 5

    Call It Trust, Not Influence (with Trevor Acy)

    Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with product coach and community builder Trevor Acy to explore what it takes to bring product thinking to a place the tech map skips. Trevor came to product through B2B marketing, then moved home to Mississippi to help founders and teams who don't get a flywheel handed to them. The through-line is trust: small non-disruptive wins instead of "influence without authority," and why AI only gets you to the wrong thing faster if you skip the human discovery. 📌 Topics Covered: • Inventing product vocabulary and connections where there is no tech flywheel • Connecting Jackson founders with university and meetup talent • Reframing influence without authority as trust, earned one checker move at a time • Why AI speeds delivery and can speed building something nobody wants • Where to put the time AI actually saves, instead of filling the plate again -------------------------------------------------- 🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST TREVOR ACY: • Trevor Acy - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevoracy/ -------------------------------------------------- 🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS: • Allison Herbert: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42 - Website: https://allisonherbert.com • Dave Mathias: - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1 - X / Twitter: https://x.com/davemathias - Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com -------------------------------------------------- 📩 GET IN TOUCH: Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest? Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com! 👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more conversations on the human side of product management.

    Call It Trust, Not Influence (with Trevor Acy)
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About

ProductCamp Conversations is a podcast for curious product people. It is hosted by Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias, thinking out loud, with an occasional guest, about the parts of product that don't fit on a roadmap: community, the human element, and the work that happens from casual conversations with other product people. We are Allison and Dave, product friends, that met at a ProductCamp in 2022. As people that enjoy both attending and participating in the ProductCamp community we decided to create a podcast related to the amazingness of this community. Maybe we will see you at a ProductCamp sometime soon, but in the meantime take the opportunity to indulge in some ProductCamp Conversations. Subscribe on your favorite podcast player to get new episodes when they come out. Got feedback or a potential guest? Contact us at productcampconversations@gmail.com.

Information

  • Creator
    Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    14
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias
  • Show Website
    ProductCamp Conversations