Unfolding: a circular economy podcast

Wayne Hubbard and Iain Gulland
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Welcome to UNFOLDING - A circular economy Podcast hosted Iain Gulland (former Zero Watse Scotland CEO) and Wayne Hubbard (former ReLondon CEO) exploring the current state of circularity progress and how we can all be part of accelerating the transition and take action to combat linear lock in. This is a podcast for policy makers, businesses, and citizens. In the first series of episodes we will be focusing on the upcoming COP31 in Turkiye in November, where the circular economy has been highlighted as a one of the core focus areas for action in the battle to reduce climate emissions. Iain and Wayne will be talking to a range of experts with knowledge of the COP process –who will give us their take on how national governments can incorporate circular economy principles into climate mitigation strategies, as well as the role of cities, business and governments. In November we will be going to COP31 in Antalya to try and influence the outcome!

  1. 23h ago

    Episode 13 - Beatriz Luz

    Unfolding Episode 13: Transition brokers and the circular economy in Brazil, with Beatriz Luz Beatriz Luz, President of the Brazilian Institute for Circular Economy (Ibec) and founder of Exchange 4 Change Brasil, joins Iain Gulland and Wayne Hubbard to discuss what Brazil has learned from a decade of circular economy coalitions, and what she wants from COP31 in Antalya. Beatriz says the circular economy scales only through a multi-sector ecosystem with an orchestrator, that it must create social value, and that COP31 should present it as a competitive economic model. Guest: Beatriz Luz, President of the Brazilian Institute for Circular Economy and founder of Exchange 4 Change Brasil. Hosts: Iain Gulland, former Chief Executive of Zero Waste Scotland, past President of ACR+ and Chair of the Circular Economy Institute's Strategic Advisory Committee, and Wayne Hubbard, former CEO of ReLondon, Circular Economy Advisor, speaker and trustee. IN THE CONVERSATION - Beatriz says her circular journey began in 2014, selling sugarcane-based bioplastic, which taught her that technology needs a full value chain, a business model and someone to coordinate both. - Beatriz says nobody changes the system alone and describes a "coalition of believers", an approach she learned from the Dutch. - Brazil and Europe: she says the essence is the same, but solutions need "tropicalizing". If a model has no social value, she says, it is not circular economy. Reuse and repair can create jobs. - Beatriz says the point is consuming differently, not less, and sees scope for a circular commodity trade. - COP30 and COP31: Beatriz describes circularity's path into the COP text, and says Brazil has put it in its NDC. She wants more countries to follow. - Transition brokers: Beatriz describes the orchestrator role, drawing on Jacqueline Cramer's work. Wayne asks whether the Istanbul platform could act as a global broker. - Beatriz's circular brick from mining waste: she says it needs new pricing and alignment with traditional brick makers, or it could bankrupt them. - Magic policy wand: a continuing North and South exchange between transition brokers, who she invites to Manaus after COP31. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 03:26 Beatriz's circular economy journey 06:08 From passionate people to systems change 09:38 Is Brazil different from Europe? 13:49 Social value in the circular economy 19:03 Consumption, trade and the Global South 24:15 Lessons from COP30 29:04 The Istanbul platform and governance 31:11 What is a transition broker? 34:24 Orchestration at international level 37:15 A new economic narrative for COP31 42:45 Magic policy wand 45:31 Wayne and Iain reflect on the conversation REFERENCED How Network Governance Powers the Circular Economy (Jacqueline Cramer) https://circulareconomy.europa.eu/platform/en/knowledge/how-network-governance-powers-circular-economy-ten-guiding-principles-building-circular-economy-based-dutch COP30's first circular economy day (Circular Online) https://www.circularonline.co.uk/news/cop30-marks-first-ever-circular-economy-day-as-global-climate-talks-intensify/ Like, comment and subscribe. Suggest guests or send questions to unfolding@unfoldcc.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UnfoldingCircular About Unfolding: exploring circularity progress and how we can accelerate the transition and combat linear lock-in. Series one leads to COP31.

  2. 2d ago

    Episode 12 - Shalini Goyal Bhalla

    Unfolding Episode 12: The circular economy from India and the Global South, with Shalini Goyal Bhalla Shalini Goyal Bhalla, Founder and Managing Director of the International Council for Circular Economy (ICCE), joins Iain Gulland and Wayne Hubbard to discuss what the circular economy looks like from India and the wider Global South, and what she wants to see from COP31 in Antalya. Shalini says many circular practices are already part of daily life in India, that the Global South needs a shift in production where the Global North needs a shift in consumption, and that emerging economies should have an equal say in practical solutions. Guest: Shalini Goyal Bhalla, Founder and Managing Director of the International Council for Circular Economy and author of Circular Economy: (Re)Emerging Movement. Hosts: Iain Gulland, former Chief Executive of Zero Waste Scotland, past President of ACR+ and Chair of the Circular Economy Institute's Strategic Advisory Committee, and Wayne Hubbard, former CEO of ReLondon, Circular Economy Advisor, speaker and trustee. IN THE CONVERSATION - Shalini says she met the term circular economy in 2018 while working on a zero waste schools project in New York, and saw it as something India has long practised. - The (Re)Emerging Movement: Shalini compares yoga with the gym and sun drying with tumble dryers, and says Indians are forgetting these habits as incomes rise. - Global North and Global South: Shalini says the Global North needs to cut consumption and rebuild repair, while the Global South needs investment in industrial change such as eco-design and traceability. Her example is a mixer grinder that could not be repaired in London but was fixed cheaply in India. - Wayne says UK tax rules reward buying new goods and charge VAT on repair. - Shalini says ICCE has formed a Global South coalition with partners in Latin America, Africa and South East Asia to give emerging economies a common voice at COP31. - What drives circularity in India: Shalini points to waste management, climate commitments and sustainable infrastructure, with leadership from national missions such as Swachh Bharat Abhiyan and competition between states. - Magic policy wand: an equal say for emerging economies, with solutions built around local issues, and the idea of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam, that the earth is one family. - Wayne and Iain discuss unlearning post-war linear habits and what rental televisions can teach about repair. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 03:04 Meet Shalini Goyal Bhalla 04:10 Shalini's circular economy journey 08:39 The (Re)Emerging Movement 11:31 Global South voices at COP31 16:33 How the circular economy differs between North and South 24:47 What drives circularity in India 31:23 Leadership, Swachh Bharat and the states 34:24 Magic policy wand 41:08 Wayne and Iain reflect on the conversation 45:17 The post-war consumer society and unlearning 48:55 Rental televisions and repair REFERENCED Circular Economy: (Re)Emerging Movement by Shalini Goyal Bhalla https://ic-ce.com/circular-economy-re-emerging-movement/ Like, comment and subscribe. Suggest guests or send questions to unfolding@unfoldcc.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UnfoldingCircular About Unfolding: exploring circularity progress and how we can accelerate the transition and combat linear lock-in. Series one leads to COP31.

  3. Oct 29

    Episode 11 - Dr Jack Barrie

    Dr Jack Barrie, lead author of the World Economic Forum report The Future of Materials Systems, joins Iain Gulland and Wayne Hubbard to discuss how geopolitical tension is changing the way countries treat materials, and what that means for the circular economy and COP31 in Antalya.   Jack argues that shared material flow accounting and metrics should come before targets, and that coalitions of countries and companies can make progress while the multilateral system stalls.   Guest: Jack Barrie, global circular economy advisor who has worked at the World Economic Forum, Chatham House and Zero Waste Scotland. Hosts: Iain Gulland, former Chief Executive of Zero Waste Scotland, past President of ACR+ and Chair of the Circular Economy Institute's Strategic Advisory Committee, and Wayne Hubbard, former CEO of ReLondon, Circular Economy Advisor, speaker and trustee.   IN THE CONVERSATION - The WEF report: Jack describes a record 226 critical mineral trade restrictions in 2025, up from 82 in 2024, and why businesses now see circularity as a security measure. - "Coalitions of the doing": why Jack says plurilateral groups, for example on data traceability standards, can make progress when the multilateral system is declining. - Is COP the place for this? Jack says he is more cynical about the proposed 15% circular material use target, and wants a coalition to build metrics for measuring material flows first, using the Paris Agreement's transparency framework as a template. - Cities, regions and whole-of-government approaches, and why Jack says trade matters: onshoring circular activity can raise prices where a country lacks scale. - Materials in the just transition agenda and competition for critical minerals. - The case for an international materials data hub, and why Jack says trade codes do not capture refurbished goods. - Wayne and Iain reflect that the destination is a low carbon metals and materials economy, with the circular economy as the pathway.   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 00:56 Jack's work on the circular economy 02:17 The WEF Future of Materials Systems report 03:37 Geopolitics and material value chains 08:01 Is COP the place for this? 11:43 The COP action agenda 13:18 Why Jack is cynical about COP31 targets 16:25 Governance, cities and whole-of-government 20:46 Materials and the just transition 22:28 Competing for materials 27:52 The international materials data hub 32:41 Trade and the circular economy 37:09 Magic policy wand 40:29 Wayne and Iain reflect on the conversation   REFERENCED The Future of Materials Systems (World Economic Forum, 2026) https://www.weforum.org/publications/the-future-of-materials-systems-cooperation-opportunities-in-a-multipolar-world   COP31 materials proposals (Climate Home News) https://www.climatechangenews.com/2026/09/29/cop31-must-aim-higher-to-cut-emissions-from-the-use-of-materials/   Like, comment and subscribe. Suggest guests or send questions to unfolding@unfoldcc.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UnfoldingCircular   About Unfolding: exploring circularity progress and how we can accelerate the transition and combat linear lock-in. Series one leads to COP31.

  4. Oct 27

    Episode 10 - Alison McRae

    Alison McRae, Senior Director at Glasgow Chamber of Commerce, joins Iain Gulland and Wayne Hubbard to discuss the Chamber's role as host city chamber at COP26 and what followed, ahead of COP31 in Antalya in November. Alison argues that the circular economy needs a place at the top of national governments, and that cities and regions need freedom and enabling conditions to act. Alison's asks for COP31 include a global effort on design and city-region demonstrators. Guest: Alison McRae, Senior Director at Glasgow Chamber of Commerce, a non-executive director of the British Chambers of Commerce and a Zero Waste Scotland board member. Hosts: Iain Gulland, former Chief Executive of Zero Waste Scotland, past President of ACR+ and Chair of the Circular Economy Institute's Strategic Advisory Committee, and Wayne Hubbard, former CEO of ReLondon, Circular Economy Advisor, speaker and trustee. IN THE CONVERSATION - Circular Glasgow's start in 2015, and the Chamber's four-part COP26 plan: policy and influence, business engagement, skills and workforce, and international trade. Alison says the most useful discussions happened outside the negotiations. - Why Alison says business was more engaged at Glasgow's COP than any earlier one, and the legacy that followed: the Congress of Business and Glasgow Climate Week. - Alison's suggestion for COP31: the circular economy tends to end up "in a division within a division" in national governments and should be an integrated ambition across the full cabinet. Alison cites global circularity of 6.9%, the UK at 7.5% and a value gap of €25.4 trillion a year, almost 31% of global GDP. - Cities and regions: a place-based approach, regional devolution, a circular economy Innovation Accelerators model, and enabling conditions such as investment and procurement. - Design, trade, and Glasgow as a demonstrator city. - Wayne and Iain compare COP26 experiences and ask what circular economy visibility in Antalya might look like. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 02:40 Introduction to Alison 04:25 Circular Glasgow 06:07 COP26 08:56 The Chambers’ business strategy for COP26 10:46 Work with young people during and after COP26 12:17 The excitement of COP26 14:16 Legacy 17:58 Circular Economy and net zero 18:56 How can COP31 make sure circular economy is relevant? 21:08 It’s not good enough to just have passionate people 23:20 Role of cities 28:49 Enabling environment 32:55 International trade 34:03 Design 35:15 How can cities collaborate in the circular economy? 40:50 Have things changed since COP26? 43:21 Magic policy wand 46:08 Wayne and Iain reflect on the conversation REFERENCED Glasgow Chambers of Commerce COP26 Legacy Report https://glasgowchamberofcommerce.com/media/618516/glasgow-s-cop26-legacy-a-business-perspective-final-version.pdf Circularity Gap Report 2026 (6.9% is from the previous edition) https://circulareconomy.europa.eu/platform/sites/default/files/2026-04/The%20Circularity%20Gap%20Report%202026%20%281%29.pdf UK circularity figure https://circularity-gap.world/united-kingdom Like, comment and subscribe. Suggest guests or send questions to unfolding@unfoldcc.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UnfoldingCircular

  5. Oct 21

    Episode 9 - Elif Berrak Taşyürek

    Iain and Wayne talk to Elif Berrak Taşyürek, Head of the EU Single Market and Green Deal for the Turkish Government. We explore the significance of the circular economy in Turkey, particularly in relation to COP 31. We delve into Turkey's initiatives and policies aimed at aligning with EU standards, the role of trade in facilitating circular economy practices, and the importance of resource efficiency.  Elif discusses the enablers and challenges of transitioning to a circular economy, emphasizing the need for technological innovation, skills development, and digitalization. She highlights the importance of global cooperation, particularly in supporting developing countries. Iain and Wayne then reflect on the significance of the upcoming COP31 in Turkey and their hope for an upstream focus. Chapters 00:00 Introduction 03:03 Introduction to Elif 05:37 Why circular economy matters to Turkey 07:38 A further 7% reduction of emissions with EU ce policies 09:47 The effect of EU ce policies on Turkey 11:00 Is ce a business opportunity? 12:37 EU policy - effect on value chain 14:08 Trade as a vehicle for circularity 16:43 Transition enabler pathway and global south 20:11 The circular economy not only about waste management. 24:25 Turkey's leadership in zero waste agenda 26:50 COP31 and the circular transition 32:35 Elif's final thoughts 36.35 That was amazing! 41:06 We need to reimagine the system 42:47 High hopes for COP31

  6. Oct 19

    Episode 8 - Janez Potočnik

    Iain and Wayne talk to Janez Potočnik, Co-Chair of UNEP’s International Resource Panel, partner at Systemiq and former EU Commissioner for the Environment. They discuss the evolution and significance of the circular economy, particularly in the context of COP 31. Janez shares his journey as a former EU commissioner and his role in promoting circular economy principles. The discussion highlights the need for a global perspective on resource management, the impact of material consumption on climate change, and the importance of integrating demand-side solutions into environmental policies. They discuss the urgent need to decouple well-being from economic growth, emphasizing that true progress should focus on societal health rather than mere GDP. They explore the circular economy as a viable solution to achieve this decoupling, while addressing the challenges of implementation and the necessity for a shift in governance and market measures. Janez also highlights the importance of demand-side measures and the ethical implications of resource use, ultimately advocating for a holistic approach to sustainability that prioritises human needs and environmental integrity.   Chapters   00:00 Intro 02:54 Intro to Janez 04:55 Janez talks about his background 06:11 It’s the economy stupid 06:36 Genesis of the first Circular Economy Package 09:43 How the EU Circular Economy packaged helped wider policy makers 11:40 Global circular economy 13:29 The material impacts of electrification 16.44 Systemic rebound effect – if you’re only going to watch one chapter watch this one 23:53 IRP 2024 Outlook report  26:05 Global equality 29:35 How can we make money out of circular economy? 37:37 Integrating material and circular economy policy at COP31 38:32 Consumption? 47:58 Optimism, geo-politics, and circularity 54:17 Janez’s final message for COP31 55:11 Iain and Wayne decompress 56:30 The switch from fossil to materials (metals and minerals) based economy – where are all these materials coming from? 1:02:11 The circular economy manifesto? 1:03:49 Tending the garden – getting the incentives right to support circularity 1:04:59 Financing the circular economy

  7. Oct 11

    Episode 7 Libby Peake

    Iain and Wayne chat to Libby Peake from the Green Alliance and they delve into the critical themes surrounding the circular economy in the context of COP 31. They  discuss the importance of elevating the materials agenda, the challenges of communicating the concept of circular economy to policymakers, and the significant role it plays in addressing climate change and biodiversity loss. They also explore the unique challenges faced by the Global South in adopting circular economy practices and emphasize the need for demand reduction and equitable resource distribution. The discussion highlights the intersection of circular economy with electrification and the importance of setting high-level targets to guide sustainable resource use. In this conversation, the speakers discuss the critical role of transition brokers in the circular economy, the growing frustration with the throwaway society, and the need for better data and measurement. They emphasize the importance of national and local bodies to drive the transition and the potential of the circular economy to be recognized at COP31. And Libby has a killer stat…! The UN report that Libby talks about: https://www.unep.org/resources/Global-Resource-Outlook-2024 Chapters  00:00 Intro to the podcast 02:53 Intro to our guest 04:30 The political difficulties we can encounter  08:30 Circular economy vs waste management  11:36 Libby’s killer stat 13:54 Global South / Global North 18:00 How can circular economy be framed globally? 22.10 Consumption emissions vs raw material extraction 25:11 Demand reduction & electrification 26:49 Iain’s holiday reflections on electrification, critical raw materials, and demand reduction 31:06 Tripple planetary crisis 34:24 Who are the transition brokers 36:08 we are taking away people’s frustration at the way the world works 38:27 Who is measuring the metrics? 39:36 A Resources equivalent of the Climate Change Committee 43:52 COP31 Policy wand 46:17 Are you hopeful? 49:21 Iain and Wayne chat about metrics 56:05 Upstream baby!

  8. Oct 5

    Eposode 6 Jocelyn Blériot

    In this episode, Iain and Wayne chat with Jocelyn (Joss) Blériot, Executive Lead, Policy & Institutions at the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, and discuss the evolving role of the circular economy in climate discussions, particularly at COP events. They explore the progress made in integrating circular economy principles into national climate strategies, the challenges of implementation, and the importance of systemic change. The conversation highlights the role of cities in driving circular initiatives, the Foundation's focus areas, and the need for stronger business engagement and policy recommendations to support circular practices. They explore the need for demand reduction, the economic incentives that hinder the transition to a circular economy, and the importance of a unified business voice in advocating for sustainable practices. The conversation also highlights the challenges of measuring circularity and the necessity for businesses to adopt bolder strategies to mitigate risks in their supply chains.  Chapters 00:00 Opening 02:40 Introduction to Joss 04:10 How the circular economy relates to COPs 07:10 Implementation through sectoral focus 08:39 Electrification and the materials economy 09:59 The politics of consumption emissions 14:00 Sectoral opportunities and upstream vs downstream 18:30 Role of cities and regions  22:28 The Foundations focus at COP31 25:06 The cost and incentive structures and systemic enablers  27:12 The need for advocacy  28.34 Who are the champions? 30:28 Triumvirate of significant reports 32:20 Voice of business and the framing of circular economy 40:20 Joss’ COP31 wish list 43:46 Iain and Wayne’s post chat chat 45:19 Upstream vs downstream and Kevin sees a fox 47:50 What we have learned and the absence of a unifying narrative? 52:00 The importance of a circular business voice 54:15 Metrics!

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Welcome to UNFOLDING - A circular economy Podcast hosted Iain Gulland (former Zero Watse Scotland CEO) and Wayne Hubbard (former ReLondon CEO) exploring the current state of circularity progress and how we can all be part of accelerating the transition and take action to combat linear lock in. This is a podcast for policy makers, businesses, and citizens. In the first series of episodes we will be focusing on the upcoming COP31 in Turkiye in November, where the circular economy has been highlighted as a one of the core focus areas for action in the battle to reduce climate emissions. Iain and Wayne will be talking to a range of experts with knowledge of the COP process –who will give us their take on how national governments can incorporate circular economy principles into climate mitigation strategies, as well as the role of cities, business and governments. In November we will be going to COP31 in Antalya to try and influence the outcome!

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