Inside Blackwater, who carries the cost of war? Former New Zealand SAS soldier and Blackwater contractor Barrie "Baz" Rice joins international human rights lawyer Bob Amsterdam on World on Trial to discuss the Iraq War, private military contractors, and what happens when accountability breaks down in a global conflict. Drawing on his book We Were Blackwater, Barrie shares a firsthand account of violence, survival, and the distance between a mission’s promises and its reality. Barrie traces his journey from New Zealand’s East Coast to special forces and the streets of Baghdad. He describes helping establish Blackwater’s commercial operation, working without adequate equipment, and witnessing conduct he believes turned Iraqi civilians against the contractors who claimed to be there to help. The conversation turns to the killing of four Blackwater colleagues in Fallujah and the harder, more aggressive mindset Barrie says followed. He reflects on the suffering of Iraqi civilians, his growing reliance on alcohol, and the moment survival began to feel like a matter of time. Leaving Iraq did not mean leaving the war behind. Longtime friends who don’t always agree, Bob and Barrie also debate military intervention in Libya and Iran, American foreign policy, and the role of private forces in modern warfare. Their conversation raises uncomfortable questions about international law, the rule of law, and who answers for the human consequences of war. Follow World on Trial with Bob Amsterdam on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts for conversations about human rights, the rule of law, and the people at the center of controversial cases. Content advisory: Contains strong language and descriptions of graphic violence, civilian suffering, alcohol misuse, and suicide. Key topics discussed From New Zealand SAS to private security: Barrie’s Māori background, special forces training, and transition into close protection. Building Blackwater’s commercial operation: his account of arriving in Baghdad, inadequate equipment, and the pressures of working for private security companies. The Iraq occupation and insurgency: Barrie’s view of how coalition decisions and contractor behavior undermined trust among Iraqi civilians. Rules of engagement and accountability: his description of permissive practices, reckless conduct, and the consequences for civilians and other contractors. The Fallujah killings: losing four colleagues and the shift in mindset he says changed how contractors operated. The personal cost of war: civilian suffering, escalating drinking, emotional strain, and the difficulty of returning to family life. Foreign policy and international law: Bob and Barrie’s disagreement over Iran, reflections on Libya, and questions about accountability for private forces. Episode chapters 00:00 Highlights and introductions 02:13 From New Zealand to the SAS 07:55 Arriving in Iraq and building Blackwater’s commercial operation 12:40 The occupation and the growing insurgency 17:37 Rules of engagement and disillusionment 23:23 Fallujah, lost colleagues, and the civilian cost 34:58 Drinking, survival, and bringing the war home 42:32 Libya, Iran, and the rules of war
