David Webb talks with David Richardson, former acting FEMA administrator and author of Texas Flood 4 July 2025, about the federal programs that keep people building where the water comes back. Richardson explains why FEMA’s flood maps are actuarial tools, not safety tools, and how the National Flood Insurance Program — in place since 1969 — turned a limited backstop into a nationwide subsidy for coastal and floodplain development. Taxpayers far from the water pay so premiums stay cheap. Developers make billions. When the flood hits, the loss is someone else’s problem. He ties that system to places like North Topsail Beach and to the July 4, 2025 Guadalupe River flood that killed more than 130 people, including children at Camp Mystic. He also gives his account of the response: coordinating with Texas emergency manager Nim Kidd, Coast Guard rescues, why he stayed in Washington, and his decision to override DHS’s $100,000 contract rule so aid could move. They close on what would actually change the incentives — private insurance, a blended model for people already there versus new construction — and why FEMA, Congress, and the FEMA Review Council keep pointing at each other instead of fixing it. Transcript David Webb:But let’s get a little bit more into the weeds. FEMA’s outdated flood maps and FEMA’s billion-dollar gravy train. David Richardson, former acting FEMA director, joining me now. And David, as we hear, the late storm of late storms about to come on shore in the Gulf seems an appropriate title and topic. But thanks for joining me this morning. David Richardson:David, thanks for having me. I love your show, by the way. You’re doing great things for the American people. David Webb:I appreciate that. With guys like you to help me and what you’ve sent me, that’s how we help people. And I really mean that. Let’s dive in because your recent op-ed on FEMA’s billion-dollar gravy train exposes so much right down to the outdated flood map. So help us understand this more. David Richardson:Yes, so I’ll talk about the flood maps first because the flood maps are tied to something called the National Flood Insurance Program. And the National Flood Insurance Program is designed to essentially rebuild structures in the floodplain after they get flattened or really from flood damage by hurricanes or any other type of flood. And essentially, it’s a subsidized program. And by subsidized, I mean everybody across the country is paying so that people living in the coastline and in floodplains can have cheap insurance. It’s changed a little bit over the years. But in general, it’s the same program we’ve had since I think it’s 1969. And it was never intended to do that. So it was never intended for communities to pop up in places like North Topsail Beach, North Carolina. Where I lived for a while, which is essentially a sandbar. And every time there’s a hurricane, the structures get knocked down and the National Flood Insurance Program assists in rebuilding them. All of these coastal communities, for the most part, have popped up since the National Flood Insurance Program. And here’s the deal on the flood maps. The flood maps support the National Flood Insurance Program. And the way they do that is there are lines drawn in these Floodplains, and they dictate how high the premiums are. And FEMA will tell you that the flood maps are for actuary purposes only, and they are not predictive. They have nothing to do with safety and precaution. So that’s kind of how the flood maps work. They’re not ideal. There’s better ways to do it. But FEMA chooses to stick with the old way of doing it, and that’s partially—I know you’re familiar with the Camp Mystic and the children that died there and the children that died along the Guadalupe River. Between the National Flood Insurance Program and the flood maps, we’re allowed to build in the floodplain because of that. But the key point is they have nothing to do with safety or precaution. It’s all actuary information for insurance. So that’s kind of the story on the flood maps. David Webb:Yeah, so the name doesn’t really fit the reality, I guess. And by the way, David’s book is Texas Flood, Power, Money, Politics, History, Bureaucracy, and Tragedy. Picture the Texas flag on there. I’m reminded, David, and it was a tragedy in a sense. I remember when the Trinity flooded in the 90s in Houston. There was a house floating down the river on fire because it was on the banks of the Trinity. You know, just one of those areas that you didn’t think till you saw the news roll of it. But these areas that are being built up, infills and, you know, all of this. I mean, people are making, I don’t know, I call it bad decisions. Am I wrong? David Richardson:No, you’re not. Number one, people are making billions of dollars by building in the floodplains and selling condominiums and what have you. It’s not a prudent decision, and it wouldn’t be allowable—not allowable, it wouldn’t be feasible unless you had the National Flood Insurance Program that started in 1969. And by the way, one of the architects of the program, there were some senators at the time that said this is going to backfire. Instead of simply insuring the structures that were currently in the floodplain, it’s going to cause a building boom in the floodplain because when the floods do come, the damage is going to be, ding, ding, somebody else’s problem. And that’s exactly what happened. David Webb:Oh, God. You know, the minute you say Senate, I just—something I read—the hairs on the back of my head raise up. My guest, David Richardson, former acting FEMA administrator. Let’s dive into more of the topic areas that we want to hit on here. And again, the book Texas Flood, it’s available wherever books are sold. It’s an inside account of disaster response, the bureaucracy, the leadership decisions made. As you put it, under extraordinary pressure. And it is pressure. When these events, these tragic events fold out, communities are uprooted in so many ways. Not just people, not just property, even animals. Agriculture, wild animals, so much is in this mix. And yes, we often think of that scene, the reporter, the storm, the wind blowing. We see that. But what’s really going on here is the destruction of so many lives in so many ways. Let’s go into that a little bit more. What happens? And, you know, Texas, Texas flood. Use Texas as that example. David Richardson:Yeah. So in Texas Flood for July 2025, I describe that. The conditions that caused that flash flood. And there have been five or six of those in American history. And what happened there was a storm settled over the hills of Texas. And it got stuck there for reasons that we don’t need to get into, but it’s not climate change. The primary cause was the storm that stalled over the hills of Texas. And then what happened was there was potentially some failed warning systems. And there was also some talk about the weather predictions never being perfect. Well, I’m not telling anybody anything new, but warning systems are never perfect. And the weather forecast is never perfect. And in that case, there’s a bill right now on the president’s desk. I think it’s HR 7022. Called the Camp Mystic Alert Bill. It addresses one of the proximate causes, but it does not get into the deep cause, as we just discussed, of actually building in the floodplain, which is allowed by two FEMA programs, the National Flood Insurance Program, as well as the flood mapping. So what happened there was I got a call about 12 in the afternoon on 4 July while I was driving to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania with my two boys. And it essentially outlined that what had happened about somewhere between 1 and 4 in the morning, that flood had—correction, thunderstorm stalled out and was causing mass flooding. I think it was like three months’ worth of rain fell within like 72 hours. So it was massive flooding. And they were in the floodplain. And partially the reason they were there, as I’ve… Get full access to Pope of FEMA at www.popeoffema.com/subscribe
