In the Sandbox

Hub4Innovation
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find out more at Hub4Innovation.org

  1. 10H AGO

    In the Sandbox Season 3 : Episode 8 | Benj Miller, Founder of System & Soul

    Hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups interview business strategist and System and Soul founder Benj Miller about building organizations that balance effective systems with human-centered culture. Benj traces his entrepreneurial start to resourcefulness and a desire to work independently, then describes a pivotal identity crisis and coaching conversation centered on three questions—who am I, why do I matter, and who is my audience—leading him to ground identity in his Heavenly Father. He connects identity to leadership behaviors, warning that fragile identity produces defensiveness, control, and fear, and explains how identity statements help leaders face failure as events rather than personal labels. Benj emphasizes investing in multiple coaches, engineering boundaries to avoid founders “building their own prison,” and defining success beyond society’s metrics, using a “front burner” metaphor for seasonal priorities. For executing big ideas, he advocates collaboration, hiring for execution, market validation, and securing prepaying customers to fund and prove demand. 00:00 Meet Benj Miller 02:18 How He Helped a Church 03:06 Entrepreneurial Spark 04:59 Crisis and Inflection 06:44 Three Identity Questions 09:18 Identity Drives Change 11:04 Why Leaders Need Coaches 13:18 Fragile Identity Pitfalls 15:33 Stop Leading With Resume 18:33 Walking In Regulated 20:35 Enneagram and Closing Banter 21:22 Failure Without Shame 22:49 Redefining Success Seasons 25:19 Retreats And Recenter 27:19 Sweet Spot Family Wins 29:11 From Ideas To Execution 33:14 Risk Fears And Boundaries 37:08 Enneagram And Lightning Round 41:32 Where To Find Benj 41:53 Prayer And Farewell

    43 min

  2. MAY 13

    In the Sandbox Season 3 : Episode 7 with Matt Miofsky from The Gathering

    On the In the Sandbox podcast, hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups interview Matt Miofsky, founding pastor of The Gathering in St. Louis (launched around 2006) and author of The Methodist Book of Daily Prayer. Miofsky describes starting a church in a declining city and fusing passionate, relevant worship and strong ministries with a more open theology as both opportunity and risk. He recounts personally struggling in the first 18 months—overwork, strain on marriage and family, possible depression—and nearly quitting before a district superintendent helped him pursue healthier habits, mentoring, and therapy. He explains choosing a collaborative, multi-site model to develop leaders and ensure long-term sustainability, using growth, finances, and volunteer support as criteria. He emphasizes measuring ministry with both quantitative and qualitative indicators, normalizing risk-taking and learning from failure, and closes with a lightning round and prayer. 00:00 Welcome to the Sandbox 01:35 Why Start the Gathering 03:58 Fusing Two Church Worlds 05:49 Early Success Personal Strain 08:50 Quitting and Turning Point 11:43 Leading with Boundaries 14:14 Multisite Collaboration Vision 17:31 Sustainable Sites and Staffing 20:25 Failure as Innovation Fuel 21:12 Doing What Others Wont 21:32 When to Pivot 23:10 Risky Church Moves 26:32 Measuring Ministry Success 29:51 Where to Find Matt 31:44 Lightning Round Fun 36:09 Calculated Risk vs Reckless 37:39 Prayer and Sendoff

    39 min

  3. MAY 6

    In the Sandbox Season 3 : Episode 6 | Amy Aspey of Short North Church

    The episode features Amy Aspey, founding pastor of Short North Church in Columbus, Ohio, discussing how the church plant emerged from a 100-year-old United Methodist congregation in the arts district near Ohio State that voted by over 80% to close and give its resources to a new, inclusive future. As a United Methodist deacon, Aspey describes saying no twice before accepting a nontraditional lead role centered on bridging church and world through compassion, justice, and service. She outlines Short North’s values—affirming inclusion, neighborhood partnership, story sharing (“everyone has a sacred story”), transparency, and consistent alignment of decisions with values—and explains discerning faithful risk through communal sense of call. She shares a pivot in the Yoga+Worship (“Yo Wo”) ministry from weekly to monthly, describes sustaining the community through belonging and participation, notes a Lilly Grant–funded sabbatical without an interim, and highlights launching an affirming campus ministry, SNC at OSU. 00:00 Meet Amy 02:00 Why Short North Started 03:37 Listening to the Neighborhood 05:29 Closing to Begin Again 08:18 Deacon to Lead Pastor 11:49 Values That Guide 15:57 Risk Versus Reckless 19:32 Pivoting Yo Wo 25:15 Fine Tuning the Pace 25:56 Belonging Sustains Community 27:27 Participation Over Perfection 29:45 Launching the OSU Campus 33:05 Advice for Would Be Planters 35:43 Next Risk Unhoused Neighbors 36:56 Lightning Round Favorites 40:24 Where to Find Amy 40:49 Prayer and Closing

    42 min

  4. APR 29

    In the Sandbox Season 3 : Episode 5 | Jeremy Steele, the "Skeptic Pastor"

    Hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups interview Jeremy Steele, creator of Skeptic Pastor on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, about how an experiment to study church use of TikTok unexpectedly grew into a 260–270K follower audience and a smaller intentional community called “Not Church.” Steele, a self-described deep skeptic and pastor, avoids institutional church language because many members have religious trauma, and he focuses on relational pastoral engagement, progressive takes on biblical texts, exposing corruption, and addressing current issues of injustice. He discusses authenticity, research-heavy content production, making retraction videos, being doxxed, and building a creator-economy “pay for what you get” model that avoids donations and includes free options, supported initially by a declining grant. He argues digital space is full, real ministry, offers cohorts and coaching to help others launch, then ends with a lightning round and a closing prayer. 00:00 Meet Skeptic Pastor 01:58 Accidental TikTok Growth 04:32 Not Church Community 06:31 Authenticity And Safety 09:07 Pastor Discernment Filter 13:40 Entrepreneurship Value 17:36 Risks And Funding Model 21:40 Innovation Means Failing 24:00 Unglamorous Content Grind 27:18 Retractions and Credibility 28:34 Deep Skeptic Mindset 30:14 Starting Digital Community 31:05 Online Ministry Is Real 35:31 Distance Ministry Argument 36:08 What Audience Should Gain 38:04 Lightning Round Fun 43:55 Prayer and Sendoff

    46 min

  5. APR 22

    In the Sandbox Season 3 : Episode 4 | Cristin Cooper

    Cristin Cooper, founder of Maryland-based social enterprise Coop’s Soups and a licensed local pastor, shares how loneliness in 2018–2019 led her to practice hospitality by sharing soup with neighbors and how it evolved into a missional business. She explains designing the company to reflect community-building by selling at a farmers market, sourcing from local farmers, labeling jars with “Share me” and conversation starters, and making and donating soup to a food bank while eating together to embody socioeconomic belonging. Cristin describes inviting people into the kitchen, launching monthly soup-making gatherings, maintaining a “pace of grace” by going slow and deep to build trust, and taking risks like quitting her job, selling publicly, and running gatherings still in draft form. She discusses centering her call amid denominational expectations, grounding in Luke 10, exploring bread and a community garden, possible franchising, recipe choices, and advising leaders that “YouTube is your friend.” 00:00 Welcome to Coop Soups 02:01 Loneliness to Table 03:48 Soup Becomes Enterprise 04:53 Designing Community Values 07:25 Cooking Together Belonging 09:26 Pace of Grace Leadership 11:58 Risks and Leap of Faith 17:30 Staying Centered in Calling 22:57 When Soup Excludes Someone 26:09 Bread Team Expansion 28:07 Garden Team Vision 29:29 Scaling and Franchising Ideas 31:36 Choosing New Soup Recipes 36:44 Risk Taking With YouTube 39:39 Lightning Round Fun 44:16 Where to Find Coop Soups 44:46 Closing Prayer and Sendoff

    46 min

  6. APR 15

    In the Sandbox Season 3 : Episode 3 | Derrick Scott III

    Hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups interview Derrick Scott III, Associate Director of Learning and Innovation at Wesleyan Impact Partners, about “entrepreneurship” in ministry as faithfulness—cultivating what’s been placed in our hands, experimenting, and adapting to changing needs. Derrick describes leading in permission-giving spaces that allow trial-and-error learning and argues campus ministry must follow student rhythms (e.g., moving weekly gatherings, midnight Bible study) while helping churches decenter established patterns to reach young adults. He shares practices for staying healthy amid constant change, emphasizing self-care so he can focus on those he serves and measure success by whether people feel seen. Derrick advises churches to invest real resources in younger generations, admit current models are often designed for boomers, and give younger people meaningful inheritance and authority. He discusses generational theory (Gen Z amid chaos; Gen Alpha rebuilding) and calls for equipping and passing the mic to younger leaders. 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro 02:21 Faithful Entrepreneurship 05:20 Pivoting With Permission 07:56 Campus Ministry Rhythms 15:19 Staying Healthy in Change 20:07 Coaching Churches for Gen Z 26:17 Unlocking Lay Leadership 28:45 Empowering the Laity 30:43 Gen Alpha and Church Futures 35:07 Gen Z as Artist Leaders 38:39 Passing the Mic Well 41:06 Mentoring Young Preachers 42:31 Lightning Round Fun 48:35 Where to Find Derrick 50:34 Prayer and Sendoff

    52 min

  7. APR 8

    In the Sandbox - Season 3 : Episode 2 | Kathi McShane and Rabbi Elan Babchuck

    Hosts Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups interview leadership consultant Kathi McShane and Rabbi Elan Babchuck about their partnership, formed after an Ashoka gathering and later co-leading classes for the Changemaker initiative. Drawing on their book and Walter Brueggemann, they define “empire” as a coercive, control-oriented pyramid culture that leaders and organizations internalize and revert to under stress. They discuss markers of getting “sucked into empire,” including making leaders the hub, prioritizing metrics over people, and hustle culture’s paradox of productivity, which dehumanizes teams and drives burnout. Sabbath is presented as an antidote that redistributes agency and trust, with Elan sharing how a serious accident and recovery led him to keep Shabbat. They explore risks of “leaving Egypt” (loss of stability), the myth of scarcity, grief as a clarifier of values, and leadership that shares power by prioritizing wellbeing over output. 00:00 Meet the Guests 02:00 How They Connected 06:07 Defining Empire 08:53 Signs of Empire Thinking 11:28 Hustle Culture Trap 14:23 Sabbath as Antidote 17:13 Shabbat Saved My Life 20:52 Risk of Leaving Egypt 23:32 Scarcity Mindset vs Faith 26:35 Grief in Change 29:02 Grief Fuels Creation 29:54 Grieving Well Matters 31:21 From Me to We 32:19 You Are the System 36:18 Leader Productivity Trap 39:01 Crossing the Jordan Signs 40:36 Footsteps in the Sand 43:30 Lightning Round Fun 49:06 Where to Find Them 50:53 Closing Prayer and Farewell

    53 min

  8. APR 1

    In the Sandbox - Season 3 : Episode 1 | Matt Rawle & Rachel Billups

    What is the In the Sandbox podcast, Season 3 all about? In today's Season 3 launch episode of the In the Sandbox podcast, Matt Rawle and Rachel Billups sit down and discuss the incredible guests they had the opportunity to chat with on the topic of entrepreneurship and ministry, and how the two are more intertwined than we traditionally might think. They also share about the new, upcoming Hub4Innovation book entitled Dream, Dare, Disrupt, where they are providing applicable and innovative systems, strategies, and tools that ministry leaders can use to have more impact on their rapidly changing communities. Chapters: 00:00 - In the Sandbox Season 3 Launch 07:17 - Rabbi Elan Babchuck & Kathi McShane 09:45 - Derrick Scott III 11:51 - Cristin Cooper 14:34 - Jeremy Steele 16:10 - Amy Aspey 18:39 - Matt Miofsky 20:37 - Benj Miller 23:02 - Bishop Tom Berlin 25:47 - Lightening Round 34:02 - Hub4Innovation's Debut Book

    37 min
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About

find out more at Hub4Innovation.org

Information

  • Creator
    Hub4Innovation
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    29
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © All rights reserved
  • Show Website
    In the Sandbox

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