Innovating Out Loud

JoAnn Garbin and Taryn Kutches

A live monthly webcast and weekly sense-making series where leaders say it ugly and build it better. Real conversations on regenerative innovation. Hosted by JoAnn Garbin and Taryn Kutches of Regenerous Labs. innovatingoutloud.substack.com

  1. Jul 13

    Dark Adaptation

    The sun always goes down faster than you expect when you’re deep in the forest. You think you have plenty of time. And then all of a sudden, the trail is grey, then the trail is just a suggestion, and then you are standing in a place you can no longer see. You reach for your flashlight or headlamp. This is the moment. Your thumb is on the switch. You can end this whole situation in one second. Turn it on and ten feet of path reappears ahead of you. Past the beam and all around you is still a black wall — six inches beyond the light it seems even darker now. The forest that was around you a moment ago is receding. Something breaks low and fast off to your right. You can’t see it. And you won’t. But what if you wait? What if you stand there in the darkness? The first few minutes aren’t great, for me at least. My heart races and I imagine all the things that are lurking in the shadows. Stalking me. I feel like I’m doing something stupid. My instincts argue with my choice. Then a trunk emerges from the dark — the white birch always show up first. Then a few feet of the trail. Not brightly, but there, a pale rift in the darkness. Then the space between the trees gains depth. A smear of foxfire on a rotting log. A lightning bug or two (fireflies to anyone not from Jersey). Looking up, I can see a canopy that is not black but very dark blue, with holes in it. Some stars shine through. I wouldn’t have noticed the foxfire in daylight. Lightning bugs don’t come out until dark. The forest has a light of its own that illuminates far more than my flashlight. I just have to wait for my eyes to adjust. Great Question In the June episode of the Innovating Out Loud webcast, Larry Robertson and I talked about questions — the subject of his new book, Great Question: The Art of the Ask and Getting More of What You Really Want. Forty minutes into our effort to question questions, Larry asked me a doozy. What do you already know that you will realize soon? I have made a living out of asking questions. I train people how to do it. This question did something only a handful of questions have done throughout my life — it hit my mental pause button. My mind went blank. Except that’s not right, and I got this wrong the first three times I tried to write about it. My mind wasn’t blank. It was dark. There was a there there — you can hear my oooooo reaction in the clip — I just couldn’t see it. Still can’t. But as I sat with it, my mind became a room with the light off. Dark, but it had depth. And then it wasn’t a room anymore. It was the forest. On or Off? I have been sitting with this question for nearly three weeks. I still can’t see very far down the trail but things are starting to emerge. My mind’s eye is starting to adjust. What was at first a surprise — the sudden darkness and wanting to find an answer — has eased into a calm abiding. It’s actually become rather nice. I’m enjoying the not knowing. I feel pretty sure that nothing is going to eat me if I just stand still for a little while. And I believe I will see some things that would have otherwise scattered. And I think that is the point of the question. It would be easy enough to ask AI to help me find an answer faster. I could pull together a panel of my experts to generate ideas, hundreds of them in minutes. But that would be like turning on the flashlight in the forest. Sure, I’ll see the trail. The worn path. But everything else will disappear into the shadows, maybe never to be seen again. My refusal to use AI in this case is harder than it sounds, because I’m an AI champion. I use it constantly and find it astonishing. But there’s a distinction in how I use it that I couldn’t have articulated a month ago. * Expansion by exposure — transcripts, research, arguments, other people’s thinking, ten times more of the forest than my legs could ever carry me across. That’s exploration. * Expansion by generation — hundreds of options, on demand, right now. That’s a flashlight pointed at my own uncertainty, and what it returns is the average of everything ever said about my problem. It’s the worn path with the rest of the forest gone black behind it. The average is in the beam. The extraordinary is in the dark, running away from the light. You and Only You Thought experiments have produced some of the largest breakthroughs in human history. Galileo mentally dropping rocks off the Tower of Pisa dismantled Aristotle’s theory of gravity. Einstein chased a beam of light in his head. No data. No lab. Just a person sitting with a question, adjusting their mind to it. That is the dark adaptation of innovation — of creativity. It is the oldest and most powerful cognitive practice we have, and it works precisely because we don’t turn the light on. The answer was already there. What was missing was someone sitting with the question long enough to perceive it. More specifically, what is missing is you. Perception cannot be delegated. Not because the other people or machines are stupid but because we do not have your perception. Your senses. Your collection of experiences. Someone didn’t come up with the theory of special relativity. Einstein did. So the Monday morning practice is not one of patience or even courage. It’s trust. Trust in yourself. Trust that your eyes will adjust. That your mind can work its way through a darkened path. There is a time and a place for artificial illumination. There are trails you actually need to see, deadlines you need to meet, and questions that already have answers somebody else found that are worth knowing. For those, use the light. I do, every day. But the truly novel answers, your truly novel answers, can only be found in the deep forest of your mind. And they may only emerge if you stand still for a little while and let them. I could not ask for a better next guest to continue this conversation: join me on July 23rd at 10:30 AM PT / 1:30 PM ET with Angus Fletcher. He’s the author of Wonderworks and Primal Intelligence — books that have come up in IOL conversations frequently — a story scientist at Project Narrative, and professor at Ohio State University. Angus argues that the human mind starts with story. A process he calls Narrative Cognition. By the time we chat, I will have spent a month sitting with a question that has become a dark forest. I THINK he’ll tell me that’s exactly how it’s supposed to work. Connections to The Insider’s Guide to Innovation at Microsoft * Diverge-Converge-Synthesize As we say in the book, the best innovators diverge more often, and for longer, than everyone else — resisting the urge to converge early for the sake of order, control, or security. Because just like the flashlight in the forest, early convergence returns the middle of what's known, and misses the extraordinary. * Intentional Discovery Discovery doesn’t fit between meetings. That’s the finding from the book, and it’s the one people most often nod at and then ignore — because a calendar full of open space looks, to almost everyone, like a calendar full of nothing. Three weeks of not answering a question looks like nothing too. It isn’t. * Think Week Twice a year, Bill Gates would disappear to a remote cabin with a stack of papers and no company. The value was never in the cabin — it was in the removal of input long enough for something to surface. You can now recreate the cabin and fill it with a machine that will hand you three hundred ideas before lunch. That is not a Think Week. That’s a very expensive flashlight. * Questionstorm The technique in the book is to generate questions instead of solutions — who, what, when, where, how often — and hold off on answering. We use it to help open up the problem space, and by extension, the solution space. This piece was written with AI assistance. I use it to research, to think out loud, and to argue with. The judgment, the errors, and the sitting are mine. Onward! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit innovatingoutloud.substack.com

    Dark Adaptation
  2. Jul 9

    Innovating Out Loud with Larry Robertson

    We take a lot for granted in innovation. Chief among them: that questions are where it all starts. So this episode, Larry Robertson and I decided to poke at our own assumption and see if it held up. Larry’s an innovation advisor and the author of Great Question, a book he built by talking to more than 140 people — neuroscientists, teachers, artists, CEOs. What he found is that we’re a questioning species. Our brains actually do their best work in uncertainty, not away from it. We got into why “best” isn’t a fixed answer but something you build together, why asking “why” too early kills the good stuff, and how I once flipped a data center project by asking “What if communities asked us to build one?” instead of “How do we get permission?” We closed on AI — useful, but only if you’ve already got the muscle it can’t teach you. An hour in, our assumption held. Questions really are where it starts. Five things worth carrying with you * Questions aren’t a technique. They’re how we’re built. Your brain does its sharpest thinking in change, complexity, and uncertainty — Larry’s neuroscientists call it “innovation mode.” So questioning isn’t something you bolt onto the work. It’s the work. * Quit leading with “why.” Start with “why” and you’re down a rabbit hole you won’t climb out of. Try Deb Meyer’s five instead: How do we know what we know? Is there a pattern? What if? Is there another way? Who cares? As Larry put it, a question is just going there. You’re not committing to anything yet. * Flip the question and watch the whole thing change. For years the industry asked, “How do we get permitted to build a data center?” We asked, “What if people were asking us to build one?” You can’t solve that the same way. What came out didn’t look, sound, or run like a data center at all. Because innovation is value creation — if it’s not changing someone’s life, it’s just a cool idea. * It starts with trusting yourself. Every field Larry studied circled back to the same thing: faith in your own questioning, earned from the wins and the flops. You can’t build that trust across a team if it isn’t there in you first. When you’re stuck, lean on the three things you can always trust — curiosity, play, and search. * AI can’t teach you to question. It can help. But AI averages toward an answer, and you can’t amplify a skill you don’t have. Build the muscle yourself, and how you use AI will change. Skip that, and you’re just handing over the thinking that would’ve made you better. You can find Larry’s book, Great Question: The Art of the Ask and Getting More of What Your Really Want everywhere books are sold. Next up on Innovating Out Loud: Angus Fletcher. Story Scientist and author of books that have come up in many previous episodes. Wonderworks and Primal Intelligence live on my desk. This is a not to miss session. NOTE the change of time: 10:30 AM PT / 1:30 PM ET. July 23, 2026. Register here and see you then! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit innovatingoutloud.substack.com

    Innovating Out Loud with Larry Robertson
  3. Jun 15

    Innovating Out Loud with Jayshree Seth

    Three days short of 33 years at 3M, Jayshree Seth now leads the effort to put generative AI use-cases to work in R&D — which puts her between the hype and the people who have to live with it. Her message is bracing and oddly reassuring at once: AI can accelerate every step of the climb from data to wisdom, but it can't make the climb for you. Skip the human work and you don't reach the answer faster — you arrive at a confident-sounding one you can't defend. What she handed us was a working toolkit for doing it right, folded into four frameworks and one phrase we won't forget: Trace, Fast, Arcs, Flow. JoAnn and Taryn spoke with Jayshree on the May 28th episode of IOL. Here are a few key takeaways. Five takeaways 1. AI can accelerate the climb from data to wisdom. It can’t make the climb for you. 2. AI flips the pyramid — and DIKW becomes WIKD. 3. It’s not artificial intelligence. It’s "artificial diligence." 4. AI narrows the access gap and widens the judgment gap. 5. AI doesn’t just change jobs — it changes the jobs to be done. Closing The technology is ready. The organization usually isn’t — and that gap is human. Jayshree’s whole toolkit points at the same quiet truth: AI is most useful to the people who’d still know what to do without it. Watch the full conversation for all four frameworks, the books behind them, and why she thinks the unlikely candidates are the ones true innovation needs. Check out Jayshree’s books, The Heart of Science Series: Engineering Blueprint (2024); Engineering Fine Print (2022); Engineering Footprints, Fingerprints, & Imprints (2020). All sales proceeds go towards a scholarship for women in STEM administered by Society of Women Engineers (SWE). Our next session of Innovating Out Loud is on June 25th at 9 AM PT / 12 PM ET with special guest, Larry Robertson. He’s an author, advisor, innovator, speaker, columnists and collaborative partner of the Lab! He and JoAnn will be talking about his new book, Great Question: The Art of the Ask and Getting More of What You Really Want. Never miss a live episode. Register for the series at: www.regenerouslabs.com/innovatingoutloud This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit innovatingoutloud.substack.com

    Innovating Out Loud with Jayshree Seth
  4. Jun 8

    They Cheered the Water

    It’s a warm evening in Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin, and you’ve brought a glass of wine out to the back deck the way you have for years. The grass, the fence, the slow blue dark coming down. And underneath all of it, something new. A hum. The kind you feel in your chest. A low, constant drone, loud enough to carry over a television and conversations around the fire pit. Some nights you give up on the backyard altogether. You’re considering moving. Three miles away, a 315-acre campus is running 24/7. The hum is the sound of it exhaling. Your backyard is where this story really starts, but not how it was told this week at Microsoft Build. Read or listen to the full piece here and on innovatingoutloud.substack.com Connections to The Insider's Guide to Innovation at Microsoft: Pattern #4: Innovating More Than Technology — The piece's spine: "not a technology challenge, a business model challenge." Every component already exists — heat exchangers since the early 1900s, quieter-fan designs sitting on the shelf. The book makes the same move, that the decisive innovation is rarely the device but the business model and value chain around it. Pattern #3: Innovating With Everyone — "Build with the place, not around it." Bring community and nature to the table before the design sets. The DOTF team's own precedent in the book — 200 conversations inside and outside before a single concept was drawn — is the proof that the early, optional conversation is the one that changes the outcome. Aim for Positive (#15) / Regenerative Design (#51) — Closing the loop to send a stream of value back into the place instead of throwing waste heat over the fence: surplus by design, not harm reduction. The book quotes Satya asking whether, at the core of the business model, "are you creating a surplus around you?" This piece asks him to finish the question. Top-down, Bottom-up, Outside-in (#16) — All three are in the room and none are wired together: top-down names what to protect (electricity, jobs, tax base); bottom-up is the engineers who already want to build the heat loop; outside-in is the backyard no one invited. The book's argument is that durable change needs the three connected — which is exactly what "external pressure creates internal permission" names: the outside-in voice unlocking what the bottom-up already wants to build. This piece was developed in the open, with AI as a thinking and drafting partner. The argument, the judgment, and the final words are mine. Say it Ugly, Build it Better! Onward! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit innovatingoutloud.substack.com

    They Cheered the Water
  5. May 31

    Data Centers: The Tower or The Wall

    Between two stories sits one idea: technology is never neutral. It takes on the character of whoever designs it, builds it, and runs it. The tower and the city are built with the same stone. What changes is who decided and who participated. Connections to The Insider’s Guide to Innovation at Microsoft This piece connects directly to four frameworks from the book: * Innovating With Everyone — Nehemiah didn’t hold a stakeholder meeting — he called his neighbors together and gave each family a section to own. The seven-company coalition that designed the Regenerative Data Center operated on Pattern #3’s central premise: engage early, engage widely, engage with empathy. Meet people where they’re at and move forward together. * Top-Down, Bottom-Up, Outside-In — The windowless hall is a pure top-down artifact — decisions made in rooms far from the plain, ignoring the ground-level feedback and community signals coming in. The Regenerative Data Center inverted this deliberately: designed from the bottom up, with hundreds of outside-in voices, human and otherwise. * Aim for Positive — A data center that takes from the county’s water, pulls from the county’s grid, and returns a number on a tax form is aiming for less bad. The Regenerative Data Center aimed for abundance — heat returned to homes, power that steadies the grid, ecology restored, economy supported — mutual benefit by design, not compliance. * Language as Strategic Tool — Leo XIV’s encyclical is a masterclass in strategic language: naming “Babel” and “Nehemiah” rewrites what builders optimize for before they pick up a stone. “Mutual benefit by design” and “each neighbor builds a section” work the same way — deliberate terminology that reframes what a coalition believes is possible, and then makes possible. Sources 1. Leo XIII. “Rerum Novarum: Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII on Capital and Labor.” Vatican, May 15, 1891. https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.html 2. Leo XIV. “Magnifica Humanitas.” Vatican, May 15, 2026. https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html Written with AI assistance. The thinking — and the stretch of wall — are mine. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit innovatingoutloud.substack.com

    Data Centers: The Tower or The Wall

About

A live monthly webcast and weekly sense-making series where leaders say it ugly and build it better. Real conversations on regenerative innovation. Hosted by JoAnn Garbin and Taryn Kutches of Regenerous Labs. innovatingoutloud.substack.com