Kaitlin LeMoine and Julian Alssid turn the microphone on themselves to kick off Season 5 of the Work Forces podcast. As they approach their 50th episode, the co-hosts reflect on their journey and the dramatic shifts they've witnessed at the intersection of work and learning. Kaitlin and Julian discuss the evolution of workforce development from a fringe topic to a central national priority, highlighting how this shift has been influenced by economic, political, and technological changes. They unpack the rise of a skills-based ecosystem, noting how the traditional "once and done" model of education has become obsolete in an era of rapid technological change, particularly with the widespread adoption of generative AI. Drawing on their consulting work and insights from past guests, the co-hosts emphasize the imperative of cross-sector collaboration and human-centered design in bridging the gap between education and industry. They stress that experiential learning is now the new currency of opportunity, and human connection remains the "secret sauce" for success. Kaitlin and Julian offer practical advice for leaders navigating this period of unprecedented change. They encourage listeners to embrace agility and partnership, keep their eye on the prize of helping individuals thrive, and anchor their work in human purpose to build a more equitable and prosperous future for all. Transcript Julian Alssid: Welcome to the workforces Podcast. I'm Julian Alssid. Kaitlin LeMoine: And I'm Kaitlin LeMoine, and we speak with innovators who are shaping the future of work and learning. Julian Alssid: Together, we unpack the complex elements of workforce and career preparation and offer practical solutions that can be scaled and sustained. Kaitlin LeMoine: This podcast is an outgrowth of our Work Forces consulting practice. Through weekly discussions, we seek to share the trends and themes we see in our work and amplify impactful efforts happening in higher education, industry, and workforce development all across the country. We are grateful to Lumina Foundation for its past support during the initial development and launch of this podcast, and invite future sponsors of this effort. Please check out our Work Forces podcast website to learn more. And so with that, let's dive in. Kaitlin LeMoine: So Julian, we're at an exciting point here, kicking off Season Five. Can't believe it. We're rapidly coming up on 50 episodes and two years of hosting this podcast. Thanks to all of our guests and listeners who have supported this work so far, and we're excited to be in this new season, and it felt like a good moment to welcome everyone and take this moment to share our own perspectives. It feels like a good time to flip the mic back on ourselves and share a bit of our own thinking at this evolving and fast moving intersection of work and learning. Julian Alssid: Yes, it indeed is a milestone moment for us, Kaitlin, as we embark on Season Five here, and it's been such a pleasure working with you, consulting with you, and podcasting with you. And also, I'm so grateful to our guests and our audience for making this possible. It's just as as we had hoped from the beginning, as this kind of grew out of our consulting, it really has just become kind of a natural corollary and feedback loop for us to keep learning and sharing and learning and sharing. So let's learn and share with one another today. Kaitlin LeMoine: Absolutely well, the feeling is mutual. Thank you for your partnership over the last few years in this work and in our consulting efforts. And yeah, excited to dive in with this conversation today. So I guess to kick us off, Julian, you know, given your many years in this space and in the last few years of our work together, you know, how are you seeing the intersection of work and learning, changing and evolving. What are you paying attention to? What are you thinking about? Julian Alssid: I keep going back to the same point when I really think back to my like, 35 years in the field. You know when I started this, and even when we met over a decade ago, this was still fringe work. It was people interested in workforce development were basically the people who were working on workforce development in one form or another, and it has gone from front to center, I think, driven mostly by economic imperative, you know, by rising skill demands and gaps between learners and employers and everyone trying to find a better way to come together. It's been enforced, and I think, fed further by policy. So for example, I mean, I guess I will say it's and have been saying this for a long time too. It's really been kind of an apple pie topic that cuts across the political spectrum, and so, you know, and we're and we're even seeing that with all the change going on now. The Biden administration, previous administration, made significant investments in workforce development, and that helped to accelerate and focus attention across industry and government and education. And just recently, the Trump administration released its new talent strategy report, which kind of lays out a plan for a more streamlined system. Now, of course, these approaches are very different, and I think along with that is this kind of great sense of uncertainty, like, well, where will these new policies drive us and so it's, it's kind of like we're all dressed up and not exactly sure where to go. Kaitlin LeMoine: Right. Well, and everything's moving so quickly too, right? Like it's it's the policy, it's also the tech space. It's also how industries are shifting very, very quickly, and just trying to keep pace and kind of keep all of these different changes on our radar screens while still moving the work forward feels like a key challenge. Julian Alssid: Yeah. So, yes, absolutely. I mean, and there's just so many pieces of this to unpack. I mean, what do you see as, like, what is, what is rising to the surface for you? Kaitlin LeMoine: Yeah? I mean, I think that one of the things that strikes me that feels distinct from other points, I guess, in my work in this field over the many years is that I feel like there's so much happening for employers and industry, for educators, whether in K 12 or in higher ed, and for learners, kind of all at the same time. And maybe it's partially that, you know, the focus of my work has shifted to over the years, like from being very focused on implementing one program, or one initiative, or thinking about tactically, how to go about doing things, versus also now operating at a level of thinking about how does this broader landscape impact work with different types of clients, but it just feels like there's so much movement for employers as they think about how to hire and train and recruit the next generation of employees. Then there's the next generation of learners, and how we are educating those individuals, whether they're from some of our podcast conversations, right, like in middle school, or whether they're in higher ed or adult learners who are looking to advance further. And then for the actual people you know, for those learners, as they're looking for jobs and looking to advance. It just feels like there's so much movement, so much at stake, and it's like this moment of de siloing wherever possible, because we're all like, there's this recognition that employers can't do this work without educators. Educators can't do this work without employers, and we need this feedback loop in order to really try to all advance in this complex intersection of work and learning together, that's I feel like, really top of mind for me at this moment. Julian Alssid: Yeah, it is. It is so complex. And I like to try to think about like, well, what are the kind of, what are the threads that run through it all? Kind of try to bring some clarity and and one that that keeps popping to mind for me is this whole idea of the the rise of a skills based ecosystem that, you know, I think that you know that there was so much talk for years about, you know, kind of the knowledge based economy and, and I do think we are, on some level, shifting to more of a skills based economy. And I was even just thinking back to like interviews we did. I remember Matt Siegelman from Burning Glass Institute talked about the study that Burning Glass had done back in, I think '22 that showed that at that point, the average job had seen 30% of its skills replaced in five years. And so this whole idea of kind of the one and done model of education becomes obsolete. And by the way, that 37% figure came before the widespread adoption of generative AI. Kaitlin LeMoine: Yeah. So what does it mean now? Right? Julian Alssid: Yeah, exactly. Are we moving now? Right? It was bad enough then, and you could see the gaps, and you could see people employers complaining about not getting the skills, and people frustrated with their education, saying they're not getting what they need. And yes, but I think what we're seeing now is employers are increasingly prioritizing skills and competencies. Their still certainly their leadership has degrees, but it's definitely moving to the fore. Kaitlin LeMoine: No, I think that's, I think that's right. I mean, I think one thing that stuck out to me from our past, from our episodes this past season, kind of building on that, you know, were a couple of different conversations just around this integration of, like, career advice, support, and transparency, kind of across this ecosystem and certainly being built more into the educational experience. Like you know, whether it was our conversation with Nisha Taylor, with NACE regarding both the career competencies and making the skills and competencies that learners are acquiring clear and transparent, like how to talk about those things with employers, how to make it ring true to employers. And then even thinking back to Scott Carlson and Ned Laff with their Hacking College book, and think
