Melody or Witchcraft: Poets on Emily Dickinson & Today's Issues

Kathryn Petruccelli
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Conversations with today's poets and writers about Emily Dickinson and about the scope and sources of creative influence and the relevance of the past. Guests choose a Dickinson poem and one of their own to read. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com

  1. 6d ago

    Bonus Bit: Brenda Hillman

    This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Brenda Hillman for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Brenda kindly and honestly responds to my question around being part of a two-poet household. Folks mentioned:Robert Haas Forrest Gander CD Wright This completes Season 3 of Melody or Witchcraft. We’ll be back at the start of October with Season 4!! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

  2. 6d ago

    Brenda Hillman: life loaded and unloaded

    The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, social justice, and poetry as a tool for survival. I have yet to fail to fall further in love with each poet-guest after our conversations. I hope that will be true for you, too. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 19, Brenda & I unload ideas about our sister Emily’s influence, agree accessibility is the devil’s work, talk the long poem, the (short) chapbook, and much more! In addition to the following full-length interview, look for the Brenda Hillman “bonus bit” episode where Brenda talks about her partnership with poet Robert Haas. (NB: Brenda Hillman is our anchor episode for Season 3. We’ll be back in October with Season 4 and more amazing poet guests.) Brenda Hillman was born in Tucson, Arizona and has been an active part of the Bay Area literary community since 1975. She has published chapbooks with Penumbra Press, a+bend press, EmPress, A Minus Press, and Albion Books. And has published twelve full-length collections with Wesleyan University Press, including her upcoming title, Still House in the Desert: An eco-contemplation (September 2026), and her recent collections, In A Few Minutes Before Later (2022); Seasonal Works with Letters on Fire (2013), which received the International Griffin Poetry Prize; and Extra Hidden Life, among the Days (2018), winner of the Northern California Book Award. Brenda’s choice of Dickinson poem: My Life had stood - a Loaded Gun -In Corners - till a DayThe Owner passed - identified -And carried Me away - And now We roam in Sovreign Woods -And now We hunt the Doe -And every time I speak for HimThe Mountains straight reply - And do I smile, such cordial lightOpon the Valley glow -It is as a Vesuvian faceHad let it’s pleasure through - And when at Night - Our good Day done -I guard My Master’s Head -’Tis better than the Eider Duck’sDeep Pillow - to have shared - To foe of His - I’m deadly foe -None stir the second time -On whom I lay a Yellow Eye -Or an emphatic Thumb - Though I than He - may longer liveHe longer must - than I -For I have but the power to kill,Without - the power to die – Fascicle 34, Sheet 4, c. late 1863 (Fr764; J754) The Family Sells the Family GunBrenda Hillman a prose ballad i only held it once but thought about it often as you think about those times when your life had stood both loaded & unloaded One brother knew of its existence having seen it where it languished in the famed green storage unit from which it had been transferred to the bank-box but we never quite knew when Information our father had & something he was squeamish about or proud of at the same time the way Protestants are about g******s We believed it was a Luger—maybe taken from a soldier—in the War our father trained for but didn’t ever get to because he was wounded in the knee—“sustained” is the word they use—sustained a wound—in infantry maneuvers before his men were mostly killed after D-Day— When his ashes in the desert grave were lying we took the weapon from the bank-box i put it quickly in my handbag to get it past the teller—the holster was the smoothest leather—brown & heavy —the yawning L-shape of the Luger Google says Georg Luger designed in 1898 —the holster smooth as the jackets of German soldiers in the movies & what had they done to make the cowhide smooth like that & what had they done to the cow We thought of burying it in the desert but if you Google burying a firearm it changes to a search for buying a firearm You can also look up how to load a semi-automatic weapon on YouTube where a white man with thick hands & a wedding band shows you how to check for rounds in what order & tells you how to handle it with your dominant hand We couldn’t take it to the cops even in my handbag though Arizona is open carry & you can take it anywhere in public but the cops can shoot you if you take your gun to their station One young Tucson cop named Matt agreed to come to us & checked the magazine & said it was unloaded— looked upon us with excruciatingly mild pity — said this relic might be worth some money & stroked it the way some boys do i couldn’t tell what the brothers were thinking— it felt like a tragedy but reversible—our father’s ghost stood like a tall working summer like Hamlet’s father’s ghost appearing only in the day & good naturedly telling people not do the killing but still trying to control the actions of the play You can think about ghostly word weapons nonstop Let’s just take a shot at it She was going great guns He loved her but couldn’t quite pull the trigger Better to just bite the bullet Kill an hour or two & for some reason maybe sorrow for our father’s power/lack of power i felt a twinge when my brother whisked the tiny heavy out of there —my life had stood a secret little hiddenly shameful semi-automatic firearm & When at night Our good day done i guard my Master’s head My younger brother sold it for $600 at a Tucson gun shop—one of those outfits where the master paces behind the counter offering advice on collecting & is so proud of his stash It was a Tuesday i think—a Tuesday inside history where America is lost—& what should we do with the cash Other Dickinson poems mentioned: A little Madness in the Spring People, books, and concepts mentioned in the conversation: Bob (Robert) Hass (Edgar Allan) Poe Lord Byron The Pocket Emily Dickinson, ed. Brenda Hillman, 1995 (Walt) Whitman Wallace Stevens’ “Le Monocle de Mon Oncle” Tang Dynasty Barbara Mossberg episode of Melody or Witchcraft John Keats’ “Ode to a Nightingale” Denise Levertov Elizabeth Bishop Gertrude Stein H.D. Dale Going Dickinson’s Master Letters Iambic Anapestic “Paul Revere’s Ride” by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Robinson Jeffers & his poem “The Purse-Seine” Susannah Taminin AWP = Association of Writers & Writing Programs, a large annual writing conference that happens in different cities around the U.S. year to year. Ekphrasic (Thomas Wentworth) Higginson Dante (William) Wordsworth’s poems “Prelude” & “A Slumber did my Spirit Seal” Brian Teare & Albion Books (also mentioned in Dana Levin’s Melody or Witchcraft episode) C.D. Wright The Firecage, Brenda’s chapbook about menopause and hotflashes Recorded April 15, 2026 Make sure to check out the Brenda Hillman Bonus Bit episode as well. Otherwise, this completes Season 3 of Melody or Witchcraft. Best wishes for a poetic September and we’ll be back with a new season in October. Thank you for your support. ox NEW WORKSHOP OPPORTUNITIES: Join me for a revision techniques/revising in community stand-alone workshop Sunday, August 30! (Free for paid Substack subscribers.) Join up with one of the 8-week generative workshops beginning in September through SOBI (Small Observances, Big Ideas). Poetroar.com for more details. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

  3. Aug 17

    Bonus Bit: Kemi Alabi

    This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Kemi Alabi for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Please listen to this small clip, where Kemi speaks about their intentions for the reader, repetition as a route toward revelation and an embodied understand if the poem. Along the way, they mention: Toni Morrison Fela Kuti Surely, you have something to say after listening?!? Can you think of a friend who needs to hear what’s here? Perhaps you’ve even been moved to support my work here in other ways? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

  4. Aug 17

    Kemi Alabi: sound as a bridge to the beyond

    The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, and poetry as a tool for survival. I have yet to fail to fall further in love with each poet-guest after our conversations. I hope that will be true for you, too. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 18, Kemi & I are all about sonics! Religious rebels have a moment with those from the beyond, and Kemi talks about the importance of the private side of the writing practice, as well as their role as a culture worker and disbelief in nothing. Kemi Alabi is the author of Against Heaven (Graywolf Press, 2022), selected by Claudia Rankine as winner of the Academy of American Poets First Book Award, and co-editor of The Echoing Ida Collection (Feminist Press, 2021). Kemi’s work appears in The Nation, The Atlantic, The Guardian, the Grammy-nominated album Difficult Grace and elsewhere. Born in Wisconsin on a Sunday in July, they now live in Chicago, IL. Kemi’s choice of Dickinson poem: Love—is anterior to Life— Posterior—to Death— Initial of Creation, and The Exponent of Earth— [Unbound Sheets, Sheet 26, c. 1865 (Fr980; J917)] The Lonely Sleep Through WinterKemi Alabi I say hunger and mean your hands bitten to boneseed,bandaged with bedsheet and the night while two states overa mouth—ready soil—says your name. Next June’s loverspeaks the harvest: your rich, vowel-tender song but for the neighbor. More hello than amen. Not yeta whole book of psalms. Choose this. Not your bare room.Your self-vacancies. Unlearn empire’s blackness:night spun savage, space cast empty when really a balm slicks the split between stars. Reallyhipthick spirits moonwalk across the lake ice.Maps to every heaven gauze the trees in velvetbetween that greenbright spectacle of bud and juice and dust—I’m saying there’s no such thingas nothing. Try and try, you’ll never disappear.I say hunger, mean hands you think emptythough everywhere, even the dark, heaves. Other Dickinson poems mentioned: A word is deadWhen it is said,Some say.I say it justBegins to liveThat day. I mention the poem “This World is not Conclusion,” |The second half of the poem that I referred to reads: Faith slips - and laughs, and rallies -Blushes, if any see -Plucks at a twip of Evidence -And asks a Vane, the way -Much Gesture, from the Pulpit -Strong Hallelujahs roll -Narcotics cannot still the ToothThat nibbles at the soul - Diane Seuss’ recent Melody or Witchcraft episode Terrance Hayes’ American Sonnets for My Past and Future Assassin On Dickinson’s identity as a religious “no hoper” - from emilydickinsonmuseum.org: “Like most other educational institutions at the time, Mount Holyoke also believed that students’ moral and religious lives were part of its responsibility and conducted revivals that encouraged students to profess their faith. Students were organized into one of three groups: those who professed, those who hoped to and those who were without hope. Dickinson was among eighty without hope when she entered and was among twenty-nine who remained so by the end of the year.” The Collected Poems of Lucille Clifton/The Clifton House on Lucille Clifton’s spirit writing Gabrielle Calvocoressi’s Melody or Witchcraft episode Jane Wong’s recent Melody or Witchcraft episode Hanif Abdurraqib Natalie Diaz Audre Lorde Toni Cade Bambara Ilya Kaminsky Recorded June 2, 2026 This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

  5. Aug 17

    Bonus Bit: Kemi Alabi

    This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Kemi Alabi for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Please listen to this small clip, where Kemi speaks about their intentions for the reader, repetition as a route toward revelation and an embodied understand if the poem. Along the way, they mention: Toni Morrison Fela Kuti Surely, you have something to say after listening?!? Can you think of a friend who needs to hear what’s here? Perhaps you’ve even been moved to support my work here in other ways? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

  6. Aug 10

    Bonus Bit: Pádraig Ó Tuama

    This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Pádraig Ó Tuama for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Here’s what’s in each of the four snippets: 1. A final request ritual that happened at Corrymeela Peace and Reconciliation organization. 2. Examples of the importance of contexts, religious and poetic. 3. Reading Emily Dickinson during a challenging time in Pádraig’s conflict mediation work. 4. A ritual gesture among friends where one had lost a son—an expanded definition of ritual. Thanks for being a listener! Will you click LIKE so I know you were here? Pádraig mentions the Dickinson famous poem “Because I could not stop for Death.” Here it is: Because I could not stop for Death -He kindly stopped for me -The Carriage held but just Ourselves -And Immortality. We slowly drove - He knew no hasteAnd I had put awayMy labor and my leisure too,For His Civility - We passed the School, where Children stroveAt Recess - in the Ring -We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain -We passed the Setting Sun - Or rather - He passed Us -The Dews drew quivering and Chill -For only Gossamer, my Gown -My Tippet - only Tulle - We paused before a House that seemedA Swelling of the Ground -The Roof was scarcely visible -The Cornice - in the Ground - Since then - ‘tis Centuries - and yetFeels shorter than the DayI first surmised the Horses’ HeadsWere toward Eternity - This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

    Bonus Bit: Pádraig Ó Tuama

  7. Aug 10

    Pádraig Ó Tuama: the baboon of the past

    The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, and poetry as a tool for survival. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for complete notes, photos, and links. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 17, Pádraig & I ruminate on authenticity in ritual, time and the presence of the past, baboons, large cats, and the importance of context. In addition to the following full-length interview, look for Pádraig’s “bonus bit” episode where he goes deeper into examples of ritual, relates his experience reading Dickinson during a particularly challenging time in his conflict mediation work, and more. Pádraig Ó Tuama (b. 1975, Ireland) is a poet with interests in language, violence, power, and religion. He is the host of On Being’s Poetry Unbound and has published volumes of poetry, essays, a memoir and theology. Kitchen Hymns (2025; Copper Canyon, CHEERIO) was shortlisted for the Lambda Literary Award. His two anthologies from the Poetry Unbound series have gathered widespread praise, with author Elif Shafak calling it “Mesmerising, magical, deeply moving…” In Autumn 2026, his collection Love Between Men will be published, and he will take up the role as Professor in the Practice of Spirituality at Yale Divinity School. Pádraig’s choice for a Dickinson poem: The Past is such a curious Creature,To look her in the FaceA Transport may receipt/reward us,Or a Disgrace – Unarmed if any meet herI charge him flyHer faded/rusty AmmunitionMight yet reply. Unbound Sheet 89 c. 1872 (Fr1273; J1203) Rite of BaptismPádraig Ó Tuama If you pass, know that you’ll have no sayabout what happens. Some of our people will hate you.You must create a lifewithout giving them all your life’s attention. Some people will delight in destroying you.Some will strike you. Some will chooseothers as their favorites. Some have been waiting for you for generations,circling, like hunters, round your little heart.Of course they don’t know you. This truth will set you free,eventually. But only after you’ve forgotten this.You haven’t learned to fly yet, have you? Someone will love you.Someone will hurt you too, but you know that already. We offer you little in the way of certainty;just that the country you live in will not always be that country. There is a lot you’ll need to suffer.Remember: help is a howl and an imperative. Nothing to be ashamed of. One way or another, shamecan teach you what nothing else can teach you. One way or another.Your body is an event,and you’ll spend decades unpacking what’s happened. Here is what we cannot guarantee you:guarantees, or history’s purity. Here is what we can: a stage, some paper,curiosity, danger. There is no such thing as the past.Just stories of the past told today. And anyway, nobody knows where the past begins—in the beginning it was all a dream, not a story. Remember: you must believesome of this. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber for as little as 5 dollars/7 euros a month. I would especially appreciate your support right now to offset recent spending on consultations I commissioned to help me enhance the podcast. Cristanne Miller’s Emily Dickinson’s Poems As She Preserved Them Edmund Spenser’s 1596 pamphlet, “View on the Present State of Irelande,” in which he offers brutal recommendations to subdue the Irish colony. His poem, “The Faerie Queene” Other Dickinson poems mentioned in the conversation: At least to pray is left, is left.O Jesus! in the airI know not which thy chamber is, --I ‘m knocking everywhere. Thou stirrest earthquake in the South,And maelstrom in the sea;Say, Jesus Christ of Nazareth,Hast thou no arm for me? Fact checks, people, books, & concepts mentioned: “I don’t abide doctrine” is what I quoted. The accurate quotation is actually “I do not respect doctrines.” (Letter 200, February 13, 1859) Emily Dickinson and the Religious Imagination (by Linda Freedman) “I never was with any one who drained my nerve power so much. Without touching her, she drew from me. I am glad not to live near her.” L342A (Johnson edition), August 16, 1870 T.W. Higginson to his wife, about his meeting with ED Michael Symmons Robert Information about Jay Ruka and the Maori rituals Pádraig refers to can be found here. Frank O’Hara The Walter De la Mare quote “Is there anybody there? said the traveler” – from his poem “The Listeners” and here is Pádraig’s Poetry Unbound episode on that poem. Jane Wong’s Melody or Witchcraft episode. Recorded May 20, 2026. Thanks for being a listener! If you enjoyed this, please like the post or leave us a comment! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

  8. Aug 10

    Bonus Bit: Pádraig Ó Tuama

    This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Pádraig Ó Tuama for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Here’s what’s in each of the four snippets: 1. A final request ritual that happened at Corrymeela Peace and Reconciliation organization. 2. Examples of the importance of contexts, religious and poetic. 3. Reading Emily Dickinson during a challenging time in Pádraig’s conflict mediation work. 4. A ritual gesture among friends where one had lost a son—an expanded definition of ritual. Thanks for being a listener! Will you click LIKE so I know you were here? Pádraig mentions the Dickinson famous poem “Because I could not stop for Death.” Here it is: Because I could not stop for Death -He kindly stopped for me -The Carriage held but just Ourselves -And Immortality. We slowly drove - He knew no hasteAnd I had put awayMy labor and my leisure too,For His Civility - We passed the School, where Children stroveAt Recess - in the Ring -We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain -We passed the Setting Sun - Or rather - He passed Us -The Dews drew quivering and Chill -For only Gossamer, my Gown -My Tippet - only Tulle - We paused before a House that seemedA Swelling of the Ground -The Roof was scarcely visible -The Cornice - in the Ground - Since then - ‘tis Centuries - and yetFeels shorter than the DayI first surmised the Horses’ HeadsWere toward Eternity - This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

    Bonus Bit: Pádraig Ó Tuama
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Conversations with today's poets and writers about Emily Dickinson and about the scope and sources of creative influence and the relevance of the past. Guests choose a Dickinson poem and one of their own to read. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com

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