The Vermont Conversation with David Goodman

VTDigger

The Vermont Conversation is a VTDigger podcast hosted by award-winning journalist David Goodman. It features in-depth interviews about local and national topics with politicians, activists, artists, changemakers and ordinary citizens. The Vermont Conversation is also an hour-long weekly radio program that can be heard on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. on WDEV/Radio Vermont.

  1. 4일 전

    A former EPA official on how the plastics industry sabotages real recycling

    “Plastic is everywhere — wrapped around our food, stitched into our clothes, even coursing through our veins.” That’s how Judith Enck begins her new book, "The Problem with Plastic: How We Can Save Ourselves and our Planet Before It’s Too Late," co-authored with Adam Mohoney.  A former regional administrator for the Environmental Protection Agency, Enck warns that plastics are a toxic industry that are poisoning people and the environment. Plastic production has gone from two million tons per year in 1950, to 450 million tons per year today.  The plastics industry has spent millions selling the material as safe and sustainable, but only 6% of plastic is recycled. Plastic recycling is a “false solution,” Enck said. “Plastic recycling has never worked. Never will work.”  The plastics industry has “spent millions of dollars advertising, telling us, 'don't worry about all the plastic you're generating,' just toss it in your recycling bin. That is deceptive, and it is so deceptive that the Attorney General of California Rob Bonta sued the nation's largest maker of plastic, the little mom and pop company known as Exxon Mobil, for deceptive claims around plastics recycling and chemical recycling.” Plastic never breaks down. It breaks up into smaller microplastics, circulating in the environment for centuries, said Enck. “16,000 different chemicals are used to make plastic, and the chemicals will sometimes hitchhike on the microplastics. So we're having the physical presence of microplastics in our bodies, but also the presence of chemicals that are used to make plastic, including PFAS chemicals, lead, mercury, formaldehyde.” Microplastics have been found in lungs, testicles, blood, breast milk and semen. They are associated with a rise in reproductive cancers, cardiovascular disease and diabetes, among other ailments. The plastics industry has deployed an army of lobbyists to beat back attempts to limit the use of plastics. As an example, Enck cites New York’s effort this year to consider “a comprehensive packaging reduction bill that will reduce all single use packaging by 30% over 12 years.” “This was the most lobbied bill in the 2026 legislative session in nearby Albany,” said Enck, noting that “there were 106 registered lobbyists against this bill, and 24 in support. I have never seen so many special interest lobbyists wandering the halls of the State Capitol in Albany, including the final night of the legislative session, where they killed the bill on the assembly floor after it passed in the State Senate.” That experience has led Enck to conclude that "reducing plastic in our bodies, in our environment, in Lake Champlain, in the ocean, is more of a political science issue than a science issue. We have enough science to act.” Judith Enck was appointed EPA regional administrator by President Obama and she has served as deputy secretary for the environment in New York. She is now a professor at Bennington College and the founder and president of Beyond Plastics, a group that works to eliminate plastic pollution. Enck insisted that in addition to political action, individuals can take steps to minimize their exposure to plastic. “I suggest that people start with their kitchen, because that's where most of the plastic is, and that's where the greatest risk is in terms of exposure in your food. Do not put plastic in your microwave. Get rid of black plastic utensils in your kitchen drawers, because black plastic is made from recycled electronic waste. Get rid of your plastic cutting board. Replace it with either wood or steel. Do a little audit of what's your heaviest use of plastic. For instance, if you drink a lot of juice, instead of buying it in plastic jugs, buy frozen concentrate and make it in a glass pitcher. There are steps like that we can take.”

    33분
  2. 12월 3일

    A Vermont Jewish student banished from Israel speaks out

    Leila Stillman-Utterback graduated from Middlebury Union High School in June and decided to take a gap year to pursue a dream. The 18-year-old Vermonter traveled to Israel to participate in a solidarity program that included volunteering with Rabbis for Human Rights in the Israeli-occupied West Bank to help Palestinians harvest olives. She was part of an effort to provide “protective presence” for Palestinians who are under constant attack from right-wing Israeli settlers. She said she wanted to live the Jewish values of tikkun olam (repairing the world) and b’tselem elohim (a belief that everyone is created in God’s image).  On October 29, Stillman-Utterback was detained by Israeli soldiers, spent a night handcuffed in a police station and was accused of violating the terms of her tourist visa by entering a closed military zone. After being hauled before a judge at 3 a.m., she was deported and banned from Israel for 10 years. Leila’s treatment at the hands of Israeli authorities was deeply personal for her mother. Danielle Stillman is the rabbi of Middlebury College. She teaches the values that Leila is living. Her daughter is now paying the price.  The Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu may have hoped that by coming down hard on a young American activist that it would silence her. The opposite has occurred. Stillman-Utterback has spoken out in multiple interviews in the Israeli press.  “My deportation felt like a betrayal,” wrote Stillman-Utterback in a powerful essay about her ordeal in The Forward, an independent Jewish American news publication. “Israel was supposed to be for me, for every Jew. But the settler movement and the current government would like to redefine what it means to be Jewish along political lines.” Stillman-Utterback rejects the notion that criticizing Israel is somehow antisemitic. “I've grown up my entire life with a connection to Israel, with a love for it even,” she told The Vermont Conversation. “I have also grown up my entire life being allowed to be critical of Israel and … frustrated [and] angry.” She added that it was essential that “in a time of real rising antisemitism globally, that we are able to hold criticism and love at the same time. I really do think that it's possible.” Stillman-Utterback’s treatment is part of a larger crackdown on Palestinians and Jewish activists by the Israeli government and right-wing settlers who operate with near impunity in Palestinian communities. In October, there were 126 olive harvest-related settler attacks against Palestinians, and Israel detained and deported 32 foreign activists who were accompanying Palestinian harvesters near the town of Burin, according to the UN’s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. Stillman-Utterback, who two years ago was named a Bronfman Fellow, a cohort of high-achieving Jewish teens, is appealing her ban from Israel and is committed to staying engaged. “We need to maintain our relationships in order to show that there are people who are committed to a peaceful and just future. It doesn't matter what it looks like, whether it's a two state solution, whether it's binational, it only matters that that we end the violence and that we end the occupation, that we move towards equality. Any movement towards equality and towards an end in violence, towards accountability for settler actions, is a move in the right direction.” Rabbi Danielle Stillman said that she’s “inspired by [Leila’s] principled willingness to hang in with Israel despite this really harrowing, dramatic experience, and that that really comes from her Jewish values … to contribute to building a better society in a place that she's come to really care about.” Rabbi Stillman said that American Jews are deeply divided about Israel, especially along generational lines. A recent Washington Post survey found that just over half of Jewish Americans — and two thirds of those over 65 — say they are emotionally attached to Israel, but only about one third of those ages 18 to 34 feel that attachment. About half of younger Jews are more likely to say Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, compared to about one third of older Jews. Leila’s arrest and expulsion “just makes me really concerned about the future of the relationship between Israel and the diaspora, between American Jews and Israeli Jews,” said Rabbi Stillman. Rabbi Stillman criticized how antisemitism is being “used in a certain way to further an agenda of silencing solidarity with Palestinians and silencing speech in general on many college campuses.” Leila Stillman-Utterback is now back home in Middlebury figuring out what she will do with the rest of her gap year before attending Williams College in the fall of 2026. She expressed gratitude towards her parents. “I was taught to always stay in a place of not knowing, even if it's uncomfortable, and I feel immensely grateful for never being told that only one answer is right, and for always being taught to live in that liminal space.”

    41분
  3. 11월 26일

    VTDigger Editor-in-Chief Geeta Anand on rebuilding trust through local news

    Every week, two local newspapers close somewhere in the country. Some 50 million Americans have limited to no access to local news. That may increase with loss of public media funding.  What is the future of journalism in an age where truth itself is under attack?  Local news is essential because “that's where rebuilding confidence in facts and truth starts,” said VTDigger editor in chief Geeta Anand. We spoke at a public event at the Manchester Community Library on Nov. 11.  “If you've actually gone to a meeting and seen a story based on it and met the reporter and it actually seems the article matches what you heard, then you begin to disbelieve the discrediting of journalism that is happening, led by the leaders of our country, which is having a devastating effect on our democracy.” Anand’s career as a journalist and author spans the globe. Her stories on corporate corruption in the Wall Street Journal earned her a Pulitzer Prize in 2002, and she was a finalist again in 2003. Her book, "The Cure," about a father’s fight to save his kids by starting a company to make a medicine for their untreatable illness, was made into the 2010 movie, Extraordinary Measures, starring Harrison Ford. She was a foreign correspondent for The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal in India.  Anand’s roots in journalism are in covering local news. She worked at Cape Cod News and then covered local government and courts at the Rutland Herald. In 2018, she became a professor at the UC Berkeley journalism school, where she was dean in 2020. She was at Berkeley until taking over leadership of VTDigger in July 2025.  Anand spoke about how local journalism is a critical link in the information ecosystem. “Our coverage right now of immigrants getting picked up and spirited off to other parts of the country -- that's the way the world finds out that these things are happening. Our stories get picked up by national media, and the national media hold our national leaders accountable. We matter to you here in Vermont, but we're also a key part of the web of national and international news.” Anand said that for community and democracy to function, it is critical to support local news. “If we aren't vibrant, if we're not there at the city council meeting or at the school board meeting and telling those stories, government isn't held accountable. It's almost like these things haven't happened if we're not there.” Thanks to Greater Northshire Access Television for recording this conversation.

    39분
  4. 11월 19일

    'We don’t have a safety net': A Vermont family confronts a future without health insurance

    The health care apocalypse has arrived.  In the past month, many of the 30,000 Vermonters who get their health insurance through Vermont Health Connect — part of the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare as it's popularly known — are experiencing sticker shock. Average health insurance premiums on Vermont Health Connect are projected to more than double, the highest rate increases countrywide. This is a disaster foretold. Democrats in Congress have warned for months that unless pandemic-era health insurance subsidies were extended, the 24 million Americans who get their health insurance through ACA marketplaces would see astronomical price hikes. Yet, despite a 43 day government shutdown, Republicans in Congress and President Trump refused to extend subsidies.  The price tag for inaction has just arrived. Vermonters are now faced with excruciating choices. Middle-income participants are facing additional premiums of $10,000 per year for individuals and $32,000 for a family of four. Others are considering going without insurance all together.  “We can't take out a second mortgage on our house to afford one year of health insurance,” said Arica Bronz, a pilates instructor in Williston, where she lives with her husband, a primary care physician, and their two daughters.  Bronz’s monthly family premium will rise from $1,100 to $2,700 per month in 2026. After factoring in a $15,000 annual deductible, she said that in case of a serious medical event, her family will pay $47,000 before their insurance kicks in.  Bronz feels she has no choice. She is going to cancel health care coverage for her family. “We're trying to get all the scans done and just make sure we're tip-top healthy before we make the leap. I can't tell you how much sleep I've lost considering what it's like to jump in this day and age to no health care for a family.” If too many people drop health care coverage, experts warn that Vermont’s struggling health care financing system could enter a death spiral.  “I have a tremendous fear that what we are watching before us is the undoing, the dismantling of our healthcare financing system,” said Michael Fisher, Vermont’s chief health care advocate. “This is devastating and it's self-inflicted. And the majority in Congress think it's the right thing to do." Fisher nevertheless said that those whose income falls within 400% of the federal poverty level — around $130,000 for a family of four — may still qualify for subsidized health care premiums. As Arica Bronz contemplates a future without health insurance, she said, “We don't have a safety net. Hopefully that will inspire us to just be really thoughtful and careful. ... It's kinda terrifying.”

    34분
  5. 11월 12일

    Maria Stephan on the 3.5% Rule and how nonviolent protest can stop authoritarianism

    The No Kings protests in October, which drew over seven million people across the country, were hailed as the largest demonstrations in American history. Now the question for many people is: What works to stop authoritarianism? Maria Stephan has been studying this question. Her award-winning book, “Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict,” co-authored with Erica Chenoweth of Harvard, examines a century of resistance movements around the world. They determined that nonviolent protests are more than twice as likely to succeed as armed conflicts. Chenoweth went on to coin the widely cited 3.5% Rule, which states that when 3.5% of the population protest nonviolently, the movement will win.  “When you have 3.5% of a population, which in the United States is roughly 12 million people, that means a movement is representative. It's hard to ignore. It's highly disruptive. And behind those 3.5% are many, many more people who support the aims of the movement,” Stephan told The Vermont Conversation. Maria Stephan was a strategic planner with the U.S. Department of State and founded and directed the Program on Nonviolent Action at the U.S. Institute of Peace. She is the author and editor of five books on authoritarianism and civil resistance. She was born and raised in Vermont and currently lives in New York City, where she is chief organizer with the Horizons Project, which she describes as “building a strong pro-democracy front that brings people together from different parts of society to effectively counter authoritarianism in the U.S.”  Stephan highlighted the many tactics of the movement against authoritarianism. “We know from studying nonviolent resistance campaigns against authoritarian regimes around the world that it's the organized acts of non-cooperation — when people withhold their consumer buying power, when workers withhold labor, when security forces refuse to use repression vis a vis peaceful protesters — these acts of non-cooperation are what is really key to the success of pro-democracy movements, and we're seeing this across the country.” She cited examples of “people taking courageous stands both as individuals and collectively.” These include “the powerful image of the Idaho teacher, Sarah Inama, who refused to take down the sign ‘Everyone is Welcome Here’ in her classroom, which resulted in the whole community mobilizing in support of inclusive classrooms.” There was Rachel Cohen, “the young lawyer who left her law firm after it capitulated to Trump. She not only left the firm, she organized thousands of lawyers to similarly commit to not be part of firms that engage in that type of capitulation.”  Stephan said that in the higher education sector, “seven out of nine universities have refused a higher education compact offered by the Trump administration that would have offered access to federal funding in exchange for various forms of censorship on campus.” And the World Champion Los Angeles Dodgers, she said, refused ICE agents access to their grounds to coordinate arrests of immigrants and undocumented people. “For all these reasons and all the powerful, joyful, creative acts of defiance and community care I'm seeing across the country. I believe we will prevail.”

    34분
  6. 11월 5일

    Pianist Adam Tendler transforms his father’s death into 'little masterpieces'

    On New Year’s Day 2020, Adam Tendler unexpectedly received his father’s final gift: a wad of cash stuffed into a manila envelope handed over in the parking lot of a Denny’s restaurant in West Lebanon, NH. The strangely furtive exchange launched a musical journey. Tendler, a renowned concert pianist who grew up in Barre decided to use his inheritance to commission an all-star cast of modern composers to compose piano pieces exploring the theme of inheritance. In his pitch to his composer friends, Tendler wrote that he wanted “to plant that cash in the soil of something that may actually grow and — if you'll forgive me — live on.”  To his amazement, every composer he wrote to agreed to contribute. The result is a critically acclaimed album and concert tour called Inheritances, which the New York Times has called a collection of “little masterpieces.” Tendler will perform Inheritances at the Barre Opera House on November 16. Tendler initially did not know what to do with the money that he received. Taking a trip or paying down a credit card seemed inadequate. “This is an inheritance so something should be done with it that sort of honors the gesture,” he told The Vermont Conversation.  “The thing I do for a living is ideally creating experiences for people … which [are] cathartic and beautiful and [provide] a sense of connection,” he said. “What if I use it to facilitate that experience for people?” Tendler originally told his story in a 2023 essay for the New York Times, “My Father’s Death, An Envelope of Cash, A Legacy in Music.” Adam Tendler is a Grammy-nominated pianist and a recipient of the Lincoln Center Award for Emerging Artists and the Yvar Mikhashoff Prize. The Minneapolis Star Tribune called him "currently the hottest pianist on the American contemporary classical scene." After graduating from Indiana University, Tendler performed solo recitals in all fifty states as part of a grassroots tour he called America 88x50. He has appeared as soloist with the London Symphony Orchestra, LA Philharmonic, Sydney Symphony Orchestra, Toronto Symphony and at Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center and other venues. He is on the piano faculty of the Steinhardt School at New York University.  Tendler took a circuitous route from Barre to the concert stages of the world. After college, he worked at the landfill in Coventry and was a substitute teacher at U32 and Twinfield high schools. His relationship to his hometown is both affectionate and ambivalent.  “I love Barre, I love Vermont, but it wasn't really the most easy place to grow up as a queer kid,” he recalled. “Music was a safety hatch … a real place within which I could hide, protect myself, express myself. I created a little fortress within it." "That vessel motivated me to actually start to really train to the point of getting into conservatory.” Tendler said that his work on Inheritances transformed his complicated feelings about his “semi-estranged” father “into something that feels like a companion in a good way.” “This project and having to sort of confront him on a human level, even though we're talking about music, has brought me back to him. I am my father's son. We are family.”

    39분
  7. 10월 29일

    Rep. Jamie Raskin on 'the fight of our lives' under President Donald Trump

    In 2016, Jamie Raskin was elected to Congress from Maryland just as Donald Trump was first elected president. Raskin, a former constitutional law professor, and Trump, a real estate developer who flouts rules and shatters norms, have been locked in a struggle ever since. When Congress impeached Trump in 2021 for inciting an insurrection, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi tapped Raskin to be lead impeachment manager, essentially Trump’s chief prosecutor. He subsequently served on the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.  Raskin is now the Ranking Member of the powerful House Judiciary Committee and has been a vocal adversary of the Trump administration. In the past few weeks, he has accused U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Krisi Noem of “unlawfully detaining U.S. citizens,” demanded that Trump explain “a blatantly illegal and unconstitutional effort to steal $230 million from the American people” and denounced “military-style tactics” in Chicago.  Jamie Raskin represents Maryland’s 8th Congressional District, which borders Washington, D.C. He has authored several books, including the bestseller “Unthinkable: Trauma, Truth and the Trials of American Democracy,” a searing exploration of the death of his son and the struggle to defend democracy under Trump.  I spoke with Rep. Raskin on Tuesday as the government shutdown approached the one month mark.

    35분
  8. 10월 22일

    Vermont Conversations: A field report from Vermont's historic 'No Kings' rallies

    They are being described as possibly “the biggest ever mass demonstrations in American history.” More than 7 million people participated in No Kings protests on Saturday, October 18 across more than 2,700 events in all 50 states, Washington, D.C., and in cities around the world. In Vermont, organizers estimate that some 43,000 people participated in more than 40 events around the state. People came out to protest the Trump administration’s targeting of immigrants, LGBTQ+ rights, public education, the government shutdown and more. At the Vermont State House, where some 6,500 people gathered in cool fall weather, U.S. Rep. Becca Balint, D-Vt., fired up the crowd with a call to fight back against Trump’s authoritarianism. Then she talked about the hero’s journey, an archetype in mythology and narrative storytelling (think Star Wars and the Hunger Games) that involves an ordinary person who faces a challenge, embarks on a journey, triumphs over adversity and returns transformed. “I know that many of you feel anxious, you feel scared, you feel overwhelmed,” Balint told the crowd. “We have to see this as part of a hero's journey that we are all on together. We must shift our thinking into believing that we, each of us, embody that hero is going to lead us to a better day. And what I know is the first step on the hero's journey is answering the call. And that is what you have done today. You are answering the call.” Asked about the deepening impact of the federal shutdown, Balint told the Vermont Conversation, “Millions of people are at risk of losing their health care, and we know that health care right now is one of the things that is making it incredibly emotionally, psychologically, economically devastating for families. We have to fight for health care, and we also have to say to this President, No, you will not bully us into submission. We're not going to sell out our people back home because we're afraid of your wrath.” Millions of Americans are receiving notices of soaring health care premiums as Congress remains deadlocked over extending Covid-era subsidies, as demanded by Democrats. Premiums will rise by 18 percent on average, according to the nonpartisan health policy group KFF. Sen. Peter Welch advised Vermonters to hang in there. “We don't know how this is going to end, but we know that the only real chance it has to end well is if we show that we are committed to democracy and we're willing to act together.” Welch said that Trump sending troops to cities led by Democrats is “just a lawless exercise. It's a prelude to him potentially sending troops in if he doesn't like the vote outcome in the next election.” I asked Paul Burns, an attorney and the longtime executive director of the Vermont Public Interest Research Group, whether he believed the legal system was up to the task of defending democratic institutions. “We're seeing a Supreme Court where decisions appear no longer based on legal principles or court precedents," he said. "The court has no compunction about turning its back on long standing principles on any sense of consistency under the law. Absent that, we have to wonder whether the law can be there for us in any way that it has been in the past. And so I am deeply concerned.” Burns said that what gives him hope is “looking over at my 14 year old son and he and other young people who bring to this an earnestness and an openness and interest in just living their lives in a free way, a belief still that we can and must have a democracy here. They are not tainted or jaded or cynical." He vowed to do "everything that I can to try to make this better.” Clara White, a 14-year old eighth grade student from Montpelier, had a distinctive voice and message among the lineup of politicians and activists. She said that “people my age, we are not just sitting around waiting. We are more connected than generations before us. We care about each other. We know how to share information, organize online and learn from people all over the world. We are creative problem solvers because we have had to be.” She cited examples of of how young people in her community “started a Green Up Day program, came together to feed families in need, and volunteered at a summer camp to help other girls feel empowered.” "I choose hope because I've seen what happens when people come together. I choose hope because giving up is not an option. I choose hope because I believe in us."

    37분
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The Vermont Conversation is a VTDigger podcast hosted by award-winning journalist David Goodman. It features in-depth interviews about local and national topics with politicians, activists, artists, changemakers and ordinary citizens. The Vermont Conversation is also an hour-long weekly radio program that can be heard on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. on WDEV/Radio Vermont.

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