Ministry Without Hating It

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill
  • 5.0 (10)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Monthly

Is it possible to do ministry without hating it? We have a theory that it just might be. Join us in our pursuit to answer this question through the stories of ministry leaders who have been where you're at, and pick up the wisdom they've earned in the trenches of their own ministry journeys.

  1. #58: Were the Spice Girls a Good Team? | Team Dynamics, Goals & Running Lanes feat. Salina Gordon & AJ Williams

    May 15

    #58: Were the Spice Girls a Good Team? | Team Dynamics, Goals & Running Lanes feat. Salina Gordon & AJ Williams

    What started as a throwaway, icebreaker question, has officially become an entire episode. For this roundtable conversation, we brought in NextGen Pastor and Spice Girls Super Fan, Salina Gordon, along with MWH’s very own AJ Williams, to answer a question that’s deeper than you might think.  Asking, “Were the Spice Girls a good team,” actually opens up an entire discussion around team dynamics, individual personalities, balanced vs. specialized roles, running lanes, team goals, sustainability and what actually defines a “good team”. Like we said, it’s deeper than you think. Join us, it’s time to “Spice Up” this podcast! Resources Highlighted in this Interview:  Connect further with Salina at Illuminatemuncie.comConnect further with AJ at churchoftheopendoor.snappages.siteGuest Bio: Salina Gordon has served as the NextGen Pastor at Illuminate Muncie (Muncie, IN) for the last three years, bringing plenty of “Spice Up Your Life” energy to every team and ministry she leads. Through children’s ministry, camp directing, and D.IV.E. team leadership, she’s learned that if you “Wannabe” a strong leader, you have to build people up, encourage collaboration, and know when to “Stop” playing it safe. She believes in taking “risks” on leaders, because friendship never really ends when a team is growing together with purpose. Whether helping volunteers find their voice or guiding students through leadership development, Salina works to make every ministry space a little more “Viva Forever” — full of growth, confidence, and passion for the next generation. AJ Williams is the Associate Pastor at Church of the Open Door in Clinton, Iowa, and serves as the Iowa NextGen Regional Mobilizer for the Foursquare Central District. Alongside his beautiful wife, Taylor Rel-Williams, and their daughter, Billie Rae-Ann Williams, AJ is passionate about helping people encounter Jesus in a way they feel seen, heard, and so loved that they are also sharing who Jesus is to those around them. Having served in NextGen ministry across Iowa since 2018, AJ eventually returned to his hometown to continue serving the community that helped shape him. His heart for ministry is centered on helping people discover that they are seen, loved, and created with purpose by God. Episode Credits:  Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

    38 min
  2. #57: You Can’t Declare “Safe” | Becoming Safe(r) feat. BrianJames McMahon

    May 1

    #57: You Can’t Declare “Safe” | Becoming Safe(r) feat. BrianJames McMahon

    We want to be safe people. We might think that we are safe people, and oftentimes we do become very safe for people. But pastoring is not a safe experience. In this episode we kick off our first Brave Conversations Episode in collaboration with Church Well Co, and BrianJames McMahon. Together we unpack the truth that just because we say “this is a safe space” within relationship, it does not necessarily mean others automatically feel safe. Let's discover what the journey to “Becoming Safe(r)” really means in our life and leadership.   Resources Highlighted in this Interview:  Church Well Co WebsiteBrianJames Therapy Websitehttps://churchwell.co/articles/safe-communitiesConnect further with BrianJames at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_coGuest Bio: BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection. BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery. Episode Credits:  Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

    31 min
  3. #56: Leading From the 2nd Chair | An Executive Pastor’s Perspective feat. Starla Smith

    Apr 15

    #56: Leading From the 2nd Chair | An Executive Pastor’s Perspective feat. Starla Smith

    How do you lead when you are ultimately not the one in charge? In this episode we sit down with Starla Smith, who serves as an Executive Pastor, to break down what leadership from the 2nd chair looks like. Starla shares stories from her ministry journey of unexpectedly finding herself in roles of authority, what she’s learned from seasons of transition and her intentionality to keep touch points with people just as important as the tasks of the role.  Get your thinking emoji loaded up for this one, because the 2nd chair matters!   Resources Highlighted in this Interview:  Connect further with Starla hereGuest Bio: Executive Pastor · Author · Overcomer, Starla Smith is a wife, mother of two, and proud grandma — or "Lala," as her four grandkids call her. But beyond the roles she treasures most, she's also a pastor with a story few would have predicted. An unlikely minister by her own admission, Starla's journey in faith began simply — serving in youth groups at the very church where she now leads as executive pastor. She didn't chase a title; she was faithful to each open door, and those doors led her further than she ever imagined. A writer, adventurer, teacher, and lover of deep conversation, Starla brings her whole self to every room she enters. Her heart beats for one thing above all: encouraging others to live fearlessly — no matter what they're facing. "To live my life as an example of one who overcomes — sharing my story to encourage others to live fearlessly in the face of every struggle, that I might be faithful in all He asks, moving forward through trusting in His love." Episode Credits:  Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

    1h 10m
  4. #55: Who Are You Discipling? | Asking for a Friend feat. Timmy Hensel & Melissa Brotherton

    Mar 15

    #55: Who Are You Discipling? | Asking for a Friend feat. Timmy Hensel & Melissa Brotherton

    As a ministry leader, if you were asked “Who are you discipling,” how would you answer? What if we said preaching and leading classes don’t count? Starts getting real, real fast! In this episode, Timmy Hensel & Melissa Brotherton return for a round table discussion about why this question can be uncomfortable, yet so necessary to keep at the forefront of our ministry. We’ll get practical in implementing discipleship practices, what gets in the way of actually doing it, creating a discipleship culture in our church, shifting away from the shame of asking the question, and ultimately measuring fruitfulness in the process.  Whether we stay on script, or not, this Shop Talk is for you–er, I mean, your friend! Resources Highlighted in this Interview:  DiscipleShift: Five Steps That Help Your Church to Make Disciples Who Make Disciples by Jim Putman & Bobby Harrington with Robert ColemanOrdinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation by Jessie CruickshankAfter Doubt: How to Question Your Faith Without Losing It by A.J. SwobodaGuest Bio: Timmy Hensel and his wife 'Tisha are the co-pastors of River Church Family in Kansas City, Missouri. They’re high school sweethearts that have been happily married for 25 years and have three children: Kai, Asher and Brynnlie. Together with their church family they own and operate a community swimming pool and helped to launch a local nonprofit transitional housing program, River of Refuge. Timmy serves as the Central Southeast Regional Pastor overseeing Foursquare churches in Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of Kansas and Illinois. Timmy graduated from Life Pacific College in 2002 with a BA in Biblical Studies and in 2017 with a MA in Strategic Leadership. He was ordained in the Foursquare Church in 2005.  Timmy is humbled and honored to serve, develop, and celebrate other pastors and leaders throughout our Foursquare family. Timmy loves his city and spends time connecting through various social communities, raising awareness for causes that benefit their neighbors, and involvement in local opportunities to support individuals who have special needs, like his daughter Brynnlie. Timmy loves the sound of frogs and thinks it's God's special way of saying He loves him. Melissa Brotherton is the lead pastor of Hope Boulder Foursquare church in Boulder, CO, the Foursquare Central District Women’s Mobilizer and a chaplain for the Boulder Fire Department. She was born and raised in the shadow of Mount Rainier in the Pacific Northwest. She now calls the shadow of the Rocky Mountains (in Colorado) home, where she lives with her husband and four children. She’s a voracious reader, a lackadaisical knitter, an avid Seahawks fan, and deeply devoted to Jesus and her family. Melissa has a masters in Strategic Leadership from Life Pacific University and is passionate about seeing people step into their true identity as image-bearers of Christ and what that means for how they live their lives. Episode Credits:  Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

    1h 19m
  5. #54: Always Another Side to the Story | Positivity & Perspective From Kid’s Ministry feat. Lesli Klingenmeier

    Feb 15

    #54: Always Another Side to the Story | Positivity & Perspective From Kid’s Ministry feat. Lesli Klingenmeier

    In this episode, we sit down with the ever-positive Pastor Lesli Klingenmeier! Through the lens of her decades in Children’s Ministry, and as a denominational leader, Lesli shares wisdom on the value of bi-vocational ministry, the changing landscape of Kids Ministry and the importance of always sharing stories. Lesli believes that when navigating through the challenges of ministry, the path to greater positivity is as simple as shifting our focus to what could be, over what is.  Lesli also gets BONUS points for incorporating her own pastoral alliteration in the interview. Let’s fire it up! Resources Highlighted in this Interview:  Connect further with Lesli HereInfo on the Cornerstone ProjectGuest Bio: Lesli often jokes that she’s a bit of a poster child for the Foursquare Church. Her grandparents were part of the founding families of the Amherst Foursquare Church in Ohio, and Lesli grew up through the church attending kids camp, youth camps, and whatever Foursquare event she could find. She first sensed a call to ministry as a teenager, especially through her experiences at summer camps. But after some loving encouragement from her parents to get a “real career,” Lesli went to college, earning a bachelor’s degree in Psychology and a master’s degree in Occupational Therapy. She worked as an occupational therapist for five years before God made it clear it was time to step away from a stable career and follow His lead into full-time ministry. Making that decision at 28 was both terrifying and freeing. Her first ministry role was part-time as a Children’s Pastor at her home church, where she ended up serving for 12 years and watching God do incredible things in both the church and the community. From there, Lesli served for 10 years as the NextGen Coordinator for the Northeast Atlantic District, working with and training leaders across 15 states as well as coordinating youth and kids camps and young adult retreats. Since 2020, Lesli has returned to local church ministry at GrowPoint Church in Amherst. She describes herself as a “utility pastor,” helping wherever needed, with a primary focus on leading Kids Ministry and Women’s Ministry, two areas she deeply loves. Lesli also serves as a Lead Coach for the national Foursquare Cornerstone Project where she coaches NextGen leaders across the U.S. in leading their churches to deepen their focus on family discipleship. At the heart of everything Lesli does is a passion to see people of all ages grow in their love for Jesus and become thriving followers of Christ for a lifetime. Lesli's favorite season of the year is summer and loves anything summer-related, especially golf, and can usually be found on the course every Friday playing in a local women’s league. Episode Credits:  Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

    1h 7m
  6. #53: Love Hard | The Cost of Truly Loving Well feat. Antonio Sims

    Jan 15

    #53: Love Hard | The Cost of Truly Loving Well feat. Antonio Sims

    If I love hard, it’s going to cost me something. That is what our first guest of Season Five, Foursquare Central District Supervisor and Pastor, Antonio Sims, leads with as he jumps all into the ministry set before him. In this episode, Antonio shares how his desire to love well comes from a history of pain points, and how it has translated into his roles as a church planter, pastor and denomination leader. If I truly love others, I should feel it–and expect a praise report. We also definitively mark the best decade, and certainly date ourselves doing it, so let’s fire this season up! Resources Highlighted in this Interview:  To connect further with Antonio click hereGuest Bio: Antonio Sims is the Foursquare Central District Supervisor and an ordained Foursquare pastor with a deep passion for transformation at every level, within organizations, cities, and individuals. As the founder and co-pastor of True Worship Church, Antonio and his wife, Nina, are dedicated to serving the Detroit community. With a heart for leadership development, Antonio mentors and coaches church planters, equipping them to build thriving, impactful ministries. His leadership extends beyond the local church, having served on the board of the Foursquare Church and currently on the board of the International Hope Center. Antonio holds an MBA with a ministry focus and a Master’s in Human Services Counseling with a concentration in Executive Leadership. His diverse experiences include serving as a U.S. Marine, bringing a unique blend of discipline, resilience, and strategic vision to his work. Born in Vietnam and raised in Detroit, Antonio is deeply committed to both his faith and his family. He and Nina are proud parents of six children and grandparents to one beautiful grandson. Episode Credits:  Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

    1h 14m
  7. #52: Don’t Hit Cruise Control | Stop Paying Your Insecurity Bill feat. Chad Halverson

    12/15/2025

    #52: Don’t Hit Cruise Control | Stop Paying Your Insecurity Bill feat. Chad Halverson

    Is it possible to get to a place in ministry where things seem easy, and less challenging? Bi-vocational Pastor, Chad Halverson, says, “Yes”. But it’s not the promised land that you might think. In this episode, Chad recalls the major shift he experienced going from only ever being in full-time vocational ministry to moving cross country twice within a year, picking up two marketplace jobs, and all the lessons he is still learning from stepping outside of the insecurity of what is "safe". You’re getting two Chad’s for the price of one for this season’s finale, so let’s get to it! Resources Highlighted in this Interview:  Connect further with Chad at wintersetfoursquare.orgGuest Bio: Chad Halverson has served in the Pastoral ministry for over 30 years. Since leaving full time vocational ministry in 2022, he and his family have settled in Winterset, IA where he is an assisting minister in the Winterset Foursquare Church. He vocationally works for a large farm coop, but continues to have a heart for the local church, church health and pastoral care.  Growing up in the Midwest, he attended Life Pacific University and has been a licensed Foursquare Pastor since 1996. He is married to his beautiful wife, Kerri, of 23 years and has four (mostly) amazing kids. This new bi-vocational chapter in his life has been a challenge, and a great reminder of God’s desired presence in the secular, everyday, mundane Monday through Friday weekly life. Episode Credits:  Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

    1h 11m
  8. #51: Which Bull in the Draw? | The Adventure of God’s Church feat. Jesse Lambert

    11/15/2025

    #51: Which Bull in the Draw? | The Adventure of God’s Church feat. Jesse Lambert

    Ministry is a lot like bull riding. Each day you wake up, and you never know which bull you’re gonna get. In this episode Pastor and Church Planter, Jesse Lambert, unpacks the adventure that has been his journey to serve God’s Church. Jesse talks about how he’s learned to walk out practically, “this is God’s church, made up of hurting people and I am a tool to bring healing.” And that journey may not take you to where you thought you were going.  We’re doin’ the blue for this one, so let’s get at it! Resources Highlighted in this Interview:  Connect further with Jesse at The Refuge TexasGuest Bio: Jesse Lambert grew up as a military kid and later went and served his country as a United States Marine. The military was a huge part of the Lambert family…one could say it was family tradition as 90% of the family served at one point in their lives. Jesse is one of those guys that can do most anything…and since his military he has owned several small businesses, he even ran remote cameras as an assistant producer for live shows in Branson, MO. Jesse has been married for 23 years to his wife Rebecca and together they have two amazing boys. Asher is 15 and Gideon is 12…they all serve the Lord as a family and enjoy time away in nature…either in the mountains snowboarding or at the beach Surfing! Now the Lord is using him and his stories to lead others to Jesus as a Pastor of The Refuge TX in Georgetown, TX. In the past Jesse has served the community and church by helping in children's church, youth group, and leading adults in community groups. Jesse has been involved in everything from media teams and set-up/tear down to leading men and family groups. Folks love that he is approachable and kind, and he challenges them to grow as disciples of Jesus and as leaders in their community. Jesse is an anointed speaker, and feels humbled that the Holy Spirit would choose to use him to serve in His church. Episode Credits:  Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams Produced by Chad Garrison Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It: Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

    1h 17m
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About

Is it possible to do ministry without hating it? We have a theory that it just might be. Join us in our pursuit to answer this question through the stories of ministry leaders who have been where you're at, and pick up the wisdom they've earned in the trenches of their own ministry journeys.

Information

  • Creator
    Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    58
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Ministry Without Hating It
  • Show Website
    Ministry Without Hating It

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