Building With Buyers: Startup Marketing and Growth Fueled By Customers

Anna Furmanov
  • 4.8 (28)
  • MARKETING
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

A show that explores the role that customers play in helping companies build to their next level of growth. Hosted by Anna Furmanov. Visit furmanovmarketing.com to learn more about the host.

  1. 2D AGO

    274 - Your AI's Outputs Are Only As Good As Its Brain (GTM News Desk)

    Natalie Marcotullio & Mark Kilens invited me on their podcast GTM News Desk. We discuss: How do you build messaging that actually sticks across every team that touches it? How do you know when an "insight" is genuinely worth acting on or when it's just a pattern dressed up in fancy words? What does it take to teach AI to think like you, not just write like one version of you? Mojo Founder Eric Holland and I reveal what's really broken about how B2B companies develop and distribute their messaging. We dig into why most customer research is pulled from the most biased data available and how to document your decision-making, not just your knowledge, so AI can actually replicate your judgment. We also provide answers to why chasing every new AI workflow is making most marketers worse, not better. Eric and I challenge the idea that volume of insights equals quality of insights, arguing that a single finding that changes how your whole company goes to market is worth more than a hundred tagged Gong quotes. Jump in: (00:00) We need a higher standard for b2b research (00:35) What CMOs are actually talking about at conferences right now (04:40) How shame and fear became the default AI adoption strategy (08:41) The difference between AI-exhausted and AI-excited teams (12:44) Four Tendencies and what it means for AI adoption (16:31) Why B2B messaging is broken even at well-funded startups (19:14) What separates Mojo from just pointing Claude at your Notion (27:26) What good writing actually feels like and whether AI can get there (32:17) The solar plexus test and how to know when your copy is working (34:05) Why nuance and emotion are the real gap in AI writing (39:27) Why most insight tools are just pattern-matching machines (44:19) How to check if your researcher is actually any good (47:30) The danger of everyone using the same workflows to find the same "insights" (50:01) What B2B marketing gets wrong that B2C figured out long ago (53:21) Go deep on one thing for a quarter (55:22) Why you should only build what you already know in your sleep Connect with Eric: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-holland-not-a-marketer/  Connect with Anna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov/  Mojo: https://mojopmm.com/ Mojo + Moxie: https://mojo-and-moxie.com/ Natalie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-marcotullio/ Mark: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markkilens/

    59 min

  2. APR 22

    273 - What (Almost) Everyone Gets Wrong About Insights

    Hi, we need to talk. This is important. One of the worst things that AI is doing to PMMs right now: making pattern recognition look like insight. I've been surprised how many tools give you dozens of "insights" without anything to back it up other than pattern recognition and quotes. Just because something came up multiple times doesn't make it an insight! Please hear me out, we must do better. 00:00 The disconnect between interesting information and decision insights 02:48 Defining decision insights 05:16 Emotional insights in B2C 07:48 The limits of current research tools 10:07 Introducing Aha PMM 12:55 Why decision insights matter today Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, tell me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Aha PMM ⁠blog article⁠ Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠One Insight⁠⁠

    14 min

  3. MAR 25

    272 - Should AI Help You Write? with Eric Holland (Mojo PMM)

    Eric Holland is a recovering product marketer who quit his job to focus on custom messaging assistants + interactive demos. Founder @Mojo PMM: Burn your boring messaging doc. Mojo is your custom messaging assistant that creates bold, persona-specific messaging for anything you need, that your whole team wants to use. I recently joined Eric at Mojo PMM as their first ever Messaging Whisperer. Co-Founder @DemoDash: 100+ interactive demos shipped for Navattic customers (that’s actually how we met). Also co-hosts the We’re Not Marketers podcast. We talk about messaging & AI, specifically: Can AI help you write copy? Should AI help you write copy? Marketing teams are moving faster with AI, but not necessarily making better decisions. What’s broken? What we're building and why. Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Eric on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/eric-holland-not-a-marketer Mojo PMM: mojopmm.com Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠One Insight⁠

    32 min

  4. JAN 30 ·  BONUS

    271 - BONUS: What Would Make AI More Trustworthy?

    In the last episode (270), Caitlin Sullivan (AI + Customer Research expert) asked me "what would have to change for you to feel that AI is trustworthy?" It's a really good question and I answer it in this short episode. Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠One Insight⁠

    7 min

  5. JAN 28

    270 - How AI Is Transforming Customer Research (Caitlin Sullivan)

    I know, I know. Season 5 wrapped up. But I couldn't help myself. Caitlin Sullivan is an expert in AI for Customer Research. She trains growth-ready product & design teams to know their customers faster. Clients include YouTube, Spotify, Ramp, Meta, and Canva. Here’s what we covered: 00:00 Introduction to AI in Customer Research 03:41 The Shift in AI Usage for Customer Research 09:25 Building Systems for Effective Research 12:59 Challenges with AI Insights 17:55 Completeness in Research with AI 21:17 Common Mistakes in Customer Research 25:01 Emotional Nuances in Research & Why they're important 27:08 Understanding AI's Interpretation of Emotions 29:46 The Role of Human Insight in AI Training 32:25 AI as a Co-Pilot and The Importance of Collaboration 35:37 Catching AI Errors 38:30 The Necessity of Human Involvement in Research 39:55 Balancing AI and Human Decision-Making 45:02 Knowing When You Have Enough Data To Stop And Decide 46:44 Favorite Tools for Research and Analysis 50:00 Caitlin asks me her burning question which I will answer in a separate BONUS episode Caitlin on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/caitlindsullivan AI Analysis for PMs course: https://maven.com/caitlin/ai-analysis-pms Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Music by my talented daughter. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠One Insight

    57 min

  6. 12/24/2025

    269 - Season 5 Wrap Up!

    Thanks for being here, for listening, for collaborating, thanks for sharing episodes with others, for sharing stuff with me - when people DM me on LI with their fave episodes - for leaving a review, thank you for all of it. Here's the link to the article "35 Creative Customer Marketing Plays". Wishing you a warm + connected holiday season and positive, fresh beginnings for 2026. Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Music by my talented daughter. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠One Insight

    2 min

  7. 12/19/2025 ·  BONUS

    268 - BONUS Marketing: What Worked 2025 + Big Bets 2026

    To wrap the year, my client Navattic invited nine of their marketing advisors (including me!) for an open panel on what’s working and what’s worn out from 2025, and where we're placing big bets for 2026. ~300 ppl registered. A few highlights - Worn out: Being a part of every over-saturated channel. AI hype. Talking about how SEO traffic is “collapsing.” Instead, focus on channels where you are the only one (like self-hosted events), thoughtfully using AI tools instead of from pressure, and recognizing that traffic is no longer the best way to measure trust. What we're keeping for 2026: Pipeline acceleration campaigns (instead of just acquisition).Customer marketing as a strategic growth strategy.Bespoke events that attendees want to post photos of on social. Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Music by my talented daughter. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠One Insight

    1h 2m

  8. 12/17/2025

    267 - Creating Customers for Life: Reimagining Customer Marketing (Kevin Lau, Freshworks)

    Everyone's been telling me "you gotta talk to Kevin!" Kevin Lau is VP Global Customer Marketing at Freshworks. Freshworks provides AI-assisted IT and customer service software to 75k+ companies. 9,500+ employees, IPO’d back in 2021. Here’s what we cover: 01:58 Why Customer Relationships are so important especially going into next year 05:40 The Customer Marketing Team at Freshworks 09:02 Redefining Customer Marketing at Freshworks (more than just advocacy) 12:56 Collaboration Between Customer and Product Marketing 16:48 Voice of Customer and ongoing Feedback Mechanisms 27:58 The Importance of Customer Marketing & why companies that focus on Net New are already behind 31:10 Most Creative Customer Marketing Plays 37:24 Building Customer Engagement Programs from scratch 39:42 Measuring the Impact of Customer Marketing 43:08 Using AI in Customer Marketing 50:46 Hopes, fears, future outlook on AI and Customer Marketing (it's not all bad) Kevin on LinkedIn: ⁠www.linkedin.com/in/kevinkennethlau Freshworks: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.freshworks.com Subscribe to Building With Buyers on Apple or Spotify or wherever you like to listen, message me what you're listening to, and don't forget to leave a review if you're lovin' the show. Music by my talented daughter. Anna on LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠furmanovmarketing.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠One Insight

    53 min
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A show that explores the role that customers play in helping companies build to their next level of growth. Hosted by Anna Furmanov. Visit furmanovmarketing.com to learn more about the host.

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