Most leaders don’t burn out because they’re weak. They burn out because they’re trying to survive a wilderness season with the wrong tools—and with no margin left. In this episode of the More Than Before Podcast, Nathan Cook sits down with pastor and leadership coach Robb Gossen (aka “Shifting the Wilderness”) to reframe burnout, pressure, and hard seasons through a lens of surrender, identity, and transformation. Robb shares his own story of burnout, what he learned coming out of it, and how leaders can stop trying to muscle their way through and start building a healthier, more sustainable way to live, lead, and love. If you’re leading at work, leading at home, and feeling stretched thin—this episode is for you. Key Takeaways The wilderness isn’t a season to dread—it can become a season of growth if you learn how to see it differently.You don’t always go from wilderness → promised land; often it’s wilderness → wilderness, and each season requires a new “toolbox.”Surrender is the turning point: you can’t shift your perspective until you stop denying where you are and release control of the outcome.Margin is the first thing to disappear on the road to burnout—when margin is gone, people become more reactive than responsive.Identity isn’t “one-size-fits-all.” Your strength, purpose, and calling must be anchored in being loved, valued, and created with purpose—not tied to performance or role.Marriage and leadership aren’t 50/50—they’re 100/100, with seasons where one person carries more when the other can’t. Chapters / Timestamps 00:00 — The wilderness isn’t something to dread00:28 — Robb’s focus: helping leaders/pastors facing burnout02:06 — Robb’s burnout story and the “Shifting the Wilderness” framework05:10 — You don’t go from wilderness to promised land—often it’s wilderness to wilderness07:53 — “Different wilderness = different toolbox” (stop using old tools)09:13 — There’s still life in the wilderness (perspective shift)10:09 — Why camping in the wilderness reveals what’s buried in you12:04 — Nathan’s “desert comes alive at night” perspective point12:53 — Robb’s childhood: farm life in Southeast Kansas → ministry journey17:35 — Farm lessons: hard work, improvisation, handling the unexpected20:08 — Marriage wisdom from generations: love, joy, faithfulness over time24:53 — Crucible moments in marriage: grief, loss, and suffering together31:01 — How surrender changes the wilderness (and your leadership)35:04 — “Marriage isn’t 50/50—it’s 100/100”36:13 — Corrie ten Boom + the “fleas” perspective story36:26 — Do we stay in the wilderness because we won’t learn the lesson?42:47 — Burnout warning signs: control, overwork, and disappearing margin44:16 — The “book margin” metaphor: why margin is essential to health50:20 — Identity, purpose, and the danger of forcing a single model of “manhood”56:57 — 1 Corinthians 12–13: gifts don’t matter without love01:02:32 — How to connect with Robb + why this matters01:03:52 — “More Than Before” for Robb: living with more grace, joy, peace Resources & Links Mentioned Connect with Robb: Instagram — @shiftingthewildernesshttps://www.instagram.com/shiftingthewilderness/Corrie ten Boom (referenced story about perspective): The Hiding Placehttps://www.corrietenboom.com/the-hiding-place/Bible passages referenced:1 Corinthians 12–13 (community, gifts, and love)Galatians 5:22–23 (fruit of the Spirit)The wilderness narrative in Exodus / Israel’s journey Call to Action If you’re in a wilderness season—or you know a leader who’s quietly burning out—share this episode with them. Then take 30 seconds to follow/subscribe and leave a rating and review on Spotify. It helps more people find these conversations and start living with greater purpose, margin, and grace. Remember: be more, see more, and experience more… More Than Before.
