Negotiating the Ocean

ANCORS

Negotiating the Ocean, an Ocean Equity podcast by ANCORS, peeks below the surface of international ocean governance. We take you behind the scenes of global talks on biodiversity, fisheries and deep-sea mining and ask the big questions around equity and social justice. This podcast enables a more inclusive understanding for those who can’t attend international meetings and provides vital information for new diplomats, NGOs and ocean researchers. This is your audio guide to navigate these high seas negotiations, brought to you by the Australian National Centre for Ocean Resources and Security.

  1. 6D AGO

    Episode 13 - Capacity Building and the Transfer of Marine Technology

    A new Ocean Agreement has entered into force to conserve and sustainably use the ocean globally. Given the imbalance of scientific, technical and financial capacity across countries to use the world’s ocean, conduct marine scientific research in the deep sea and engage in maritime activities in areas beyond national jurisdiction, the new agreement seeks to change the status quo. With a dedicated part on Capacity building and the Transfer of Marine Technology, the imbalance is supposed to be addressed, and global implementation of the agreement’s objectives be facilitated. What falls under Capacity building in the context of the BBNJ Agreement?What is meant by the transfer of marine technology?How is this part crucial for the implementation of the new treaty?We hear from different “Ocean Voices” from Fellows of the Ocean Voices Program of the University of Edinburgh and dive deep into their different research and ocean equity aspects in the framework of the BBNJ Agreement. Guests:  Harriet Harden-Davies Julia Schuetz-Veiga* Renee Lewinilovo Benit Mbiakolo Beatriz Naranjo Elizondo Maila Guilhon Hosts: ⁠Ina Tessnow-von Wysocki⁠ & ⁠Jennifer Macey⁠ Sound design and editing: ⁠⁠Emily Perkins⁠⁠ Communication: ⁠Sunnefa Yeatman⁠ For comments & feedback please contact: ⁠inatvw@uow.edu.au⁠ Find out more: ANCORS Ocean Equity page ⁠https://oceanequityresearch.org/⁠ ANCORS at the University of Wollongong ⁠https://www.uow.edu.au/ancors/⁠ Ocean Voices Program: https://ocean-voices.ed.ac.uk/ You can find capacity building initiatives and technical assistance for the BBNJ process on the United Nations Website: https://www.un.org/bbnjagreement/en/capacity-building-and-technical-assistance/overview    Read on Capacity Building and the Transfer of Marine Technology Etuk Johnson, A., Harden-Davies, H. (2025). Capacity Building and Transfer of Marine Technology under the BBNJ Agreement: Key considerations for SIDS. Report for the Australian National Centre for Ocean Resources and Security, University of Wollongong. https://oceanequityresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Arianne-Etuk_Capacity-Building-and-Transfer-of-Marine-Technology-under-the-BBNJ-Agreement.pdf Harden-Davies, H., Lopes, V.F., Coelho, L.F. et al. First to finish, what comes next? Putting Capacity Building and the Transfer of Marine Technology under the BBNJ Agreement into practice. npj Ocean Sustain 3, 3 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s44183-023-00039-1 Tessnow-von Wysocki, I., Bateh, F., Gobin, J., Harden-Davies, H., Kyeremeh, K., & Schutz-Veiga, J. (2024). Next steps to implement the BBNJ Agreement through capacity building and technology transfer. Maripoldata. https://www.maripoldata.eu/next-steps-to-implement-the-bbnj-agreement-through-capacity-building-andtechnology-transfer/ Johannes, R. E. (1981). Words of the lagoon: fishingand marine lore in the Palau district of Micronesia. Univ of California Press.   Know more & Research of the Ocean Voices Fellows Costa Rica Desconocida: https://costaricadesconocida.com/ Guilhon, M, Xavier, LY, von Pogrell, L, Singh, P,Christiansen, S & Turra, A 2023, ‘Ecosystem-based Management through thelenses of International Seabed Authority stakeholders: current status,implications, and opportunities for the deep-sea mining regime in theArea’, Frontiers in Marine Science, vol. 10. Naranjo-Elizondo, B & Cortés, J 2018, ‘Observations ofLitter Deposited in the Deep Waters of Isla del Coco National Park, EasternTropical Pacific’, Frontiers in Marine Science, vol. 5. Harden-Davies, Harriet, and Júlia Schütz Veiga, 'PartV: Capacity-Building and the Transfer of Marine Technology', in Joanna Mossop, and David Freestone (eds), The Agreement on Marine Biodiversity of Areas Beyond National Jurisdiction: Commentary and Analysis (2025; online edn, Oxford Law , https://doi.org/10.1093/law/9780198918578.003.0008,  Meet Renee Lewenilovo Meet Benit Mbiakolo * Julia Schuetz-Veiga is currently a Visiting Fellow at the Ocean Voices Program

    1h 4m
  2. 11/01/2025

    Episode 12 - Ocean Cooperation: BBNJ & other IFBs

    Episode 12 - Ocean Cooperation: BBNJ & other IFBs When the new BBNJ Agreement was adopted, it entered a crowded space of already existing Instruments, Frameworks and Bodies (IFBs) in ocean governance. What do other organisations think of BBNJ - and where are overlaps?Which lessons can be learned from cooperation in a shared ocean?How would ideal cooperation look like? In this episode we talk to 4 Secretariats of those IFBs: One regional fisheries management organisation (North East Atlantic Fisheries Commission, NEAFC); one regional conservation organisation (OSPAR); the International Seabed Authority (ISA); and the Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD). Guests: Darius Campbell, the Executive Secretary of the North East Atlantic Fisheries Commission (NEAFC) Dominic Pattinson, the former Executive Secretary of the OSPAR Commission Bruno Pozzi, the Deputy Secretary General of the International Seabed Authority (ISA) Joe Appiott, the coordinator for marine, coastal and island biodiversity of the Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD) Hosts: ⁠Ina Tessnow-von Wysocki⁠ & Bianca Haas  & ⁠Jennifer Macey⁠ Sound design and editing: ⁠⁠Emily Perkins⁠⁠ Communication: ⁠Sunnefa Yeatman⁠ For comments & feedback please contact: ⁠inatvw@uow.edu.au⁠ Find out more: ANCORS Ocean Equity page ⁠https://oceanequityresearch.org/⁠ ANCORS at the University of Wollongong https://www.uow.edu.au/ancors/⁠ Official documents in preparation for the Entry into Force of the BBNJ Agreement on the United Nations Website BBNJ: ⁠https://www.un.org/bbnjagreement/en⁠ North East Atlantic Fisheries Commission: ⁠https://www.neafc.org/⁠ OSPAR: ⁠https://www.ospar.org/⁠ International Seabed Authority (ISA): ⁠https://isa.org.jm/⁠ Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD): ⁠https://www.cbd.int/⁠   Further Materials & Sources OSPAR Decision 2021/01 on the establishment of the North Atlantic Current and Evlanov Sea basin Marine Protected Area ⁠https://www.ospar.org/documents?v=46308⁠   Collective arrangement between competent international organisations on cooperation and coordination regarding selected areas in areas beyond national jurisdiction in the North‐East Atlantic: ⁠https://www.ospar.org/documents?v=33030⁠

    48 min
  3. 09/30/2025

    Episode 11 - Children & Youth

    Around half of the world’s population are young people but how are they included in international negotiations about the future of our planet? This episode portrays the importance of youth involvement in intergovernmental processes, maps different ways for young people to participate in ocean negotiations and highlights opportunities at local, national and global levels. How can younger generations shape the future of our ocean?What is the age group of young ocean advocates?And what needs to be changed to strengthen youth engagement in our current ocean governance systems? Guests: Charley Peebler (Co-Founder of Heirs to Our Ocean, Global Youth Leader, and Member of Youth Inclusion Expert Working Group for the UN Ocean Decade) Chloe McKenna (Head of Communications for Heirs to Our Ocean, Global Youth Leader, and Member of Youth Inclusion Expert Working Group for the UN Ocean Decade) Armon Alex (Head of Development and Outreach for Heirs to Our Ocean, Global Youth Leader, and Member of Youth Inclusion Expert Working Group for the UN Ocean Decade) Ishwarya Kandasamy (Thematic Focal Point for BBNJ, Oceans Youth Constituency, Major Group for Children and Youth) Hosts: ⁠Ina Tessnow-von Wysocki⁠ & ⁠Jennifer Macey⁠ Sound design and editing: ⁠⁠Emily Perkins⁠⁠ Communication: ⁠Sunnefa Yeatman⁠ For comments & feedback please contact: ⁠inatvw@uow.edu.au⁠ Find out more: ANCORS Ocean Equity page ⁠https://oceanequityresearch.org/⁠ ANCORS at the University of Wollongong ⁠https://www.uow.edu.au/ancors/⁠ You can find official documents in preparation for the Entry into Force of the BBNJ Agreement on the United Nations Website: https://www.un.org/bbnjagreement/en/meetings/preparatory-commission/documents/second-session-18-29-august-2025 Youth-led NGO “Heirs to Our Ocean”: Official Website: https://h2oo.org/ Meet Heirs to Our Ocean   The Official Children and Youth Constituency of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (YOUNGO): Official Website: https://youngoclimate.org/ To join Ocean’s Voice working group of YOUNGO Major Group for Children and Youth (MGCY): Official Website: https://www.unmgcy.org/ Get involved with MGCY as an  organisation and as an individual United Nations Youth Delegate Program: Become a ⁠UN Youth Delegate Further Youth Engagement opportunities: Become a High Seas Youth Ambassador Become a member of the Youth Advisory Council Youth Advocacy Training - World Ocean Day Youth Leadership Home | GenSea A WAVE OF MESSAGES FOR THE HIGH SEAS - High Seas Alliance Treaty Ratification High Seas Youth Advocacy | Trello   Research on the BBNJ process by ANCORS researchers: Lothian, S. (2023). The BBNJ preamble: More than just window dressing. Marine Policy, 153, 105642-. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.marpol.2023.105642 Lothian, S. L. (2022). Marine conservation and international law: legal instruments for biodiversity beyond national jurisdiction. Routledge, Taylor & Francis Group. Tessnow-von Wysocki, I., & Vadrot, A. B. M. (2024). Pathways of scientific input into intergovernmental negotiations: a new agreement on marine biodiversity. International Environmental Agreements : Politics, Law and Economics, 24(2–3), 325 348. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10784-024-09642-0 Tessnow-von Wysocki, I., & Vadrot, A. B. M. (2022). Governing a Divided Ocean: The Transformative Power of Ecological Connectivity in the BBNJ Negotiations. Politics and Governance, 10(3), 14 28. https://doi.org/10.17645/pag.v10i3.5428 Tessnow-von Wysocki, I., & Vadrot, A. B. M. (2020). The Voice of Science on Marine Biodiversity Negotiations: A Systematic Literature Review. Frontiers in Marine Science, 7. https://doi.org/10.3389/fmars.2020.614282

    35 min
  4. 08/04/2025

    Episode 10 - Human Rights at Sea

    Over the last decade human rights violations in the fishing industry have received global attention.  Many of these incidents occur on board fishing vessels, often fishing far off the coast. In this episode, three experts who have been fighting to ensure better working conditions for crew on board fishing vessels will provide insights into this topic. Guests: Rizky Octaviana – Indonesian MigrantWorkers Union, SBMI Bubba Cook – Sharkspacific Marcelo Hidalgo – Fishing IndustryAssociation Papua New Guinea   Hosts: Bianca Haas & Jennifer Macey Sound design and editing: Emily Perkins Communication: Sunnefa Yeatman For comments & feedback please contact: inatvw@uow.edu.au   Find out more: ANCORS Ocean Equity page https://oceanequityresearch.org/ ANCORS at the University of Wollongong https://www.uow.edu.au/ancors/   Indonesian Migrant Workers Union (SBMI): Webpage: https://sbmi.or.id/ Sharkspacific: Webpage: https://sharkspacific.org/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sharkspacificorg LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sharks-pacific/posts/?feedView=all Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sharkspacificorg/?hl=en Fishing Industry Association Papua New Guinea: Webpage: https://www.fia-png.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/fishing-industry-association-fia/posts/?feedView=all   Official Documents from WCPFC: Conservation and Management Measure for Crew Labour Standards (WCPFC Meeting, 2024): CMM 2024-04 -Conservation and Management Measure for Crew Labour Standards | Monitoring andEvaluation   Research on the Western and Central Pacific Fisheries Commission by ANCORS researchers: Haas, B., Oh, S., Dalton, K., Chang, SK., Fitzpatrick, J., Minami, K., Matsui, H., Xue, G., An, J.E., Azmi, K., Davis, R., Lin, H.Y., Jung, M.H., and Hanich, Q. (2023). Untangling Jurisdictional Complexities for Crew Labour Regulations on Fishing Vessels in the Western and Central Pacific Ocean. The International Journal of Marine and Coastal Law. https://doi.org/10.1163/15718085-bja10120 Hidalgo, M., Trott, P., and Haas, B. (2025). The vulnerability of observers – An evaluation of observer programs welfare and working conditions policies. Marine Policy. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.marpol.2024.106540 Haas, B., Davis, R., Hidalgo, M., Posanau, N.A., and Papaol, D. (2025). Ensuring Social Accountability in Tuna Fisheries: Lessons Learned from the Pacific. https://www.fia-png.com/_files/ugd/872bdb_9f430e33bd634b13ab2b592f078c4102.pdf

    27 min
  5. 07/09/2025

    Episode 9 - Deep-Sea Mining

    Deep-sea minerals are found in the depths of the ocean, thousands of meters below the surface in the seabed. Deep-sea mining has not yet occurred in international areas – those areas where no one state has jurisdiction, but where international cooperation is needed. The International Seabed Authority (ISA) is responsible for administration of mineral resources of the international ocean floor – the “Area”. States regularly meet in the headquarters of the ISA to negotiate rules and regulations under what conditions deep-sea mining could be allowed, which environmental standards would have to be followed and how to ensure that everyone benefits from potential mining activities. Not an easy task – therefore this episode introduces the topic of deep-sea mining and the work of the ISA. Timely with the negotiation schedule, this episode summarises the current state of the negotiations and which questions remain for the upcoming meetings. What does the International Seabed Authority do?How can potential benefits from deep-seabed minerals be equitably shared?What is the current state of the negotiations at the ISA?What does the new US executive order regarding deep-sea mining entail?And how does the International Seabed Authority relate to the new Agreement for Biodiversity in Areas Beyond National Jurisdiction (BBNJ)?Guests: Aline Jaeckel (ANCORS) and Pradeep Singh (Ozeano Azul Foundation) Hosts: ⁠Ina Tessnow-von Wysocki⁠ & ⁠Jennifer Macey⁠ Sound design and editing: ⁠⁠Emily Perkins⁠⁠ Communication: ⁠Sunnefa Yeatman⁠ ANCORS literature on Deep-Seabed Mining Singh, P. A., Jaeckel, A., & Ardron, J. A. (2025). APause or Moratorium for Deep Seabed Mining in the Area? The Legal Basis, Potential Pathways, and Possible Policy Implications. Ocean Development & International Law, 56(1), 18–44. https://doi.org/10.1080/00908320.2024.2439877 Singh P, Jaeckel A. Undermining by Mining? Deep SeabedMining in Light of International Marine Environmental Law. AJIL Unbound. 2024;118:72-77. doi:10.1017/aju.2024.8 Jaeckel, A., Harden-Davies, H., Amon, D.J. et al. Deepseabed mining lacks social legitimacy. npj Ocean Sustain 2,1 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1038/s44183-023-00009-7 Jaeckel, A. L. (05 Jan. 2017). The International SeabedAuthority and the Precautionary Principle. Leiden, The Netherlands: Brill | Nijhoff. https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004332287   More Information about Deep-sea Mining International Seabed Authority Website ANCORS Ocean Equity Website Oceano Azul Foundation Website Follow the negotiations live on the official ISA Web TV: Council (23 June – 4 July 2025) Assembly (21 – 25 July 2025)       For comments & feedback please contact: ⁠inatvw@uow.edu.au⁠

    43 min
  6. 06/08/2025

    Episode 8 – The United Nations Ocean Conference

    Episode 8 – The United Nations Ocean Conference   The 8th of June is World Ocean Day – a day to celebrate the ocean and to address the challenges that the ocean faces from human activities, such as overexploitation, pollution, and climate change. This episode dives into the Third United Nations Ocean Conference (UNOC 3) and reflects on the beauty and the importance of the ocean to all of us – no matter if we live close to the ocean, or far away. What does the ocean mean to us?How is the ocean important to landlocked countries?What can we expect from the upcoming UN Ocean Conference in Nice?Join us with our guests: Minna Epps, IUCN Fabienne McLellan, Ocean Care Pradeep Singh, Ozeano Azul Foundation Maila Guilhon, Ocean Voices Programme Hosts: ⁠⁠Ina Tessnow-von Wysocki⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠Jennifer Macey⁠⁠ Sound design and editing: ⁠⁠⁠Emily Perkins⁠⁠ Communication: ⁠⁠Sunnefa Yeatman⁠⁠ For comments & feedback please contact: ⁠⁠inatvw@uow.edu.au⁠⁠ Find out more: United Nations Ocean Conference Information and Programme: https://sdgs.un.org/conferences/ocean2025/programme ANCORS involvement with UNOC: Nice Declaration - Human Rights at Sea June 10, 3-5pm, 18 avenue Jean Médecin   From Treaty to Action: Multi-Stakeholder Cooperation for the High Seas 11 June, 4-6pm. La Baleine Ocean Futures 2030: addressing the gaps in implementing the BBNJ agreement, 12 June, 12-1 pm at the Best Western Plus Hôtel Massena Nice, 58, rue Gioffredo, 06000 Nice ANCORS Ocean Equity page ⁠⁠https://oceanequityresearch.org/⁠⁠ ANCORS at the University of Wollongong ⁠⁠https://www.uow.edu.au/ancors/⁠⁠ International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN): https://iucn.org/ OceanCare: https://www.oceancare.org/ Oceano Azul Foundation: https://oceanoazulfoundation.org/ Ocean Voices Programme: https://ocean-voices.ed.ac.uk/

    35 min
  7. 05/13/2025

    Episode 7 - Tuna Fisheries II (Indian Ocean)

    Looking beyond the can - the importance of tuna fisheries Part 2: The Indian Ocean The Indian Ocean Tuna Commission manages the second most lucrative tuna fishery in the world. More than half of the tuna catches in the Indian Ocean come from small-scale fisheries, which are often characterised by a lack of data and information. Overall, the Indian Ocean faces many complex and unique challenges. In this episode, we talk to four experts from the region who have been actively engaged in shaping the Indian Ocean tuna fisheries.   Guests: Adam Ziyad – Chair of the Indian Ocean Tuna Commission Dr Paul de Bruyn – Executive Secretary of the Indian Ocean Tuna Commission Umair Shahid – Indian Ocean Tuna manager for WWF Doreen Simiyu – Coordinator of the Indian Ocean Tuna Forum (SWIOTUNA) Hosts: Bianca Haas & Jennifer Macey Sound design and editing: Emily Perkins Communication: Sunnefa Yeatman For comments & feedback please contact: inatvw@uow.edu.au   Find out more: ANCORS Ocean Equity page https://oceanequityresearch.org/ ANCORS at the University of Wollongong https://www.uow.edu.au/ancors/   Indian Ocean Tuna Commission Website https://iotc.org/ WWF Website https://www.wwf-swio.org/ SWIOTUNA Website https://www.swiotuuna.org/ Blog on the 29th IOTC meeting: https://oceanequityresearch.org/fisheries-governance-publications/insights-into-the-29th-annual-meeting-of-the-indian-ocean-tuna-commission/   Research on the Indian Ocean Tuna Commission by ANCORS researchers: Rambourg, C., Haas, B., & Colléter, M. (2025). The quiet voices of French territories in tuna fisheries management. Environmental Development, 55, 101162. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.envdev.2025.101162 Haas, B., Goodman, C., Sinan, H., Davis, R. (2023). Fact or fiction? Unpacking the terminologies used in fisheries allocation discussions. Marine Policy, 152, 105630. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.marpol.2023.105630 Davis, R., Hanich, Q., Haas, B., Cisneros-Montemayor, A., Azmi, K., Seto, K.L., et al. (2022). Who Gets the Catch? How Conventional Catch Attribution Frameworks Undermine Equity in Transboundary Fisheries. Frontiers in Marine Science. 9. https://doi.org/10.3389/fmars.2022.831868

    26 min
  8. 04/30/2025

    Episode 6 - Tuna Fisheries I (Western and Central Pacific Ocean)

    Looking beyond the can - the importance of tuna fisheries Part 1: The Western and Central Pacific Ocean  The management of the tuna species is important for the livelihoods and food security of millions of people.   This is especially true for the tuna caught in the Western and Central Pacific Ocean, which accounts for more than half of the global tuna catch.  In this episode, we will hear from four experts who have dedicated their lives to ensuring that tuna fisheries in the Western and Central Pacific are managed sustainably.     Guests:   Professor Transform Aqorau – Vice Chancellor of the Solomon Islands National University  Francisco Blaha – Fisheries Consultant  Dr Josie Tamate – Chair of the Western and Central Pacific Fisheries Commission  Rhea Moss-Christian – Executive Director of the Western and Central Pacific Fisheries Commission  Hosts: Bianca Haas & Jennifer Macey  Sound design and editing: Emily Perkins   Communication: Sunnefa Yeatman  For comments & feedback please contact: ⁠inatvw@uow.edu.au⁠    Find out more:  ANCORS Ocean Equity page ⁠https://oceanequityresearch.org/⁠  ANCORS at the University of Wollongong ⁠https://www.uow.edu.au/ancors/⁠    Western and Central Pacific Fisheries Commission Website ⁠https://www.wcpfc.int/⁠  Francisco Blaha’s Website ⁠https://www.franciscoblaha.info/⁠  Parties of the Nauru Agreement (PNA) Website: ⁠https://www.pnatuna.com/⁠     Research on the Western and Central Pacific Fisheries Commission by ANCORS researchers:  Haas, B., Azmi, K., & Davis, R. (2024). Pacific tuna update: 20th Meeting of the Western and Central Pacific Fisheries Commission. Marine Policy, 168, 106320. ⁠https://doi.org/10.1016/j.marpol.2024.106320⁠   Goodman C., Davis, R., Azmi, K., Bell, J., Galland, G.R. Gilman, E., et al. (2022). Enhancing cooperative responses by regional fisheries management organisations to climate-driven redistribution of tropical Pacific tuna stocks. Frontiers in Marine Science, 9. ⁠https://doi.org/10.3389/fmars.2022.1046018⁠  Azmi, K., & Hanich, Q. (2021). Mapping interests in the tuna fisheries of the Western and Central Pacific Ocean. Ocean & Coastal Management. 212, 105779. ⁠https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ocecoaman.2021.105779⁠  Hanich, Q., Jung, M., McDonald, A., Oh, S., Moon, S., An, J., & Yoon, M. (2021). Tuna Fisheries Conservation and Management in the Pacific Islands Region: Implications for Korean Distant Water Fisheries. Asia-Pacific Journal of Ocean Law and Policy. 6, 192-220. ⁠https://doi.org/10.1163/24519391-06020003⁠   Haas, B. (2020). Tuna management in action: assessing the contribution of the WCPFC to the SDGs. Australian Journal of Maritime & Ocean Affairs. 12, 42-47. ⁠https://doi.org/10.1080/18366503.2020.1726261⁠

    24 min

About

Negotiating the Ocean, an Ocean Equity podcast by ANCORS, peeks below the surface of international ocean governance. We take you behind the scenes of global talks on biodiversity, fisheries and deep-sea mining and ask the big questions around equity and social justice. This podcast enables a more inclusive understanding for those who can’t attend international meetings and provides vital information for new diplomats, NGOs and ocean researchers. This is your audio guide to navigate these high seas negotiations, brought to you by the Australian National Centre for Ocean Resources and Security.