Neither Here Nor There

Neither Here Nor There
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Two expats in Spain coming together to teach about what it takes to move into and out of new cultures.

Episodes

  1. 11/21/2025

    Soul Care (Season Finale)

    Living between worlds creates an ache that helps us understand we're all foreigners here, no matter what your passport country is. On this season finale of Neither Here Nor There, hosts Ruthie Gomez and Laura talk with guest, Brandi Carrano of the International Church of Barcelona about soul care during the settled stage and the spiritual dimensions of living between cultures. They explore how the back-and-forth between worlds helps people recognize their true longing for eternity and their identity as sojourners rather than permanent residents of any earthly location. The episode focuses on finding hope and meaning in the unique perspective that comes from cross-cultural living. They discuss how God shows up specifically during times of change, providing both practical provisions and spiritual comfort during major life transitions. Brandi shares a powerful story about her four-year-old daughter's prayer for an outdoor space during their apartment search in Barcelona, and how God provided exactly what seemed impossible, confirming His presence and care for specific details that matter to His children during seasons of upheaval and settling. "Gratefully, every time He has shown up in our time of change. Very specific things," Brandi reflects about God's faithfulness during transitions. "And sure enough, it was our house and we lived in that house for many years. It was just amazing to me that he showed up in specific ways that my daughter would know he was with us." The conversation concludes with Ruthie sharing an original poem about the Narnia experience of moving between worlds, capturing the bittersweet reality of carrying multiple cultures and identities while finding ultimate security in Christ as the constant presence across all transitions. They encourage listeners to embrace the adventures and discoveries that come with cross-cultural living, despite the inherent heartache and goodbyes, trusting that there are unknown worlds of experience waiting to be discovered.

    7 min

  2. 11/14/2025

    The Settled Stage

    Maybe one reason some of us have never pursued gardening is because we haven't stayed somewhere long enough to allow roots to grow. On this episode of Neither Here Nor There, hosts Ruthie Gomez and Laura talk with Brandi Carrano about the Settled stage of transition, the hands-down favorite phase where you finally have a sense of belonging and commitment impossible in other stages. They explore how settling provides the gift of freed-up mental bandwidth since moving takes enormous physical, mental, and emotional energy, allowing space for new interests, hobbies, and processing past changes. Laura reflects on how this podcast wouldn't exist without spending settled time together, emphasizing that settled is where you give from rather than just survive. They discuss the challenge of opening your heart to meaningful relationships again after painful goodbyes, noting that third culture kids who've lived the transition cycle repeatedly often crave home but may not feel settled is normal. The conversation addresses how some people create patterns of needing change every few years even in adult life, and explores the courage required to break those patterns and make the conscious choice to dig deeper into your current dream rather than dreaming a new one. The episode features Brandi Carrano, founder of REAL Women's Ministry and Conference, and pastors alongside her husband John at the International Church of Barcelona. "So around the five-year mark in Barcelona, I started to get a little itchy. And I didn't know why. It was just kind of this unsettled, you know, asking the big questions," Brandi reflects. "Neither one of us had ever lived in one location longer than five years. Neither one of us. In our whole lives." The conversation emphasizes that settling doesn't mean being completely free of chaos, but rather having a baseline of knowing you'll be somewhere unless something significantly changes. They encourage those not yet settled that this season may lie ahead, while challenging those who are settled to maintain empathy and provide stability for others going through earlier transition stages, becoming the person others call for recommendations and support rather than constantly seeking stability themselves.

    29 min

  3. 11/07/2025

    Soul Care in Entering

    Moving from a place where making tomato soup required a harrowing market trip to somewhere you can simply buy it from the store should feel like relief, but sometimes it brings unexpected depression instead. On this episode of Neither Here Nor There, hosts Ruthie Gomez and Laura talk to guest Audrey Wells about soul care during the entering stage of transition, when unspoken expectations clash with reality in confusing ways. They explore how the entering phase can bring both wild excitement and massive disappointment within minutes, as you process previous transition cycles while settling into new circumstances. Laura shares her personal struggle with depression after moving to beautiful Barcelona, despite the move being objectively easier than their previous location. They discuss how disappointment can obscure your view of good things during transition, like clouds rolling over a monastery and hiding its beauty from hikers. The conversation addresses the importance of honest processing with God, using King David's psalms as a model for bringing both frustration and gratitude to prayer without pretending everything is fine. They introduce the Prayer of Examen, a daily spiritual practice developed by Ignatius of Loyola for reflecting on God's presence throughout each day using five elements: gratitude, emotional awareness, discernment, forgiveness, and petition for specific needs. "The Lord has always been very present to me. I think I grew up, even since a young child, just sensing how close He really was," Audrey reflects. "And so in the midst of not being able to turn my gas on and not getting settled in as quickly as I thought I was able to, God just leaned in during that time and just became so present to me." The conversation emphasizes that God's presence remains constant even when practical needs create frustration and loneliness during the settling-in process. They encourage listeners to set their primary expectations on God's faithfulness rather than circumstances, recognizing that He invites honest communication about both struggles and gratitude during difficult transitions, and that emotions serve as warning lights rather than negative experiences to avoid.

    24 min

  4. 10/31/2025

    The Entering Stage

    Sometimes entering means discovering your new reality includes a flea-infested carpet and no closet when you expected a furnished room. On this episode of Neither Here Nor There, host Ruthie Gomez talks with co-host Laura and guest Audrey Wells, the Executive Pastor at ICB Barcelona about the entering stage of the transition cycle, when expectations collide with reality in ways both pleasant and jarring. They explore how the entering stage involves constantly adjusting expectations as you settle into new circumstances, using disappointment as a warning light to identify unmet expectations that need realigning. Ruthie shares her graduate school experience of arriving at an empty apartment and learning to trust God's provision through practical needs and friendships. They discuss the vulnerability that characterizes this stage, noting how people can feel like they're observing from the outside while needing to take active steps toward finding community and support. The conversation addresses the emotional complexities of entering, including ambivalent feelings, exaggerated emotions, and the surprising appearance of depression during what should be an exciting phase. They emphasize that depression often hits during entering because the reality of loss becomes tangible rather than anticipated, and explore how personality affects the entering process through different approaches to building new community connections. "I believe it affects it a lot. And obviously those who maybe are more shy or have a hard time making friends, it can be hard," Audrey reflects. "I'm an introvert and I've actually found that in my adulthood, being an introvert has actually helped me a lot in transition." The conversation includes a practical tool called "Unpacking Your Heart Pack," which helps individuals and families process the emotional aspects of transition by sorting experiences into categories of trash, treasure, refill, and repack. Ruthie and Laura emphasize the importance of taking time to identify both the valuable experiences worth carrying forward and the negative experiences that should be released rather than carried into new seasons.

    37 min

  5. 10/24/2025

    Soul Care in Chaos (Minisode)

    Chaos can feel like a brain wipe, washing your soul of all that it knows and leaving you staring blankly mid-conversation. On this episode of Neither Here Nor There, host Ruthie Gomez talks with co-host Laura about caring for your soul during the chaos stage of transition. They explore how the overwhelming nature of chaos can make it difficult to focus on anything, leading to forgotten tasks and mental fog as your brain tries to process countless details simultaneously. Laura shares her current experience preparing for a six-month transition and the creative discipline required to maintain spiritual practices during chaotic seasons. They discuss practical soul care strategies including setting timers for prayer and Bible reading, listening to scripture when normal study feels overwhelming, and using ancient spiritual practices with intentional flexibility. The conversation addresses how familiar routines help us remember who we are during destabilizing seasons, and why chaos often requires leaning into creative adaptations of spiritual disciplines rather than abandoning them entirely. They emphasize that chaos is precisely when soul care becomes most essential, even if it looks different from settled seasons. "Are there some tools that you have that you use that are helpful in the chaos season to kind of keep your soul on track?" Laura asks. "Well, I'm an auditory learner and I really like listening to the Bible because I can be doing something else at the same time," Ruthie explains. "That's really important in this season." The conversation includes practical recommendations for soul care resources including liturgical prayers for those who struggle to form words during overwhelming seasons, scripture-based music that engages different learning styles, and the importance of transitional objects that provide tangible stability. Ruthie and Laura emphasize that God reveals himself uniquely during transition seasons, showing up as Provider, Rock, and stability when our normal anchors feel shaken. Resources mentioned: Liturgies and Laments for the Sojourner Every Moment Holy, Volume I: New Liturgies for Daily Life (Over 100 Prayers and Illustrations for Practicing Mindfulness of the Presence of God in the Ordinary) Scripture Lullabies ‎StreetlightsBible Genesis 1

    19 min

  6. 10/17/2025

    The Chaos Stage

    The chaos stage is aptly named - it's when you are absolutely in between, beginning with the end and ending with the beginning. On this episode of Neither Here Nor There, host Ruthie Gomez talks with co-host Laura about the chaos stage of the transition cycle, the most stressful phase when people go into survival mode. They discuss how chaos can last anywhere from hours to years depending on circumstances, sharing personal stories of extended periods living out of suitcases, delayed housing arrangements, and unexpected school changes that stretched far beyond original timelines. Ruthie emphasizes that chaos becomes more complicated when the time period extends beyond expectations or when the end date is unknown. They explore practical survival strategies including maintaining simple routines with children, using transitional objects for continuity, and accepting that regression is normal during times of change. Ruthie offers compassionate advice about lowering expectations during this stage, noting that no one is their best self in chaos and that the goal should be survival rather than thriving. The conversation addresses how chaos can manifest internally even when external circumstances appear orderly. "The chaos stage can last as long as it takes for the new beginning to start. The most stressful times of chaos are when we don't know what's next or how long the chaos will last," Ruthie explains. "For example, a teacher leaving her teaching job to begin a new job in the same school as the school librarian has its level of chaos.  But much more so the one who is leaving a job and doesn’t know what is next or when." The episode features an extensive interview with John Carrano, pastor of the International Church in Barcelona, who offers a transformative perspective on chaos as a friend rather than an enemy. John shares insights from his military childhood, moving through nine schools in six countries, and explains how embracing chaos can lead to innovation, renewed creativity, and personal growth. He discusses the importance of language in shaping culture, maintaining family traditions and rhythms during unstable times, and viewing chaos as the perfect segue into new seasons rather than something to be endured.

    40 min

  7. 10/10/2025

    Goodbyes and Remembrance (Minisode)

    Goodbyes are hard because we weren't made for them - we were fashioned as eternal beings for a world without sorrowful farewells. On this episode of Neither Here Nor There, host Ruthie Gomez talks with co-host Laura about the deeper spiritual and emotional dimensions of saying goodbye during life transitions. They explore C.S. Lewis's insight that our longing for permanence stems from being made for an eternal country, and how this understanding can transform the way we approach difficult farewells. Laura shares her personal journey from avoiding goodbyes entirely to learning to honor people and places through intentional remembrance. They discuss the biblical concept of stones of remembrance from the story of Joshua and the Israelites, drawing parallels to how we can mark God's faithfulness through seasons of change. Laura reflects on her growth from driving away from summer camp without saying goodbye to creating meaningful farewell rituals like bookmarks for her children's friends. The conversation addresses how gratitude can transform the leaving stage, recognizing that if it's hard to leave, it means the place and relationships were worth investing in. "I have walked through the last few weeks literally like staring at the ceiling when I wake up thinking, I just really, really don't like this," Laura shares. "But you know, I do think I have gotten better at allowing the leaving stage to build gratitude in my heart." The episode includes a faith-focused interview with Claire Drudrury, who shares her remarkable story of how God confirmed His calling for her family to move to Barcelona through 21 days of specific signs and encouragement. Ruthie and Laura emphasize how healthy remembrance and gratitude can help process the grief of changing seasons while maintaining hope in God's eternal promises and faithfulness through every transition.

    22 min

  8. 10/03/2025

    The Leaving Phase

    Saying goodbye well requires intentional preparation that can begin months before you actually leave. On this episode of Neither Here Nor There, host Ruthie Gomez talks with cohost Laura about the leaving phase of the transition cycle and introduces the RAFT tool - an acronym for Reconciliation, Affirmation, Farewell, and Think Forward. They explore how this framework helps individuals and families navigate the emotional complexity of saying goodbye to people, places, pets, and possessions while preparing mentally for the next chapter of their journey. They explain how reconciliation involves resolving conflicts and offering forgiveness before departure, emphasizing that unresolved issues travel with us to new locations. Ruthie and Laura discuss the importance of affirming people who have made the current season meaningful, understanding cultural farewell customs, and taking time to say proper goodbyes to significant people and places. They address how the leaving phase can extend up to six months and requires intentional planning to leave well and enter the next phase with emotional health. The conversation explores how modern travel's speed can shortchange the emotional processing time that major life transitions require. "I wish that we could take a boat across the ocean like they used to," Laura reflects. "I just feel like I need about two weeks to process everything that's gone on here so that we can get to the other side and be present." The conversation includes an interview with Claire Dru Drury, a bi-vocational missionary at the International Church of Barcelona and a communications specialist with over 20 years’ corporate experience, who shares tools she's learned from 18 years of international living, including discerning seasons, enjoying the journey rather than focusing solely on the destination, and being kind to yourself during emotional transitions. Ruthie and Laura emphasize that while practical logistics dominate the leaving phase, intentional emotional preparation through the RAFT framework can significantly impact how well families adjust to their new environment. Books Referenced: Third Culture Kids by David Pollock and Ruth Van Riken

    31 min

  9. 09/26/2025 · BONUS

    Transition (Minisode)

    Small uncertainties like currency changes and unfamiliar products can feel overwhelming during major life transitions. On this mini-sode of Neither Here Nor There, host Ruthie Gomez talks with cohost Laura as they offer soul care for those walking through seasons of change by exploring the unchanging character of God during times of transition. They discuss how minor questions pile up in your mind during moves and how meditating on God's constant nature provides stability when everything else feels uncertain. They explore the biblical concept of El-Roy, the God who sees, through the story of Hagar in the wilderness and Laura's personal testimony about special dishes during their unexpected move from South Asia to Spain. Ruthie and Laura emphasize how God's character remains steady and unchanging even when circumstances, locations, and possessions shift dramatically during international moves and major life changes. "It was a small detail. But something about that unexpected transaction between us helped me," Laura explains. "It reminded me in a season of loss that God is a Father who gives, who loves, who sees." The conversation addresses how transitions are destabilizing seasons where small questions pile up and uncertainty weighs on the soul, yet these are often times when people experience the most miracles because they recognize their lack of control. Ruthie and Laura encourage listeners to look for moments when they feel seen by God during difficult seasons and to give thanks out loud for evidence of His care and provision during times of major change.

    14 min

  10. 09/19/2025

    Overview of the Transition Cycle

    Can you believe that experiencing complete chaos during major life changes is actually a predictable and normal part of transition? On this inaugural episode of Neither Here Nor There, host Ruthie Gomez and guest Laura discuss the transition cycle and how understanding its predictable patterns can help anyone navigate times of change with more peace and preparation. They break down the four stages of transition - settled, leaving, chaos, entering, and re-engagement - explaining how each phase brings distinct emotional and practical challenges that affect individuals and families moving through major life changes. They explore how expectations play a crucial role in determining our emotional response to transition, using the analogy that disappointment serves as an alarm alerting us to unmet expectations. They share personal stories from their international moves, including hilarious package delivery mishaps that illustrate how reality often differs dramatically from our assumptions. They explain how the gap between expectations and reality creates emotional "snap" moments, and offer practical tools for realigning expectations to reduce disappointment during times of change. "Something about hearing you explain this cycle of leaving, chaos, entering, settling, makes me feel like so many of the things that I experience in a life of moving and transition are normal," Laura explains. "I think that's when I've done transition seminars, that's one of the things people come out saying is, I feel normal." The conversation addresses why depression and anxiety commonly appear during the entering stage rather than the leaving stage, as people actually live the reality of loss rather than just anticipating it. Laura and Ruthie emphasize that no one is the best version of themselves during transition, encouraging grace for both ourselves and our loved ones as we navigate the vulnerability and adjustment periods that come with major life changes.

    31 min

  11. TRAILER

    Preview for Season 1

    What if the complete chaos you feel during major life changes is actually totally normal? Join host Ruthie Gomez and guest Laura as they break down the four predictable stages of transition and why understanding this cycle can help you navigate change with more peace and less self-judgment. Because here's the truth: no one is the best version of themselves during transition - and that's perfectly okay. Neither Here nor There - Helping you feel normal in the chaos of change. New episodes every Friday.

    3 min

Trailer

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About

Two expats in Spain coming together to teach about what it takes to move into and out of new cultures.

Information

  • Creator
    Neither Here Nor There
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    11
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Neither Here Nor There
  • Show Website
    Neither Here Nor There