Pay Love Forward

Matthew Leavenworth
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Welcome to the Pay Love Forward Podcast. My name is Dr. Matthew Leavenworth, founder and director of Pay Love Forward. This series shares the stories of Montana’s quiet builders of compassion, those who choose to lead with courageous authenticity. At Pay Love Forward, our mission is to build compassionate communities for the at-risk and underserved through mentorship. This podcast is one way we live out that mission.

  1. Sep 13

    Episode27_JimRott_Climbing, Community, and Christ

    Sitting down with Jim Rott, one of the owners of SteepWorld Climbing and Fitness and one of the founding members of the climbing community in Billings Montana, was an absolute honor.  From Gregory Hills to the disc golf courses at Pioneer and Phipps Park, Jim has built lasting resource after lasting resource that our community continues to benefit from.  Jim was the first person I met in Billings Montana in the haze of chalk dust in the dirt bag climbing gym in the EBird, which set off a chain reaction that has led me here.  Through the people he introduced me to and the little community I found at the original SteepWorld, I decided to stay and raise my family.  My family has brought a lot of resources to Billings, including Pay Love Forward, and we are here to stay.  In a city that’s heart beat is its hospitals, Billings is dependent on the doctors who provide the life-saving care that our economy is built on.  Out of those doctors, my wife is as good as they get.  There is no doubt in my mind that we wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for the community Jim built, his support and mentorship, and the way he welcomed me and my family in.  I am eternally grateful for all he has done to make my life and the lives of so many others a better place.  Jim can be found in the flesh, still welcoming climbers into our community at Steep World, mentoring young people, cracking jokes, telling larger than life climbing stories, praying beta about climbs deep in the beartooths that may or may not exist, and just being an all around good dude.  In addition, Jim serves on multiple boards, including Parks and Recreation.  He was one of the founding members of Harvest Church.  Jim has been making Billings a better place for a very long time, but enough of the intro.  It will be better to hear how it all happened from the legend himself, Jim Rott.  The world needs better stories — and Pay Love Forward and Resilient Stories intends to tell them.

  2. Jul 19

    Episode26_Lily Mae_Relentless Resilience (Women's Issues Part 3)

    In this episode, I had the honor of sitting down with Lily Mae, a leader and advocate whose work in domestic violence has strengthened and protected countless lives across our community. Lily Mae's nonprofit, the Montana Domestic Violence Underground Railroad, helps women all over Montana escape captivity at the hands of domestic violence.  The Underground Railroad is so much more than a charitable organization.  It is a living network of people who are coming together to help others escape domestic violence.  This is Part 3 of our series focused on women's issues. According to the CDC, more than one in five women in the United States report experiencing completed or attempted rape during their lifetime, and nearly half experience some form of sexual violence. Many cases are never reported, with only about one in three sexual assaults reaching law enforcement. Experts consistently say the true numbers are significantly higher because many survivors never report what happened to them. These statistics should haunt all of us.  They also demand that we do better, that as a community, we stand up, ask hard questions, and then get to work.  Lily Mae needs our help.  She needs volunteers, money, and everything else a new nonprofit needs to be successful.

  3. Jun 21

    Episode25_Cops, Robbers, and Rappers_Koa Hutchinson (aka Koa La Sosa)

    In this limited series, Pay Love Back: Cops, Robbers, and Rappers, we focus on the interconnected story of leadership, mentorship, and redemption surrounding a young man named Koa Hutchinson. Three men, Officer Brett Hilde, Coal Hill, also known as Killa C, and myself, have each invested in Koa in very different ways. When I first moved to Billings, I worked in a group home at Youth Dynamics. That is where I first met Koa. I worked with him for several years.  I took him fly fishing and rock climbing. I cared deeply about him. And then, as often happens in the system, I lost track of Koa. His story did not stop. He became a prominent gang member in Billings. He was an enforcer and recruiter for one of the most notorious and dangerous gangs in our city before being arrested by Officer Brett Hilde. Years later, while I was sitting in the hospital with my son Gentry, battling his leukemia, Koa called me from prison. In many ways, we were incarcerated together during that season, him behind bars and me beside a hospital bed, as our mentoring relationship resumed. What Koa did next was one of the most courageous decisions I have ever witnessed. While still in prison, he left the gang. Because of the risk this put him in, he spent much of the nextseveral years in administrative segregation, isolated from the general population and trying to survive the bounty placed on his head by the gangs he once worked for.  Over the remainder of his sentence, I spoke to Koa every single week. I believe the phone calls meant as much to me as they did to him.    Six months before recording this podcast, Koa was released from prison. Since then, I have watched him make one difficult and disciplined decision after another. Reentry is not kind to former inmates. The world does not rush to welcome them home. But he has continued moving forward. On January 29th, 2025, Koa stood before fifty community leaders at United Way and spoke about how mentorshipchanged the trajectory of his life. In that room, our community saw something powerful, the possibility that those we once counted out might return and help rebuild the very neighborhoods they once harmed. This series tells the story of how we got there.  It is a miracle we did.  Recorded on Father’s Day, June 21st, 2026, this is and will be one of the proudest and most meaningful moments of mylife.  Thank you, Koa for being willing to share your story.  Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your journey.  What you shared and the courage it took to make it to where you are now is going to bring more healing and hope than you can possibly understand.  I love you like a son.  I am so proud of you.  And we are just getting started.

  4. Jun 17

    Episode24_Cops, Robbers, and Rappers (Part 2) Coul Hill, aka Killa C

    In this limited series, Pay Love Back: Cops, Robbers, andRappers, we focus on the interconnected story of leadership, mentorship, and redemption surrounding a young man and ex-gang member named Koa Hutchinson. Three men, Officer Brett Hilde, Coal Hill, also known as KillaC, and myself, have each invested in Koa in very different ways.  Part Two is with Coul Hill, aka Killa C, a juggalo and shock horror rapper who gained national notoriety after the Insane ClownPosse was officially declared a gang by the FBI.  The Rolling Stone ran a piece on this declaration, and Coul’s picture was featured on the cover, leading me to hum the song “The Cover of the Rolling Stone,” every time I see him.  Both his career in the music industry, and his involvement in organized crime, led Coul down a dark path towards an inevitable outcome, either death or incarceration.  Instead, Coul found Jesus.  His conversion to a life of faith is nothing short of astounding, demonstrating that salvation and redemption do not exclude those we counted out.  Author of the book from Crime to Christ and nearly a dozen albums, featuring artists like Grave Plot and Tech 9, Coul has since dedicated his life to serving others and bringing his gifts to the places and communities where he once, like Koa,caused harm.  Coul is a force of nature, and once he repurposed his gifts for Christ, he has been an unstoppable force.  He has received a doctoral degree in education and is now serving as a principle in an alternative school for youth on their last chance.  Because of his background and life experience, Coul is able to reach the kinds of kids that others simply cannot, kids just like Koa.  Like officer Hilde, Coul has done more to prevent gang violence in our community than anyone I know.         When I think of Coul, Brett, and Koa, I think of a seminal pieceof longitudinal research by Faith Scanlon and her fellow researchers on social support and protective factors.  Scanlonlooked at youth with high ACE Scores in the criminal justice system, examining those who were able to get out and go on to live meaningful and productive lives verses those who went on to recitivize.  The single common denominator the study identified was that all of those who made it out could cite a single thing.  They all had someone in their life who believed in them, saw the good in them even when they fell down, and cared enough to stay in the fight.  Coul, Brett, and myself have all done that for Koa.     I do not want to pretend for a second that this is a story witha happy ending.  What happens next in Koa’s life is unknown.  It is a battle between those who believe in him, his innate capacity for good, and the forces that would drag him back down.  Life isnever straightforward.  It exists in the interconnected spaces of impact, love, and redemption, made up of those of us who grieve and bleed and hurt, but choose to stand up and fight for what is good regardless.  IF YOU ARE ONE OF OUR LISTENERS, PLEASE SHARE, LIKE, AND SUBSCRIBE to the Pay Love Forward Podcast. We need your help making sure these stories are heard.  I’m going to pause right here while you dothis. The world needs more mentors, and Pay Love Forward intends to tell their stories.

  5. Jun 12

    Episode22_Cops, Robbers, and Rappers (Part1) Brett Hilde

    In this limited series, Cops, Robbers, andRappers, we focus on the interconnected story of leadership, mentorship, and redemption surrounding a young man and ex-gang member named Koa Hutchinson.  Three men, Officer Brett Hilde, Coal Hill, also known as Killa C, and myself, have each invested in Koa in very different ways. Part One begins with Officer Brett Hilde, Koa’s arrestingofficer, who shares the path that led him into law enforcement and onto the Billings gang task force. Since Koa’s arrest in 2022. Officer Hilde has done more to disrupt gang violence in thiscity than anyone I know. His story of relentless service is as compelling as Koa’s.  To learn more about Officer HIlde, check out his YouTube channel, Primal Advancements.  He also does contract work in tactical security for our city, providing his expertise and knowledge, to help keep homeowners andbusinesses safe.

  6. May 30

    Episode21_Dr. Mark Manzanares (Higher Ed, Part 1) (Faith and the Holy Spirit (Part 2)

    For this episode, I sat down with one of my mentors and one of the founding builders of the program I benefited so muchfrom.  Dr. Mark Manzanarez was one of the founders of Adam’s State’s online Counselor Education Program where I receivedboth my Masters and PhD.  Mark also received two degrees from Adams State, both as a football player during hisundergraduate degree in psychology and then in his master’s degree in community counseling.  He was hired on to Adam’sState’s counseling program while completing his PhD in Education and Human Resource Studies at Colorado State University. Dr. Mark Manzanares continues to teach Counselor Education atAdams State University and is a former chair of the Counselor Education Department.  He spent decades as a counselor, counselor educator, administrator, and mentor, helping traingenerations of counselors throughout the Rocky Mountain region. He was my professor through multiple stages of my education and mentored me while working on my PhD at Adams State as I wrestled with a traumatic brain injury and myson’s diagnosis of first Down syndrome and then leukemia.  Without his guidance, I would not be where I am today.  Dr. Manzanares has been recognized by Adams State as an Outstanding Alumnus and recipient of the Presidential Teaching Award.  It was an honor to sit down with him, reflect on the profession, and discuss the people, ideas, and experiences that have shaped so many counselors over the years.  It was an honor to hear his story, learn about the adversity he overcame, and the why behind what he has dedicated his life to building.  Thisconversation is also a continuation of the series on faith and the Holy Spirit, and how our shared belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is the driving force behind both of our lives, careers, and ministries.  Thank you, Mark, for everything you have done in my life, for believing in me, and for being a guardian at the gate of the sacred profession of mental health counseling.

  7. May 30

    Episode20_Pastors Matt Brandstadt and Jake Klingen-Smith (Faith and the Holy Spirit, Part 1)

    For this Episode about faith and the Holy Spirit, I sat down with two pastors at the Grey Cliff Mill, Matt Brandstadt and Jake Klingen-Smith.  I have felt for a very long time that Billings is a spiritual battle field.  As a follower of Christ, I am called to spread the story of salvation.  My faith has been an unfolding journey. In so many ways, this conversation is a continuation of my testimony of faith.  I believe Jesus was who he said he was, and when I found out that was true, it changed everything for me.  What I understood as the living water of Christ was only starting to form when I shared my story.  My encounter with the Holy Spirit at Grey Cliff Mill has indelibly shaped my understanding of faith and God’s plan here on earth.  I will be forever grateful for the presence of both Matt and Jake in my life.  They are spiritual mentors who have deeply walked out Christ’s vision for the gospel as living word on earth.  We recorded this a month after a fire that very nearly consumed Grey Cliff Mill.  This conversation is, at its heart about miracles and the living phenomenon of the Holy Spirit.  This fire raged up to the gates of Grey Cliff Mill.  It was an inferno.  Fireteams worked day and night.  As the conflagration reached the fences of Grey Cliff, it suddenly turned, and Grey Cliff Mill was spared.  We intended to talk about this as one of the miracles, but our conversation took us in so many other directions and coveredso many other topics and miracles that we never did.  The news story and video speak for itself.  I am an academic, a writer, anda scientific thinker.  The stories they told me exceed the rational.  They require faith to believe.  For the record, I believe them.  I have never met more genuine, deeply good people.  Theyoverflow in generosity and hospitality.  They have built a sanctuary and invited others inside.  There is a healing force flowing like a fountain from Grey Cliff Mill.  They representexactly what Christ meant when he said we will be known by our fruits.

  8. May 26

    Episode19_StoryAsNonviolentResistance (Part 4) Stumping for Alani

    This series on story as nonviolent resistance has been aboutone thing: who controls the narrative landscape and what does it mean to tell an authentic story.  This episode was recorded in May of 2026, right before the pivotal June primaries and November elections, we are faced with the daunting reality of the level of bad-faith influence and deception surrounding politics.  In the age of AI, dark money, news networks that act like propaganda machines, and billionaires that seem to care about only one thing, more power and wealth, how can we possibly know who to trust?       This episode is a recorded Zoom rally for Alani Bankhead’svolunteers.  Unpacking and understanding the structure of how this is set up is essential.  It is one thing to tell a better story, butit only matters if people are listening.  This episode demonstrates multiple converging techniques that canimprove reach and engagement that can all be replicated by any candidate.  These kinds of tactics are things future storytellers will have to account for in order to get the right stories to translate.  I live streamed this on my account.  Multiple live streams would improve engagement as demonstrated in the previous episode, Asymmetrical Warfare.  We also sent out invites beforehand, announcing it on Facebook and inviting anyone to log on via zoom.  Because of the multiple angles of engagement, we were ableto translate this to a significant audience that wasn’t just confined to this podcast release, which is more didactic than story-driven itself.  In this episode, we cover three things.  A pitch for Alani, Alani’s story and her why, and the campaign outreach coordinator.  Any candidate can do this with their team.  Russ Cleveland did something very similar on his 42ndbirthday.  For candidates, this kind of Zoom meeting is an incredible way to charge up the change makers out there campaigning for you.

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About

Welcome to the Pay Love Forward Podcast. My name is Dr. Matthew Leavenworth, founder and director of Pay Love Forward. This series shares the stories of Montana’s quiet builders of compassion, those who choose to lead with courageous authenticity. At Pay Love Forward, our mission is to build compassionate communities for the at-risk and underserved through mentorship. This podcast is one way we live out that mission.

Information

  • Creator
    Matthew Leavenworth
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    27
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Matthew Leavenworth
  • Show Website
    Pay Love Forward