Positive Disintegration Podcast Emma Nicholson and Dr. Chris Wells

In episode 60, Chris and Emma introduced the theory of positive disintegration in a nutshell. We did our best to make it as approachable as possible and kept jargon to a minimum. Our goal was not to deliver a scholarly presentation of the theory but one for the layperson going through positive disintegration.
This introduction was created especially for the 2024 Dabrowski Congress for attendees who want to learn more about the theory behind the conference. Our hope is that it will serve for years to come as a primer for positive disintegration. As Emma often says, TPD is not only a theory but an experience, and those going through it appreciate a mirror that makes sense of their struggles.
The topics we covered:
- Background of Dr. Kazimierz Dabrowski
- Nervousness, Psychological Tension and Big Emotions
- The Five Types of Overexcitabilities
- Types of Development, Developmental Potential and Multilevelness, and Multilevelness in Personality Growth
- Hierarchy of Values, the Third Factor of Development (and Nature, Nurture, and the Third Factor)
- Unilevel vs. Multilevel Disintegration
- Positive Maladjustment, Spontaneous Multilevel Disintegration, Pain, and Self-Reflection
- Challenges in Discovering and Acting on Values, and Organized Multilevel Disintegration
- Transforming Overexcitabilities into Tools for Growth
- Lifelong Journey of Personal Growth, and Personality as an Achievement
- Resources, DC2024, and Final Thoughts
Register for DC2024 at https://dabrowskicenter.org/register
If you want to join one of Chris’s courses this year, click here to register your interest and receive more information.
We created Dabrowski 101 as a video and podcast episode. You can watch the video on YouTube.
Quotes
“The prefix over attached to ‘excitability’ serves to indicate that the reactions of excitation are over and above average in intensity, duration, and frequency” (Dabrowski, 1996, p. 7, Multilevelness of Emotional and Instinctive Functions).
"Making multilevelness the central concept in the approach to development means that we have to apply it to every phenomenon under scrutiny. It means that we are using a new key, or paradigm, with which to approach human behavior and its development. It now becomes less meaningful to consider, for instance, aggression, inferiority, empathy, or sexual behavior as unitary phenomena, but it becomes more meaningful to examine different levels of these behaviors." (Dabrowski, 1996, p. 10)
“Discovering in ourselves higher levels of development, higher tendencies, and sensitivities, we simultaneously create them.” Dabrowski, 1994, "The Heroism of Sensitivity," an interview in Advanced Development Journal.
"Do not run from yourself but conquer yourself!" P. Cienin, 1972, p. 40, (Existential Thoughts and Aphorisms).
“Movement from “what is” to “what ought to be” opens a channel for resolution and direction of developmental tensions. When this channel is not open, as in unilevel disintegration, the tensions lead to severe psychosomatic illness, psychosis, or suicide.” Dabrowski, 1977, p. 43, (Theory of Levels of Emotional Development, Vol. 1)
“Crises are periods of increased insight into oneself, creativity, and personality development” Dabrowski, 1964, p. 18, (Positive Disintegration)
More resources
* Download a PDF with the list and short definitions of dynamisms at https://dabrowskicenter.org/1977
* For more on "nervousness" and the history of overexcitability: https://dabrowskicenter.org/origins
* The book we mentioned on the slide with five types of OE was "Mellow Out," They Say. If I Only Could" by Michael M. Piechowski.
* Download Table 1 from Mellow Out, Forms and Expressions of Overexcitability
* The following papers from Michael M. Piechowski include case studies of moral exemplars that shed more light on the higher-level dynamisms:
* Piechowski (1990): Inner Growth and Transformation in the Life of Eleanor Roosevelt
* Piechowski (1992): Ett

In episode 59, Chris and Emma were joined by Dr. Sergej van Middendorp and Abbie VanMeter of the CMM Institute for Personal and Social Evolution. We discussed the CMM (Coordinated Management of Meaning) theory and its intersection with the theory of positive disintegration.
Sergej helps generate healthy systems with action research-based practice in improvisation, design, and communication. In the Netherlands, he facilitates a collaborative support network of caregivers and IT providers in their development of an integral digital health system. He is on the CMM Institute's Board of Stewards.
Abbie is the host of the Stories Lived. Stories Told. podcast. In partnership with the CMM Institute for Personal and Social Evolution, she is involved in a number of projects that work to make the tools, language, and knowledge offered by the communication theory Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM) more accessible.
CMM theory posits that persons in conversation (when we communicate with each other) co-create their social realities, and are simultaneously shaped by the worlds they construct. Its focus is on storytelling and meaning-making, and the goal of the CMM Institute is to create better social worlds, by helping people communicate in healthier (and more conscious) ways.
Meaning is socially constructed—we all have a part in its creation. We discussed how one intersection between positive disintegration and CMM theory is how positive communication and storytelling can include conscious choice, awareness, and relational dynamics in shaping personal growth and social interactions. By being mindful of the stories we tell and the meaning we create through communication, we can contribute to building better social worlds and fostering genuine connections with others.
Both CMM theory and the theory of positive disintegration provide language to name and understand our experiences. These frameworks are empowering because they serve as toolkits that can help us in our meaning-making efforts.
Abbie and Sergej will be presenting virtually at the 2024 Dabrowski Congress in the session “Improvising Personal and Social Evolution with the Theory of Positive Disintegration (TPD) and the Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM).”
Resources from this Episode
CMM Institute website
Stories Lived. Stories Told. Podcast
“Plan for Emergence” episode with Abbie and Sergej
Chris and Emma were on Episode 44 and Episode 45
on Substack
CosmoKidz
CosmoTeenz Fellows on Instagram
Watch Sergej and Abbie’s preview video for DC2024.
Click here to register for the 2024 Dabrowski Congress
We want to thank the CMM Institute for becoming a DC2024 sponsor!
Positive Disintegration Podcast, Ep. 22 on Nonviolent Communication
Connect with us
Positive Disintegration on Substack
Visit the Dabrowski Center website
Facebook
Instagram
The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel
Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook
The Tragic Gift blog by Emma
Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com
Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.
Find Positive Disintegration Merch
If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 58, Chris and Emma shared a preview of the workshop they’ll deliver together at the 2024 Dabrowski Congress on July 11, 2024. We started with an overview of the Congress schedule, highlighting the mix of virtual and in-person sessions designed to cater to a diverse audience. Our workshop, which is virtual only, aims to assist participants in aligning their actions with their values—a crucial step toward achieving authenticity.
We discussed the importance of understanding and defining personal values and how these guide our behaviors and decisions. Drawing on our experiences and insights, we emphasized the role of values in navigating periods of disintegration and personal growth.
We also touched on the structure of our workshop, which will include practical exercises to help attendees articulate their values and develop a personal action plan to embody these values in their daily lives. The workshop is designed to be interactive, allowing for personal reflection and group discussion.
Finally, we encouraged our listeners to register for the Congress and join us in this transformative workshop! We concluded by expressing our excitement about the opportunity to share tools and strategies that have significantly impacted our own journeys toward authenticity.
Join us at the Dabrowski Congress to explore how you can walk your talk and be true to your values.
Visit the official DC2024 page
Register for the 2024 Dabrowski Congress on Eventbrite
Connect with us
Positive Disintegration on Substack
Visit the Dabrowski Center website
Facebook
Instagram
The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel
Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook
The Tragic Gift blog by Emma
Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com
Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.
Find Positive Disintegration Merch
If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 57, Chris and Emma talked with Summer Cowick, an educator with over 15 years of classroom experience specializing in gifted education in Kansas City. Through her coaching organization, Brilliant And Then Some, Summer strives to empower gifted and talented children and their families, guiding them through individual circumstances to unlock their full potential and achieve lasting happiness.
For educators and parents, this episode offers practical insights and strategies for supporting overexcitable and gifted students. This is the first time we explicitly address the issue of overexcitability in the classroom. We discussed the impact of Dabrowski’s theory in educational settings, and how understanding overexcitabilities can transform teaching and learning experiences.
Our discussion covered a wide range of topics, from applying Dabrowski's theory in the classroom to understanding giftedness beyond the stereotypical traits and the crucial role authenticity plays in education. Summer shared some challenges and strategies for recognizing and nurturing giftedness in students from diverse racial and socio-economic backgrounds. We talk about the crucial role of authenticity for both students and teachers, including how it influences educational outcomes and personal development.
We all shared personal anecdotes about giftedness and overexcitabilities at school. We hope this conversation will help illuminate the complexities of navigating education, including the challenges of sensory overloads, and maintaining personal autonomy and authenticity in overwhelming environments.
Summer’s experiences and insights remind us of the power of understanding and leveraging psychological theories like Dabrowski’s to enhance educational practices and support students’ unique needs. Whether you are a teacher, parent, or someone interested in the psychology of education, this episode provides valuable perspectives on making education a more inclusive and transformative experience.
Make sure you listen to the end so you can enjoy our hilarious outtakes!
Resources from this episode
Brilliant and Then Some (Summer’s website)
2024 Dabrowski Congress info page. Summer’s session is “The Real Deal—OEs in the Classroom.” Click here to register.
“Mellow Out,” They say. If I Only Could: Intensities and Sensitivities of the Young and Bright” by Michael M. Piechowski
Living with Intensity by Susan Daniels and Michael M. Piechowski (Eds.)
Sneaky Stimming video by Emma
Episode 56: Autoethnography for Personal Growth
Mental Floss article: When Tipper Gore Took On 80s Rock Music
Connect with us
Positive Disintegration on Substack
Visit the Dabrowski Center website
Facebook
Instagram
The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel
Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook
The Tragic Gift blog by Emma
Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com
Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.
Find Positive Disintegration Merch
If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

[Voiceover of written post] The song You’ll Never Walk Alone began life on Broadway in 1945, thanks to Rodgers and Hammerstein. It was instantly popular, and has been covered by many artists over the years. But in 1963, Gerry And The Pacemakers did their version, and Liverpudlian magic was made. The song has been fully adopted by Liverpool FC, being sung before every game, and the words ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ being incorporated into the team emblem and forged into the gates of Anfield stadium.
It is an uplifting song of hope. The lyrics convey comfort and solidarity. To many, the message of this song is clear—in times of trouble, you’re not alone. But if we dig a little deeper, we start to understand the true nature of the troubled times. We start to understand the reasons why you’ll never walk alone. More importantly, we can explore how this underlying message is a critical component for navigating Dabrowski’s framework of positive disintegration. 
Walk the path towards your authentic self, and you’ll never walk alone.


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

Welcome to the first official “From the Archive” post. We’ve added DC Archive to our Substack navbar, where you’ll find posts like this one with media shared from our Dabrowski Center archive.
The presentation featured in this post was given by Dr. Michael M. Piechowski at the 12th Annual Hollingworth Conference for Highly Gifted in Manchester, New Hampshire, in May 1999.
This audio recording was converted to mp3 from a cassette tape Michael sent to Chris in June 2018. The handout was discovered in a box of transparencies and documents Michael shared with Chris in May 2021. 
For those who are new here, Michael joined us on Episode 48 of the podcast. Click here for more posts and episodes mentioning Michael.
Only the first 45 minutes of the recording were available. The rest is missing in audio, but you can find it in the handout. Visit the Substack post for the handout and transcript.


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe