Interbeing

Hosted by Matt Hall and Naomi Ward. Produced by Emily Crosby and Kyra Kellawan.
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Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond. In this new season we return to the heart of our work: coaching as a way of being. Together we explore how presence, curiosity, and care can shift not just our conversations, but our cultures. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching on “interbeing,” we recognise that nothing exists in isolation — every choice, every relationship, every pause matters. Expect honest dialogue, stories from the field, and a commitment to learning in public. Not as answers, but as invitations to think differently about leadership, community, and the future of education. You can find out more about Futures-Focused Leadership Coaching for International Schools and MSB at www.makingstuffbetter.com

  1. 12/18/2025

    Exploring Interconnectedness: a mid-point pause

    At this mid-point in the season, we’re taking a short pause, and asking ourselves the question - What does it mean to be human? In this episode Naomi and Matt discuss the importance of understanding the human condition, the temporary nature of the term 'human,' and the ongoing quest for connection in an increasingly isolated world. They look back at some highlights of our conversations so far, and forward to more to come. The podcast will be back in January 2026. You can find us on Linkedin at Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/ Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

    15 min
  2. Human Connection and Purpose in International Education, with Hayley Wilson

    12/04/2025

    Human Connection and Purpose in International Education, with Hayley Wilson

    In this episode of Interbeing we dive into a profound conversation with Hayley Wilson, Deputy Head of the Senior School at Kellett School in Hong Kong. We explore the role of coaching in fostering a sense of community and humanity within schools, emphasizing values of care, curiosity, and meaningful relationships. Hayley shares her personal and professional journey toward adopting a purpose-driven and coaching-focused ethos, highlighting the significant cultural shifts at Kellett School toward connection, respect, and intentionality in both student and staff development. 02:04 Introducing Hayley Wilson and Kellett School 03:17 What Does It Mean to Be Human? 04:21 The Frenzied Nature of School Life 05:52 Finding Alternatives to Frenzy 08:34 The Importance of Connection and Culture 12:09 Discovering Coaching and Its Impact 18:54 The Power of Purpose in Education 21:50 Creating Conditions for Future Success 22:22 Purpose-Driven Leadership 23:52 Building a Culture of Respect 26:10 Challenges and Intentionality in Leadership 30:05 Cross-Cultural Leadership Dynamics 32:41 Reflections on Team Building 35:01 Final Thoughts and Takeaways Hayley is the Deputy Head Pastoral, Wellbeing and Community and DSL of Senior of Kellett , The British International School in Hong Kong. Hayley has 18 years of experience as a teacher and leader, 13 years of which have been in an international setting - having worked previously in the USA and Egypt. Hayley holds an MA in Leadership of Mental Health and Wellbeing in Schools and has written a bespoke course in how to be a Senior Mental Health Lead in an International Setting. Hayley is a purpose driven educator, committed to supporting every child as part of a team who are committed to living their values. You can find us on Linkedin at Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/ Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

    40 min
  3. Cultural Change through Coaching, with Chris Bromham

    11/20/2025

    Cultural Change through Coaching, with Chris Bromham

    In this episode Matt and Naomi discuss the profound impact of coaching on school culture with their guest, Chris Broman from ICS Madrid. They explore themes of interconnectedness, the transformative power of coaching, and the importance of maintaining humanity in education. Chris shares his experiences and insights from introducing coaching into his school, highlighting the challenges and successes of this journey. The conversation delves into the organic growth of coaching practices, the importance of faith in the process, and the resulting positive changes in staff and student interactions. Tune in to hear a rich dialogue about the role of coaching in supporting a generative and reflective educational environment. 02:01 Introducing Chris Broman from ICS Madrid 02:38 Chris Broman's Perspective on Coaching in Schools 06:29 The Journey of Implementing Coaching at ICS Madrid 08:24 Challenges and Successes in Coaching Implementation 10:43 The Impact of Coaching on School Culture 11:26 The Role of Faith and Flexibility in Cultural Change 18:03 Practical Applications and Observations 22:14 Unlearning and Personal Growth in Coaching 27:58 The Ripple Effect: Coaching's Impact on Students 30:23 Looking Ahead: The Future of Coaching at ICS Madrid 31:36 Final Thoughts and Appreciation 32:41 Conclusion: Reflecting on the Conversation Originally from Wales, Chris brings a wealth of educational experience and international perspective to his role as Principal International College Spain, which is now a European partner school for MSB, hosting coach education programmes for other schools in the region. Chris holds degrees in Mathematics and Sports Science as well as a Masters in Educational Leadership. He has taught across a range of international schools in Bahrain, Korea and Dubai. Before joining ICS, he was Principal of Uptown International School (a three-programme IB school) in Dubai. Chris is highly committed to helping young people find their passions in life through a strong co-curricular programme and inspiring classroom experiences. In addition, he is a facilitator and assessor for the National Professional Qualification for Headteachers, Senior Leaders and Middle Leaders, working with the Institute of Education in the UK. You can find us on Linkedin at Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/ Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

    37 min
  4. Embracing Ubuntu in Coaching, with Nobantu Mpotulo

    11/06/2025

    Embracing Ubuntu in Coaching, with Nobantu Mpotulo

    In this episode we delve into the philosophy and practice of coaching, with Nobantu Mpotulo, a coach from Pretoria, South Africa, who introduces listeners to the concept of Ubuntu and the importance of seeing the interconnectedness in all human relationships. The conversation explores how embracing these principles can transform coaching practices and personal development, encouraging a collective approach to growth, presence, and empathy. The episode underscores the necessity of moving beyond individual gains to consider the broader ecosystem of impact and relationships. 02:01 Welcome to the Episode with Nobantu Mpotulo 02:24 Coaching and Ubuntu 05:19 The Essence of Being Human 08:20 Western Coaching Models vs. Ubuntu 23:31 The Diamond Approach and Presence 32:51 The Seven Cs of Ubuntu 36:37 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Nobantu Mpotulo hails from South Africa. Being amongst the first five African Coaches globally to be accredited as a MCC by the International Coach Federation, and having experience in varied sectors, Nobanto is a sought-after facilitator for Leadership Development Programs and coaches internationally. Nobantu follows the agenda of the client in her coaching. Through probing questions and sharing just in time observations, she takes clients deep and helps them to identify their blind spots and embrace their shadows. Clients go deeper into the sub-conscious and unconscious levels and dance with what emerges. She provides a safe and open space for focus and exploration. She moves on a continuum of being non-directive to directive depending on what is missing in the client’s system. No matter what she does she gets to the HEART of the client and the HEART of the matter. As a Buddhist practitioner and teacher she supports her clients in integrating the head, heart, instinctual and spiritual intelligence. She does amazing heart work with clients based on the principles of UBUNTU ‘I am because we are’. Nobantu is an accredited Enneagram Teacher (Narrative Tradition) and Enneagram Coach (Enneagram in Business and Deep Coaching). She is a Buddhist Teacher, a Process Facilitator and Facilitator of Peace Circles. She trains, supervises and Mentor Coaches other coaches. She has experience in the private, public, NGO, NPO, Higher Education, as a coach and an OD Facilitator. Nobantu developed the Ubuntu Coaching programme that assists coaches to connect at the heart level with their clients. Live coach demonstrations on Ubuntu Coaching have been done both locally and internationally. You can find us on Linkedin at Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/ Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

    41 min
  5. Exploring Coaching and Cultural Integration, with Mai Mahmoud

    10/22/2025

    Exploring Coaching and Cultural Integration, with Mai Mahmoud

    In this episode, the conversation centers on coaching within educational environments, emphasizing how coaching techniques align with and support both personal growth and community development. Our guest, Mai Mahmoud, shares her journey from initial skepticism to embracing coaching as a way of life, deeply integrated with her Islamic faith. The discussion explores the impact of cultural and linguistic context on the adoption of coaching practices and highlights the importance of listening, empowerment, and creating authentic relationships in educational settings. 00:00 Welcome to Inter Being 02:01 Introducing Our Guest: Mai Mahmoud 03:46 Mai's Journey into Coaching 07:39 The Impact of Coaching on Faith and Teaching 23:09 Creating a Coaching Culture in Schools 27:36 Reflections and Future Directions 39:48 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Mai Mahmoud is Head of Islamic and Social Studies in The British School Abu Dhabi. She holds a master’s degree in Teaching Methodology, and is passionate about nurturing young learners through faith-based education that emphasizes character, compassion, and connection. One of the most transformative experiences in her journey has been learning to coach, which helped her truly understand and respect the quality of listening — not just as a skill, but as a core value in human development. She blends her love of coaching deeply with Islamic principles that honor empathy, growth, and the dignity of every individual. Through her work,  she aims to create spaces where children feel spiritually grounded and inspired to live with purpose. You can find us on Linkedin at Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/ Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

    43 min
  6. Interconnectedness, AI and Coaching, with Rob Kemp

    10/08/2025

    Interconnectedness, AI and Coaching, with Rob Kemp

    Diving into the core of coaching, the episode explores its values and impact on individuals and organisations, particularly schools. Our guest, Rob Kemp, shares insights on measuring the impact of coaching, the role of authenticity, and the emerging relationship between AI and coaching. The conversation also touches on the readiness of organisations for coaching and the broader implications of these practices on human connectedness and organizational culture. 00:00 Welcome to Interbeing: A New Season Begins 02:01 Introducing Today's Guest: Rob Kemp 03:34 What Does Being Human Mean to You? 03:59 Authenticity and Relational Coaching 07:54 Deficit vs. Strengths-Based Models in Education 13:36 The Future of Coaching: Revolution or Evolution? 22:35 AI and the Democratization of Coaching 23:40 Six Criteria for Organizational Coaching 25:38 AI's Limitations in Coaching 30:08 Challenges and Misconceptions in Coaching 31:57 Ensuring Organisational Readiness for Coaching 42:42 The Importance of Trust in Coaching 43:19 Final Thoughts and Reflections A qualified and experienced Coach, Rob Kemp is a Doctor of Coaching & Mentoring, (2021) holding an MSc in Coaching & Mentoring (2013), and a post-graduate certificate in coaching (2005). He has coaching experience in the public sector, commercial organisations, education, not-for-profit and voluntary organisations. Sector experience in creative and digital industries, life sciences, new technology, low carbon and clean technology, with extensive experience of senior management and directorships in varied organisations, and specific responsibility for performance, learning and development. Rob was previously the large organisation liaison person (LOLP) for the European Mentoring and Coaching Council, and coordinator for East Midlands Regional Network. You can find Rob’s paper on AI and coaching, written with Tatiana Bachkirova, at https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17521882.2024.2368598#abstract You can find us on Linkedin at Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/ Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

    45 min
  7. Making teaching a more family-friendly career for parents: Emma Sheppard of the MTPT Project

    09/24/2025

    Making teaching a more family-friendly career for parents: Emma Sheppard of the MTPT Project

    In the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now rebranded as 'Interbeing', the focus returns to coaching and its values in supporting both self-reflection and cultivating generative relationships within educational environments. The term 'inter being,' coined by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, frames this season’s exploration of interconnectedness.  Hosts Matt and Naomi introduce guest Emma Sheppard, a passionate advocate for family-friendly schools, to discuss the impact of coaching on personal growth and professional development. Emma shares her experiences with coaching, her transition into motherhood, and founding the Maternity Teacher Paternity Teacher (MTPT) Project. The episode delves into the challenges and opportunities for educational institutions to support their staff as multifaceted human beings, emphasizing the importance of listening, presence, and personal fulfillment in fostering a positive and thriving school environment. 00:00 Welcome to Series Four: Exploring Interbeing 02:03 Introducing Emma Shepherd: Advocate for Family Friendly Schools 03:18 The Power of Coaching: Transforming Challenges into Opportunities 08:20 Emma's Journey: From Hopelessness to Empowerment 16:39 Balancing Motherhood and Career: The MTPT Project 26:01 The Role of Coaching in Supporting Parents 30:46 Creating Family Friendly Work Environments 40:59 Concluding Thoughts: The Human Experience in Education Emma Sheppard founded The Maternity Teacher Paternity Teacher (MTPT) Project, the UK's charity for parent-teachers, whilst on maternity leave with her son in 2016. Having trained through Teach First as an English teacher in 2010, she continued to teach in the British International School, Ho Chi Minh, acting as Head of House, before returning to the UK as Lead Practitioner at an academy in South London. Here, she held responsibility for ITT provision, teaching and learning, and line managed the EAL department. In 2020, Emma began training as a coach with The Coaching Academy, and then relocated to the south of France with her family in 2021 to coach and run The MTPT Project full time. The MTPT Project is the UK's charity for parent-teachers. From humble beginnings as a blog and a Twitter handle, inspiring, empowering and connecting teachers choosing to complete personal and professional development whilst on parental leave, The MTPT Project has grown into the voice of parent-teachers in the UK. The charity runs training and networking events, provides 1:1 and group coaching to teachers on leave, and is the only organisation completing research into women aged 30-39 - the largest demographic to leave teaching every year. Since 2016, The MTPT Project has worked to tackle the motherhood penalty in education, to transform education into a sustainable and "life-friendly" career choice for all. Find out more about MTPT at https://www.mtpt.org.uk/ You can find us on Linkedin at Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/ Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

    45 min

  8. 09/10/2025 · BONUS

    A Keynote Conversation: Fostering Brave Spaces and Curiosity with Claire Pedrick

    Welcome to the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now titled Interbeing. This season focuses on how coaching values can support school communities by encouraging inward reflection and outward, generative relationships. Inspired by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s concept of 'inter-being', this series explores the interconnectedness of all things. We engage in conversations with coaches and educators, dissecting where coaching succeeds and where it doesn't.  This episode, a bonus beginning to our new series, takes us back to our Re:Sourcing Yourself in Uncertain Times online conference in June. We hosted the inimitable Claire Pedrick, founder of 3D coaching and The Coaching Inn podcast, to have a “keynote conversation” with Naomi Ward, our Head of Learning. It wasn’t at all rehearsed. Naomi and Claire opened the day – not with a speech and cue cards, but with a pause. In a warm, unhurried conversation, they explored what it means to lead as the human you are, not just the role you play. Claire reminded us that presence often matters more than speed, and that resourcing ourselves is not indulgence but responsibility. Together, they modelled the quiet courage of listening well, noticing what keeps us steady, and letting go of doing more in favour of doing what matters.  For school leaders holding so much for others, it was a gentle provocation: Who – or what – is holding you? In this episode, Matt begins with a recitation of Mickey ScottBey Jones's poem about creating 'brave spaces' and discusses the importance of honesty, vulnerability, and simplicity in dialogues. Claire Pedrick and Naomi Ward then lead an in-depth discussion on fostering meaningful conversations in school environments. 00:00 Welcome to Inter Being: Introduction and New Name 02:02 Setting the Tone: Creating a Brave Space 04:29 Introducing Claire: A Journey of Identity and Roles 05:56 The Essence of Conversations: Simplicity and Vulnerability 09:56 Navigating Transformational Conversations 18:51 The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership 24:35 Practical Tips for Effective Communication 38:36 Resourcing and Support: Personal Insights 40:55 Conclusion: Reflecting on the Dialogue You can find us on Linkedin at Claire Pedrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairepedrick/ Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/ Re:Sourcing Yourself in Uncertain Times: https://makingstuffbetter.com/resourcing-yourself-in-a-time-of-uncertainty/ Interbeing 2026:https://makingstuffbetter.com/interbeing/ Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/ and Kyra Kellawan

    42 min
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About

Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond. In this new season we return to the heart of our work: coaching as a way of being. Together we explore how presence, curiosity, and care can shift not just our conversations, but our cultures. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching on “interbeing,” we recognise that nothing exists in isolation — every choice, every relationship, every pause matters. Expect honest dialogue, stories from the field, and a commitment to learning in public. Not as answers, but as invitations to think differently about leadership, community, and the future of education. You can find out more about Futures-Focused Leadership Coaching for International Schools and MSB at www.makingstuffbetter.com

Information

  • Creator
    Hosted by Matt Hall and Naomi Ward. Produced by Emily Crosby and Kyra Kellawan.
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2025
  • Episodes
    46
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Interbeing
  • Show Website
    Interbeing