rationally BASED

Center of the American Experiment
  • 4.7 (63)
  • POLITICS

Welcome to rationally BASED, a podcast about law and politics, on the edge. Law professor Ilan Wurman, with co-hosts Kathryn Johnson and Grace Keating, cover cutting-edge, and edgy, legal and political news, ideas, and developments. 

Episodes

  1. 5H AGO

    Episode 9 | Birthright Citizenship: The Deep Dive

    Our hosts, law professor Ilan Wurman and Kathryn Johnson, finally take their promised deep dive into the birthright citizenship case that the Supreme Court will hear next week. Ilan recently testified in Congress on the issue, and has a lot to get off his chest. He and Kathryn discuss Peter Schweizer's testimony about Saipan, an island north of Guam for which there is statutory birthright citizenship and lax visa rules for Chinese citizens. Schweizer estimates that upwards of hundreds of thousands of children might have been born in Saipan to Chinese parents who would now be American citizens if the conventional wisdom prevails. They talk about legislative solutions to problems that might occur if the Supreme Court rules in favor of the Trump Administration, including using Congress's naturalization power. They observe how the Democrats had mostly emotional arguments at the hearing. Ilan talks about his argument: how at common law, the test was not birth alone, but rather birth to parents under the sovereign's protection. He explains how consent was a precondition to protection, and protection was necessary to jurisdiction. Ilan talks about his disagreement with Chuck Cooper, who thinks Wong Kim Ark was wrongly decided. Our hosts then talk about the government's argument about temporary sojourners, and whether we're allowed to cite as evidence sources written by people in the past who held racist views. They talk about some amicus briefs, including Akhil Amar's "under the flag" brief, which obscures more than it helps. Finally, they talk about Adrian Vermeule's post in the New Digest, arguing that the nature of republics and general principles of jurisprudence answer the question at hand better than originalism can.  Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED! Subscribe to our Substack! New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube! Follow us on social media on Instagram, X, Facebook, and TikTok! Show Notes/Resources: Listen to Ilan's opening remarks at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing. Ilan's Amicus Brief to the Supreme Court. The Invisible Coup by Peter Schweizer. National security amicus brief by Joshua Steinman. Akhil Amar's amicus brief. Adrian Vermeule on birthright citizenship and originalism.

    1h 18m

  2. MAR 19

    Episode 8 | Asymmetrical Lawfare

    Our hosts, law professor Ilan Wurman and Kathryn Johnson, are joined by conservative law students at the podcast’s first ever live taping, at ASU. The hosts tackle one of the most important and controversial legal issues of the day: the asymmetrical lawfare and “barfare” against Trump and Republicans. Does the left play by the rule of law? Do they like the rule of law for themselves, but not for others? Should conservatives start playing by their rules? In terms of legal doctrine, should they embrace an aggressive version of substantive of due process? Common good constitutionalism? Our hosts tackle the recent Korean Spa case out of the Ninth Circuit with the now famous “swinging d—-“ reference. Finally, they talk more about birthright citizenship and take questions from the audience.

    1h 14m

  3. MAR 17

    BONUS Episode 7.5 | Are District Courts a Threat to the Republic?

    In this bonus episode, our host, law professor Ilan Wurman, gives a talk to a conference of conservative law students on Trump vs. the courts. Are we in a constitutional crisis? Is it because the executive is disrespecting the courts, or because the courts are disrespecting the executive? Can the President ever ignore a court order? What if the court doesn't have jurisdiction? Who decides that question? And what can courts do better to respect the President and ensure they have jurisdiction? Our host makes some suggestions about causes of actions and injunctions. Please enjoy this special bonus episode of Rationally BASED. Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED! New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube! Follow us on social media on Instagram, X, Facebook, and TikTok!

    28 min

  4. MAR 12

    Episode 7 | Maryland Man and Law Firms

    Our hosts, law professor Ilan Wurman and Kathryn Johnson, are joined by special guest host Will Chamberlain. They take a deep dive into the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case and study it as a microcosm of immigration law and the immigration bar. What is the difference between asylum and withholding of removal? Can Kilmar be deported to a third country? Why can't the government detain him? Are district judges playing interference and engaging in lawfare against the Trump Administration? Do immigration lawyers coach their clients to lie? What are the Supreme Court's leading precedents about "due process" and detention? They also discuss a crazy case out of the Third Circuit where the lower courts held not only that the Biden Administration couldn't detain illegal aliens pending deportation even if they had committed serious crimes, but also that the U.S. taxpayers had to pay their attorney's fees. Finally, our hosts talk about Trump's crusade against big law -- and why they think big law does need to be brought to heel. Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED! New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube! Follow us on social media on Instagram, X, Facebook, and TikTok!

    1h 5m

  5. MAR 5

    Episode 6 | Bombs & Basketball

    Our hosts, law professor Ilan Wurman and Kathryn Johnson and Grace Keating, take a deep dive into the legal questions surrounding the military strikes in Iran and the earlier capture of Maduro. What is international law? Is it really "law"? What is "law" anyway? Hear our hosts talk about the surprising connection to basketball. But even if it's law, should we care about it? What does that have to do with the President's constitutional authority? Our hosts investigate the Office of Legal Counsel's modern framework for engaging in military strikes without congressional authorization, which was used to justify strikes in Libya in 2011. If those strikes can be used to eliminate Libya's leader, why not Venezuela's or Iran's? But, is that modern legal framework consistent with the original meaning of the Constitution? Our hosts explore all that and more - including the political implications of the strikes. Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED! New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube! Follow us on social media on Instagram, X, Facebook, and TikTok!

    1h 6m

  6. FEB 26

    Episode 5 | Taxes, Tariffs, and Hypocrites

    Our hosts, law professor Ilan Wurman and Kathryn Johnson, take a deep dive into the Supreme Court's recent decision invalidating many of the Trump Tariffs enacted under IEEPA, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. Are tariffs taxes? Or can they be used for regulatory purposes? Our hosts cover the question from the perspective of the American Revolution through the twentieth century. Putting the statutory question aside, what should we do now that the statute used to have a legislative veto, but such vetoes have been held to be unconstitutional? What about the nondelegation doctrine? The "Major Questions Doctrine"? Our hosts break it down. And are the three Democrat-appointed Justices hypocrites for ruling in favor of sweeping delegations to President Biden, but reading IEEPA narrowly? What's Gorsuch's beef with everyone? Finally, our hosts take a look at the origins of "originalism" and Jeffrey Toobin's NYT article about the American Constitution Society's radical plan to remake the Supreme Court. (Spoiler alert: there is no plan.) Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED:  @RationallyBasedPodcast New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube! Follow us on social media on Instagram, X, Facebook, and TikTok

    1h 6m

  7. FEB 19

    Episode 4 | Polar Bears and Benchslaps

    Our hosts, law professor Ilan Wurman and Kathryn Johnson and Grace Keating, start this episode with major news out of the EPA: it has rescinded the Obama-era "endangerment" finding the supported the regulation of C02. Find out how EPA came to regulate this greenhouse gas in the first place, whether it's really a "pollutant" within the meaning of the Clean Air Act, and whether Massachusetts ever had standing to bring a lawsuit in the first place over claims that it might lose some coastline. Our hosts revisit the Fifth Circuit decision and some fallout, and address whether it violates due process or the Eighth Amendment. (It almost certainly doesn't.) Finally, our hosts continue their discussion of birthright citizenship, connecting the concept of "protection" to "jurisdiction." Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED:  @RationallyBasedPodcast New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube! Follow us on social media on Instagram, X, Facebook, or TikTok

    1h 4m

  8. FEB 12

    Episode 3 | Habeas Corpus Chaos

    Our hosts, law professor Ilan Wurman and Kathryn Johnson and Grace Keating, start this episode with a lightning round of legal news. Learn why it's totally fine for the Supreme Court to be "secretive" (whatever that means). Our hosts discuss a DEI victory for the Trump Administration and a judge's concurring opinion to his own opinion, and why it seems so hard from some liberal judges to keep their politics out of their rulings. Hear about the constitutional distribution of power over elections. And our hosts break down a tentative Trump victory over whether California can require federal officers to wear face masks. The episode then takes a deep dive into the controversial Fifth Circuit ruling that held immigrants illegally in the country must be detained prior to deportation, the flood of habeas corpus petitions that the ruling my stanch, and why the Fifth Circuit is probably right but it's a hard question of statutory interpretation (even if it's not hard as a matter of common sense). Finally, as promised, our hosts begin their discussion of birthright citizenship. Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED:  @RationallyBasedPodcast New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube! Follow us on social media on Instagram, X, Facebook, or TikTok!

    1h 4m

  9. FEB 5

    Episode 2 | Farmer Don Lemon

    On this episode of rationally BASED, our hosts, law professor Ilan Wurman and Kathryn Johnson and Grace Keating, discuss Don Lemon and the freedom of the press and what that also teaches us about Citizens United. They recall the famous State of the Union where Justice Alito made a face at President Obama, and discuss whether judges like Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson should be allowed to be political and attend the Grammys. They trace the origins of the New Deal state and the expansion of the commerce clause and offer to defend Don Lemon if he’s willing to sacrifice the New Deal. They then turn to the Census and whether illegal aliens must count for apportionment. They throw in a dash of Norman Conquest to top it all off. Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE to rationally BASED:  @RationallyBasedPodcast New Podcast Episodes every Thursday morning, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or on YouTube! Follow us on social media at: Instagram, X, Facebook, or TikTok!

    55 min

  10. JAN 29

    Episode 1 | Swarm of Harpies

    In the first episode of rationally BASED, our hosts cover Minnesota’s lawsuit against the federal government’s ICE surge, which they deem dead on arrival. They explore the historical underpinnings of state-federal cooperation. The Insurrection Act explained. They even cover the attempted assassination of a U.S. Supreme Court Justice by a former California Supreme Court Justice in the 1800s and what that tells us about executive power. Find out why everybody is wrong about administrative warrants. And why Don Lemon should read up on the First Amendment. Be sure to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE and follow us on socials: Instagram Facebook Youtube TikTok

    1h 4m

  11. JAN 28

    COMING SOON: The rationally BASED Podcast

    Who's excited for the very first episode of the Rationally Based Podcast feat. Ilan Wurman, Kathryn Johnson, and Grace Keating, presented by the American Experiment! Dropping tomorrow at 6am, here is a sneak peak at what we are covering:

    1 min
  • 11 Episodes

4.7
out of 5
63 Ratings

About

Welcome to rationally BASED, a podcast about law and politics, on the edge. Law professor Ilan Wurman, with co-hosts Kathryn Johnson and Grace Keating, cover cutting-edge, and edgy, legal and political news, ideas, and developments. 

Information

  • Creator
    Center of the American Experiment
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    11
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 rationally BASED
  • Show Website
    rationally BASED

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