Real Job Talk

Liz Bronson & Kathleen Nelson Troyer
Real Job Talk

Seasoned HR and recruiting consultants Liz and Kat help you navigate your career and get through your work day. Go beyond the employee manual for some real job talk!

  1. Episode 98: The Recruiting Process - Employee Experience Series, Part 1

    14 HR. AGO

    Episode 98: The Recruiting Process - Employee Experience Series, Part 1

    We had an exciting new idea -- with today's episode, we kick off a series of episodes looking at the employee experience from many different angles. Today’s episode is number 1 in the series. We start by talking about the very beginning of the employee experience: the recruiting process. Future episodes will include onboarding, being an employee, career development, and leaving a company. This episode is for EVERYONE AND ANYONE who is involved with the recruiting process -- managers, leaders, candidates, and interviewers. We've talked a lot about the recruiting process from the applicants perspective many times, but we also think looking through the eyes of folks inside the company is super informative, so in this episode, we look at that perspective as well. **What is employee experience? **Employee experience is just that - the experience of working somewhere. We believe this experience starts even before you’ve interacted with a company, with your thoughts on their brand as an employer, but it starts being solidified in the recruiting process with your experience as a candidate. The candidate experience starts with the application. Recruiters/hiring managers, have you checked out your application process lately? Is it up to date? Does it ask for a "Twitter" handle? If so, time to update. We recommend you apply to your jobs at least quarterly to make sure that it’s a smooth, easy, and pain-free process. Our list of advice for people that are hiring: GET BACK TO EVERY CANDIDATE. The least you can do is loop back with candidates who show interest, and especially who have participated in your interview process. Update candidates on the status of the job. Even if it’s a message that your process is taking more time than anticipated, some update is better than no update. Update when the job is closed or if it goes on hold too. If you ask for something in the process (a test, questions, a cover letter), make sure you actually look at it. Don't waste people's time. Feedback can be hard to get, so if you can give non-subjective feedback that can help the candidate, do it. Build an experience where every conversation is different. Don't waste the time of the applicant or the interviewers. Know your candidates and make sure every conversation is a different one that adds value and adds to how you both see each other. (It’s so nice we said it twice) Have a no ghosting policy. When you disappear and never get back to a candiate, you potentially lose business based on the way you treat people. Tell people where you are in the process and let them know what’s coming. It’s great as a candidate to know what’s coming next and how far you are along the journey. And, when you bring in someone later in your overall hiring process, let them know that others are farther along. Keep questions relevant to the job. Do do otherwise is potentially illegal, and non-relevant questions easily cross into topics that could make someone feel uncomfortable. Make sure you leave time for the candidate to ask questions to you, and answer honestly. Don’t blow smoke. Don’t tell someone they’re "perfect for a role," that you "want to work with them," or that can "see them on the team" if you’re not going to give an offer. You can say you like someone, but giving false hope or, even worse, asking a candidate to clear their calendar for onboarding and then turning them down is a bad candidate experience. Respond to thank yous! A “great to meet you too” goes a LONG way. It improves your employer brand and it helps prevent the candidate feel like they sent a useless note off into the void. Be decisive. There is no bench where you keep a candidate on hold. If you like someone, hire them. If you don’t, let them go. Make sure your whole team interviewing candidates is clear all the aspects of what you're doing: their role and part in the process, job description, ideal candidate profile, required skills, etc.

    35 min
  2. NOV 6

    Episode 97 - Difficult Conversations at Work - guest episode with the Truth, Lies & Work podcast

    A special episode: Liz and Kat are guests on the Truth, Lies, & Work Podcast, where they talked about difficult conversations at work. Check out this episode with Liz and Kat on Difficult Conversations at Work, epsiode 137 of the Truth, Lies & Work podcast. Listen to the episode right here or listen to this bonus episode right here in your Real Job Talk feed. Episode notes Welcome to Truth, Lies & Work, the award-winning psychology podcast brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Join hosts Leanne Elliott, chartered psychologist, and Al Elliott, business owner, as they help you simplify the science of work. In today’s episode, we’re tackling one of the most challenging aspects of workplace dynamics - having difficult conversations. We’re joined by two outstanding experts in the world of people and culture, Kathleen Troyer and Liz Bronson, co-hosts of the Real Job Talk podcast. Together, they share practical advice on how to handle conflict, polarizing topics, and tough discussions at work. Meet Our Guests: • Kathleen Troyer is the CEO and Lead Consultant at Jigsaw Solutions Inc., where she specializes in leadership development and business strategy. Known for helping leaders engage in uncomfortable but necessary conversations, Kat shares her insights on creating psychologically safe workplaces. • Liz Bronson, a Global Professional in Human Resources (GPHR), has dedicated her career to fostering inclusive and supportive company cultures. Her experience spans companies like Barclays Global Investors, VMware, and ThriveCart. Key Discussion Points: The Impact of External Events on Workplace Dynamics Kat and Liz discuss how global events like political upheavals, economic instability, and distressing news have forever altered how we interact in the workplace. How to Defuse Tension and Maintain a Positive Culture In today’s polarized world, workplace conflict is inevitable. Our guests explore how leaders can guide difficult conversations, focusing on empathy, transparency, and respect. Bringing Your Whole Self to Work Kat and Liz debate whether this is truly feasible in today's diverse workplaces and discuss the importance of creating inclusive environments where everyone feels they belong, regardless of differing opinions. Aligning Company Values with Employee Behavior Kat and Liz stress the importance of living company values, not just displaying them on a wall. When to Have the Uncomfortable Conversation Our guests provide practical advice on how to approach difficult conversations when tensions rise in the workplace.

    53 min
  3. AUG 6

    Episode 96: All is Good, But I’m Restless - Listener Question

    We have a letter! A listener asks us what they should do if everything is just good. They’re restless: work is good, they make good money, have work/life balance, but they're wondering if this is it. Our listener’s name is “Restless” and we explore how they should approach this mid-career moment. First - everything is relative. The grass can be greener on someone else’s hill, but your grass may be really green to someone else. We tell Restless that they need to explore why they’re feeling this way. What is at the root of their restlessness? Is there something they want to achieve that they haven’t? In the meantime, we told Restless to seek out some new projects, find out what other teams are working on, and see if he could participate or at least listen in. Career mid-life crises are just as common as life mid-life crises. So, what do you do? Assess what’s going well and what you don’t want, and see if you can learn something new or push yourself in a new area to keep yourself moving. We stress that learning and staying on top of trends and technologies is always important and going on a learning mission will help them feel fresh and less stuck. We send Restless on a journey to understand their internal desires as well as an external exploration of what they aren’t doing. Start asking people - internally and externally - what they are working on, and see if you can join in - or at least observe to learn and expand your knowledge. By learning about what others are working on, we can be inspired and think of new things that are exciting. We also tell Restless that sometimes in life we are all in at work, and sometimes we are doing our job and focusing on other things. Restless says they have work/life balance. We tell them to really lean into that and go to the baseball game, or appreciate that family time. Restless’ life sounds pretty awesome: good pay, work/life balance, remote work, and interesting projects. We caution them to be careful when framing their restlessness so that they open a dialogue and not annoy people. It’s a pretty sweet situation and while we love the candor for us, they need to be really aware of their audience and approach the conversation from a place of curiosity vs complaining. We tell Restless to lean into gratitude as an antidote for complacency and to look at work as a part of a whole, rich life.

    12 min
  4. JUN 11

    Episode 95: Red Flags in the Job Search Process

    We’re talking from experience about red flags, especially in the job search process, where your gut fits into decision making and how to listen for those flags. Kat tells her story from 20 years ago about her first HR Leadership role where she joined a company working for a husband and wife team. The offer was lower than her comfort zone with a bonus to get her there. She then needed to clock in, which is unknown in leadership roles. When Kat got home from her first week on the job, she said to her husband, “One week down, 51 to go”, but in reality, she left after 6 months to preserve her mental health and well-being. This decision led to Kat starting her own business which has been thriving for 21 years. Liz’s story is more recent. A recruiter sent an AI-written no-personality job description, and then there was a fast interview process which led to a funky feeling. The offer came with terrible benefits - a big red flag that shows you don’t care about people. The red flags were all true, and while she tried to focus on the positive, it ended up being untenable and her gut got a lot less twisty once she left. One big flag to point out is this: would you take the job if you had a job? If the answer is no, why? If it’s because things don’t feel right, listen to that! Official advice #1: The Job Description: Is it written by AI? Boring? Trying to help draw you in? Include company values? Do you know what the company does, what the job is, is there a career page selling you on the company? Official advice #2: The recruiting process. What’s it like? Do you feel they know you at all? Is there a decision process or does it go on forever? Have you met your boss, a few colleagues? It’s a red flag if you don’t feel like they know what they want and what they’re looking for. Official advice #3: Look at Glassdoor, PunchBowl, Reddit, and other sites that talk about the experience working at the company. Look for threads in the reviews- not just the 1 from an angry employee. Look at the recent feedback on what it’s like there. The score is important, but know that companies try to manipulate their score….pay attention if there are lots of positive reviews with zero substance. Official advice #4: Is the team diverse? Look on Linkedin and see who works there. Is everyone white and under 30 in suits and ties? Do they indicate that they want diverse teams and points of view? Official advice #5: Does the benefits package indicate that they care about their people? What’s covered? How much are they contributing? We’ve never seen a great place to work with terrible benefits. Official advice #6: Do they encourage your questions? Answer directly? Belittle you for asking questions? RED FLAG. If you ever feel like your requests are being blown off, word salad or more, it’s a huge indicator of what the company is like to work at. Official advice #7: Your gut is saying no. If you’re not excited about signing the offer, it’s for a good reason. It’s hard to not listen to your brain and your bank account, but let your gut have a say in the decision. If you do go against your gut, we’ve got some clear advice for you. Don’t announce it on Linkedin right away. Don’t stop interviewing >> if your brain and your bank account win out and you try something new, it’s ok to keep interviewing if you really don’t think it’s a fit. Be artfully honest when people ask you how things are going- lead with the positive, but tell people you’re still open to new opportunities. If it’s not a big fit, look for the good people you haven’t met, the story, the learnings. There are good things that come out of good stints.

    30 min
  5. FEB 20

    Episode 94: Golden Handcuffs- What Do I Do?

    We have a letter! One of our listeners wrote to us with a question. They are stuck with what to do with their golden hancuffs. Their current employer was acquired by a larger company. The company wants them to stay, and has given them a year-long series of bonuses and severance if they stay long enough. But they'd also like to look around to see if there are other opportunities. They don’t know what to do about their bonus package in the job search: can they disclose it? Can they use it as leverage it as part of a job negotiation? It’s a great question, and while we counseled them separately, we share our advice with each of you. What ARE golden handcuffs? They’re a way that a company incentivizes you to stay with them vs leave after a major change. For example, our listener’s company was acquired and they have golden handcuffs that pay them over the next 6 months to stay with the company vs leave for another job. For our listener, they get bonuses every 3 months and then another payment if you stay through the pre-determined transition period. Because our listener is early career, we advised them to stay and get experience with acquisitions and use the bonus package to accumulate a nest egg (assuming they can tolerate it). And we also advised them to not start looking for a new job right away, and instead to take time to make a must-have list, and then start searching 3 months before their last day. Can our listener use their package to get more money? If YOU are applying for jobs, you can’t use a retention program as leverage, but once someone is interested, or if you are being recruited, you may be able to use it. You can say “I’d love to be considered, but I have this retention package and am planning on staying through the end. Can you help keep me whole?” They likely won’t pay it all out, but maybe it will get you a sign-on bonus. Deciding what’s right to do? Look at your must-have list, look at what you want to learn, and as opportunities come your way, make lists of pros and cons guided by your must-have list to balance learning, opportunity, stability, and happiness. Another interesting opportunity may come from the new company, so doing your best post-acquisition and learning about the new company, new ways to do things, and meeting a new network of people is a huge opportunity. Post-acquisition retention is an incredible learning opportunity. You have the opportunity to see how a new company does things and also see new groups and meet new people. Use the opportunity to learn and grow. If you do get approached for a new job, tell them right away that you’re planning on staying through the period of your retention bonus and let them know what it looks like to see if they can help move you earlier. Stress that you’re most interested in learning, growth, and opportunity, and you’re willing to give up money for the right opportunity. If you know you’re talking with a recruiter, write notes and make sure you’re ready for a clear and open conversation. Be confident in who you are, what you’re looking for, and what’s important to you.

    18 min
  6. 12/05/2023

    Episode 93: How to Handle Your Company Card

    Today we’re talking about all things Company-Paid. We're here to help you understand and navigate the world of expenses. Here are the Real Job Talk guidelines for using your company credit card. Guideline 1: Look at your company handbook/rulebook and familiarize yourself with the company’s policies around expenses. There may be limits on hotels, guidelines around flights, and per diems for meals and drinks. If you see friends during time in a new city, that needs to be on your dime - just like when you see friends at home. Your per diem is to cover you because you’re there for work, not for your cocktails with friends. Guideline 2: If it isn’t told to you, ASK! Can you buy yourself a mouse, monitor, or new desk? Ask the recruiter or hiring manager what will be covered by the company. Guideline 3: Convenience is key. You are traveling for WORK, so any bookings you do (hotel, office etc) need to be close to the work you are doing, not to the nearby city you’ve always wanted to visit. If you travel to a city and you want to go sightseeing and learn about it, that's totally fine, but the time you spend as a tourist is on you -- because the company doesn’t need you doing it and it's not part of your job. That said, you can extend your trip with a later flight after your personal travel (the company owes you a round trip ticket, the dates are less important), but the hotels and food during your tourism are on you. Guideline 4: Treat the company’s money like your own. Want an upgrade for extra leg room, but that’s not in company policy? That’s on your dime. Think about saving up your per diem to buy your family dinner on your way home from the airport? The company doesn’t owe your family dinner -- and they could fire you or at least lose trust in you if they find out. Bottom line: it’s not smart to abuse expenses. You could get fired. Don’t be fired for something so avoidable. Guideline 5: If it’s not for work, it’s not expensable. If you’re not sure, ASK. If you choose to work at a coffee shop instead of home one day, it’s not expensable. If you’re having lunch with friends and they say “How’s work?”, that’s not expensable. If you take your team out, it probably IS expensable. And when you can expense something, don’t bust the budget or order the most expensive thing you can. Don’t take advantage. Guideline 6: Use the systems you’re told to use. Follow Finance’s guidelines. Keep receipts. Stay on top of it so that your expenses are up to date. If you pay attention to these guidelines - and to the guidelines of your company - you won't get into trouble with expenses at work.

    21 min
  7. 10/18/2023

    Episode 92: This Was All An Accident with Kat Kibben

    Welcome back to Real Job Talk, Kat Kibben! Kat (pronouns they/them) is the founder of Three Ears Media, a speaker, advocate, and leader in the HR space around inclusivity and job descriptions. We're really pleased to have Kat join us for a second time on the podcast. (Check out their first appearance, Episode 38: Write a Resume that Gets Past the Screeners with Katrina Kibben) Every week, Kat writes a letter with their thoughts from that week. They started writing their letters as a marketing exercise, but found the letters got more personal and they eventually evolved to being about... life. Those letters are now a collection of stories titled This Was All An Accident focusing on their year of living in a van and traveling around the United States. According to Kat, the first step of accepting yourself is learning what it feels like to be happy. Kat started writing a list of what they were doing when they felt happy and then read the list every day and whenever they were feeling low. We unpack the word “should” and redefining boundaries in a way that works for us. Can a CEO live in a van and work 4 days a week? How did Kat redefine their norms to adjust to van life? Scheduling in van life has to be flexible, and not only did Kat have to adjust their idea of what work looked like, but their team had to adjust and refine their set up. Kat inspired Kat and John to take their own van trip. We discuss the planning of a van trip and how it’s a metaphor for life in that you can plan and plan, but you often run into and need things you don’t plan for. Both Kats learned that lesson in their van trips. Our lessons? Bring duct tape and an ax! We dive into vulnerability. Kat felt most vulnerable when they learned that their estranged father was reading their book. They wrote it for teenagers and people who could use the lessons they’ve learned in their life. What they found was that it felt most vulnerable when they knew people who they know in their personal life were reading it. They’re more used to people they work with knowing more about them from their work. Kat talks in their letters about hard things, but has very clear boundaries. Their rule is to not write about anything they aren’t certain about in their life. We talk more about boundaries and how they determine what to share and how to handle people who ask questions they aren’t ready to answer. Lastly we talked about staying realistically positive without being toxic. Kat’s answer is to focus on now vs the huge picture so that life isn’t overwhelming. One of Kat’s motivations is around helping kids, specifically queer and trans kids, feel comfortable and safe in their bodies. They mentor adults about being queer in the workplace and tell us some stories about how they help people live authentically. Get Kat's book, This Was All An Accident: Letters and Life Lessons on Amazon Kat's blog and personal site: katrinakibben.com Linkedin: katrinakibben Twitter/X: @KatrinaKibben Facebook: katrina.kibben Instagram: @katrinakibben

    40 min
  8. 08/28/2023

    Episode 91: Networking with a Purpose with Robert Gilbreath

    Welcome to Real Job Talk Robert Gilbreath! Robert talks to us about his career journey as a solopreneur, entrepreneur, and an employee and how he treats each role like he’s the owner of the company. Robert Gilbreath is an experienced solopreneur and entrepreneur, and joins the show to share his insights on work mindset, ownership of roles, networking, and evaluating side gigs. He has a diverse background that spans SaaS, ecommerce, partnerships, marketplaces, and product, with experience on both sides of the table across all those areas. Tune in as he delves into the importance of networking, being positive, and helping others. Robert shares his approach to evaluating new opportunities and emphasises finding purpose in what he does. We also touc “Act as if….” every company you work at is your own. Is a mantra (one of many) Robert Gilbreath brings into each role he has. It helps to guide him in making each organization better in some way from before he was there. Marketing is an interesting discipline because people throughout the company will have opinions on the work you are doing. The best marketers can switch industries- the academic side and the creative side and it’s about understanding your audience and how to connect with them. Success is often tied to taking ownership - of your role, your career, and your journey. That means saying “yes” in early career, trying new things, and owning both success and learning. We talked with Robert about side gigs and his approach to networking as a way to make sure he always has something interesting going on. Robert’s goal is to know everyone in Austin doing ecommerce so that he is always touching what’s happening in his space. Connect with Robert Gibreath Twitter/X: @robertgatx Website: robertgilbreath.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertgilbreath/

    33 min
5
out of 5
24 Ratings

About

Seasoned HR and recruiting consultants Liz and Kat help you navigate your career and get through your work day. Go beyond the employee manual for some real job talk!

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