Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast Amri B. Johnson

In this episode of the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast, host Amri Johnson interviews Raquel Ark, an expert on the art and science of listening. They discuss the importance of listening for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), and how it can be practiced and improved upon both personally and professionally. Raquel shares insights into her background, growing up between cultures, and how it shaped her understanding of different perspectives and listening. She highlights the experiences that led her to focus on listening, including her work in corporate communications and facilitation. The conversation delves into practical aspects of listening, such as creating 'listening playgrounds,' understanding listening as episodic, and the interdependence of speakers and listeners. Raquel emphasizes the role of listening in high-stakes situations, the need for humility, and the impact of listening on building trust and effective communication. The episode concludes with recommendations for structuring meetings to facilitate better listening and the transformative potential of listening for DEI initiatives.
 
Timestamps
00:22 Raquel Ark: A Listening Expert
03:15 Raquel's Personal and Professional Journey
07:13 The Art and Science of Listening
18:34 Listening Beyond Words: Email as a Listening Space
23:17 Exploring Listening Playgrounds
26:39 The Power of Experiential Learning in Listening
27:42 The Science Behind Effective Listening
28:25 Interdependence in Communication
29:07 Practical Tips for Enhancing Listening Skills
29:53 Understanding Listening as an Episodic Process
37:17 The Role of Listening in High-Stakes Situations
45:23 Practicing Listening for Better Communication
45:45 Structuring Meetings for Effective Listening
48:02 Conclusion: The Importance of Listening in DEI
 
About the Guest
Raquel Ark, MA, CPC, is a podcast host, speaker, mentor, coach and trainer. She has over 25 years of experience in multinational corporations, start-ups, and academia. She is the Founder of listening ALCHEMY, a communication training and coaching organisation including evidence-based listening programs. She is the podcast host of the "listening SUPERPOWER" podcast focused on listening in teams and organisations beyond what we typically consider. She co-authored a best-selling book, "Redefining The Rules” and spoke on the TedX stage. She is the President of the International Listening Association and a university instructor at Fresenius University of Applied Sciences in Germany.
You can connect with Raquel at:
Email: raquel@raquelark.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-ark-b2067613/
Website: https://listeningalchemy.com/
 
About the Host
As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.
His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.
His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.
Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.
 
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Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!
Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP
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In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri expresses concerns over the perceived threats to DEI, outlining that the resistance stems from a misunderstanding of what DEI truly signifies, beyond just representation and affirmative action. He explores the concept of 'Iatrogenic effects'—a medical term, indicating a treatment that causes more harm than good. Amri draws parallels between such unintended negative outcomes in healthcare and similar phenomena observed in DEI implementations, where initiatives sometimes inadvertently foster dependency, exclusivity, or counter-productive tensions. Through personal anecdotes and references to scholarly works, Amri makes the case for a reevaluation of DEI strategies, urging a shift towards inclusivity, agency, and a methodical questioning of DEI practices to ensure they foster genuine progress rather than unintended setbacks. Lastly, he encourages DEI practitioners and supporters to see current criticisms not as an attack but as an opportunity to refine and advance their approaches to truly make organizational and societal change.
 
Timestamps:
00:15 Understanding DEI and Its Opportunities
00:45 The Current State of DEI
01:25 Defining DEI and Its Importance
02:28 The Challenges and Misconceptions of DEI
06:03 The Concept of Iatrogenesis in DEI
11:18 The Impact of Iatrogenesis in DEI
14:18 The Role of Exclusivity in DEI
31:02 The Importance of Agency in DEI
34:41 The Role of Intentional Broadening in DEI
38:50 The Future of DEI
40:25 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
 
About the Host
As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.
His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.
His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.
Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.
 
Your support means a lot!
Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!
Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP
Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/
Connect with Amri on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amrijohnson/
Let's discuss where your inclusion policies are effective and how to overcome challenges by creating an Inclusion System. > https://inclusionwins.com/contact

In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri interviews Laura Smith, a celebrated organizational researcher and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) strategist. Laura shares her journey from Detroit to Europe, her encounters with distinct cultures, and the notion of work in different countries. She highlights the significance of DEI in startup and scale-up companies, discussing a data-driven approach to understanding employee safety, company culture, and readiness to respond.
In this episode, Laura also talks about her experiences navigating DEI in various cultural contexts, particularly in the Nordic startup scene. They discuss the importance of intentionality in DEI work and the need for understanding the people and their contexts in the industries we serve. Laura shares her thoughts on the concept of 'becoming black', the meaning of work in different cultural contexts, and the important role of data in DEI work. She emphasizes the need to look beyond who's in the room, to ensuring conditions are created for them to thrive wherever they might be.
Timestamps
01:24 Getting to Know Laura Smith
04:25 Laura's Journey and Background
07:24 The Importance of Inclusion in Growth
09:55 The Work of ValiDEI
13:26 Understanding the Meaning of Work
17:29 Laura's Experience of Blackness
23:27 Transitioning to the World of Startups
24:07 The Importance of Intentionality in Startups
24:59 The Challenge of Inclusion in Startups
25:54 The Role of Diversity in Global Products
27:57 The Reality of Failure and Learning Opportunities
29:43 The Importance of Building Bridges in DEI
30:46 The Role of Investors in DEI
31:20 The Importance of Understanding People in DEI
33:16 The Current State of DEI in the Nordics
36:48 The Use of Data in DEI
41:57 The Personal Impact of Living Abroad
 
About the Guest
Laura Smith is an experienced organizational researcher, communications director, and strategist who helps companies discover impactful ways of becoming more inclusive, equitable, and empowering.
As founder of VALIDEI, an organizational research agency, she coordinates cross-functional research teams across Europe to deliver audits, experiments, and insights to support socially responsible businesses.
As a people-minded and data-informed professional, Laura develops organization-specific metrics, OKRs, and best practices for inclusive organizational development, communications, recruitment, and employer branding for growth companies.
She frequently collaborates with DEI and ESG agencies across the Nordics, subcontracting as a researcher or analyst. Learn more about her work by visiting https://www.validei.com/
About the Host
As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.
His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.
His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.
Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.
 
Your support means a lot!
Like this episode? We'd greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to write a review, even if it's just one sentence!
Grab a copy of Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable: https://amzn.to/45AYFFP
Sign up for the Reconstructing Inclusion newsletter on Substack: https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/
Let's discuss

In this episode of the 'Reconstructing Inclusion' podcast, host, Amri B. Johnson, engages in an enlightening conversation with his mother, Dr. Harriett D. Johnson, bringing out profound narratives about her life, family history, experiences, and take on DEI, and professional journey as an educator. They touched on the impact of history on current diversity and inclusion practices, based on Dr. Johnson's experiences growing up.
She shares insights from her long career in the education sector, emphasizing the importance of perspective, integrity, and resilience. Lastly, Dr. Harriett also reflects on her late husband's business acumen and discusses the importance of supporting children according to their heart's desires and potential.
 
Key highlights
The power of instilling empowerment, self-determination, and respect for every individual's unique identity
Dr. Harriett’s insights on DEI, sharing her wealth of experience in various educational settings
The importance of following one's heart and making decisions rooted in love, empathy, and understanding
 
About the Guest
Dr. Harriett D. Johnson is a retired educator, school administrator, and professor of education. She received her Ph.D. in early childhood education from Kansas State University and her career destinations included speech pathologist, preschool founder, high-school principal, professor, and currently entrepreneur/owner of a funeral home. 
Dr. Harriett was born in Kansas City, KS, and has resided in Topeka, KS for the past 60 years.
 
About the Host
As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion. 
His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.
His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose-aligned.
Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.
Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Get FREE 60-DAY ACCESS to Premium Content by signing up here.

In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri chats with Dr. Starling David Hunter III, who, having lived outside the U.S. for 18 years, recognizes the importance of cultural nuances in shaping organizational behavior theories. He shared valuable insights into his journey from engineering to organizational behavior, emphasizing the importance of bridging theory and practice.
The conversation delves into the dynamics of teaching in diverse cultural contexts, from the Middle East to Europe, and how adapting teaching methods has unveiled the cultural underpinnings of organizational theories. They explored the challenges of making Organizational Network Analysis (ONA) a necessary component in people analytics and organizational development.
Dr. Hunter III emphasizes the significance of applying network analysis to organizational behavior, leadership, diversity, equity, and inclusion, offering a macro view that complements traditional approaches and its potential to examine issues like belongingness and DEI through the lens of actual connections within organizations.
 
Key highlights
Teaching Adaptations in Cultural Variation
Unveiling Cultural Assumptions
Social Capital: a key aspect in organizational dynamics
Driving ONA Adoption in Organizations
The Role of ONA in DEI Conversations
 
About the Guest
Dr. Starling David Hunter III received his MBA (in Human Resource Management) and Ph.D. (in Organization Theory) from Duke University's Fuqua School of Business. He has been a faculty member at MIT's Sloan School of Management and Carnegie Mellon's Tepper School of Business. His research, teaching, and consulting all focus on the application of social network analysis to questions of organization design and performance.
At present, Starling is a co-founder of Organalytic, a Stockholm-based advisory and consultancy specializing in organizational network analysis. 
Learn more about his work by checking out Organalytic: https://organalytic.se/
 
About the Host
As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.
His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.
His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose aligned.
Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.
Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!

In this episode of the ‘Reconstructing Inclusion’ podcast, Amri provides a deep dive into the complexities of DEI outcomes and calls for a broader, more inclusive approach that engages all individuals in fostering change. He encourages everyone to contemplate how to make DEI accessible, actionable, and sustainable for everyone, irrespective of their role or expertise. Amri also talks about Inclusion Wins' “Theory of Change”, which focuses on 'Inclusion Systems' design, cultural intelligence (CQ), and social capital as key components of fostering DEI outcomes. The episode raises questions about creating conditions that foster risk-taking and skill development and, particularly, challenges DEI practitioners to reflect on their "skin in the game."
Key highlights
DEI Outcomes as Natural Progressions
Significance of Equity and Equal Representation for Historically Marginalized Groups
Creating Conditions for Thriving
The Significance of "Skin in the Game"
“DEI Work” Challenges
About the Host
As CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins, Amri B. Johnson and a virtual collective of partners converge organizational purpose to create global impact with a lens of inclusion.
His theory of change is focused on building ‘Inclusion Systems.’ Inclusion systems provide direction and momentum in the complexity of organizations that allow them to be antifragile—leaning into and engaging with resistance, stressors, disruptions, and disequilibrium and being stronger as a result of such engagement.
His book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable outlines how organizations can create inclusion-normative cultures and build approaches to DEI that are designed for and with everyone, unambiguously prioritized, and purpose aligned.
Born in Topeka, Kansas (USA), Amri has worked and lived in the U.S., Brazil, and currently lives in Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Martina and their three kids.
Reconstructing Inclusion is also on Substack. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!