REFS NEED LOVE TOO

David Gerson
  • 4.8 (51)
  • SOCCER
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside. 

  1. 5D AGO

    What Elite FIFA Officials Can Teach Grassroots Referees with Jan Aravirtra, Referee Academy

    Send us Fan Mail The fastest way to level up as a soccer referee is not learning one more obscure law, it is learning how to handle people when the match te. I’m joined by Jan Aravitra, a former FIFA international referee from Finland with nearly two decades at the top level, including UEFA competitions and World Cup qualifiers. We get into the behind-the-scenes reality of working with different crews, different cultures, and different communication styles, especially from the perspective of an elite assistant referee. We talk about focus in hostile environments, and how you can “block out the noise” without ignoring the emotional temperature of the benches and spectators. Jan explains why players care so much about being treated fairly, how repeated moments can snowball into dissent, and what experienced officials do to keep the game balanced and under control. We also dig into practical man management: when to build rapport, when to stay composed, why yelling back never works, and how the best referees set clear borders without turning the match into a debate. Then we shift into referee education and development. Jan shares why he built the Referee Academy, how video feedback and live clip discussions accelerate learning for grassroots referees, and why community is a key factor in referee retention and mental health. If you’re a new ref trying to survive your first seasons or a veteran trying to mentor others, you’ll take away specific habits you can use on your very next match. If this helps you, subscribe for more conversations like this, share it with a referee who needs support, and leave a review so more officials can find the show. Support the show

    48 min

  2. MAR 13

    Premier League Referee Scott Ledger on Longevity, Learning and Love of the Game

    Send us Fan Mail A soldier-turned-official sets a six-year goal to reach the Premier League—and makes it! Then he does an even rarer thing: he stays for over 15 years! We sit down with Scott Ledger, a 500+ appearance Premier League Assistant Referee and FA Cup Final appointee, to unpack the craft behind elite officiating—how preparation, humility, and sharp eyes under pressure create credibility when tens of thousands are judging every move. Scott takes us inside the modern toolkit: pre-match data packs that map set-piece patterns and passing lanes, film study to anticipate offside traps and screens, and the small human edge of knowing players’ first names to defuse tension. He breaks down why “looking switched on” matters as much as getting the call right, especially for assistant referees who spend long stretches semi-active but must sell a complex decision in a heartbeat. We also explore the mental game of VAR: delayed flags, instant feedback, and the rubber-band reset that helps him let go of the last check and lock in for the next one. From fitness to field craft, Scott explains the lateral speed work, GPS targets, and position resets that keep him aligned with lightning-fast wingers. He shares the culture shock of moving from Sunday League to the Premier League’s event-level logistics, plus a fan encounter that turned into a mini laws seminar. And he pitches a smart IFAB tweak to curb time-wasting on goalkeeper “injuries” by forcing a teammate to leave—small changes that could protect game flow without gimmicks from goalkeepers. It’s a candid, practical masterclass for referees, coaches, and football obsessives who want to see the game with clearer eyes. If you value preparation, composure, and the pursuit of marginal gains, this conversation will sharpen how you watch—and how you work. If you've enjoyed it, please follow the show, share with a ref friend, and leave a quick review to help more people find us. Support the show

    49 min

  3. FEB 25

    Respect The Call, Change The Game with Kari Seitz, VP of Referees for US Soccer

    Send us Fan Mail Abusive sidelines don’t fix bad calls—and they’re driving referees out of the game. We sat down with U.S. Soccer’s Vice President of Referees, Kari Seitz, to break down how “Respect the Call” and Policy 531-9 are changing that story with clear standards, real accountability, and education designed for today’s crews. We start with the foundation: knowing the difference between a raw emotional reaction and dissent. That clarity matters because early, consistent action keeps matches from spiraling. Kari explains the new video series that teaches practical skills most officials never learn in class—how to read tone and proximity, how to set boundaries, and even how to show a card with presence so your message lands the first time. You’ll hear why empowering young and new referees to act decisively is the single best way to prevent escalation and protect the flow of the game. From there, we zoom out to the system. Kari walks us through centralized reporting for abuse, fair and age-appropriate sanctions, and league adoption that extends to parents on the touchline. We also explore the U.S. Refereeing Way, a national push to unify instruction and mechanics so referees in California and Georgia get the same guidance on AR positioning, dissent management, and match control. Think modern training modules, shareable vertical videos, and a future “referee passport” to track experience, education, and progression—less guesswork, more support. If you’ve ever wondered how to stop the churn of officials, this conversation shows the roadmap: consistent definitions, confident enforcement, and a culture that treats referees as essential to soccer. Watch the new Respect the Call videos, share them with your club, and put the standards into practice. We need your help! Support the show

    44 min

  4. FEB 15

    Inside Video Review with Greg Barkey, Head of VAR for PRO

    Send us Fan Mail Ever wonder what “clear and obvious” actually means when the stakes are high and the clock is running? We bring you a rare, candid look inside MLS video review with Greg Barkey, the head of VAR at PRO. Greg shares how the system was built in the United States—from early scrimmages with eight cameras at a local park to the first monitor review at Red Bull Arena—and why the guiding principle remains simple: to correct clear and obvious errors without re-refereeing the match. We dig into the humanity officiating: game management over pure decision making, context over freeze frames, and game management considerations on red cards. Greg explains the concise language that keeps the booth calm and fast—kick point, point of contact, APP, and the all-important “check complete”—and why MLS sends referees to the monitor even on offside. You’ll hear why PRO avoids drawn lines, how their crews judge offside with geometry and field cues, and how that choice protects the flow and preserves goals. We also talk pressure in the booth, the shift to a centralized “Varlington” hub in Texas, and the weekly clip sessions that calibrate judgment across hundreds of games. If you’ve ever argued about soft penalties, complained about slow-mo making fouls look worse, or wondered why one hold is called and another isn’t, this conversation brings clarity. Greg even floats a provocative idea for changing offside around advantage and impact rather than millimeters—aiming for simpler calls and more goals. Along the way, we trade stories about respect for referees, the small thanks that keep people in the game, and the balance between technology and trust. Enjoy the deep dive, share it with a soccer friend who lives in the comments, and help us grow by subscribing and leaving a quick review. What would you change about VAR or offside tomorrow? Tell us. Support the show

    1h 3m

  5. FEB 10

    Inside Sunday League with Eric Edge from "Behind The Whistle"

    Send us Fan Mail Ever wonder what a referee actually says to defuse tenssions—or how it feels to make a split-second call with no assistants and 22 players demanding an answer? We sit down with Eric Edge, the former semi-pro goalkeeper behind the viral channel Behind The Whistle, to unpack the real craft of Sunday League officiating: honesty that cools tempers, foul selection that protects the game, and transparency that turns critics into collaborators. Eric explains why he films every match and posts full breakdowns, not as a highlight reel but as a learning lab. We explore safe refereeing—giving the decision football expects in high-risk areas—without smothering the flow, and how early, consistent thresholds prevent escalation. From the sin bin’s deterrent power to the difference between a quick outburst and persistent dissent, Eric shows how calm language, private chats, and a little humor can steer volatile adult matches back on course. We go inside the unique chaos of club linesmen: when they elevate credibility by flagging against their own team, and when poor positioning or bias forces tough overruls. We talk fitness demands that rival box-to-box midfielders, the mental bandwidth needed to keep angles and advantage straight, and the way tech—video, body cams, and, where allowed, comms—can protect officials and teach the next generation the “gold” of game management dialogue. Elite support, from former UEFA and World Cup officials, highlights a broader shift toward accountability and empathy. If you’re a player on the fence about refereeing, Eric makes a compelling case: you’ll rediscover the buzz, build community, and use your feel for contact to excel with the whistle. We also share practical resources—from gear that saves your feet to smarter assigning tools—that make long Saturdays workable and safer. Subscribe, share this story with a teammate who argues every call, and leave a review with your biggest officiating takeaway—what part of the referee’s job do you see differently now? Support the show

    1h 2m

  6. JAN 26

    Authority Without Anger: The Quiet Power Of A Calm Referee With Alex Perez

    Send us Fan Mail This week, we have a true full-circle moment on the show. After listening to our recent episode with Kevin Klinger on referee mindset, Regional Referee Alex Perez sent in an incredible email about how he immediately applied those lessons during a grueling college showcase weekend. We were so moved by his story—and how he turned a potential on-field disaster into a success—that we immediately invited him on the pod to share his experience firsthand. Based in West Virginia, Alex is a USSF Regional Referee and National Candidate who officiates in major collegiate pools like the ACC and Big 12, as well as USL2 matches. Beyond the whistle, he is a dedicated mentor and assigner committed to building the next generation of officials. Alex views the pitch as a "high-speed leadership lab," balancing technical mastery with the emotional intelligence required to manage the game's biggest personalities. In this episode, Alex takes us inside the "8 PM Wall"—that specific moment of physical and mental exhaustion during a tournament when patience wears thin. He opens up about a specific U19 match where fatigue triggered a snarky response to a player, and how he used a specific "breathe and reset" technique to regain control. We discuss the importance of body language, how to make allies on the pitch, and how he turned a hostile environment into a game where players were swapping jerseys with him at the final whistle. We also dive into the "suitcase life" of a traveling official (including Alex’s intense "Rule of 3" packing strategy) and share one of the funniest heckler stories involving a mustache that you will ever hear. Plus, we have special offers from our sponsors, Refersports and Umpiro, to help you upgrade your assigning software and your footwear. You are going to love the honesty, humility, and energy Alex brings to the show! Support the show

    52 min

  7. JAN 13

    The Mental Game: Building Better Referees with Kevin Klinger

    Send us Fan Mail Pressure doesn’t just come from the scoreboard—it lives in your head and your chest when the crowd roars and a coach questions your integrity. We sit down with Kevin Klinger, Director of Referee Education and Development at U.S. Officials and founder of Officials Mental Edge, to break down the mental skills that separate solid refs from truly elite officials. Kevin brings a rare dual lens as a longtime pro referee and licensed counselor, translating sports psychology into practical, on‑field tools. We unpack how a real development ecosystem goes far beyond assignments: structured curricula, on‑site sessions, online learning, and high‑level mentorship that builds focus, confidence, and resilience over time. Kevin maps the moments that derail referees—performance attacks like biased or blind, identity jabs, background slights, and disrespectful behaviors—and explains why naming triggers is the first step to control. From there, he lays out a repeatable reset: acknowledge you’re triggered, center with deliberate breath and strong posture, address the conflict with clarity, then consciously transition before the next decision. It’s a trainable protocol that stops rumination, reduces compounding errors, and keeps your head in the game. We also dive into retention and why so many officials leave between years one and two. The fix isn’t just more laws‑of‑the‑game lectures; it’s teaching emotional regulation, mistake recovery, and communication early. Kevin shares elite habits you can use today: ask your crew before kickoff to find one improvement for you, journal after matches, review targeted clips to prime decision‑making, and use visualization to rehearse tough moments. Along the way, you’ll hear candid stories, gear hacks for focus, and quick takes on captain interactions and pregame routines. If you’re serious about refereeing—whether you’re working grassroots or aiming for the pro pathway—these mental skills are your edge. Listen, take notes, and try one reset routine in your next match. If this episode helps, follow the show, share it with your crew, and leave a review so more referees can build their mental game with us. Support the show

    54 min

  8. JAN 1

    From Grief To Growth: A Referee’s Year Of Loss, Reinvention, And Impact

    Send us Fan Mail A year can include joy and pain without destroying you. In 2025, I said goodbye to my dad—the person I called on every big news story, new tech breakthrough, or small family win—and then rebuilt my life in a way he’d love to hear about. That mix of grief and momentum shaped everything: how I left about work, how I re-built my career, and how I chose where to invest my energy. The moment the fun drained out of a private equity‑owned, corporate job and the relief that came with choosing a nine‑person company where simple, focused execution mattered more than politics. Leads spiked, deals closed, and I found my stride again. With the commute gone, Refs Need Love Too took off: more than 2,000 orders shipped, new grip socks and made‑in‑USA buzzer flags, custom coins and badges for associations, and a robust global supply chain. On the creator side, TikTok and Facebook revenue jumped alongside brand partnerships, and creator events in Atlanta and LA cemented the feeling that I belong in that room—even as one of the oldest creators there. The mission sharpened with consulting work for US Soccer, where I helped launch the national referee abuse policy with videos, social assets, and a clear message that reached millions. That momentum led to a full‑time role with SoCal Soccer, building referee development and a learning platform that bridges the macro and micro: content for a global community and hands‑on training for refs running U8 fields every weekend. On the whistle, I earned high school playoff assignments, State Cup finals, and a U.S. women’s youth national team AR slot, then headed to MLS Nextfest to learn from FIFA and CONCACAF referee coaches about the living nature of the game, the spirit of the laws, and the art of reading play. Family milestones kept me grounded, and to honor my dad’s kindness, I'm launching the Pops Scholarship Fund: annual $1,000 and $500 awards for young referees pursuing education. It’s a way to keep his name moving forward while investing in the next voices with a whistle. If you’re building a life you’d be proud to tell someone you miss, you’ll find a lot to hold onto here—practical playbooks, hard‑won lessons, and a strong heartbeat for the referee community. Listen, share with a friend who needs momentum, and leave a review to help more refs find us. Support the show

    21 min
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4.8
out of 5
51 Ratings

About

An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside. 

Information

  • Creator
    David Gerson
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    102
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 REFS NEED LOVE TOO
  • Show Website
    REFS NEED LOVE TOO

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