Shaken Not Burned

Felicia Jackson and Giulia Bottaro

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Shaken Not Burned is the podcast that helps you make sense of sustainability. We unpack the big debates shaping climate, business, food, and society: debunking myths, clarifying trade-offs, and sharing ideas you can actually use to think, decide, and act in a changing world.

1d ago

What makes a city work, with Bentley Systems

Modern cities appear to function effortlessly. We switch on the lights, turn on the tap, catch a train, connect to the internet or walk into a hospital without giving much thought to the systems that make it all possible. Beneath that apparent simplicity sits a network of interconnected infrastructure that keeps everyday life moving. In this episode of Shaken Not Burned, Felicia speaks to Rodrigo Fernandes, global sustainability director at infrastructure engineering software firm Bentley Systems, about why understanding those hidden connections is becoming increasingly important as cities face climate change, ageing infrastructure and growing demands on energy and public services. From transport networks and energy systems to water, buildings and public infrastructure, cities rely on thousands of interconnected assets that have to work together every day. Yet these systems are often planned, managed and invested in separately, making it difficult to understand how decisions made in one part of the system can have consequences across many others Their conversation explores how digital twins and better information can help planners, engineers and decision-makers understand interdependencies, explore different scenarios and make better long-term decisions. Along the way, Rodrigo explains why figuring out how infrastructure systems interact is becoming increasingly important for building cities that are more resilient, sustainable and adaptable over time. In this episode: Why cities are systems, not just placesHow infrastructure decisions shape cities for decadesWhat digital twins really are — and why they matterWhy resilience depends on understanding interconnectionsHow better information can lead to better decisionsThis is a conversation about far more than infrastructure. It's about how cities actually function, why changing them is so difficult, and why understanding the hidden systems around us may be one of the most important foundations for building more resilient communities. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram – and why not spread the word with your friends and colleagues?

42 min
Jun 18

Fashion, efficiency and the problem of too much

Welcome to the final episode in our arc on the fashion industry, where we ask an uncomfortable question: are we trying to make fashion more sustainable, or are we mostly trying to manage the side effects of a system that produces more clothing than the world actually needs? Over the past few weeks we've explored the industry from several different angles. We interviewed Kristina Elinder Liljas at the Apparel Impact Institute about climate risk and why sustainability is increasingly becoming a competitiveness issue. We sat down with Áine Clarke at the Business and Human Rights Centre to discuss to discuss labour and human rights and the social realities embedded within global supply chains. We also spoke to two industry specialists, discussing the potential for fashion circularity with Niccolò Cipriani from Rifò and the world of deadstock and recommerce with Kanchan Bharwani from Empire Apparel. At first glance, there is no obvious reason why those conversations should belong together except that they’re all aspects of the fashion industry. The further we got into the series though, the more we realised that sustainable fashion is not really a story about clothes. It's a story about how an industrial system optimised for speed, volume and cost interacts with water, energy, labour, materials and waste. Once you see that, many of the industry's sustainability challenges stop looking like isolated problems and start looking like the consequences of the system doing exactly what it was designed to do. The choice is not between cheap clothing and expensive clothing. The real question is which costs are currently included in the price and which costs are not. A garment can be inexpensive because the system producing it has become genuinely more efficient, but it can also be inexpensive because part of the cost has been transferred elsewhere — to workers, communities, ecosystems and future generations. Fashion sustainability is often presented as a question of products but our conversations suggest it may be a question of systems and processes. And if that is true, building a more sustainable fashion industry may require far more than making better clothes. It may require asking whether many of the industry's environmental and social challenges are not accidental side effects, but the consequences of a system that has become exceptionally good at delivering exactly what it was designed to deliver. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram – and why not spread the word with your friends and colleagues?

47 min
Jun 11

The realities of circular fashion with Rifò, Empire Apparel

Fashion is often described as one of the world's most polluting industries. The scale can be difficult to grasp as it feels so personal, but every year, billions of garments are produced, sold, worn briefly and discarded, with consequences that reach far beyond our wardrobes. The industry is worth around $2.4 trillion and is estimated to account for up to 8% of global carbon emissions. It consumes around 15 trillion litres of water each year and is responsible for roughly 11% of plastic waste. Yet many of these impacts are not accidental by-products of the system. They are linked to the way the industry is organised, from production planning and purchasing practices to inventory management and sales. Changing that system is not straightforward. But across the industry, some businesses are trying to reduce waste by keeping materials, products and resources in use for longer This week’s episode, the third one in the fashion arc, is a little different than usual: We've brought together two conversations that explore what "reduce, reuse and recycle" actually looks like in practice. Firstly, Giulia spoke to Niccolò Cipriani, founder and CEO of the Italian circular fashion company Rifò, about what it means to set up a sustainable fashion company. They discuss the realities of building a business around recycled materials, the challenges of fibre recycling, and why suppliers initially viewed discarded textiles as low-value inputs rather than useful resources. Giulia then sat down with Kenchen Arjandas Bharwani, fashion consultant at Empire Apparel, who walked us through the ins and outs of the fashion supply chain – including how perfectly good garments can be discarded for very minor reasons, how deadstock accumulates, and how the off-price market helps find a home for products that might otherwise go to waste. Together, these interviews provide a window into a part of the sustainability conversation that often receives less attention. Instead of talking about 'sustainable fashion', much of the discussion focuses on what happens before a garment reaches a shop, and what happens to it when it doesn't sell. That raises a larger question. If waste is being created at multiple points throughout the system, can fashion become more sustainable simply through better consumer choices, or does it require changes to the way the industry itself operates? Because while individual choices aren’t irrelevant, some of the most important decisions in fashion are being made long before we ever see a price tag. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram – and why not spread the word with your friends and colleagues?

42 min
Jun 4

Fashion’s fragile supply chains with the Business and Human Rights Centre

The clothes you're wearing have travelled a remarkable distance before reaching your wardrobe. A typical garment may spend months moving through a global network of farms, mills, factories, suppliers, logistics providers and retailers. Raw materials are sourced in one country, processed in another, assembled somewhere else and shipped across continents before arriving in stores. What begins as simple clothing design often passes through dozens of hands before it reaches the customer. Fashion is a $1.7 trillion industry built on supply chains designed for speed, flexibility and low costs. Those same qualities have helped drive growth and keep prices down, but they can also create vulnerabilities when conditions change. As trade tensions, tariffs, climate impacts and geopolitical uncertainty increase, supply chains that appear highly efficient can become increasingly exposed to disruption. Environmental impacts often dominate sustainability discussions, but many of the industry's biggest challenges are social: poor working conditions, labour rights abuses, weak worker protections and the lack of meaningful oversight across complex supplier networks. When pressure enters the system, those risks are often borne by the workers with the least power to influence the outcome. In this week’s episode, Giulia Bottaro discusses what this means for fashion’s future with Áine Clarke, head labour rights in supply chains & investor strategy at the Business and Human Rights Centre. Their conversation explores why modern fashion supply chains have become increasingly vulnerable, how business models built around speed and flexibility can amplify risk during periods of disruption, and why workers often bear the greatest costs when commercial pressures move through the supply chain. The discussion also challenges the common assumption that transparency alone is enough. Knowing where risks exist is only the first step: without changes to purchasing practices, stronger worker protections and meaningful accountability, transparency risks becoming little more than a reporting exercise. As sustainability increasingly becomes a conversation about resilience, this episode asks a fundamental question: who ultimately bears the cost when fashion's supply chains come under pressure? If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram – and why not spread the word with your friends and colleagues?

34 min
May 28

When climate risk hits fashion’s bottom line with Apparel Impact Institute

For years, sustainability in fashion has often been discussed almost as a parallel conversation to the business itself. Some brands publish reports, set targets and talk about responsibility, while others turn their sustainability credentials into a marketing tool. Yet, at the corporate level, many of the real decisions are still being driven by the old metrics of margins, supply chains and growth – but that's beginning to change. Behind the scenes, there is a vast global industrial system increasingly exposed to climate volatility, energy prices, material shortages and carbon regulation. And its stakeholders have realised that sustainability is crucial to competitiveness: climate change can affect energy prices, raw materials and supply stability. In this episode of Shaken Not Burned, Felicia speaks to Kristina Elinder Liljas, senior director for sustainable finance and engagement at the Apparel Impact Institute (AII), about how climate volatility is set to upend many companies' forward strategies within the next five years. From supply chain disruption and rising sourcing costs to carbon pricing and energy volatility, they explore why sustainability is shifting from a reporting exercise or a worthy side conversation to a core business issue. In its Cost of Inaction report, the AII looks at the literal price tag of climate risk in fashion. The findings are striking, and the message is clear: inaction may just be the most expensive strategy on the board. For an industry built on speed, scale, and razor-thin margins, sustainability is a matter of corporate survival. This is week one of our four-part fashion arc. Over the next month, we are tearing down the curtain on global supply chains to see how this industry impacts people, the planet, and the bottom line. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram – and why not spread the word with your friends and colleagues?

47 min
May 21

The AI conversation we should be having

AI is no longer just a technology issue, it’s starting to reshape how whole systems operate. Yet we’re not paying enough attention to that yet: most of the focus on AI is on what it can do, with individuals and organisations alike rushing to implement this new technology. But AI capability is advancing extremely quickly, while the systems around it — governance and regulation, infrastructure, organisational learning, labour markets, productivity models and even public understanding — are struggling to adapt at the same pace. And all of this is unfolding inside a world already dealing with climate disruption, geopolitical instability, infrastructure stress, declining institutional trust and widening inequality. In this week’s episode, the final in our AI arc, we explore what happens when AI becomes embedded inside the systems that underpin everyday economic and social life. Co-hosts Felicia Jackson and Giulia Bottaro discuss the implications for infrastructure, institutions, labour, energy, trust and governance — and ask whether societies and economies are prepared for the scale of change we now face. The conversation ranges over stories about AI going rogue, the capability vs governance gap, the physical impacts of something that is still perceived by many as intangible, how AI promises the democratisation of technology while fuelling inequality, and what companies are doing to address these challenges. For businesses, the questions are becoming increasingly operational: what governance, oversight and accountability systems need to exist once AI becomes embedded inside day-to-day decision-making? It’s worth asking: is your business prepared for what happens once AI starts influencing real operational decisions? The arc on AI is now complete! You can find the rest of the episodes (alongside our entire catalogue) here. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram – and why not spread the word with your friends and colleagues?

48 min
May 14

The trust layer: AI and the future of identity with alongID

As AI systems become more autonomous, the conversation is shifting from capability toward something much bigger: trust, legitimacy, identity and participation in digital systems. In this episode of Shaken Not Burned, Felicia speaks to Erika Maslauskaite, co-founder and CEO of alongID, about the rapidly evolving world of digital identity, interoperability and cross-border trust infrastructure — and why these questions are becoming increasingly important as AI agents begin acting on behalf of people and organisations. From digital wallets and verification systems to fraud, privacy and governance, the conversation explores the growing tension between convenience, security and control in an increasingly AI-driven world. Because beneath the technology itself sits a deeper challenge: how do societies build systems that people can trust, how do institutions adapt to rapid technological change, and what happens when increasingly autonomous technologies collide with fragmented infrastructure and real-world human complexity. This episode is a grounded and wide-ranging discussion about digital identity, AI infrastructure and the future of participation in an increasingly connected world. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram – and why not spread the word with your friends and colleagues?

56 min
May 7

If AI can build your business, who's in control? With DeepWisdom

Generative AI promised to transform how we work, while Agentic AI is beginning to transform how businesses themselves are built. In this week’s episode of Shaken Not Burned, Felicia Jackson talks to Ethan Ouyang, who is AI ATOMS Spokesperson and responsible for North America Market & Partnerships. ATOMS is the venture building platform developed by DeepWisdom, one of China’s leading artificial intelligence companies. It has been designed as an agentic AI system, helping businesses, particularly small and medium-sized enterprises, integrate AI into their operations. Unlike traditional generative AI tools, agentic AI systems can take goals, execute tasks, adapt in real time and increasingly function as operational actors inside organisations. From launching products to running marketing campaigns and managing workflows, these systems are beginning to shift AI from a support tool to fundamental business infrastructure. This trend is dramatically raising the stakes in today's AI conversations. As AI systems move from producing outputs to taking actions, they are not simply improving productivity; they are beginning to reshape entrepreneurship, business formation and operational decision-making itself. Using DeepWisdom’s platform Atom, AI agents are increasingly able to research markets, design products, launch businesses, run marketing and optimise revenue — pushing AI beyond content generation into execution. But this rapid acceleration of capabilities raises deeper questions. As AI capability expands, governance, ownership, financial models and operational discipline are still evolving. What happens when businesses can be built faster than the systems designed to regulate them? Where does accountability sit when AI agents act on behalf of founders or organisations? And what risks emerge when speed outpaces governance? This conversation explores: The shift from generative AI to agentic AI How AI is transforming business creation and operational execution Human-in-the-loop decision-making and delegated authority Ownership, IP and evolving business model challenges Why governance structures may be lagging behind capability Sustainability, infrastructure, and the resource demands of AI at scaleIf you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our newsletter and follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram – and why not spread the word with your friends and colleagues?

38 min

Shaken Not Burned is the podcast that helps you make sense of sustainability. We unpack the big debates shaping climate, business, food, and society: debunking myths, clarifying trade-offs, and sharing ideas you can actually use to think, decide, and act in a changing world.

Creator

Felicia Jackson and Giulia Bottaro
Years Active

2021 - 2026
Episodes

121
Rating

Clean
Copyright

© 2026 Shaken Not Burned
Show Website

Shaken Not Burned