Fractals of Change

Mary Schaub

Fractals of Change  explores the hidden patterns that shape how individuals, relationships, organizations, and societies evolve—from human psychology to leadership, organizations, and society. Through solo reflections and conversations with thinkers, researchers, leaders, and creators, the podcast uncovers how these patterns appear across domains of life, revealing the deeper architecture behind transformation. Each episode explores one pattern. Together, they form a larger composition about how change actually works—and how we can navigate it more skillfully.

  1. Feeling Felt

    4D AGO

    Feeling Felt

    Human beings are not wired for productivity or achievement—they are wired for connection. Yet modern life increasingly disrupts that foundation, leaving many navigating stress, trauma, and fragmentation without the relational systems the nervous system depends on. In this conversation, Mary Schaub speaks with psychologist Dr. Megan Schmidt about connection as a biological process—rooted in co-regulation, implicit memory, and the body’s ongoing “conversation” with others. At the center is attunement—the experience of “feeling felt”—as both the origin of development and the pathway to healing. ✅ Key Topics  Co-regulation as the foundation of human development  Attachment, implicit memory, and early nervous system formation  Misattunement and adult patterns (hypervigilance, collapse, self-doubt)  Attunement and “feeling felt” as mechanisms for growth and repair  Rupture and repair beyond apology  Over-attunement (“fawning”) and boundaries as regulation 💡Takeaways  Connection is biological, not optional  The body encodes experience before conscious awareness  Attunement organizes identity, emotion, and meaning  Repair is relational, not verbal  Regulation cannot be achieved through cognition alone 🎤 Memorable Quotes “We are mammals… designed to co-regulate… in a body-to-body conversation.” — Dr. Megan Schmidt “Our body tells a different story than the one we can explain.” — Dr. Megan Schmidt “Behaviors that seem problematic are often adaptations.” — Dr. Megan Schmidt “You can’t think your way into this—you have to feel it.” — Mary Schaub🔗Resources  Gabor Maté — https://drgabormate.com Bessel van der Kolk — https://www.besselvanderkolk.com Still Face Experiment — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzXGEbZht0NICABM — https://www.nicabm.com Polyvagal Theory — https://www.polyvagalinstitute.org co-regulation, attachment theory, trauma, nervous system, emotional regulation, attunement, relational psychology, developmental trauma, neuroplasticity, recursion, identity patterns, dissociation, polycrisis, leadership psychology, somatics, consciousness, human connection, behavioral health, systems thinking, transformation Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    57 min
  2. Recursion

    APR 28

    Recursion

    Recursion is a foundational pattern: systems feeding outputs back into themselves, shaping continuity and change. This episode explores recursion across mind, relationships, organizations, and society—from identity and trauma to culture and systems. We don’t escape the loops we’re in. We change them—iteration by iteration. 💡Key Takeaways  Recursion drives both stability and change  The present is built from repeated patterns of the past  Identity is recursively constructed through narrative and behavior  Relationships reflect repeated interaction patterns  Culture and organizations emerge from repeated behaviors  Social systems are sustained by reinforcing feedback loops  Awareness enables intervention  Small changes, repeated, reshape systems 🎤Memorable Quotes  “The system becomes the input to its own future.”  “Over time, biography becomes strategy.”  “We live inside the stories we repeat.”  “Trust is built through repeated experience.”  “Culture is recursion made social.”  “Institutions become what they repeatedly rehearse.” 🔗Resources  Hofstadter — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_loop Jung — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individuation Watts — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts Ram Dass — https://www.ramdass.org/ Fromm — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm van der Kolk — https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/ Levine — https://traumahealing.org/ Bromberg — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_M._Bromberg Related Episodes  Emergence — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14614664-emergence  Polarity — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14701886-polarity  Disruption — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14795072-disruption  Thomas Gartenmann — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14864025  Cottrell & DelMay — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14732069 Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    36 min
  3. Reaction to Response

    APR 21

    Reaction to Response

    We don't have a leadership crisis. We have a nervous system crisis. Executive coach, organizational psychologist and Founder and Managing Partner of Aergon, Dr. Thomas Gartenmann joins Mary Schaub to explore what happens when human biology — designed for a slower, smaller world — collides with the accelerating complexity of the polycrisis, the 24-hour news cycle, and the relentless pressure of modern organizational life. The result, Thomas argues, isn't bad behavior. It's biology operating without awareness. Drawing on decades of work with leaders across cultures — from Swiss boardrooms to Asian multinationals to US consulting firms — Thomas traces a path from the body's automatic survival responses to the kind of conscious, relational presence that transforms not just individuals, but the systems they lead. Along the way, the conversation moves through road rage and Swiss train precision, childhood scripting and shadow selves, singing in a choir and what it taught him about listening, and the Egyptian philosopher whose answer to "who is the most important person?" stopped both host and guest in their tracks. Key Topics ✅Fight / flight / freeze / fawn responses in homes, teams, and organizations ✅Leadership as modeling: culture change starts with the leader’s regulation ✅Responding vs reacting (Viktor Frankl’s “space”) ✅Playfulness and the “jester” archetype as a tension-release mechanism ✅Identity, self-states, and context (“Who are you, and how many?”) ✅Shadow in individuals and organizations; the risk of rigid labels (“toxic culture”) ✅Relational ethics: presence with “the person in front of me” Takeaways 💡Threat compresses time. When activated, we’re not in the moment—we’re in the past, running a familiar script. 💡Awareness creates options. Naming internal activation (“I’m feeling angry” vs “I am angry”) opens a wedge of choice. 💡Regulation is contagious. A leader’s dysregulation spreads; a leader’s steadiness can also stabilize a room. 💡Language matters, but the body leads. Insight helps, yet real change comes from practicing state-shifts under pressure. 💡Joy can’t be forced. Chasing it directly often backfires; it tends to arise as a byproduct of safety, attunement, and flow. 💡Culture is patterned imitation. What becomes “normal” spreads—especially under stress—unless interrupted by conscious modeling.   Memorable Quotes 🎤 “The harm we’re facing today isn’t caused by bad people or bad intentions. It’s caused by nervous systems operating beyond their capacity.” 🎤 “If our nervous system is in fight, flight, freeze, fawn, we’re just reacting… We can’t create the future out of the past.” 🎤 “I make a difference between reacting and responding… I choose my response.” 🎤 “Life is a below-the-neck experience. It’s not happening in our head.” 🎤 “If I realize I’m not my thought… that relaxes me.” Resources / External Links  🔗Thomas Gartenmann — Airgon (airgon.com) — his consultancy integrating psychology and business leadership 🔗The Emperor’s Cupboard (2022) — Western psychology + Eastern wisdom for business leaders: https://a. Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    1h 6m
  4. Disruption

    APR 14

    Disruption

    Disruption feels like destruction. Collapse. Failure. Something breaks, and we panic. But what if disruption isn’t the opposite of order? What if it’s how reality renews itself? In this episode of Fractals of Change, Mary Schaub explores disruption as a universal pattern that appears wherever life, systems, and identities outgrow the forms that once sustained them. From forest fires to burnout, marriages to markets, civilizations to the psyche, disruption marks the moment when an old structure reaches its limit and must reorganize or collapse. Disruption isn’t chaos. It’s a transition. Summary: We live in a culture obsessed with stability. We try to prevent disruption, control it, or—when that fails—weaponize it. But across nature, psychology, organizations, and history, disruption follows a consistent pattern. Systems don’t change smoothly. They accumulate tension. They grow brittle. And when conditions shift beyond what a structure can hold, disruption arrives. In ecosystems, fire clears dead matter and releases nutrients. Suppress it too long, and destruction becomes catastrophic. In the human psyche, burnout and breakdown often signal not weakness, but misfit—an identity that can no longer metabolize reality. In relationships, conflict surfaces what avoidance keeps hidden. In organizations and societies, delayed adaptation guarantees more violent reckoning later. Drawing from complexity science, Stoic philosophy, Buddhism, indigenous wisdom, and lived experience, this episode reframes disruption not as punishment, but as pattern. The danger isn’t disruption itself. The danger is denial, acceleration beyond human capacity, and exploitation of fear. The question isn’t how to stop disruption. It’s how to meet it wisely.   Takeaways: 💡 Disruption is not random destruction but a fractal breakpoint where an existing pattern exhausts its capacity 💡Stability held too long becomes brittle; disruption delayed becomes more violent 💡Psychological breakdowns often signal structural misfit, not personal failure 💡Healthy systems move through cycles of disruption, repair, and reorganization 💡Disruption becomes traumatic when it is too fast, unsupported, denied, or stripped of meaning 💡Wisdom lies not in controlling disruption, but in building the capacity to integrate it Compelling Quotes: 🎤 “Disruption isn’t chaos. It’s a transition.” 🎤“Stability held too long becomes brittle.” 🎤“Some things end not because they failed, but because they completed their purpose.” 🎤“Disruption isn’t the enemy. It’s how reality learns.” 🎤“Life doesn’t choose between stability and disruption. It lives in the tension.”   Keywords: Disruption, Change, Transformation, Complex systems, Burnout, Identity, Trauma and growth, Organizational change, Psychology of change, Stoicism, Buddhism, Systems thinking, Fractals of Change Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    28 min
  5. Exposure to Discernment

    APR 7

    Exposure to Discernment

    Mary Schaub speaks with Alec Harris about how privacy, security, and personal risk have evolved in a world shaped by data brokers, algorithmic profiling, AI, and digital surveillance. Rather than focusing only on hackers and technical systems, they explore a more fundamental question: what are we protecting—and how visible have we become without fully realizing it? They examine why privacy is not about “having something to hide,” but about autonomy, safety, and discernment. Along the way, they unpack metadata, device fingerprinting, dynamic pricing, reputational risk, AI’s double edge, and the growing gap between convenience and control. This is not a conversation about disappearing. It’s about calibration—understanding where the risks are, what matters most, and how to make more conscious tradeoffs in a world that increasingly rewards exposure. Topics Privacy vs. convenience in the digital ageThe “human attack surface” in cybersecurityWhy metadata can be more revealing than contentData brokers and the commercial data economyDevice fingerprinting and cross-platform trackingDynamic pricing and behavioral targetingAI as both a defensive and offensive toolPublic exposure, doxing, and reputational riskPractical digital security and privacy hygieneBalancing visibility with protection Memorable Quotes “It’s less about who we have to protect ourselves from, and more about what we have to protect.”“You don’t have to be the fastest antelope. You just can’t be the slowest.”“The metadata around how we behave is often more revealing than what we say.”“You can have a public persona and still protect the crown jewels.”“It’s not about hiding. It’s about discernment and balance.”“Doing a little bit for a long time is a fantastic place to land.” Resources How to Disappear — The Atlantic (on modern privacy and anonymity)The Age of Surveillance Capitalism — Shoshana Zuboff (data and behavioral prediction)Cambridge Analytica case (data-driven political targeting)GDPR (EU privacy and data protection law)Real-Time Bidding (RTB) (how user data is auctioned for ads)Device fingerprinting (tracking users across platforms)Managed attribution (how metadata reveals identity)Don’t F**k With Cats (online investigation and digital tracing) Keywords   privacy and security podcast, digital privacy, personal cybersecurity, metadata privacy, online privacy, data brokers, surveillance capitalism, AI and privacy, digital security tips, reputational risk online, device fingerprinting, real-time bidding data, how to protect your privacy online, why privacy matters, personal security in the digital age, social media privacy risks, cybersecurity for individuals, doxing and online harassment, AI security risks, privacy vs convenience Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    1h 1m
  6. Polarity

    MAR 31

    Polarity

    Why do individuals, relationships, organizations, and societies keep swinging between extremes—even when we know better? In this solo episode of Fractals of Change, Mary Schaub explores polarity as a foundational pattern of reality: the dynamic tension between opposites that generates movement, meaning, and emergence. Drawing from physics, Jungian psychology, Taoism, systems theory, and lived experience, this episode reframes polarity not as a problem to solve, but as a law of motion to work with. From personal shadow work to relationship dynamics, organizational leadership, and the weaponization of polarization in modern media and politics, Mary examines what happens when systems over-identify with one pole and suppress its opposite—and how integration, rather than oscillation, becomes the path to stability and growth. Summary: Polarity shows up everywhere: stability and change, order and chaos, control and freedom, innovation and governance, sensitivity and strength. When one pole is over-emphasized, the neglected opposite doesn’t disappear—it returns through symptoms, conflict, projection, or collapse. This episode traces polarity across domains: Physics, where energy, motion, and structure only exist because of opposing forcesPsychology, where suppressed traits return through shadow and compensationRelationships, where unintegrated opposites fuel cycles of pursuit, withdrawal, and ruptureOrganizations, where pendulum swings between centralized and decentralized models repeat endlesslySociety, where polarity is increasingly weaponized through attention economics and identity-based conflictRather than choosing sides, Mary argues for developing the capacity to hold tension long enough for a third, integrative way to emerge—individually and collectively.   Takeaways: 💡Polarity is not conflict. It is the precondition for structure, movement, and emergence. 💡Suppressed opposites do not vanish—they accumulate and return through symptoms, projection, or crisis. 💡Extreme certainty creates brittleness, not strength, in individuals and systems. 💡Growth requires integration, not elimination, of uncomfortable traits and perspectives. 💡Leadership is polarity management: holding stability and change, innovation and governance, care and accountability simultaneously. 💡Modern polarization is often engineered, exploiting our cognitive and moral shortcuts for profit and power. 💡The “third way” emerges only when tension is held, not prematurely resolved.    Compelling Quotes: 🎤 “Polarity isn’t a problem to solve. It’s a law of motion.” 🎤“What we refuse to integrate doesn’t disappear—it returns through our behavior, our relationships, or our projections.” 🎤“Stability doesn’t live at the extremes. It lives between them.” 🎤“The work isn’t choosing a side. It’s holding the tension long enough for something new to emerge.” 🎤“Polarity isn’t ideological or psychological. It’s ontological—it’s how reality organizes itself.”   Links:   Polarity and Leadership ✅Polarity as a Leadership Lens & Complexity Frame Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    28 min
  7. Revenge to Repair

    MAR 24

    Revenge to Repair

    What if the systems we built to protect us are the very ones causing the most harm? Attorney, restorative justice advocate, and policy advisor at Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS),  Sia Henry joins Mary Schaub for an unflinching examination of the American criminal legal system.  The system doesn't heal harm. It relocates it, multiplies it, and sends it back into communities more concentrated than before. But this episode isn't only about what's broken. It's about what's possible when we ask a different question — not "how do we punish?" but "how do we repair?" From New Zealand's indigenous-rooted restorative justice model to Norway's open prisons, from the radical promise of psychedelic-assisted therapy to a man walking out of prison for the first time able to read a grocery store label, Sia maps a landscape of alternatives that are cheaper, more humane, and demonstrably more effective. And she connects it all to something more intimate: the micro-moments in every life where we choose exile or encounter, punishment or presence.  Key Topics ✅Accountability vs punishment (and why the distinction matters) ✅How incarceration relocates harm and destabilizes communities ✅Trauma, ACEs, hypervigilance, and survival adaptations ✅Psychedelic-assisted therapies as a compressed path to healing ✅Education and healthcare as public safety infrastructure ✅Interdependence vs individualism as a root cultural fracture   Key Takeaways 💡Punishment isn’t accountability. Repair requires understanding harm, making amends, and changing future behavior. 💡Incarceration compounds trauma. It harms families and communities, then returns people with fewer resources and more wounds. 💡Systems protect themselves. Even superior models face institutional resistance when budgets and headcount are at stake. 💡Healing scales. When individuals heal, families and communities stabilize—public safety improves upstream.   Memorable Quotes 🎤“No part of the system is about healing… it’s purely about punishment.” — Sia Henry 🎤“When we say we want that person held accountable, what we’re really saying is that we want punishment… revenge.” — Sia Henry 🎤“A child who’s not embraced by its village will burn it down to feel its warmth.” — African proverb, cited by Sia Henry   Resources & Links 🔗MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies): https://maps.org/ 🔗Mount Tamalpais College (San Quentin): https://www.mttamcollege.edu/ 🔗Jonathan Haidt — The Righteous Mind: https://jonathanhaidt.com/books/the-righteous-mind/ 🔗Portugal drug decriminalization (overview): https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight Keywords   Restorative justice, criminal legal system, mass incarceration, accountability vs punishment, trauma, ACEs, PTSD, recidivism, abolition, racial justice, Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    56 min
5
out of 5
2 Ratings

About

Fractals of Change  explores the hidden patterns that shape how individuals, relationships, organizations, and societies evolve—from human psychology to leadership, organizations, and society. Through solo reflections and conversations with thinkers, researchers, leaders, and creators, the podcast uncovers how these patterns appear across domains of life, revealing the deeper architecture behind transformation. Each episode explores one pattern. Together, they form a larger composition about how change actually works—and how we can navigate it more skillfully.