Fractals of Change

Mary Schaub

Fractals of Change  explores the hidden patterns that shape how individuals, relationships, organizations, and societies evolve—from human psychology to leadership, organizations, and society. Through solo reflections and conversations with thinkers, researchers, leaders, and creators, the podcast uncovers how these patterns appear across domains of life, revealing the deeper architecture behind transformation. Each episode explores one pattern. Together, they form a larger composition about how change actually works—and how we can navigate it more skillfully.

  1. Are You Gonna Listen?

    6d ago

    Are You Gonna Listen?

    What does it mean to truly listen — to a child, to grief, to the signs the universe leaves when we're paying attention?   Writer and former biology teacher Katie Rizzo joins Mary for a conversation of rare honesty about loss, addiction, guilt, and the unexpected ways art saves us. Katie's son Nicholas died from opioid addiction, and rather than turn away from the pain, she turned toward it — writing her way through the experience in two forthcoming books: The Trimesters of Grief, a memoir, and None of Them Are You, a collection of poems. Together, Mary and Katie explore the uncanny parallels between pregnancy brain and grief brain, the systemic failures of addiction medicine, the shame culture that surrounds both loss and addiction, and what it means to be "half here and half with Nicholas." This episode is about the courage to be broken — and what becomes possible when you stop pretending otherwise.  ✅Key Topics Identity, loss, and what happens to a self built entirely around motherhood The three "trimesters" of grief and the physical experience of bereavementWriting as a lifelineNick Cave's practice of externalizing grief The opioid crisis up closeShame in addiction: the systems, the families, and the internal monologue that tells addicts they are a moral failureThe radical act of authentic grief: saying "I'm terrible" to a neighbor who expected "we'll get through it" — and what her running away taught Katie about who can witness painBirds, bald eagles, and the question of what's real: on staying open to signs, connection beyond death, and resisting arrogance about what we don't understandHealing as service — not wholeness, not gold leaf over the cracks, but opening your eyes wide enough to climb a fence in Central Park for a stranger with a dropped phoneHow free do you wanna be? — the Al-Anon principle that became Katie's anchor in grief   💡Takeaways Grief and new life share the same body: disorientation, longing, inability to eat, altered time. The cruelty of that mirroring is also its strange intimacy.The 70–90% relapse rate for opioid addiction isn't a failure of willpower — it's a system in crisis. The drug is that powerful, and the structural incentives for alternatives are that weak.Addiction carries a cultural load of shame that kills. The shift from moral framing to disease framing isn't soft — it's survival.Art isn't content. It never was. Music, poetry, and story are how humans get back into their bodies, regulate, and transmit what language alone can't hold.Healing isn't restoration. It's learning to live as someone with a hole in them, and choosing to open your eyes anyway.Connection is not a feeling you generate — it's what happens when you say yes when someone calls, climb a fence when a stranger is crying, and tell the truth when someone asks how you are.  🎤Memorable Quotes   "This death has shattered me, and I'm not a vase we can drizzle gold leaf over the jagged pieces and push back together. I'm just broken, which isn't as bad as it sounds." — Katie Rizzo, The Trimesters of Grief"I felt like I was this liminal creature. I was half here and half with Nicholas. I still feel that way." — Katie Rizzo"Art has the power to redress the balance of things, of our wrongs, of our sins... I have found that the goodness of the work can go some way towards mitigating them." — Nick Cave (read by Mary)"How free do you wanna be?" — Al-Anon, as quoted by Katie Rizzo   🔗Resources / External Links (only if applicable)  The Trimesters of Grief will be released on October 6 by Koehler Books, with Blackstone Publishing. None of Them Are You - A book of Poems will be published on October 31st by Extra Extra Publishing. Katie's Books The Trimesters of Grief — memoir, releasing October 6th Published by Koehler Books & Blackstone Publishing 📸 Instagram: @koehlerbookspub 🧵 Threads: @koehlerbookspub 📘 Facebook: facebook.com/koehlerbooks 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/koehler-books ▶️ YouTube: Koehler Books 📸 Blackstone Instagram: @blackstonepublishing 💼 Blackstone LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/blackstonepublishing None of Them Are You — poetry, releasing October 31st (Día de los Muertos) Published by Extra Extra Publishing 📸 Instagram: @extraextrapublishinghouse Connect with Katie 🌐 Website: katierizzo.com💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/katie-rizzo-098978280📘 Facebook: facebook.com/rizzoboysandagirl📸 Instagram: @katierizzo007🎵 TikTok: @katie.rizzo007  Referenced in this episode Nick Cave — The Red Hand Files (blog): theredhandfiles.comDavid Kessler — grief researcher and author: grief.comColin Campbell — Finding the Words (book on grief and connection)Dr. Steve Ramirez — memory researcher, Boston University (memory creation/removal in neuroscience)Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind — referenced in conversation about memory and lossLove in the Trenches — East Coast grief support group for parents who have lost children to addictionAl-Anon — support for families of people with addiction: al-anon.orgMatthew Perry — Friends, Lovers, and the Big Terrible Thing (memoir on addiction, referenced by Mary)   Keywords grief memoir, opioid addiction loss, mother grief book, Trimesters of Grief, Katie Rizzo, loss of a child, addiction and shame, opioid crisis systemic failure, grief and creativity, writing through loss, Nick Cave grief, liminal grief, grief brain, poetry after loss, None of Them Are You, Koehler Books, Blackstone Publishing, Extra Extra Publishing, how to live with grief, Fractals of Change podcast Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    48 min
  2. Energy

    Jun 9

    Energy

    Energy is the most fundamental pattern running through every living system—and most of us are barely paying attention to it. In this solo episode, Mary Schaub traces the pattern of energy from thermodynamics and cellular biology through psychology, relationships, organizations, and social movements, making the case that energy is not a metaphor or a wellness buzzword—it's a precise, observable, cross-domain force that shapes how we live, work, love, and change. Drawing on her own story of how this show began, a client case study in energy misalignment, and research from neuroscience to elite athletic performance, Mary offers both a framework for reading your energy honestly and three practices for managing it with intention. ✅ Key Topics What energy actually means across physics, biology, psychology, and systems thinking—and why the pattern is the same in all of them (Mary Schaub)Activation energy and the threshold principle: why starting is always harder than sustaining (physics/athletics)Freud's concept of libido as life energy and Jung's psychic energy—why suppression redirects rather than eliminates (Freud, Jung)Prana and pranayama as ancient energy management systems (Ayurvedic and yogic traditions)The brain's energetic cost: why chronic uncertainty is exhausting and clarity is physically restorative (neuroscience)Client case study: Dina, a healthcare executive whose energy misalignment was structural, not personalHow this show itself emerged from Mary tracking her own energyEmotional contagion and co-regulation: how nervous systems affect each other's physiological states (research on relational energy)Gottman's "bids for connection" as an energetic exchange model (John Gottman)Losada's research on positive-to-negative interaction ratios in high-performing teams (Marcial Losada)Organizational energy states: from resigned inertia to productive engagement (Heike Bruch & Sumantra Ghoshal, IMD/London Business School)Social movements as activation energy events—and why the trigger is never the causeHow algorithmic attention economies harvest and deplete collective energyThree practices: Audit, Boundary as Energy Management, Renewal as DisciplineJim Loehr's research on energy—not time—as the fundamental currency of high performance (Jim Loehr)  💡 Takeaways Energy is never created or destroyed—it is converted, transferred, concentrated, and dispersed. This isn't just physics. It's the pattern underlying how people change.The hardest part of any change is crossing the activation energy threshold, not sustaining momentum once it's established.Suppression doesn't eliminate energy—it redirects it. What you don't let yourself feel in one place shows up somewhere else.Chronic uncertainty is energetically expensive. Clarity releases resources the nervous system had locked in open loops.Depletion is not a character flaw. It is structural information about misalignment—and it has structural solutions.The highest performers aren't those who work the most hours. They're those who manage recovery deliberately.A boundary is not a wall. It's a selectively permeable membrane that regulates what flows in and out of your system.The most transformative moments for clients rarely come from adding something new. They come from stopping something that was quietly draining them.Rest is not a reward earned when the work is done. Recovery is where the system actually builds.You cannot give what you don't have. Sustained depletion is not noble—it's a solvable structural problem.  🎤 Memorable Quotes "Energy doesn't lie. And once you learn to read it, you realize it's been telling you the truth about yourself—and everyone around you—all along." —Mary Schaub (cold open)"You are, at the most fundamental level, a pattern of energy moving through time." —Mary Schaub (on cellular biology and identity)"The emotion you don't let yourself feel in one context tends to show up somewhere else. In a snapped comment. In a late-night scroll. In a physical symptom. The energy needed an outlet, and it found one." —Mary Schaub (on suppression)"When you start treating energy as a pattern rather than a tank, the question shifts from how do I get more of it to how do I connect my energy to what I value and monitor with skillful awareness." —Mary Schaub (Dina case study)"The trigger is rarely the cause. The cause is the accumulated energy of thousands of people reaching a threshold simultaneously." —Mary Schaub (on social movements)"We are, in a very real sense, harvesting each other's activation energy for purposes that don't serve us." —Mary Schaub (on attention economies)"Depletion is information, not weakness. Aliveness is information, not indulgence." —Mary Schaub (closing)"Where is your energy most alive? Not where it should be. Not where it looks impressive. Not where you've been told it ought to go. Where is it most alive? Start there." —Mary Schaub (closing)  🔗 Resources Freud, Sigmund — Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality (1905) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Essays_on_the_Theory_of_SexualityJung, Carl — On Psychic Energy (1928) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Psychic_EnergyGottman, John — The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work (1999) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_GottmanLosada, Marcial — Positivity ratio research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losada_ratioBruch, Heike & Ghoshal, Sumantra — Beware the Busy Manager, Harvard Business Review (2002) https://hbr.org/2002/02/beware-the-busy-managerLoehr, Jim — The Power of Full Engagement (2003) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Full_EngagementMaroutian, Emily — In Case Nobody Told You (2017) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Maroutian  Keywords energy, pattern of energy, thermodynamics, activation energy, psychic energy, prana, pranayama, nervous system, emotional contagion, co-regulation, energy audit, boundaries, renewal, recovery, high performance, organizational energy, social movements, attention economy, entropy, mitochondria, jim loehr, john gottman, carl jung, fractals of change, leadership, burnout, transformation, inner work Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    32 min
  3. Love as Infrastructure

    Jun 2

    Love as Infrastructure

    What if the polycrisis — climate breakdown, social fragmentation, economic inequality — isn't primarily a failure of strategy, but a failure of love? Systems scientist and organizational philosopher Dr. Louis Klein joins host Mary Schaub to trace the hidden architecture beneath our most visible crises. Drawing on decades of work in organizational development, complexity science, and collaboration with Morocco's Tamkeen Community Foundation, Louis argues that the governance crisis sits atop a deeper relational crisis — and that systems thinking itself must evolve to invite what it once cast out: wisdom traditions, indigenous knowledge, and the irreducible fact of our shared humanity. Key Topics ✅Hyper-normalization — Adam Curtis's concept applied to our current cultural moment, and why Gen Z's refusal to "fit in" is a coherent response to an incoherent system ✅The Tamkeen experience in Morocco — how a 10-year learning journey co-creating conditions for human flourishing revealed what mainstream change management consistently misses ✅Tamkeen and Makan al-Makeen — the Arabic concepts of fertile potential and safe, nourishing space that no European language quite captures Takeaways 💡The crisis is layered. Beneath the polycrisis is a governance crisis; beneath that is a crisis of humanity — of how we relate to each other, to nature, and to ourselves. 💡Growth as anxiety. Our addiction to extraction and economic growth is rooted in a legitimate but distorted impulse: the fear of fragility. Understanding that impulse with compassion — rather than judgment — is the beginning of change. 💡The future is invited, not engineered. Transformative change doesn't come from moving from point A to point B. It comes from recognizing what already wants to grow, and creating conditions for it. 💡Capacity isn't built — it's recognized. The shift from "capacity building" to "capacity recognition" is not semantic. It changes the entire posture of leadership, change work, and community development. Memorable Quotes 🎤"Don't look for love — just remove the barriers you put up to find it." — Rumi, cited by Louis Klein 🎤"You don't need to earn your living. You're living already."   Resources / External Links  🔗 Adam Curtis, HyperNormalisation (2016 documentary) — BBC iPlayer / YouTube — on the Soviet concept of living a hollow lie for lack of alternatives, applied to our current cultural moment 🔗Donella Meadows et al., The Limits to Growth (1972) — the Club of Rome's landmark systems simulation, referenced throughout 🔗Tamkeen For Our Humanity Foundation (Morocco) — tamkeencommunity.org — the organization behind the 10-year learning journey discussed in depth 🔗Louis Klein's writing on the Tamkeen experience — co-authored with Karima Kadaoui; searchable via the Systems Sciences community and Louis's organizational profiles (IFSR — International Federation for Systems Research Keywords   systems thinking and love · polycrisis solutions · organizational transformation · humanizing organizations · Louis Klein systems scientist · Tamkeen Morocco human flourishing · conscious change management · limits to growth Club of Rome · reflective organization · safe and nourishing spaces · complexity and change · love in leadership · HyperNormalization Adam Curtis · capacity recognition · fractals of change podcast Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    1h 16m
  4. Boundaries

    May 26

    Boundaries

    We tend to think of boundaries as restrictions — limits that hold us back. But boundaries are what make anything possible. In this episode, Mary explores boundaries as a universal pattern: the structures that define what is inside and outside a system, regulate what flows in and out, and protect the capacity that makes growth sustainable. From cellular biology to family systems, from organizational design to spiritual traditions, the pattern holds — and understanding it changes how we relate to ourselves, each other, and the systems we're part of. ✅Key Topics What boundaries actually are — and why filters, not walls, is the right frameAutopoiesis and the biology of self-maintaining systems (Maturana & Varela)The immune system as a model of self/non-self-distinction Polyvagal Theory and how the nervous system regulates input (Stephen Porges)Family systems and the spectrum from enmeshment to disengagement (Salvador Minuchin)How porous and rigid boundaries show up differently — and what drives each Organizational boundaries: bounded rationality, decision rights, and information flow (Herbert Simon) Societal boundaries: identity, belonging, and imagined communities (Benedict Anderson)  💡Takeaways Boundaries exist on a spectrum — too rigid leads to brittleness; too porous leads to dissolution. Healthy systems calibrate, not eliminateWhat looks like generosity is sometimes a lack of boundary. What looks like strength is sometimes protection from vulnerabilityBuilding healthier boundaries starts inside — getting clear on what is yours to carry before negotiating anything with anyone elseIn relationships, boundary erosion doesn't always look like conflict. Sometimes it looks like losing yourself gradually in a pattern you never consciously choseOrganizational clarity — defined roles, decision rights, structured information flow — is boundary design at scale.Revisiting your boundaries isn't a sign that something went wrong. It's a sign that something is growing. 🎤Memorable Quotes "Boundaries aren't walls. They are filters." — Mary Schaub 🔗 Resources / External Links   Salvador Minuchin — family systems and structural therapy https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/structural-family-therapyHerbert Simon — bounded rationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationalityErich Fromm — Escape from Freedom (1941) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Freedom  Keywords boundaries, personal boundaries, systems thinking, self-regulation, polyvagal theory, enmeshment, codependency, organizational design, family systems, biophilia, autopoiesis, relational intelligence, capacity, regression, Fractals of Change, leadership, psychology, transformation, inner work, nervous system Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    22 min
  5. Unhackable Mind

    May 19

    Unhackable Mind

    What if the most dangerous security breach isn't in your devices — it's in your mind? In this episode, Mary sits down with Corina Pantea, a researcher at the intersection of brain security, cognitive warfare, and digital psychology, to explore how the same techniques used in military psychological operations now run invisibly through marketing, social media, workplace dynamics, and everyday technology. They trace the collapse of the boundary between influence and thought, examine why emotional manipulation is more effective than logical persuasion, and make the case that genuine self-knowledge — not software — is the primary line of cognitive defense.   ✅Key Topics PSYOPs then and now: from wartime propaganda to ambient digital influenceThe human mind as an attack surface — and why it's largely undefendedWhy social engineering accounts for 90% of data breaches, yet the cybersecurity industry focuses on the other 10%How neuromarketing, Psycho-Cybernetics, and social engineering are different names for the same mechanismThe reptilian brain as the easiest entry point for manipulationHow chronic dysregulation — stoked by media and social platforms — keeps populations pliableSynthetic relationships, AI companionship, and the erosion of authentic identityThe economics of keeping people helplessPractical cognitive self-defense: silence, self-knowledge, high-quality information, and repair in relationships  💡Takeaways The human brain hasn't evolved past its ancient vulnerabilities — that's precisely what PSYOPs and modern marketing exploit. The attack surface isn't new; the scale is.Emotional triggers bypass rational thought entirely. Fear, urgency, shame, and outrage are mechanisms of access, not persuasion.Knowing your own trauma, triggers, and worth is not therapy-speak — it's security architecture. You cannot be exploited through a wound you've already healed.Authentic human connection is the last line of defense. When real relationships get replaced by synthetic ones, the final external reference point for reality disappears.Information overload is a feature, not a bug — a brain running too many tabs cannot connect the dots.You are the value. The economic model collapses without human labor and human consumption. The narrative that you're replaceable is itself a manipulation tactic.  🎤 Memorable Quotes "If you do not program your brain yourself, someone programs it for you — because they have the exact buttons that work with you specifically." — Corina Pantea "A human is unhackable when they are sovereign. When you know who you are, there is no trigger point." — Corina Pantea "Self-knowledge is not a luxury. You need to know yourself because that is a defense position." — Mary Schaub "Knowledge is not only power — it's freedom." — Corina Pantea "Knowledge is light in times of darkness and ignorance." — Corina Pantea (episode close)     🔗Resources / External Links (only if applicable) Corina Pantea — Follow on Medium and LinkedInMK Ultra — Declassified CIA program on identity manipulation and trauma-induced dissociation. Netflix documentaryRobert Sapolsky — Behavioral biologist; referenced for work on behaviorism and stress biology. YouTube lectures widely available.Daniel Kahneman — Thinking, Fast and Slow — the two-system model of cognition referenced in this episode.Jonathan Haidt — The Anxious Generation — cited re: social media's impact on youth and legislative responses in Australia and elsewhere. cognitive warfare, brain security, PSYOPs, psychological operations, social engineering, neuromarketing, Psycho-Cybernetics, manipulation, attention economy, reptilian brain, digital manipulation, data privacy, cognitive sovereignty, authentic identity, self-defense, trauma, synthetic relationships, AI companionship, dysregulation, information overload, mind hacking, Corina Pantea, Fractals of Change Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    44 min
  6. Regression

    May 12

    Regression

    Regression isn't failure—it is a structural response of any system under strain.  When demands exceed capacity, systems—biological, psychological, relational, and organizational—do not innovate; they revert to previously learned, stabilized patterns. This episode reframes regression as a necessary and predictable part of growth, rooted in recursion and polarity. Through examples from neuroscience, psychology, history, and lived experience, the episode illustrates how contraction follows overextension, and how recognizing regression in real time enables more skillful, intentional response rather than unconscious reactivity.   ✅Key Topics Regression as a systemic pattern (not pathology) Capacity thresholds and nervous system response Recursion and polarity as underlying structures Psychological regression (Freud, Jung) Eastern perspectives (Buddhism, Taoism) on contraction and rebalancing Historical cycles of societal regression and expansion Relational regression and co-regulation breakdown Organizational regression under pressure (control vs. trust) Pattern recognition and conscious intervention Expanding response range as the essence of growth  💡Takeaways Regression is predictable: Systems revert to prior patterns when capacity is exceeded. It is adaptive, not defective: Regression prioritizes speed and survival over complexity. Growth is non-linear: Expansion and contraction operate as a polarity, not a progression. Awareness creates agency: Recognizing regression in real time interrupts automatic patterns. Capacity precedes capability: You cannot solve effectively while dysregulated. Relational systems amplify regression: Two systems under strain can reinforce downward cycles. Organizations behave like individuals: Under pressure, they centralize, control, and simplify. The goal is not elimination: It is upgrading what you regress to and expanding your range over time.  🎤Memorable Quotes “Regression isn’t the opposite of growth. It’s part of the pattern.” “When life asks more of you than you’re able to give, you don’t become more capable—you fall back on what’s already wired.” “The system doesn’t invent something new under pressure. It pulls from what it already knows.” “Regression is efficient. It’s not trying to be right—it’s trying to be fast.” “Growth is about expanding your range of response. Regression narrows it.” “You’re not responding as who you are today—you’re responding as who you were when that pattern was learned.” “Regression isn’t a deviation from growth. It’s how growth stabilizes.”  🔗Resources   Sigmund Freud — Concept of regression as return to earlier developmental coping strategies Carl Jung — Regression as part of individuation and integration Buddhism — Contraction of awareness under suffering Taoism — Rebalancing through natural compensatory movement Historical examples referenced: Collapse of the Western Roman Empire → fragmentation → later Renaissance expansion Post-World War I instability → authoritarian regression → post-World War II global cooperation Regression, systems theory, recursion, polarity, nervous system, capacity, contraction, expansion, psychological patterns, Freud, Jung, Buddhism, Taoism, organizational behavior, leadership, stress response, adaptation, co-regulatio Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    20 min
  7. Feeling Felt

    May 5

    Feeling Felt

    Human beings are not wired for productivity or achievement—they are wired for connection. Yet modern life increasingly disrupts that foundation, leaving many navigating stress, trauma, and fragmentation without the relational systems the nervous system depends on. In this conversation, Mary Schaub speaks with psychologist Dr. Megan Schmidt about connection as a biological process—rooted in co-regulation, implicit memory, and the body’s ongoing “conversation” with others. At the center is attunement—the experience of “feeling felt”—as both the origin of development and the pathway to healing. ✅ Key Topics  Co-regulation as the foundation of human development  Attachment, implicit memory, and early nervous system formation  Misattunement and adult patterns (hypervigilance, collapse, self-doubt)  Attunement and “feeling felt” as mechanisms for growth and repair  Rupture and repair beyond apology  Over-attunement (“fawning”) and boundaries as regulation 💡Takeaways  Connection is biological, not optional  The body encodes experience before conscious awareness  Attunement organizes identity, emotion, and meaning  Repair is relational, not verbal  Regulation cannot be achieved through cognition alone 🎤 Memorable Quotes “We are mammals… designed to co-regulate… in a body-to-body conversation.” — Dr. Megan Schmidt “Our body tells a different story than the one we can explain.” — Dr. Megan Schmidt “Behaviors that seem problematic are often adaptations.” — Dr. Megan Schmidt “You can’t think your way into this—you have to feel it.” — Mary Schaub🔗Resources  Gabor Maté — https://drgabormate.com Bessel van der Kolk — https://www.besselvanderkolk.com Still Face Experiment — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzXGEbZht0NICABM — https://www.nicabm.com Polyvagal Theory — https://www.polyvagalinstitute.org co-regulation, attachment theory, trauma, nervous system, emotional regulation, attunement, relational psychology, developmental trauma, neuroplasticity, recursion, identity patterns, dissociation, polycrisis, leadership psychology, somatics, consciousness, human connection, behavioral health, systems thinking, transformation Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    57 min
  8. Recursion

    Apr 28

    Recursion

    Recursion is a foundational pattern: systems feeding outputs back into themselves, shaping continuity and change. This episode explores recursion across mind, relationships, organizations, and society—from identity and trauma to culture and systems. We don’t escape the loops we’re in. We change them—iteration by iteration. 💡Key Takeaways  Recursion drives both stability and change  The present is built from repeated patterns of the past  Identity is recursively constructed through narrative and behavior  Relationships reflect repeated interaction patterns  Culture and organizations emerge from repeated behaviors  Social systems are sustained by reinforcing feedback loops  Awareness enables intervention  Small changes, repeated, reshape systems 🎤Memorable Quotes  “The system becomes the input to its own future.”  “Over time, biography becomes strategy.”  “We live inside the stories we repeat.”  “Trust is built through repeated experience.”  “Culture is recursion made social.”  “Institutions become what they repeatedly rehearse.” 🔗Resources  Hofstadter — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_loop Jung — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individuation Watts — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts Ram Dass — https://www.ramdass.org/ Fromm — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm van der Kolk — https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/ Levine — https://traumahealing.org/ Bromberg — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_M._Bromberg Related Episodes  Emergence — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14614664-emergence  Polarity — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14701886-polarity  Disruption — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14795072-disruption  Thomas Gartenmann — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14864025  Cottrell & DelMay — https://fractalsofchange.buzzsprout.com/1783825694/episodes/14732069 Disclaimer: ***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.*** Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub Contact: FractalsofChange@outlook.com   Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

    36 min
5
out of 5
2 Ratings

About

Fractals of Change  explores the hidden patterns that shape how individuals, relationships, organizations, and societies evolve—from human psychology to leadership, organizations, and society. Through solo reflections and conversations with thinkers, researchers, leaders, and creators, the podcast uncovers how these patterns appear across domains of life, revealing the deeper architecture behind transformation. Each episode explores one pattern. Together, they form a larger composition about how change actually works—and how we can navigate it more skillfully.