Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. In this episode, I'm joined by Miki Johnson – coach, facilitator, and co-founder of Job Portraits, a creative studio that helped companies tell honest stories about their work and culture. Today, Miki leads Leading By Example, where she supports leaders and teams through moments of change – whether that's a career shift, new parenthood, or redefining purpose. We talk about how to navigate transition with awareness, why enjoying change takes practice, and what it means to lead with authenticity in uncertain times. Miki shares lessons from a decade of coaching and storytelling – from building human-centered workplaces to bringing more body and emotion into leadership. We also explore creativity in the age of AI, and how technology can either deepen or disconnect us from what makes us human. And if you're interested in these kinds of conversations, we'll be diving even deeper into the intersection of leadership, creativity, and AI at Responsive Conference 2026. If you're interested, get your tickets here! https://www.responsiveconference.com/ __________________________________________________________________________________________ 00:00 Start 01:20 Miki's Background and Reservations about AI Miki hasn't used AI and has "very serious reservations." She's not anti-AI – just cautious and curious. Her mindset is about "holding paradox", believing two opposing things can both be true. Her background shapes that approach. She started as a journalist, later ran her own businesses, and now works as a leadership coach. Early in her career, she watched digital technology upend media and photography – industries "blown apart" by change. When she joined a 2008 startup building editable websites for photographers, it was exciting but also unsettling. She saw innovation create progress and loss at the same time. Now in her 40s with two sons, her focus has shifted. She worries less about the tools and more about what they do to people's attention, empathy, and connection – and even democracy. Her concern is how to raise kids and stay human in a distracted world. Robin shares her concerns but takes a different approach. He notes that change now happens "day to day," not decade to decade. He looks at technology through systems, questioning whether pre-internet institutions can survive. "Maybe the Constitution was revolutionary," he says, "but it's out of date for the world we live in." He calls himself a "relentless optimist," believing in democracy and adaptability, but aware both could fail without reform. Both worry deeply about what technology is doing to kids. Robin cites The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt and says, "I don't believe social media is good for children." He and his fiancée plan to limit their kids' screen time, just as Miki already does. They see it as a responsibility: raising grounded kids in a digital world. Robin sees AI as even more transformative – and risky – than anything before. "If social media is bigger than the printing press," he says, "AI is bigger than the wheel." He's amazed by its potential but uneasy about who controls it. He doubts people like Sam Altman act in the public's best interest. His concern isn't about rejecting AI but about questioning who holds power over it. Their difference lies in how they handle uncertainty. Miki's instinct is restraint and reflection – question first, act later, protect empathy and connection. Robin's instinct is engagement with vigilance – learn, adapt, and reform systems rather than retreat. Miki focuses on the human and emotional. Robin focuses on the structural and systemic. Both agree technology is moving faster than people can process or regulate. Miki uses curiosity to slow down and stay human. Robin uses curiosity to move forward and adapt. Together, they represent two sides of the same challenge: protecting what's most human while building what's next. 10:05 Navigating the Tech Landscape Miki starts by describing how her perspective has been shaped by living in two very different worlds. She spent over a decade in the Bay Area, surrounded by tech and startups. She later moved back to her small hometown of Athens, Ohio—a progressive college town surrounded by more rural areas. She calls it "a very small Austin", a blue dot in a red state. She loves it there and feels lucky to have returned home. Robin interrupts briefly to highlight her background. He reminds listeners that Miki and her husband, Jackson, co-founded an employer branding agency called Job Portraits in 2014, the same year they got married. Over eight years, they grew it to around 15 full-time employees and 20 steady contractors. They worked with major startups like DoorDash, Instacart, and Eventbrite when those companies were still small—under 200 employees. Before that, they had started another venture in Chicago during Uber's early expansion beyond San Francisco. Their co-working space was right next to Uber's local team setting up drivers, giving them a front-row seat to the tech boom. Robin points out that Miki isn't coming at this topic as a "layperson." She deeply understands technology, startups, and how they affect people. Miki continues, explaining how that background informs how she sees AI adoption today. Her Bay Area friends are all-in on AI. Many have used it since its earliest days—because it's part of their jobs, or because they're building it themselves. Others are executives leading companies developing AI tools. She's been watching it unfold closely for years, even if she hasn't used it herself. From her position outside the tech bubble now, she can see two clear camps: Those immersed in AI, excited and moving fast. And those outside that world—more cautious, questioning what it means for real people and communities. Living between those worlds—the fast-paced tech culture and her slower, more grounded hometown—gives her a unique vantage point. She's connected enough to understand the innovation but distant enough to see its costs and consequences. 16:39 The Cost of AI Adoption Miki points out how strange it feels to people in tech that she hasn't used AI. In her Bay Area circles, the idea is almost unthinkable. Miki understands why it's shocking. It's mostly circumstance—her coaching work doesn't require AI. Unlike consultants who "all tell leaders how to use AI," her work is based on real conversations, not digital tools. Her husband, Jackson, also works at a "zero-technology" K–12 school he helped create, so they both exist in rare, tech-free spaces. She admits that's partly luck, not moral superiority, just "tiny pockets of the economy" where avoiding AI is still possible. Robin responds with his own story about adopting new tools. He recalls running Robin's Café from 2016 to 2019, when most restaurants still used paper timesheets. He connected with two young founders who digitized timesheets, turning a simple idea into a company that later sold to a global conglomerate. By the time he sold his café, those founders had retired in their 20s. "I could still run a restaurant on paper," he says, "but why would I, if digital is faster and easier?" He draws a parallel between tools over time—handwriting, typing, dictation. Each serves a purpose, but he still thinks best when writing by hand, then typing, then dictating. The point: progress adds options, not replacements. Miki distills his point: if a tool makes life easier, why not use it? Robin agrees, and uses his own writing practice as an example. He writes a 1,000-word weekly newsletter called Snafu. Every word is his, but he uses AI as an editor—to polish, not to create. He says, "I like how I think more clearly when I write regularly." For him, writing is both communication and cognition—AI just helps him iterate faster. It's like having an instant editor instead of waiting a week for human feedback. He reminds his AI tools, "Don't write for me. Just help me think and improve." When Miki asks why he's never had an editor, he explains that he has—but editors are expensive and slow. AI gives quick, affordable feedback when a human editor isn't available. Miki listens and reflects on the trade-offs. "These are the cost-benefit decisions we all make," she says—small, constant choices about convenience and control. What unsettles her is how fast AI pushes that balance. She sees it as part of a long arc—from the printing press to now—but AI feels like an acceleration. It's "such a powerful technology moving so fast" that it's blowing the cover off how society adapts to change. Robin agrees: "It's just the latest version of the same story, since writing on cave walls." 20:10 The Future of Human-AI Relationships Miki talks about the logical traps we've all started accepting over time. One of the biggest, she says, is believing that if something is cheaper, faster, or easier – it's automatically better. She pushes further: just because something is more efficient doesn't mean it's better than work. There are things you gain from working with humans that no machine can replicate, no matter how cheap or convenient it becomes. But we rarely stop to consider the real cost of trading that away. Miki says the reason we overlook those costs is capitalism. She's quick to clarify – she's not one of those people calling late-stage capitalism pure evil. Robin chimes in: "It's the best of a bunch of bad systems." Miki agrees, but says capitalism still pushes a dangerous idea: It wants humans to behave like machines—predictable, tireless, cheap, and
