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Your dose of thought-provoking insights into the world of Employee Ownership with Barry Horner.

APR 29

#9 Karen Maguire: How Relinea Became Northern Ireland's EOT Pioneer

In this episode of Stake and Soul, Barry speaks with Karen Maguire, founder of Relinea, the Northern Ireland-based manufacturer supplying glass reinforced plastic (GRP) alternatives to the construction sector. Karen built Relinea from a port-a-cabin and a dodgy forklift into a multi-million-pound business, and in March 2022 became the first manufacturing company in Northern Ireland to transition to an Employee Ownership Trust. Karen talks about walking away from M&A meetings that left her feeling "a wee bit dirty," navigating the EOT transition during Covid with no local ecosystem to lean on, and the parts of the journey she got right and wrong. What's covered in this episode Leaving a sales role at a company that kept letting her customers down, and starting Relinea from an old farm shed with no windows.Surviving the 2010 financial crisis with a bag of samples and her first English customer, who is still with Relinea today.The death of Karen's father in 2018 and how it became the catalyst for thinking seriously about succession.Why M&A felt wrong, and the Chain Reaction precedent that hardened her resolve: sold to outside investors, closed within years, 300 jobs lost.Transitioning to an EOT during Covid with no local adviser network and "flying blind" through a process Northern Ireland had barely seen.Paying the full tax-free £3,600 bonus from year one, and why founders should not wait until the deferred consideration is paid to share rewards.Clearing the deferred consideration two years early, and the conversations about life beyond debt-free day she wishes had happened sooner.The identity loss after stepping down, and what she would do differently around founder transition.EMI schemes inside an EOT business, the governance tensions they create, and her concerns about employee protections.Founding Employee Ownership Ireland to build the ecosystem that did not exist when she went through her own transition.Moments to listen out for The kitchen-table conversation and the two questions: what is the worst that can happen, and would I live to regret it if I did not do it.Coming out of M&A meetings feeling "a wee bit dirty" because no one wanted to talk about employees or community.The employee trustee who had never seen a P&L in his life, and the realisation you cannot hand someone the role without the tools.Her grief metaphor for stepping down, and the internal struggle she worked hard to keep out of the business.Quickfire highlights Employee ownership is: creating a system where everybody has a voice, and a right to have that voice heard.Biggest EO surprise: how lonely the journey was, and how exciting it has become as honest conversations about EO start to surface.Confessional: the imposter syndrome of a woman in business who still sometimes thinks Relinea happened more by accident than by design.Book recommendation: Find Your Why by Simon Sinek.Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

1h 9m
APR 16

#8 David Sproxton: Why Aardman Turned Down a Buyout and Gave the Studio to Its People

In this episode Barry speaks with David Sproxton, co-founder of Aardman Animations, the Bristol-based studio behind Wallace and Gromit, Shaun the Sheep, Morph, and Chicken Run. For more than 50 years, David and his co-founder Peter Lord built one of the most beloved creative companies in British history. In 2018, they had the opportunity to sell to a major studio. They chose not to. Instead, they transferred Aardman to an Employee Ownership Trust, handing control to the people who had built it. In this conversation, David talks about what drove that decision, how a creative business holds onto its soul when the financial pressure to sell can be enormous, and what it actually feels like to say "you have control" after four decades at the helm. What's covered in this episode How David and Peter met at school in the mid-1960s, discovered animation through a borrowed 16mm clockwork camera, and sold their first piece of work to the BBC's Vision On for £25.Why Aardman said no to Jeffrey Katzenberg when DreamWorks offered to buy the studio outright, and the deal structure they chose instead.What David observed watching the ad agency Gold Greenlees Trott get absorbed by a US conglomerate, and why that convinced him a trade sale would destroy the thing that made Aardman worth acquiring.The book ‘Beyond the Corporation’ by David Erdal, a 2011 EOA conference talk, and how they spent several years researching the EO model.The John Lewis trust model and why it suited Aardman better than direct shareholding.Monthly financial workshops, bimonthly town halls, and the challenge of communicating financial information.The games department closure, the announcement of forthcoming trading losses, and how transparency in difficult periods is managed.David's view on AI: a powerful tool for administration and search, but one that averages rather than imagines, and one whose generative output is already feeding on its own mediocrity.Moments to listen out for David's account of that first wet Sunday afternoon when he and Peter pulled a clockwork Bolex out of a cupboard and played with paper cutouts, not yet knowing where it was headed.The moment Aardman announced its transition to employee ownership and received hundreds of emails from people inside Disney, DreamWorks, and Sony saying "if only."His description of the away days where he would take questions from the floor and the question that kept coming up: what happens when you and Peter retire?The phrase he used on transition day, borrowed from his time learning to fly gliders: "you have control," and what it cost him emotionally to mean it.His CEO confessional: the Tortoise and Hare feature film that had too many legs on it, that he believes could have been saved, and the goodwill with the crew that took a long time to rebuild after it was cancelled.Quickfire highlights Employee ownership is: the only way forward.Biggest EO surprise: the reaction from people inside the big US studios. Hundreds of emails, all saying the same thing.Leadership insight: at a certain point, you have to stop being a backseat driver. Giving someone control means giving them control, not giving them control with an asterisk.Book recommendation: ‘Beyond the Corporation’: Humanity Working by David Erdal.Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

1h 18m
APR 1

#7 Sam Boustred on Industrial Democracy and Keeping the Soul of a 100-Year-Old Employee-Owned Business

In this episode of Stake and Soul, Barry speaks with Sam, Chair of the Global Members Board at Scott Bader, a global chemical company that became employee-owned in 1951 and remains one of the oldest and most distinctive examples of common ownership in the world. Over nearly 18 years, Sam worked his way through the democratic structures of the business from process operator to community councillor to, almost by accident, Chair of the Global Members Board. In this conversation, he talks about what it means to lead industrial democracy inside a multinational, why common ownership is a fundamentally different concept to employee ownership, and what happens to culture when the flame that made a business special is left to burn without tending. What's covered in this episode How Scott Bader came to be employee-owned in 1951, and why a strike was the catalyst Ernest Bader needed.The difference between employee ownership and common ownership, and why Ernest wanted to dissolve the shares rather than distribute them.How the 60-20-20 profit split works in practice, including the Big Mac index used to distribute bonuses fairly across a global workforce.The role of the Scott Bader Commonwealth as the charitable custodian of the business, and the tension that creates when profitability is under pressure.The challenge of maintaining culture across multiple countries and decades, and what Scott Bader built to address it.The Members Report, the Culture Cafe, and the Membership Connect initiative as tools for keeping democracy visible and lived.The recruitment challenge that comes with a communal reward structure in a competitive talent market.Moments to listen out for Sam's account of growing up next to the factory he promised himself he would never work for.The moment at the Employee Ownership conference when he realised Scott Bader was doing things other businesses thought were exceptional as a matter of course.His description of culture drifting by default rather than design, and what that looks like inside a mature EO business.The regret he chose to share: a salary freeze applied to colleagues in Dubai that stayed in place longer than it should have, and how a colleague's challenge about what Ernest would have wanted, sent him back to the founding texts.Quickfire highlights Employee ownership is: life changing. But it is the start, not the whole thing.Biggest EO surprise: how much people genuinely care. The pride in the name, the legacy, the staying through good times and bad.Leadership insight: in an EO business you are leading owners. Style has to adapt. Those who do not adapt tend not to last.Book recommendation: Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Laloux.This episode covers ground that most EO conversations avoid: what it looks like when the model is old enough to have developed blind spots, and what it takes to keep the founding spirit intact across generations, geographies and leadership changes. Scott Bader has been doing this for over 70 years, and there is still work to do. Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

56 min
MAR 17

#6 Kirsty Dias on Employee Ownership, Purpose-Driven Design and Leading a Creative Studio Through Transition

In this episode of Stake and Soul, Barry speaks with Kirsty Dias, Managing Director of PriestmanGoode, one of the world's leading transport and passenger experience design studios, responsible for landmark projects including the New Tube for London and aircraft cabin interiors for major global airlines. Kirsty joined the studio in 2001 and became a director in 2016, the same year the founding partners transitioned the business to an Employee Ownership Trust. She has led the studio as MD through a decade of significant growth and has experienced EO from every angle: as an employee who received the news, as a trustee director who had to communicate it, and now as the leader responsible for sustaining it. In this conversation, she speaks candidly about what the studio underestimated at the start, why the ownership model only truly came into its own during COVID, and what it actually takes to build a culture of genuine engagement rather than a formal one. This is a thoughtful conversation for founders, leaders and employee-owned businesses navigating the gap between the transaction and the transformation. What's covered in this episode What prompted the founders to explore employee ownership and why a trade sale was not the route they wanted.The experience of receiving the EOT news as an employee, and what was and was not explained at the outset.Why the early years looked more like a benefits package than genuine ownership engagement, and what shifted.How COVID became the moment the model came into its own.The governance structure and how communication between the trust board and main board has been formalised over time.How the three-pillar framework of retain, reward and invest shapes how profit decisions are communicated to the team.The challenge of maintaining culture as the studio scales.Why EO longevity is a credible signal in a long-term, relationship-driven industry.Moments to listen out for The role one external adviser played in setting the expectations of employee ownership at a critical moment.How communication during COVID shifted from one-sided to a genuine exchange, and what that unlocked.Why EO requires dedicated time and consistency, and what happens when it is treated as an afterthought.Kirsty's reflection on significant people leaving and why different does not have to mean worse.Quickfire highlights Employee ownership is: working collaboratively for the best shared outcome.Biggest EO lesson: the time and consistency it demands. You cannot run it on the side.Leadership insight: collaborative, non-hierarchical leadership suits EO. Good ideas come from juniors too.Cultural priority: building a studio where people leave having absorbed the culture, and take it with them.This episode is a grounded account of what EO looks and feels like inside a creative business that did not start with a clear playbook. The conversation is a useful reminder that the transaction is the starting point, not the destination. Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

1h 2m
MAR 3

#5 Adam Arnold on Employee Ownership, Purpose-Driven Leadership and Building a Global Ethical Brand

In this episode of Stake and Soul, Barry speaks with Adam Arnold, CEO of GearForm, the parent company of Nikwax and Paramáo, about leading a purpose-driven outdoor business through its transition to employee ownership. Adam shares his journey from joining the company at 18 on the production line to becoming CEO nearly three decades later. He offers an inside look at how the group evolved into an employee-owned organisation while preserving its commitment to sustainability, ethical manufacturing and long-term stewardship. He discusses the founder’s transition, the realities of leading across continents, the governance structures required in an employee-owned business, and the ongoing work needed to build an ownership mindset across a global workforce. What’s covered in this episode Adam’s journey from apprentice to CEO and the internal progression that shaped his leadership. The growth of Nikwax and Paramáo into global brands operating across the UK, Colombia and North America. Why the founder chose employee ownership and how alternatives such as a management buyout were evaluated. Preparing for transition: leadership development, skills analysis and ensuring the business could succeed beyond its founder. Governance in practice: trust boards, partner councils and creating meaningful employee voice across multiple countries. The complexities of running a global EO business, including cultural differences, benefits structures and communication challenges. Building an ownership mindset and encouraging solution-focused engagement across teams. Balancing deferred consideration payments, reinvestment priorities and partner profit share after the transition. Sustaining purpose through environmental innovation, ethical manufacturing and social initiatives supporting vulnerable communities in Colombia. Moments to listen out for Adam describes his early days on the production line and the roles that kept him engaged for nearly 30 years. The founder’s “tests” designed to ensure the business was ready to thrive without him. How communication and education support employee ownership across different countries and cultures. The leadership shift from control to trust and empowering specialist expertise. Adam’s candid reflections on stress and leadership pressure during the COVID period. Quickfire highlights Employee ownership is: a great way to maintain the core values of a business. Biggest EO surprise: becoming the CEO. Leadership insight: drop the ego, trust expertise and allow people to make decisions. Cultural priority: empowering partners and improving working conditions across the organisation. This episode offers an honest look at the realities of leading through transition while safeguarding a company’s values. Adam’s journey demonstrates how employee ownership demands clarity, patience and consistent communication to take root across cultures and teams. It is a reminder that long-term success is built not only on structure and strategy, but on trust, shared purpose and the willingness to evolve. Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

52 min
FEB 17

#4 Simon Morton on Employee Ownership and Building a Business That Thrives Without You

In this episode of Stake and Soul, Barry speaks with Simon Morton, founder of Eyeful Presentations and author of Employee Ownership: A Guide to Transitioning from Boss to Benefactor, about the real story behind stepping away from a business he spent nearly two decades building. Simon shares an honest look at the emotional and strategic realities of succession, including burnout, failed handovers, leadership lessons, and the mindset shift required to step back from running the business. He explains why employee ownership ultimately became the right path, how he prepared his team for the transition, and what surprised him after stepping back. This is a thoughtful conversation for founders, leaders, and anyone thinking about legacy, succession, and building something that continues to succeed after they step back. What’s covered in this episode Simon’s journey from fintech to founding Eyeful Presentations and discovering the power of storytelling in business communication. The personal and professional catalysts that led him to consider succession and eventual exit. Early succession attempts, lessons learned, and the importance of a gradual and transparent leadership handover. Why employee ownership emerged as the preferred route over trade sale or private equity. The role of culture, community, and trust in building a business capable of transitioning successfully. Communicating the transition: preparing the team, addressing concerns, and ensuring understanding beyond the workplace. Governance in practice: trustee boards, employee voice, and maintaining accountability without micromanagement. Sustaining an ownership mindset and avoiding the trap of treating EO as merely profit sharing. Moments to listen out for The failed managing director handover and the hard lessons it revealed about succession readiness. How the pandemic reshaped Simon’s perception of his business and revealed its true community spirit. The concept of the “magic number” and knowing when you have enough. The moment Simon realised he recognised his business less and less - and why that was a sign of success. Quickfire highlights Employee ownership is: the best business decision Simon ever made. Biggest surprise: the ongoing work required to keep communication clear and engagement high. Recommended reads: Upside Down Management (John Timpson), Good to Great (Jim Collins) and Not Fade Away - How to Thrive in Retirement (Celia Dodd)Employee ownership is often discussed in structural or financial terms. This episode highlights something deeper: the human transition required to let go, trust others, and allow a business to evolve beyond its founder - while remaining true to its purpose. Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

1h 17m
FEB 3

#3 Rethinking Succession in a Creative Agency - A Conversation with Arabella Lewis-Smith

Barry is joined by Bella, founder of Salad, a Dorset-based creative agency built around brand strategy, visual identity, and websites, for a candid conversation about why she chose employee ownership and what it has actually required on the other side. This episode is especially relevant for founders who are thinking about succession and want a route that protects culture, rewards the team, and still keeps the business commercially grounded. What’s covered How Salad grew over 24 years, why they stay consciously small, and what “mindful ambition” looks like in practice. The succession trigger that made Bella and her co-director question the default “grow to sell” path, and what shifted once EO entered the conversation. Why EO felt like a genuine win-win, without pretending it’s a magic wand. What Bella would do differently: choosing advisers, using the EOA as a starting point, and the one thing she wishes she’d done far earlier. The communication reality Bella shares a very honest view of what “good comms” actually means in EO: Why she was advised not to rush and tell the team immediately, and how they handled early questions and anxiety. The importance of repeating information, and adapting to different communication styles (from presentations to one-to-ones). A reminder that EO is not a one-off event, it’s an ongoing cultural investment. Making owner mindset tangible Practical examples of what changed post-transition, including: Sharing financial information with the team (with clear boundaries). Involving the team in key planning and long-term goals, rather than keeping strategy “upstairs”. Quarterly Vision Days designed to help the whole team “look up and look forward” together. The role of beneficiary payments as a meaningful signal, while keeping the culture about more than money. Leadership and succession, unfiltered Bella speaks openly about the tension many founders feel after an EO transition: loving the business, but also wanting the freedom to build a different kind of future. She also shares what Salad is working towards next, including succession planning and a longer-term shift in her own role. Quickfire highlights Employee ownership in one sentence: Bella frames it as an antidote to widening wealth inequality. Biggest surprise: how much she’s valued the EO community. Book recommendation: Radical Candor (for anyone leading through change and feedback). CEO confessional: “I want to leave, but I don’t want to leave.” If you’re exploring employee ownership, this episode will help you think more clearly about the human side of the transition: communication, identity, leadership, and what it takes to keep EO meaningful after the paperwork is done. Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

1h 7m
FEB 3

#2 Protecting Purpose in an Employee‑Owned Business – A Conversation with Rob Haward

Barry is joined by Rob Haward (Riverford) for a practical conversation that links employee ownership with the realities of running a large, values-led organisation, including what has to change in leadership, communication, and culture for EO to actually “work” day-to-day. Riverford’s transition is discussed in the context of protecting purpose long-term (and avoiding the business ending up “in the wrong hands”), while still staying commercially sharp and operationally disciplined. What’s covered in this episode Rob’s route into food and farming, and how those early experiences shaped his values and leadership. The why behind the move to employee ownership, including legacy, purpose protection, and long-term stewardship.How Riverford approached the transition, including exploring other ownership models before landing on an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT).The importance of over-communication, engaging people early, and tackling misconceptions head-on. Governance in practice: Riverford’s democratically elected co-owner council, how it gathers input, and how agendas are shaped. Making EO real beyond the legal structure: listening culture, closing the loop, and building systems that encourage an “owner mindset”.The tension points: decision speed, risk aversion, information flow, and why middle management can be either the blocker or the unlock.Moments to listen out for The long-running internal conversations about ownership (including a memorable board meeting setting).“The Founder’s Wishes” and why documenting purpose and values matters more than most founders realise.Riverford’s continuous improvement approach: “Improve Tomorrow Together (ITT)”, built on lean thinking and designed to turn motivation into action.Quickfire highlights Rob’s take: employee ownership as a “much needed” model that can balance society, planet, and commercial success. Biggest EO surprise: how well the founder handled selling the business while staying positively engaged. Book mention: Turn the Ship Around (as an accessible leadership read relevant to empowerment and engagement). If you’re a business owner exploring employee ownership, this episode gives you a clear view of the operational and leadership work that sits behind the headline benefits, without pretending it’s effortless. Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

1h 12m
FEB 3

#1 A Decade Building an Employee‑Ownership Mindset – A Conversation with Chris McDermott

In this episode of Stake & Soul, Barry sits down with Chris McDermott, former Chair & CEO of Cambridge Nutritional Foods (CNF) and Chair of the UK Employee Ownership Association (EOA), for a candid conversation about what employee ownership looks like in the real world. Chris shares the behind-the-scenes reality of moving from a traditional ownership structure into employee ownership, what surprised him most once they were “properly” on the other side of the transition, and why the work does not stop when the paperwork is done. What’s covered Chris’s unusual career path (including a few pivots) and how it shaped his leadership approach. How employee ownership arrived on his doorstep, plus the early scepticism that changed after seeing EO up close. The shift from “we’ve become employee-owned” to “it finally feels real”, including the role of debt payoff and accountability. A hard-earned lesson on governance: what happens when roles, decision rights, and power centres are not properly codified early enough. Practical insights on building owner mindset, making the intangible tangible, and communicating financial performance without turning every update into a lecture. The people side of employee ownership Chris and Barry also explore the parts EO advocates do not always lead with: Why communication in EO can feel like a bottomless pit (and how they try to handle it). How “voice” works in practice: employee voice groups, a council structure, and how ideas become actions (not just complaints). The tension between being an “owner” and facing the realities of tough commercial decisions when the business needs to change. A big transition is coming Chris reflects on preparing to step down after a decade as CEO, the internal logic behind that decision, and why a clean handover matters, especially in an employee-owned business. Quickfire moments and a leadership read Towards the end, you’ll hear a quickfire section that lands on a simple but meaningful truth. Chris also shares a book that had a genuine impact on how he handled imposter syndrome and high-pressure leadership. If you’re a business owner exploring employee ownership, this one is full of grounded lessons, honest trade-offs, and ideas you can actually take back to your own leadership table. Disclaimer: The following podcast is intended to be of a general nature, will not be suitable for everyone, and should not be treated as a specific recommendation. We recommend taking professional advice before entering into any obligation or transaction. Paradigm Norton Financial Planning Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Our FCA Register number is 455083. Registered in England. Reg No 4220937, VAT Reg. No 918550904.

1h 15m

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Your dose of thought-provoking insights into the world of Employee Ownership with Barry Horner.

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