Sustain SustainOSS
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Sustain brings together practitioners, sustainers, funders, researchers and maintainers of the open source ecosystem. We have conversations about the health and sustainability of the open source community. We learn about the ins and outs of what ‘open source’ entails in the real world. Open source means so much more than a license; we're interested in talking about how to make sure that the culture of open source continues, grows, and ultimately, sustains itself.
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Newsletter
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Episode 224: Ciarán O’Riordan on the EU's Cyber Resiliency Act
Guest
Ciarán O’Riordan
Panelist
Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne
Show Notes
In this episode, host Richard Littauer and co-host Leslie Hawthorne engage with Ciarán O’Riordan, Senior Policy Advisor from Open Forum Europe (OFE), diving into the intricacies of the Cyber Resiliency Act (CRA) and its implications for the Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) community. Ciarán shares his journey from software development to policy advocacy, emphasizing the critical role of policy work in shaping the future of open source. He provides an in-depth analysis of the CRA, highlighting concerns about its initial draft, the involvement of the FOSS community in shaping its final form, and the potential challenges and opportunities it presents. The discussion also touches on other significant legislative developments in Europe, such as the Product Liability Directive and the AI Act, and their potential effects on open source software. Press download now to hear more!
[00:01:25] Ciarán explains how he became a Senior Policy Advisor, his passion for policy work, tracing his journey from a software developer in Dublin to his 20-year career in Brussels focusing on policy advocacy, including his recent position at OFE.
[00:06:08] Leslie asks Ciarán for a summary of the Cyber Resilience Act (CRA) and its specific implications for the free and open source software ecosystem. Ciarán contrasts the initial and final versions of the CR, detailing the changes made, the lightened obligations for free and open source software, and the ongoing compliance challenges for commercial distributions.
[00:11:02] Leslie inquires how software foundation’s responsible for producing commercialized software are impacted by the Cyber Resilience Act. Ciarán explains that the final version of the Act introduces a new category called “Open Source Stewards” for entities like software foundations, which have a reduced set of obligations without fines. He also mentions the timeline for the CRA, stating in will come into force around summertime 2027, after being officially signed.
[00:16:09] Richard asks about the CRA’s impact on individual non-European developers, like himself, who have repositories on platforms like GitHub or GitLab. Ciarán responds that the specifics of how the CRA will affect such developers will become clear once the standards are developed.
[00:17:55] Ciarán clarifies the role of software foundations is to provide services or procedures for compliance, which may vary across different foundations.
[00:19:36] Richard wonders who benefits from this Act, and Ciarán discusses the justification for the CRA, which is cost-based, comparing the cybersecurity costs with compliance costs.
[00:21:31] Leslie asks about the process of creating standards for CRA compliance and how average FOSS developers can influence these standards and questions the best ways for FOSS developers to get involved in influencing the outcomes beneficial to the FOSS ecosystem. Ciarán notes that working on standards and policy is complex and compares it to contributing to software development on short notice.
[00:26:07] Ciarán discusses OFE’s multi-layered structure and the FOSS community list, which serves as a base for information sharing and connection.
[00:27:24] Richard questions the impact CRA on individual developers with numerous dependencies in their projects. Ciarán reassures that there is no immediate cause for panic as the CRA will not come into force until summer 2027 and many details will be clarified in the coming years.
[00:28:39] Leslie shifts the discussion the Product Liability Directive (PLD) and its relevance to the FOSS ecosystem and Ciarán goes in depth about it.
[00:33:36] Find out where you can learn more about Ciarán and OFE on the web.
Quotes
[00:04:58] “We’d love to have better cyber security, especially if it just falls from the sky.”
[00:22:31] “Working on standards and pol -
Episode 223: OSCA 2023 with Mannie William Young on the Python community in Ghana & PyCon Africa
Guest
Mannie William Young
Panelist
Richard Littauer
Show Notes
In this episode, host Richard invites guest Mannie Young from Ghana’s Python community to share his experiences in open source development. Mannie discusses his role as the Executive Director of the Python Software Community in Ghana and his involvement in organizing PyCon Africa. He provides insights into the significant growth of the Python community in Ghana and the various initiatives under it. He also discusses the Nigerian open source community’s vibrancy, the Python community’s development in Ghana, and reflects on his experiences at OSCA and Sustain events. Mannie touches on cultural differences affecting community sustainability and funding opportunities, and he shares insights on how to get involved with PyCon Africa and Python Ghana, highlighting the new PyClubs initiative. Hit download now to hear more!
[00:00:59] Mannie mentions his active contribution to the Python software community and his roles as the Executive Director of Python Ghana and organizer of PyCon Africa.
[00:02:02] Mannie discusses his experience at OSCA Fest 2023, insights from the Sustain Session, as well as Importance of Documentation in Open Source
[00:06:14] Mannie explains the growth of the Python community in Ghana and its various initiatives, like PyLadies Ghana and PyData Ghana.
[00:07:11] There’s a discussion about OSCA’s event in Lagos and the Sustain event. Although Mannie was not part of the organizing team this year, he shares some highlights from OSCA including great talks, diversity, and a welcoming environment. He also tells us about the Sustain workshops he attended, focusing on design and community.
[00:10:04] The conversation shifts to compare the open source communities in Ghana and Nigeria, with an emphasis on social media presence and advocacy.
[00:11:36] Mannie discusses the impact of being reserved on funding and opportunities in the Ghanaian open source community, along with the cultural differences affecting sustainability.
[00:012:30] Richard and Mannie address a recent issue with DjangoCon and the PSF regarding discrepancies in approaches to funding and community support, along with cultural and legal considerations in Africa.
[00:15:33] Richard inquires about how people can get involved with PyCon Africa, PyCon Ghana, and Mannie’s communities. Mannie explains that preparations for PyCon Africa 2024 are underway and provides contact emails and websites.
[00:17:08] Find out where you can follow Mannie and his blog on the web.
Quotes
[00:11:08] “If you don’t blog about things, no one knows what you were doing.”
Links
SustainOSS
SustainOSS Twitter
SustainOSS Discourse
podcast@sustainoss.org
SustainOSS Mastodon
Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
Richard Littauer Mastodon
Mannie Young Website
Mannie Young LinkedIn
An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation (Python Africa)
PyCon Ghana
PyClubs
PyLadies Ghana
PyData Ghana
OSCAfrica
Credits
Produced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Mannie William Young.
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Episode 222: Nathan Schneider on his new book "Governable Spaces: Democratic Design for Online Life"
Guest
Nathan Schneider
Panelist
Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne
Show Notes
In this episode of Sustain, host Richard is joined by Leslie Hawthorne, and features a discussion with guest Nathan Schneider, an assistant professor of media studies and the director of the Media Economics Design Lab at the University of Colorado Boulder, about his new book,”Governable Spaces: Democratic Design for Online Life.” The conversation explores the motivations of the book, which stems from Nathan’s experiences in running online spaces and his realization of the inadequacies in tools available for practicing democracy in these spaces. Richard, Leslie, and Nathan delve into the historical development of online spaces, the challenges in creating democratic governance online, and the potential impact on global democracy. The discussion also touches on open source sustainability, governance failures and potentials in open-source projects such as Git, and the role of protocols in shaping online communities. Additionally, Nathan argues for diverse forms of governance and shares examples of successes in opensource governance. Press download now to hear more!
[00:01:40] Nathan explains the motivation for his book, “Governable Spaces.”
[00:05:24] The discussion dives into the concept of the book with Richard questioning the practical existence of such spaces based on the book’s definition. Nathan confirms the book focusses on the absence of democratic infrastructures in digital lives and the lack of support for cooperatives online.
[00:09:09] Richard relates the discussion on culture and democracy to media archaeology and questions how this relates to open source sustainability. Nathan acknowledges the importance of the topic and brings up the example of Git to discuss absences in open source governance.
[00:13:41] Leslie asks Nathan to elaborate on his views regarding the lack of governance and democratic sharing of responsibilities within the structure that have developed, particularly in open source. Nathan responds by identifying two approaches to this issue. He first addresses the cultural aspect, and then the technical and legal aspects.
[00:16:44] Leslie further inquires whether Nathan has considered in his book that the lack of governance could be due to the backgrounds of early internet designers, who were not from marginalized or vulnerable populations and thus did not prioritize governance structures. He talks about the colonization metaphor in the early internet’s language, specifically the term “homesteading,” and how it reflects a flawed understanding of democracy and governance.
[00:18:18] Nathan mentions Jo Freeman’s essay, “The Tyranny of Structurelessness,” which warns against the absence of explicit governance leading to the rise of implicit governance by those already privileged. He also emphasizes that despite the dominant structures, there are examples of democratic practices in online spaces, especially among non-dominant identity groups.
[00:20:33] Richard questions the robustness of democracy and brings up a point from Nathan’s book that raised some questions to him. He also wonders it was difficult for Nathan to use terms that don’t hold up under scrutiny for his book, and Nathan acknowledges the complexity of the term “feudalism,” and expresses gratitude for medieval governance structures.
[00:24:50] Nathan and Richard discuss the topic of crypto, and Richard appreciates how Nathan’s book puts together the chapter on crypto with transformative justice and brings up that the book doesn’t go deep into the specifics of internet protocols. Nathan expresses a strong interest in protocols as a means of social organization and elaborates on the significance of crypto and blockchain protocols in breaking away from traditional centralized models.
[00:30:30] Leslie asks Nathan about the Fediverse and federated social networking. Nathan shares his positive vie -
Episode 221: Malvika Sharan on the The Turing Way
Guest
Malvika Sharan
Panelist
Richard Littauer
Show Notes
In this episode, host Richard has a conversation with guest Malvika Sharan, a senior research associate and open source community manager at The Turing Way. Malvika gives fascinating insights into the journey and rationale behind The Turing Way, which is a data science guide and community collaborative project, seeking to make data science more open, accessible, and inclusive. The Turing Way is also much more than its curated guides, serving as a space for enthusiasts to exchange ideas and contribute to the project. Richard and Malvika dig deep into the importance of effective recognition for contributions, Malvika’s commitment to financial compensation within the constraints of the system, along with the persistence of volunteerism in open source work. Amid her busy year, Malvika is preparing for this chapter of The Turing Way’s journey to enter an exciting 2024 and 2025 phase as they look to engage more directly with organizations that haven’t yet adopted open source collaborative practices advocated by The Turing Way. Press download not to hear more!
[00:01:17] Malvika explains The Turing Way as a collaborative book project on open science and data science, founded by Kristie Whittaker in 2019, which has evolved significantly with her as co-lead. Also, The Turing Way started as a book on GitHub aimed at making data science more open.
[00:04:09] Richard clarifies that The Turing Way is a Jupyter book, and Malvika discusses the evolution of The Turing Way and its role in advocating for open source practices within data science projects.
[00:05:55] Richard asks why there isn’t a specific guide for open source, and Malvika explains that The Turing Way integrates open source principles throughout and addresses concerns about open practices in sensitive areas.
[00:08:07] Richard inquires about the name, The Turing Way, an Malvika recounts its origin relating to the Alan Turing Institute and the idea of reproducibility.
[00:09:26] The discussion turns to community involvement in The Turing Way. Malvika talks about different types of community events and how individuals become part of the community through collaboration and self-identification.
[00:12:15] The concept of “emergent strategy” from the book by Adrienne Maree Brown is explained as an influence on the community aspect of The Turing Way.
[00:13:13] Richard inquires about the sustainability of The Turing Way as an open source project and its funding and staff structure. Malvika explains that it’s funded by the Alan Turing Institute and discusses the Institute’s support and staff dedicated to the project, including a new project manager.
[00:16:16] Richard asks how The Turing Way collects feedback and demonstrates its impact on sustainability for projects that use it. Malvika shares experiences of community members using The Turing Way to influence their organizations and mentions collaborations like The Environmental Data Science book project.
[00:18:03] Malvika talks about how she launched The Turing Way Practitioners Hub to gather and share evidence.
[00:19:42] Richard questions what it means to adopt The Turing Way, and Malvika clarifies that it refers to adopting the practices of open and collaborative data science.
[00:20:16] They address the breadth versus depth of The Turing Way’s content and the idea of creating sector-specific resources.
[00:24:00] Malvika speaks about outreach through talks and workshops, and highlights the diversity of narratives within The Turing Way community, such as activism for
[00:26:20] Richard notices the lack of Welsh language resources in The Turing Way and wonders why it’s not included. Malvika acknowledges this as a shortcoming due to underrepresentation in the community.
[00:27:19] How does The Turing Way support careers of its contributors? Malvika talks about the importance of recognition, mentioning the -
Episode 220: FOSSY 2023 with Angie Byron
Guest
Angie Byron
Panelist
Richard Littauer
Show Notes
Hello and welcome to Sustain! Richard is in Portland at FOSSY, the Free and Open Source Software Yearly conference that is held by the Software Freedom Conservancy. In this episode, we’re joined by Angie Byron, the Director of Community at Aiven, a leading open source data platform. Angie brings us insights from her role overseeing 11 open source projects, explaining how they provide managed services and security updates for several data projects, and highlighting the importance of prioritizing by impact. She also gives us a peek into their “start at the end” exercise used for goal setting and talks about the challenges of transparency and confidentiality in open source projects. Tune in now and download this episode to hear more!
[00:00:39] Angie explains that Aiven is an open source data platform that provides managed services and security updates for several open source data projects such as Apache Kafka, MySQL, Postgres, Redis, and Grafana.
[00:01:30] Angie shares that she’s the Director of Community at Aiven and has been there for a couple of months. She talks about her role as a meta community manager, overseeing 11 open source projects with a small team.
[00:02:32] There’s a discussion by Angie on the importance of prioritizing by impact and empowering community members, and she explains the “start at the end” exercise she uses for setting their goals, and she explains using the Open Practice Library, which is a division of Red Hat.
[00:07:17] Richard asks about the challenges of balancing transparency and confidentiality in open source projects. Angie shares that they’re working on a public-facing version of a roadmap with an ideation system.
[00:08:23] Angie discusses three main goals of their work: increasing revenue, reducing costs, and mitigating risk.
[00:09:59] Angie explains that she internalizes achievement by helping others grow, thrive, and accomplish their goals, with her success and that of her team tied to the success of others.
[00:11:24] Find out where you can learn more about Aiven’s community efforts, and where you can learn more about Angie online.
Links
SustainOSS
SustainOSS Twitter
SustainOSS Discourse
podcast@sustainoss.org
SustainOSS Mastodon
Richard Littauer Twitter
Software Freedom Conservancy
Open OSS
Angie Byron Tech Blog
Angie Byron Twitter
Angie Byron LinkedIn
Angie Byron Mastodon
Aiven
Open Practice Library
Credits
Produced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Angie Byron.
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Episode 219: Bolaji Ayodeji on Open Source Festival 2023
Guest
Bolaji Ayodeji
Panelist
Richard Littauer
Show Notes
In this episode, host Richard has a conversation with and guest, Bolaji Ayodeji, Software Engineer, Content Creator, Community Engineer, and an organizer of the OSCA (Open Source Community Africa), the biggest open source conference in Africa. Bolaji highlights the Sustain conference at OSCA, emphasizing the recent summit’s wide range of workshops, significant attendance, and the introduction of new working groups, particularly in mental health and data science. The importance of self-care and workload management in the open source community is a key topic, and Bolaji shares some strategies to maintain physical health while functioning in high-demand roles. Looking forward, they are making plans for the 2024 festival with a hope of attracting a more diverse group of attendees! Hit download now to hear more!
[00:01:20] Bolaji tells us OSCA’s been around four years, with the conference itself being three years old, and he mentions the first Sustain in Africa happened in 2020, following the one in Belgium.
[00:02:00] The conversation shifts to the Sustain conference at OSCA, which includes a variety of workshops. Bolaji details this year’s Sustain summit, the duration of the event, the number of working groups, and attendance.
[00:03:25] Bolaji describes the format of the sessions at Sustain, his role with the timer, and the facilitation process.
[00:04:21] Richard appreciates the work put into organizing the event and Bolaji shares his excitement about introducing new working groups focused on areas like mental health and data science.
[00:06:33] Bolaji explains that the reports from the event are being prepared and will be published on the SustainOSS website.
[00:07:19] The conversation turns to the challenge of organizing workshops on burnout and the focus of these sessions. Bolaji talks about the burnout and mental health session, discussing the importance of self-care and managing workload.
[00:09:35] Richard and Bolaji discuss the scale of OSCA and the proportion of attendees who contribute to open source as a full-time job versus a side project.
[00:10:31] Bolaji provides a few tips on maintaining wellbeing while contributing to open source, including prioritizing tasks, having a life outside work, and ensuring rest and relaxation.
[00:12:44] Richard asks Bolaji about any surprises from the Sustain sessions, and he notes that there was a varied interest in different working groups, with more interest in some than others.
[00:14:18] Will there be future events coming up? Bolaji confirms that there will be another Open Source Festival and Sustain Summit in 2024, but no specific details yet.
[00:14:38] If you can’t attend but want to be involved, Bolaji mentions the Open Source Community Africa Discord server where the discussions continue, where the report will be shared, and he talks about volunteering opportunities.
Quotes
[00:06:01] “Sustainability is not just about the project itself, it’s about the people who manage the projects.”
[00:07:37] “You’re already burnt out form your normal job, and then you have to figure how to contribute to open source.”
[00:11:32] “Sometimes you need to touch the grass.”
Links
SustainOSS
SustainOSS Twitter
SustainOSS Discourse
podcast@sustainoss.org
SustainOSS Mastodon
Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
GitHub Sustainers Website
Richard Littauer Mastodon
Bolaji Ayodeji X/Twitter
Bolaji Ayodeji LinkedIn
Bolaji Ayodeji Website
SustainOSS Events
Open Source Community Africa Discord
OSCA Community
Credits
Produced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Bolaji Ayodeji.
Support Sustain
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