105 episodes

Sustain brings together practitioners, sustainers, funders, researchers and maintainers of the open source ecosystem. We have conversations about the health and sustainability of the open source community. We learn about the ins and outs of what ‘open source’ entails in the real world. Open source means so much more than a license; we're interested in talking about how to make sure that the culture of open source continues, grows, and ultimately, sustains itself.



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Sustain SustainOSS

    • News
    • 5.0 • 4 Ratings

Sustain brings together practitioners, sustainers, funders, researchers and maintainers of the open source ecosystem. We have conversations about the health and sustainability of the open source community. We learn about the ins and outs of what ‘open source’ entails in the real world. Open source means so much more than a license; we're interested in talking about how to make sure that the culture of open source continues, grows, and ultimately, sustains itself.



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Newsletter

    Episode 104: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover on Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund

    Episode 104: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover on Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund

    Guest

    Duane O’Brien | Mandy Grover


    Panelists

    Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Ben Nichols


    Show Notes

    Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On today’s episode we have two excellent guests, Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grover. Duane is the Head of Open Source at Indeed and Mandy is a Technical Content Architect III, as well as manages a team within the Technical Content organization at Indeed. They are here to talk about the FOSS Fund and the recently released FOSS Fund report. Duane and Mandy go in detail on the report and expand on who it is for, how to use it, tools they used, and things they’ll be writing about in the second report. We also learn the ups and downs of writing, but more importantly how Duane and Mandy built their friendship and trust in the process of writing this report successfully. Go ahead and download this episode now to learn more!


    [00:03:11] Mandy and Duane fill us in on the FOSS Fund report titled, Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund.


    [00:04:57] We learn more about how the FOSS Contributor Fund started, what it is, and how the response has been so far.


    [00:09:06] Justin wonders if Duane and Mandy ever thought this would become the blueprint, and then we hear the story how the Sentry thing came about.


    [00:16:08] Learn about some new things coming out in the second report.


    [00:19:24] Duane explains how you can still use this report even if your organization is not huge.


    [00:20:56] Richard wonders if you were a coder, how could you make yourself more eligible to be a recipient of funds.


    [00:24:19] Find out about a few of the tools they talk about in the report, one which is called Starfish.


    [00:26:28] Mandy fills us in on how everything went when they released the report and how they set expectations with each other. Duane also brings up about asking maintainers to write things.


    [00:33:54] Find out where you can find this report and where you can find Duane and Mandy online.


    Quotes

    [00:13:56] “We had this moment where we were like, it’s certainly projects, it’s certainly money, it’s certainly all these things, but at the heart of it is people.”


    [00:21:17] “The biggest problem that we don’t talk about is this: You are a single project in a sea of thousands that organizations may depend on.”


    [00:26:48] “We set expectations early, we knew the goal, and we were always there supporting each other and holding each other accountable.”


    [00:33:12] “Let’s temper our expectation of what we want maintainers to do when it comes to documenting things because it’s not easy.”


    Spotlight


    [00:35:15] Justin’s spotlight is Opensourcestories.org.
    [00:35:35] Ben’s spotlights are 24 Pull Requests and The Good Docs Project.
    [00:36:37] Richard’s spotlight is John Hill.
    [00:37:08] Mandy’s spotlight is to watch all movies.
    [00:38:29] Duane’s spotlight is the book, A Psalm for the Wild- Built by Becky Chambers.


    Links


    SustainOSS
    SustainOSS Twitter
    SustainOSS Discourse
    Duane O’Brien Twitter
    Duane O’Brien Linkedin
    Mandy Grover Twitter
    Mandy Grover Twitter (Indeed)
    Mandy Grover Linkedin
    Indeed Open Source
    Investing in Open Source: The FOSS Contributor Fund-(EBOOK)
    Sustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the FOSS Fund Program
    Sustain Podcast-Episode 96: Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies
    Sustain Podcast- Episode 38: Working Group Updates with Justin & Javi
    Sustain Podcast-Episode 101: Nicholas Zakas and ESLint
    FOSS Contributor Fund
    Starfish-GitHub
    Open Source Stories
    24 Pull Requests
    The Good Docs Project
    John Hill
    John Hill Twitter
    Sunset Blvd
    All the President’s Men
    David Lynch movies
    A Psalm for the Wild-Built (Monk & Robot #1) by Becky Chambers


    Credits


    Produced by Richard Littauer
    Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
    Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
    Special Guests: Duane O’Brien and Mandy Grove

    • 40 min
    Episode 103: Samuel Wein on OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry

    Episode 103: Samuel Wein on OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry

    Guest

    Samuel Wein


    Panelists

    Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman


    Show Notes

    Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On today’s episode, we are very excited to have as our guest, Samuel Wein, who is a core developer and Executive Chairman of the OpenMS Foundation, a Post Doc at University of Tuebingen in Germany, and the head of a software consultancy specializing in analysis of RNA using Mass Spectrometry. Samuel fills us in on OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry and how he’s trying to make it better and expand it. He explains more about the governance process, how the funding process is going, training programs he’s done, and an internship program in the works to get more diversity. Samuel shares some great groups to get involved in the open source projects sciences area, and what he would like to change with OpenMS. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more!


    [00:02:14] Samuel is a scientist, so we find out how he ended up being a coder.


    [00:03:27] Samuel explains OpenMS and Mass Spectrometry, and Justin wonders if this was instrumental in the mRNA research from Moderna and the other place that Pfizer teamed up with.


    [00:06:47] Justin wonders how many times Samuel has been trying to get recruited from companies, such as Moderna, since they are probably looking for people like Samuel, and what’s keeping him away from them.


    [00:08:14] Richard wonders what the governance process was like.


    [00:11:09] Samuel has three partnerships for funding right now and Justin wonders if they are his go-to or if he needs to get more funding from different partners.


    [00:13:08] Richard asks Samuel if he can talk about how he’s keeping the project from ending up bending the corporate interest and what it looks like for him.


    [00:14:29] Justin wonders what other revenue streams Samuel has besides his donors and grants and if he has any training programs that he’s put together.


    [00:17:34] Besides documentation, Richard is curious to know if Samuel could think of looking at his organization and then the wider field as a whole of really improving JEDI work, and if there’s anything he’s working on besides that.


    [00:20:00] Samuel explains how people can get involved and what was helpful for him.


    [00:22:17] We find out what Samuel is interested in learning and changing, as well as other things he’s interested in doing with OpenMS.


    [00:24:07] Samuel suggests some groups that have useful to him to join, such as Open Bio, EuBIC-MS, and HUPO PSI.


    [00:25:45] Find out where you can follow Samuel on the internet.


    Quotes

    [00:08:19] “My experience with scientific projects developed in labs is that they unfortunately tend to have a lifecycle that is contingent upon the career path of the core developer.”


    [00:08:45] "There are issues with sustainability and maintainability once the original developer has left.”


    [00:09:39] “[On community organizing in OSS] It’s all volunteer, it’s all passion projects, and you need to steer people towards their passions.”


    [00:16:20] “We’re looking for a Community Manager.”


    [00:22:41] “I would like to convince more scientists of the importance of choosing their software based on it’s openness.”


    Spotlight


    [00:27:23] Justin’s spotlight is BioJS.
    [00:27:56] Richard’s spotlight is _The Wheel of Time _books by Robert Jordan.
    [00:28:45] Samuel's spotlight is Anathem by Neal Stephenson.


    Links


    SustainOSS
    SustainOSS Twitter
    SustainOSS Discourse
    Samuel Wein PhD Linkedin
    Samuel Wein GitHub
    OpenMS
    sam@samwein.com
    Otakon
    Open Bioinformatics Foundation
    EuBIC-MS (European Bioinformatics Community for Mass Spectrometry)
    HUPO-PSI (HUPO Proteomics Standards Initiative)
    BioJs
    The Eye of the World: Book One of The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan
    Anathem by Neal Stephenson


    Credits


    Produced by Richard Littauer
    Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
    Show no

    • 29 min
    Episode 102: Ele Diakomichalis and Radicle

    Episode 102: Ele Diakomichalis and Radicle

    Guest

    Ele Diakomichalis


    Panelists

    Richard Littauer | Eric Berry | Pia Mancini


    Show Notes

    Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We are very excited to have as our guest today, Ele Diakomichalis, who is one of the Co-Founders and one of the core contributors to Radicle. What is Radicle? It’s a decentralized stack for code collaboration that enables developers to collaborate on code, govern code, and fund code in a decentralized way. Ele fills us in more about Radicle, how many people are on the team, how many people use it, the financial commitment to using Radicle, and he explains the three layers to the Radicle stack. Also, we find out Ele’s pipe dream for long-term usage of Radicle and his thoughts on how he thinks he can change the coding space for JavaScript and Ruby coders, and people who want to make open source better. Go ahead and download this episode now to find out more about how to get involved in Radicle!


    [00:01:28] Ele fills us in on what Radicle is and why it’s so awesome. Also, we learn how Radicle is different than using GitHub and then paying people through Open Collective using Ethereum.


    [00:08:39] We learn more about the financial commitment that somebody using Radicle might be obligated to or not obligated to.


    [00:15:29] Richard wonders what the current scope of Radicle is, how many people use it, and how big the team is.


    [00:18:09] What is Ele’s pipe dream for long-term usage of Radicle for the average contributor who doesn’t want anything to do with P2P or Crypto, and how does he think he can change the coding space for JavaScript coders, Ruby coders, or people who are interested in just making open source better and working on stuff?


    [00:22:42] The topic of finding a path for open source creators to capture more value out of their creations through a coin or token is brought up by Pia and she wonders how that’s looking now for Ele with Radicle, as well as challenges of paying or getting paid for value creation in open source.


    [00:32:12] If you want to get involved in Radicle find out where you can go.


    [00:33:25] Find out where you can follow Ele online.


    Quotes

    [00:06:25] “One of the things that we actually do with Radicle is actually leveraging Ethereum for code governance.”


    [00:13:28] “The last thing is basically what we call Radicle Funding, and this is basically our contribution to the open sustainability problem where you, as a maintainer, you can actually raise funds from your supporters, either as donations or in exchange for something within your community.”


    [00:19:17] “The second thing that it’s more of a dream or a hope, but I really feel that what we’re doing with Radicle works is introducing a non-hierarchical model for collaboration.”


    [00:19:57] “We really hope that we’re going to see a lot of these developers actually realizing that if we can also coordinate in a non-hierarchical way and sometimes this actually looks more beautiful.”


    [00:30:56] “Because we think that we need to create new cultural norms. We want to make this a norm that every time that you get paid, more developers get paid and try to create this more cyclical, regenerative, someone would say, open source economy.”


    Spotlight


    [00:34:31] Eric’s spotlights are iPad mini 6, Gitcoin and Kevin Owocki, and the immense value that Richard Littauer provides to the community, as well as his videos to check out on YouTube called, “Francis Bacon and Eggs.”
    [00:36:09] Pia’s spotlight is the Lex Fridman Podcast.
    [00:36:50] Richard’s spotlight is Nassar Hayat.
    [00:37:29] Ele’s spotlights are Abbey Titcomb, Nassar Hayat, IPFS, SSB, and other decentralized workers.


    Links


    SustainOSS
    SustainOSS Twitter
    SustainOSS Discourse
    Eleftherios Diakomichalis Twitter
    Eleftherios Diakomichalis Linkedin
    Elefttherios Diakomichalis Website
    Radicle
    Radicle Community
    iPad mini
    Kevin Owocki

    • 39 min
    Episode 101: Nicholas Zakas and ESLint

    Episode 101: Nicholas Zakas and ESLint

    Guest

    Nicholas C. Zakas


    Panelists

    Richard Littauer


    Show Notes

    Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. You may know my guest today, Nicholas Zakas, because he is the creator of a very popular JavaScript project called ESLint, which has been downloaded 13 million times each week. Nicholas is an independent software engineer, consultant, and coach, and has written numerous books including, Understanding ECMAScript 6, The Principles of Object-Oriented JavaScript, and Maintainable JavaScript. With over sixteen years of web application development experience and speaking at conferences around the world, he’s putting his focus now on mentoring and coaching the next generation of JavaScript engineers. Nicholas brings us on his journey sharing his story of becoming a developer, starting ESLint, and what he’s doing to make sure everybody in the ESLint community is able to benefit from the money they are bringing in. We also learn more about an interesting blog post he wrote, how contributors get paid, and other open source projects ESLint donates to. Why should you use ESLint? Go ahead and download this episode now to find out!


    [00:01:39] Nicholas shares his story with us starting out as a developer and how it led him to starting ESLint.


    [00:03:01] What did Nicholas mean when he said he fell in love with JavaScript?


    [00:03:47] We find out how long ESLint has been around, how many people are working full-time, and how he keeps himself in funds.


    [00:05:04] Nicholas talks about the Open Collective and GitHub sponsors they set up for donations.


    [00:07:42] Richard brings up a blog post Nicholas wrote on, “How to talk to your company about sponsoring an open source project” and he tells us what iterations he’s gone through with ESLint.


    [00:10:59] Nicholas talks about the difficulties in multi-tasking, and he tells us the next thing they tried with paying a straight per hour rate for team members.


    [00:17:15] Richard wonders where Nicholas came up with the less than standard rate for hourly work which is not really a Silicon Valley salary, and he also tells us how many hours per month he is paying out and for the people that have been paid, how they feel about it, and having no caps on what people can make.


    [00:20:43] Nicholas mentions using Tidelift, how much money it brings in, and the money going to TSC members.


    [00:22:04] Find out what else Nicholas is doing with the money besides paying contributors. He mentions several other open source projects they are donating to, and one person in particular he mentions is Sindre Sorhus.


    [00:27:58] Richard wonders more about the governance process and how Nicholas feels about it.


    [00:31:52] Nicholas dives deep as he explains three things that would convince him that ESLint would be a project that he would want to use.


    [00:34:20] We learn some future plans for what Nicholas would do with funds to make the project more sustainable.


    [00:38:09] Find out where you follow Nicholas online.


    Quotes

    [00:03:26] “And I see ESLint as really, this will sound cheesy, as an act of love on your code that we aren’t trying to change what it does.”


    [00:04:24] “We found that people who have kids are looking for something to do after the kids go to bed.”


    [00:05:52] “And so, if that is your starting point where even folks who are just coming right out of college are getting 120k each year, that means that’s the minimum that you need to raise in order to hire someone full-time if they’re in a major metropolitan area in the United States.”


    [00:22:17] “The first thing is we have what’s called a contributor pool, which is money that we set aside every month to pay non-team members for contributions to ESLint.”


    [00:22:46] “Generally, anything that is of benefit to the project we will potentially pay you for.”


    [00:24:43] “So, one of the things that we were looking at i

    • 42 min
    Episode 100: Sustain #100: Only Hosts, on who we are, where we came from, and where we're going

    Episode 100: Sustain #100: Only Hosts, on who we are, where we came from, and where we're going

    Guest

    Paul Bahr | DeAnn Bahr


    Panelists

    Richard Littauer | Allen “Gunner” Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Pia Mancini | Eriol Fox | Ben Nichols


    Show Notes

    Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Cue the horns and balloons folks because today’s episode is extremely special. We are celebrating our 100th episode!! Can you believe it? We are so fortunate to have everyone with us, including our editors, as our conversations takes us back to the origins of this podcast and how it all began. We find out a little bit more about each panelist, and thoughts about the future of Sustain and plans going forward. The topic of having more controversy on this podcast is discussed, and thoughts on how each panelist sees the impact this podcast has made on open source sustainability and whether or not we can measure it. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more and thank you for celebrating this momentous event with us!


    [00:00:58] We start by getting to know the background of each panelist, where they work, and what they do.


    [00:08:25] Since Richard always states in the beginning of every episode, “Where are we going,” Paul asks where Sustain is going as an organization and if they have any future plans.


    [00:13:49] Eriol shares some thoughts with us about the future of Sustain Open Source Design.


    [00:16:12] Richard brings up wishing there was more controversy on the Sustain podcast and the panelists share more.


    [00:21:07] Pia talks about some things going back to the origins of this podcast.


    [00:23:40] We hear from everyone on how they see the impact that this podcast has made on open source sustainability, and if they think we can measure open source sustainability.


    Quotes

    [00:15:24] “I really do think that the time for design as a topic within open source has never been more rich, involved, and interesting because of the amount of designers understanding what open source is in all of its different flavors and varieties. And, wanting to participate in new ways or old ways or different ways and doing a lot of really interesting stuff lately. So, I really do think it’s really a special time for designers in open source from what I can tell.”


    Spotlight


    [00:32:37] Gunner’s spotlight is OpenNews.
    [00:33:02] Paul’s spotlight is Descript.
    [00:33:42] Eric’s spotlight is Firefox.
    [00:34:04] Justin’s spotlight is Gregor Martynus.
    [00:34:20] Ben’s spotlight is The National Museum of Computing.
    [00:35:07] Pia’s spotlight is SMAT (Social Media Analysis Toolkit).
    [00:35:38] Richard’s spotlight is “Bird Facts with Richard Littauer.”


    Links


    SustainOSS
    SustainOSS Twitter
    SustainOSS Discourse
    Ford Foundation
    Alfred P. Sloan Foundation
    Committing To Cloud Native Podcast
    Reblaze
    Curiefense
    Sustain our Docs (Pilot Episode)
    Sustain Open Source Design Podcast
    Open Collective
    OpenNews
    Descript-GitHub
    Firefox
    Gregor Martynus GitHub
    Light Years Ahead | The 1969 Apollo Guidance Computer-YouTube
    Social Media Analysis Toolkit (SMAT)
    All About Birds-Cooper’s Hawk


    Credits


    Produced by (Richard Littauer)
    Edited by Paul M. Bahr at (Peachtree Sound)
    Show notes by DeAnn Bahr (Peachtree Sound)
    Special Guest: Paul and DeAnn Bahr.
    Support Sustain

    • 37 min
    Episode 99: Matt Mankins and giving Kudos to OSS maintainers

    Episode 99: Matt Mankins and giving Kudos to OSS maintainers

    Guest

    Matt Mankins


    Panelists

    Richard Littauer | Ben Nichols


    Show Notes

    Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are very excited to have as our guest, Matt Mankins, joining us from Barcelona. He is a Fellow at Mozilla, currently working on advancing open monetization strategies for the web. He previously worked at the publisher Condé Nast, where he led global monetization engineering efforts for the company’s iconic brands and was the CTO of FastCo magazine. He’s also the Founder of numerous companies such as Lorem Ipsum Books, SMTP.com, Vert, and Fair Tread. On this episode, Matt fills us in on his journey as a Fellow at Mozilla and his ideas about alternative ways to fund the web, which led him to the idea of Kudos, that came out of thinking about payments. We learn what his main goal is right now with Kudos, the hardest problem he’s facing as he develops Kudos, and what he’s trying to accomplish before his Fellowship ends. Also, find out what Matt means when he said, “Kudos are about the creation, not the creator.”


    Go ahead and download this episode now to find out much more!


    [00:02:20] Matt fills us in on the history of the Lorem Ipsum Bookstore.


    [00:03:57] We learn what Matt is doing at Mozilla and he explains Interledger.


    [00:07:00] Matt describes what Kudos is and how it works, since that is the main thing he is working on now.


    [00:12:50] Matt explains how Kudos is in the philosophy stage right now and the implementation is up to the various people that implement this.


    [00:15:22] Flattr is brought up in conversation, and Matt explains something he did called “in-a-moon.”


    [00:17:27] Richard wonders how Matt sells this to companies and how does he get them involved in wanting to invest in Kudos, and Matt shares a goal he has right now.


    [00:20:02] Matt shares what he thinks is the hardest problem he’s facing right now as he develops Kudos.


    [00:21:52] Ben wonders if Matt is looking for particular communities that might be interested in experimenting and Matt shares a dream of his with us.


    [00:24:09] We find out how Matt is working with the Mozilla communities and how he’s about to be in the “build it phase” and the “promote it a little bit more phase.” He also tells us something he’s hoping to do in the implementation phase with Facebook and Kudos.


    [00:30:44] Find out where you can follow Matt and his work online.


    Quotes

    [00:11:31] “In my mind, this is not just supporting Babel or Henry, but you’re supporting all of the contributors that could number in the thousands or tens of thousands.”


    [00:22:21] “One of my dreams is that, as a creator, I can just go do my creation and money will show up in my bank account as I do good work to society.”


    Spotlight


    [00:31:11] Ben’s spotlight is Open PHD Guiding.
    [00:31:56] Richard’s spotlight is the Scottish Rail System.
    [00:32:43] Matt’s spotlight is a GitHub project called libfood.


    Links


    SustainOSS
    SustainOSS Twitter
    SustainOSS Discourse
    Matt Mankins Twitter
    Matt Mankins Blog
    Matt Mankins Linkedin
    Babel
    JWT
    Interledger Foundation
    In-a-Moon Overview by Matt Mankins
    Flattr
    The Hacker Milieu as Gift Culture
    Open PHD Guiding
    ScotRail (Scotland’s Railway)
    libfood-GitHub
    Flossbank
    The Digital Infrastructure Fund Podcast Hosted By Richard Littauer
    The Faithful-The King, The Pope, The Princess- Laemmle Theatres
    Sustain Podcast-Episode 96-Chad Whitacre and how Sentry is giving $150k to their OSS Dependencies


    Credits


    Produced by [Richard Littauer] (https://www.burntfen.com/)
    Edited by Paul M. Bahr at [Peachtree Sound] (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)
    Show notes by DeAnn Bahr [Peachtree Sound] (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)
    Special Guest: Matt Mankins.
    Support Sustain

    • 34 min

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