Terribly and Terrifyingly Normal‪?‬ Nicola Quaedvlieg and Alette Smeulers

We all hope that the wars all around the world end. But what happens when they do? How should perpetrators be punished? How should victims be compensated? And what should be done to avoid a relapse into violence? We ask those questions to Professor Stephan Parmentier. He is an expert in transitional justice from the University of Leuven. With him, we discuss examples such as Nazi Germany, Spain, and South Africa. The examples show, that there are right and wrong ways of handling post-conflict situations.

There seems to be an abundance of them: bad leaders. That can be dangerous, especially when they have lots of power. But what makes a bad leader? And how can we understand them? According to Barbara Kellerman, you have to understand the system around bad leaders, including their followers. She highlights this by using examples such as Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, and Adolf Hitler.

Biljana Plavšić: a respected biologist, high-ranking politician, and a convicted female war criminal. But despite her role in the war in former Yugoslavia, she says she is innocent and many Serbs see her as a hero. How is that possible?

We discuss it with Associate Professor Olivera Simic. She met Plavšić multiple times over the course of multiple years. Olivera tells us more about these interactions and about the person behind the crimes.

Perpetrators of mass atrocities can be victims of trauma. What does this tell us about perpetrators specifically and human nature more generally? How does such trauma develop? And should we even be concerned about perpetrator trauma? In the final episode of season two of Terribly and Terrifyingly Normal?, we discuss the concept of perpetrator trauma and the associated moral dilemmas together with Bart Nauta. He is currently doing his Ph.D. on the topic.

Genocide is often referred to as the crime of crimes, but what is its legal definition? And how will the recent genocide cases against Israel and Russia at the International Court of Justice impact the conflicts that the countries are involved in? We discuss these and more questions with genocide scholar Professor Caroline Fournet. She outlines the limitations of the genocide definition, possible differences in how the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court use the term genocide, and why the ruling of these courts can be useful, even when it's not visible right away.

Ervin Staub is one of the most important scholars in genocide and altruism studies throughout the past decades. Now that he is 85 years old, he looks back on his most important work and shares how the field has changed throughout his career. Also, he gives advice to aspiring scholars and talks about how his dangerous childhood during the Second World War has inspired his work.