Test. Optimize. Scale.

Digital Niche Agency

Listen as industry leaders and pioneers share their insights and experiences of growing their businesses to scale using marketing. Find out what to test, what to optimize, and when to scale as they speak with Jason Fishman, SVP Digital Strategy, DNA - Digital Niche Agency.

  1. 3天前

    EP. 241:Jeff Borschowa - Cloning Your Top Clients Creates a Powerful Referral Network

    Most founders chase cold leads while their strongest growth channel sits untouched, the clients they already love. Referral expert Jeff Borschowa shows how to turn your top clients into a referral network that brings you more of the same. On this episode of Test. Optimize. Scale., Jeff Borschowa joins host Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), to break down how real referral partnerships get built. Jeff grew his professional services firm by doubling it three years in a row with no ad spend, all from a handful of strong referral relationships. He shares how to find the right partners, how to ask without being pushy, why the most trusted networkers avoid referral fees, and a simple top-10-client exercise you can run this week. What you will learn: - Why referred clients stay longer, spend more, and trust you faster - How to spot a good referral partner with the lunch test - Where to find partners by looking upstream from your clients - How to clone your top three or four clients - How to network at a conference without a booth - Conversation starters that work even if you are an introvert - Whether to pay referral fees, and what they really cost you - The top-10-client call that restarts your referrals Chapters: 00:00 Why most founders ignore referrals 01:57 Doubling a business 3 years straight with no ad spend 05:30 Who makes a good referral partner, the lunch test 08:33 Upstream vs downstream, where to find partners 11:37 The shortcut, clone your best clients 13:00 Networking at a conference without a booth 15:46 Conversation starters for introverts 21:30 Getting partners to send you more referrals 32:23 Should you pay referral fees 37:55 The charity donation trick and your chamber 40:11 The first test, call your top 10 clients 45:42 How to scale referral partnerships 47:18 Where to find Jeff Mentioned in this episode: The Go-Giver and Endless Referrals by Bob Burg Connect with Jeff Borschowa: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-borschowa/ Pharos Business Services: https://pharosbusiness.com Podcast: The Lighthouse Sessions About the show: Test. Optimize. Scale. is hosted by Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), an investor and customer acquisition agency. Each episode features operators and founders on what to test, what to optimize, and when to scale. Subscribe for new episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@DigitalNicheAgency/ New here? Start with this one: https://youtu.be/JTB2Nh3NMec?si=5oz4oX4k2W-WYZIY #ReferralMarketing #Networking #BusinessGrowth

    51 分钟
  2. 6月19日

    EP. 240: Hiten Sonpal - The Playbook Behind the #1 Reg CF Campaign of 2025

    Hiten Sonpal is the CEO of RISE Robotics and a robotics industry veteran with over 20 years of experience. He helped generate $2B in revenue and ship 9M units at iRobot, and now leads the company behind the Beltdraulic system, a patented fluid-free alternative to traditional hydraulics that operates at 75% efficiency versus hydraulics' 25%. In this episode, Hiten covers the technology, the commercialization strategy, the defense contracts, and the crowdfunding playbook that made RISE Robotics the #1 Regulation Crowdfunding campaign of 2025 according to KingsCrowd. What We Cover: - How robots deployed at Ground Zero on 9/11 shaped Hiten's entire career - Why hydraulic systems are 75% inefficient and what that costs operators every day - How Beltdraulic enables drive-by-wire control and fully autonomous heavy machinery - Predictive maintenance: how RISE monitors belt health in real time to eliminate unplanned downtime - The MVP framework: desirability, feasibility, and viability for deep tech products - Why mid-market customers beat enterprise for early-stage startups - The Tesla stepping stone strategy: start niche, expand to adjacent markets - RISE's first commercial customer in oil and gas and the Air Force $3M contract extension - How RiISE raised $5M from over 2,500 investors and was named the #1 Reg CF campaign of 2025 by KingsCrowd - The three-channel marketing approach: retargeting, new investor acquisition, and earned media - Why crowdfunding investors are also becoming product customers - What founders need to know before launching a Reg CF campaign Connect with Hiten Sonpal: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hiten-sonpal/ RISE Robotics: https://www.riserobotics.com/ Invest: https://invest.riserobotics.com/ Subscribe to Test. Optimize. Scale. for weekly conversations on growth marketing, business strategy, and what is actually working right now. CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:30 - How Hiten got into robotics as a kid in India 4:00 - 9/11 and the robots deployed at Ground Zero 7:00 - iRobot: $2B in revenue and 9M units shipped 9:00 - Why robotics companies fail to make it from research to commercialization 11:00 - The MVP framework: desirability, feasibility, and viability 15:00 - Why mid-market beats enterprise for deep tech startups 18:00 - The hydraulics problem: 25% efficiency and unpredictable failures 22:00 - How Beltdraulic works and why it enables machine autonomy 25:30 - Fluid-free: predictive maintenance and the end of unplanned downtime 28:00 - Rise's first commercial customer in oil and gas 31:00 - Scaling strategy: the Tesla stepping stone approach 34:00 - The Air Force $3M contract extension for munitions handling 36:30 - Why Rise chose Reg CF over traditional VC 40:00 - Testing the waters: $800K in interest in Q4 2024 42:00 - The $5M raise: what worked and what surprised them 45:00 - The three marketing channels behind the campaign 49:00 - 20x ROAS and how they think about spend efficiency 52:00 - What founders should do before launching a crowdfunding campaign 55:00 - Where to find Rise Robotics and how to invest

    49 分钟
  3. 5月29日

    EP. 239: Jeff Coleman - How One Messaging Change Lifted Conversion Rates by 7%

    -Jeff Coleman has been running Google Ads campaigns since 2004, back when clicks cost 25 cents and keywords were king. In this episode, Jeff breaks down exactly how search advertising has changed, what most campaigns are getting wrong right now, and the proven approach his team uses to build consistent lead engines for service businesses. If you are spending money on Google Ads or thinking about it, this one will save you a lot of wasted budget. What We Cover: - Why persona research matters more than keyword research before you ever launch - How to use AI to pull out what your existing customers actually value about your business - The messaging shift that lifted one client's click-through rate by 2-3% and conversion rate by 6-7% - Why Google's "exact match" is not what it used to be and how to protect your budget Negative keywords: why top campaigns have 1,000+ and what happens when you skip this step - The conversion tracking mistake that trains Google to send you the wrong leads - A/B testing timelines, how many ad variants to run, and when you have enough data - Landing page fundamentals that move conversion rates - How to scale Google Ads spend without destroying your cost per lead - Google vs. Microsoft Ads and when each makes sense - Real benchmarks: click-through rates, cost per lead, and landing page conversion rates for 2026 Connect with Jeff Coleman: Website: factorfour.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffcoleman21/ Connect with Digital Niche Agency: Website: www.digitalnicheagency.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digital-niche-agency/ Subscribe to Test. Optimize. Scale. for weekly conversations on growth marketing, business strategy, and what is actually working right now.

    53 分钟
  4. 5月22日

    EP. 238: Jack Hoss - How Real Estate Investors Are Using AI to Flip Houses

    Jack Hoss is the owner of RealDealCrew and host of the RealDealCast podcast, with over 850 episodes recorded. In this episode, Jack breaks down how he flips houses in the Fargo/Moorhead market, how he uses AI to underwrite multifamily deals, and the local SEO strategy that keeps his business visible and competitive online. If you're a real estate investor, operator, or entrepreneur looking to put AI to work in your business, this one is packed with practical takeaways you can use right now. What We Cover: - Jack's house flipping approach in Fargo/Moorhead targeting 250-300k ARV properties - How he builds every deal around a 20% return target - Using AI to underwrite multifamily properties faster and smarter - The AI phone receptionist setup that handles inbound calls automatically - Google Business Profile and Bing Business Profile as a local SEO foundation - How Jack uses Claude Projects to get consistent outputs and avoid AI slop - Why he recommends Claude's Cowork feature and OpenAI Codex - Lessons from 850+ podcast episodes on what actually moves the needle Connect with Jack Hoss: RealDealCast Podcast:  @RealDealCast   RealDealCrew: https://realdealcrew.com/ Connect with Jason Fishman: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jafishman/ Connect with Digital Niche Agency: Website: www.digitalnicheagency.com Subscribe to Test. Optimize. Scale. for weekly conversations on growth marketing, business strategy, and what is actually working right now. CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:30 - Meet Jack Hoss and Real Deal Crew 4:00 - House flipping in the Fargo/Moorhead market 8:30 - Targeting 250-300k ARV and why 20% returns is the number 13:00 - Using AI to underwrite multifamily properties 18:00 - The AI phone receptionist setup 22:30 - Local SEO: Google Business Profile and Bing Business Profile strategy 27:00 - Claude Projects and how to avoid AI slop 32:30 - Claude Cowork and OpenAI Codex recommendations 37:00 - Lessons from 850 podcast episodes 41:00 - Where to find Jack

    52 分钟
  5. 5月15日

    EP. 237: Kevin Cahill - Daily Actions to Grow Your Real Estate Business

    Most real estate agents are grinding for now buyers and now sellers. The agents who actually build wealth are doing something completely different every single day. Kevin Cahill has been a managing broker since 1999, recruited and trained thousands of agents across multiple states, co-founded REALean Real Estate (saving sellers over $4 million in commissions), merged into eXp Realty, and built Realty Funnels, a SaaS marketing and automation platform designed to help agents attract sellers and scale with intelligent systems. In this episode: The 6-12-18-6 daily action framework every agent (and entrepreneur) should follow Why top-of-funnel awareness is your insurance policy for future years of success How to position yourself so clients think of you the moment a real estate need arises The automated 2-year follow-up campaign inside Realty Funnels and how it works Why niche down to grow rich applies to every service business How to do a mindset and environment audit that actually moves the needle Time blocking, calendar discipline, and the rule: if you must erase you must replace How to scale through time leverage and geographic reach Why direct response marketing changed everything for Kevin early in his career Connect with Kevin: Website: realtyfunnels.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/realestatebrokerstrategist/ YouTube: youtube.com/@realtyfunnels About Kevin Cahill: Kevin Cahill brings nearly three decades of experience across every layer of residential real estate. Beginning his career in 1999, he has built a track record spanning top-tier home sales, multi-office brokerage leadership, and proptech innovation. He has recruited, trained, and managed thousands of agents across multiple states and co-founded REALean Real Estate alongside his wife Lisa Cahill, CPA. In 2023 they merged their brokerage operations into eXp Realty. Kevin also co-founded Realty Funnels, a SaaS platform helping agents attract home sellers and scale with smart marketing systems. About Test. Optimize. Scale.: Hosted by Jason Fishman, Test. Optimize. Scale. is the podcast for entrepreneurs, marketers, and founders who want to grow smarter. Every episode breaks down the strategies, frameworks, and real-world lessons behind successful brands, campaigns, and capital raises. CHAPTERS 0:00 Introduction 1:14 Kevin's background: from food service to real estate since 1999 2:56 What good customer service actually looks like in 2026 5:28 How to become top of mind before clients are ready to buy or sell 8:14 "My success is in direct proportion to the number of people who think of me" 9:51 The full marketing funnel in real estate: awareness through advocacy 11:34 Why top-of-funnel awareness eliminates the lead roller coaster 12:57 Branding versus direct response and why you need both 15:08 Showing up every day and putting in the reps 17:43 Why now is the best time to grow a business with digital tools 19:24 The 6-12-18-6 daily action framework explained 23:17 What happens when agents commit to the 6-12-18-6 28:07 Realty Funnels and the automated 2-year follow-up campaign 31:14 Four emails a month: seasonal and educational messaging 32:12 Why 90% of salespeople never follow up (and where the deal actually happens) 33:15 Niche down to grow rich: picking your ideal client avatar 37:25 Test, optimize, scale applied to real estate 40:17 Mindset and environment audit 41:55 Time blocking and calendar discipline 43:44 If you must erase you must replace 44:02 Auditing energy drains and staying in your strength zone 47:35 How to find mentors and coaches who are a few steps ahead 51:09 Scaling through time leverage and geographic reach 54:06 Where to find Kevin and final thoughts 55:30 Why direct response marketing changed everything early in Kevin's career

    59 分钟
  6. 5月5日

    EP. 236: Tom Ruwitch - Why Your Marketing Repels Prospects Instead of Attracting Them

    Most marketing fails not because of the platform, the budget, or the targeting. It fails because the story is feeble. Tom Ruwitch is the founder of Story Power Marketing and Implementum. He co-founded Sports Huddle in the late 90s, growing it from 2 to 85 people in 18 months and raising $5.5M in venture capital before exiting. He then founded MarketVolt, an email marketing software and agency he ran for 19 years before selling in 2019. Today he helps businesses build story-powered content that attracts, engages, and converts. In this episode: Why most marketing repels prospects instead of attracting them The three E's: Empathize, Envision, Enable The PLAN framework: Promise, Lesson, Anecdote, Next Step Why boring, info-dump content is the number one headwind for business growth The difference between brand marketing and direct response and why you need both How the Honda Super Bowl ad added 225,000 Facebook followers in one week How to build story-powered content at scale using AI without falling into the mushy middle How storytelling applies to investment campaigns, capital raising, and community building Download a free PDF of Tom's book Story Power Marketing: yourgiftfromtom.com/jason More resources and free tools: storypowermarketing.com Strategy, tech, and team: implementum.net About Tom Ruwitch: For nearly a quarter of a century, Tom has helped businesses attract leads, engage prospects, close sales, and maximize relationships. He founded MarketVolt in 2001, one of the earliest email marketing platforms and agencies in the industry, and ran it for 19 years before selling. He now leads Story Power Marketing, where he helps businesses discover, power up, and scale their core business story across every channel. Follow Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomruwitch/ Check out his website: https://storypowermarketing.com/ About Test. Optimize. Scale.: Hosted by Jason Fishman, Test. Optimize. Scale. is the podcast for entrepreneurs, marketers, and founders who want to grow smarter. Every episode breaks down the strategies, frameworks, and real-world lessons behind successful brands, campaigns, and capital raises. Subscribe:https://www.youtube.com/@DigitalNicheAgency Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digital-niche-agency Website: digitalnicheagency.com CHAPTERS 0:00 Introduction 1:02 Tom's background: Sports Huddle, $5.5M raised, 85 employees in 18 months 3:25 Building one of the first email marketing agencies in 2001 5:30 The number one headwind for business growth: feeble content 7:47 Stop talking about yourself: putting the focus on the prospect 10:00 The three E's: Empathize, Envision, Enable 12:10 Using story to guide a prospect through a buying journey 13:00 The kitchen contractor and the mother-in-law story 17:52 How story-powered marketing works across digital channels 20:29 Using indirect storytelling to let prospects project themselves 22:00 Why the human brain connects with stories: the John Wick example 24:11 Where brands get it wrong with storytelling 26:18 Stop overcomplicating it: the biggest storytelling mistake 27:30 Branding versus direct response: the Goodyear Blimp problem 29:20 What good direct response marketing actually looks like 32:01 Community building and storytelling in investment campaigns 34:14 The Honda Super Bowl ad and 225,000 new followers in one week 40:06 The PLAN framework: Promise, Lesson, Anecdote, Next Step 44:00 The executive coach delegation story: before and after done right 48:49 How to test and optimize your stories over time 52:12 How story powers content at scale 56:09 Eugene Schwartz: copy is not written, it is assembled 58:54 Where to find Tom and get the free book

    1 小时 3 分钟
  7. 4月21日

    How to Earn the Exit You Want | Ep. #235 with Nick Avaria | Test. Optimize. Scale.

    90% of agencies never sell, and most owners who do sell hate the price they get. This episode breaks down the boring work that separates the rare agencies that actually exit well from the ones that underperform. Our guest Nick Avaria is the founder of Agency Acquisitions out of Vancouver, Canada. His goal is to help reward people in agencies for their hard work, whether they're agency owners or employees. He developed "The Agency Economics Thesis" that has scaled multitudes of successful companies.  www.agencyacquisitions.io | LinkedIn:   / nickavaria   What you'll learn: →Why the best-run agencies are the ones about to be sold, and how to build that way on purpose. →The churn math that can double or quadruple your top line without adding a single new client. →What actually separates the 3-in-10,000 agencies that reach $10M in revenue. →The 100-day client onboarding philosophy that builds habitual trust. →The "bathtub effect" quietly killing your retention between sale and first monthly meeting. →The three types of insights every B2B client needs, and why missing one gets you fired. →The $100 pen problem and why your best work still loses the client. Chapters: 00:00 Intro 01:00 Meet Nick Avaria 02:00 The #1 Rule: Run It Like You're Selling It 04:00 Work On the Business, Not In It 06:00 Escaping the Adrenaline Junkie Trap 08:00 Growth Thresholds: What to Let Go at Each Level 09:00 Why Only 1 in 10 Agencies Actually Sell 11:00 Why Owners Let Their Agencies Slowly Die 12:00 The Three Levers of Valuation 14:00 The Churn Math That Doubles Your Revenue 17:00 Only 3 in 10,000 Agencies Hit $10M 18:00 Middle Management: The Boring Work Nobody Does 22:00 The Surf Trip: What Real Ownership Looks Like 25:00 Why Churn Spikes When You Scale 27:00 The Power of Quarterly Strategic Reviews 28:00 The Three Types of Insights Clients Need 30:00 Why B2B Buyers Aren't Logical 31:00 The 100-Day Onboarding Philosophy 35:00 The Bathtub Effect 38:00 The $100 Pen Problem — Test, Optimize, and Scale is hosted by Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency. New episodes every week covering digital marketing, growth, and entrepreneurship. Subscribe: @digitalnicheagency   Instagram: digitalnicheagency   LinkedIn: digital-niche-agency   #AgencyLife #MarketingAgency #Entrepreneurship #BusinessExit #ClientRetention #SaaSMarketing #BusinessGrowth #TestOptimizeScale

    41 分钟
  8. 4月10日

    EP #234- August Biniaz: Why the Inferior Product with Better Marketing Always Wins

    Most people think the best product wins. August Biniaz disagrees, and he's built a multi-million dollar real estate private equity firm to prove it. August is the Chief Investment Officer and co-founder of CPI Capital, a real estate private equity firm with two verticals: multifamily value add (Tampa Bay, San Antonio, Austin) and build-to-rent development. In this episode, he breaks down the returns (15–20% multifamily vs. 25–30% BTR), the investor psychology behind raising equity, and the exact marketing systems that helped CPI scale from zero to a cross-border investment platform serving Canadian and US accredited investors. Whether you're building a fund, a company, or a brand — this episode is about the infrastructure behind growth. 🔑 What you'll learn: → The difference between multifamily value add and build-to-rent (and when to use each) → Why US multifamily beat the S&P 500 for 20 years — and what's changing now → How CPI Capital finds and qualifies accredited investors → The know-like-trust framework for converting prospects into LPs → Why tariffs caused 70% of their Canadian investors to almost walk — and what brought them back → EOS/Traction: the growth operating system CPI runs on 🏢 About August Biniaz: August Biniaz is the CIO and co-founder of CPI Capital, a real estate private equity firm focused on US multifamily and build-to-rent development in Tampa Bay, San Antonio, and Austin. He is a LinkedIn Top Voice and host of the Real Estate Investing Demystified podcast. 🔗 cpicapital.com | LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/augustbiniaz/ 📌 Chapters: 0:00 – Introduction 0:44 – August's background: from broker to home builder 3:26 – Discovering real estate private equity and US multifamily 4:41 – CPI Capital: the two verticals explained 7:25 – Multifamily vs. build-to-rent: what returns actually look like 9:57 – Timeline and exit strategies for BTR development 12:10 – Why diversification across asset classes matters 13:21 – The equity problem: how CPI started raising capital 15:43 – Building a brand around your executive team 18:53 – Know, Like, Trust: the investor acquisition framework 20:04 – Finding your investor avatar 23:19 – How CPI qualifies leads (the 3 questions they ask) 25:35 – Canadian vs. US investors: the 70/30 split 29:32 – Current market analysis: rates, oversupply, distress 33:41 – Why multifamily fundamentals are still strong 36:07 – Growth strategy: the EOS / Traction framework 38:01 – Big Hairy Audacious Goals and quarterly rocks 40:28 – Building the right team (fractional roles, Slack, Asana) 41:45 – How to scale without shiny object syndrome 44:42 – Final thoughts: marketing beats product, every time — Test, Optimize, and Scale is hosted by Jason Fishman, CEO of Digital Niche Agency. New episodes every week covering digital marketing, growth, and entrepreneurship. Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@DigitalNicheAgency Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/digitalnicheagency/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digital-niche-agency/ #RealEstateInvesting #MultifamilyInvesting #BuildToRent #PassiveIncome  #RealEstateSyndication #PrivateEquity #TestOptimizeScale

    47 分钟
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Listen as industry leaders and pioneers share their insights and experiences of growing their businesses to scale using marketing. Find out what to test, what to optimize, and when to scale as they speak with Jason Fishman, SVP Digital Strategy, DNA - Digital Niche Agency.