The Angle Podcast

The Angle Podcast

African perspectives on digital culture, creativity, media, money, and governance. We spotlight the innovators and technologies shaping the continent’s digital future primarily through interviews but also engaging storytelling and authoritative insights, We celebrate the creators, businesses, and policies breaking into the mainstream, while amplifying the voices and innovations carving the path forward.

  1. EP43 | Build Your Brand, Then Scale: Marko Stavrou’s Founder Guide

    JAN 21

    EP43 | Build Your Brand, Then Scale: Marko Stavrou’s Founder Guide

    Entrepreneur Marko Stavrou (“the Gen Z guy”) talks about starting Gen Link after a Standard Bank brief to connect young people to the bank’s ecosystem, and how the company has since worked with 50+ clients. He explains why many organisations overlook youth (low current spending power, short-term optimisation), and argues for data-led decisions grounded in direct customer research - using Capitec’s in-branch demand as an example. He details Gen Z channel behaviour (avoid email; view WhatsApp as personal; often don’t see services because of misfit distribution), and describes his team’s creator-driven research platform. On media, Marko outlines why traditional media and conferences still offer credibility/validation versus noisy social channels, and how to help legacy publishers: “TikTokification” - short, engaging video on Instagram/TikTok that links back to articles - plus a positive, authentic storytelling lens. He predicts cross-pollination: investors and execs with visible personal brands, and more leaders documenting their journeys. Chapters / timestamps 00:00 – Intro & summit context 00:45 – Who is Marko? “Gen Z guy,” what Gen Link does 01:25 – Why youth are overlooked (spend now vs long-term) 02:12 – Standard Bank brief → Gen Link’s first contract; 50+ clients since 03:34 – Be data-led; Capitec’s in-branch insight 04:50 – Channel reality: email/WhatsApp avoidance; misfit distribution 05:22 – Creator-driven research platform (banking patterns, targeted reach) 06:02 – Why traditional media still matters (credibility/auditing) 08:41 – Fixing legacy media: short video hooks that link to articles 09:10 – Example: Good Things Guy’s positive, authentic model 10:01 – Cross-pollination: investors with personal brands; optionality for Gen Z 10:57 – Leaders documenting the journey (Alex Hormozi, Steven Bartlett, Adrian Gore) 12:05 – “Don’t sell—document”; why authenticity beats product posts 13:16 – Investing in Gen Z: sponsor and market events to young people 14:26 – Fill the room: get under-30s into conferences 14:53 – Founder content workflow: commentator → creator → outsource 16:10 – Volume vs value; credibility before clickbait 17:54 – Crash course for beginners: pick what you love; personalise; start on LinkedIn/IG 18:26 – Pillar → mined clips; start 1–2 pieces/week; write if you dislike camera 19:27 – Be authentic: talk about what you actually do/care about 20:09 – Origin story & philosophy: independence; self-belief before evidence 20:54 – Close & thanks #TheAnglePodcast #MarkoStavrou #GenZ #YouthMarketing #CreatorEconomy #ContentStrategy #ShortVideo #AudienceDevelopment #BrandBuilding #SouthAfricaMarketing Produced and Published by Submedia.co.za YouTube · The Angle · YouTube · Substack · LinkedIn · Facebook · Instagram · X · TikTok

    22 min
  2. EP 42 | “Sell Intelligence, Not Raw Data” - Mark Nasila on Data Sovereignty

    JAN 14

    EP 42 | “Sell Intelligence, Not Raw Data” - Mark Nasila on Data Sovereignty

    AI must create real value, not just proofs-of-concept. Dr. Mark Nasila explains how FNB’s risk function uses data and AI to stay ahead of evolving regulation and fraud -preventing some R2 billion in losses annually - and why people now make decisions after AI aggregates the evidence (including small language models drafting forensic reports for roughly 220,000 investigations a year). He details how to avoid hallucinations and over-reliance on tools with a clear human-in-the-loop sign-off. From “African AI” as a value-first agenda (health, energy, local constraints) to the industry’s fixation on use cases over end-to-end transformation, Nasila argues the metric that matters is experience and outcomes, not shiny tech. He calls for national focus areas, public–private partnerships, and data sovereignty that controls the AI value chain -“sell intelligence, not raw data” - backed by urgent, coherent AI strategy, not just policy. Chapters / timestamps 00:00 – Intro: role of Chief Data & Analytics Officer (risk, regulation, proactiveness) 01:34 – Regulations as trust & value; automating compliance at scale 03:10 – AI in risk: ~R2 billion fraud prevented; 220k investigations; SLM forensic reports 05:24 – Hallucinations & over-reliance: limits of models; human-in-the-loop sign-off 08:34 – Defining “African AI”: value-first, local problems, infra, skills, ethics 10:53 – Find the right problems: R&D and prioritisation inside firms & government 12:23 – Why most are stuck at POCs; transform processes, not demos 16:16 – “AI washing”: inflated POC claims vs measured, experience-level value 19:23 – National AI policy: prioritise sectors; augment jobs; socio-economic lens 22:42 – People still matter: limits of chatbots/coding; bring humans back where needed 26:04 – Government data, strategy, and global benchmarks (US/EU/China focus & investment) 28:49 – Efficiency examples and why strategy must lead policy 31:07 – AI as geopolitics/industry driver; sovereign AI and owning the value chain 38:06 – Data centres vs sovereignty; “sell intelligence,” protect the pipeline 41:13 – Where to find the books; closing remarks & next steps #TheAnglePodcast #MarkNasila #FNB #AI #FraudPrevention #RiskAnalytics #DataSovereignty #HumanInTheLoop #AfricanAI #AIAtScale Produced and Published by Submedia.co.za YouTube · The Angle · YouTube · Substack · LinkedIn · Facebook · Instagram · X · TikTok

    43 min
  3. EP 41 | Every Industry Will Be Disrupted - Celiwe Ross on What Leaders Must Do Now

    JAN 7

    EP 41 | Every Industry Will Be Disrupted - Celiwe Ross on What Leaders Must Do Now

    Leadership in a disrupted world. Celiwe Ross - South Africa’s first black woman to qualify as a mining engineer reflects on leading through technological change: self-knowledge over fear, community over ego, and why yesterday’s leadership model won’t work when we’re partnering with AI. She shares early underground lessons on teamwork and finding value, then applies those to financial services where leaders must become conversant in AI as roles shift and skills get automated. Ross discusses Old Mutual’s multi-year engagement with the Singularity Summit to catalyse new conversations - from fraud detection to service design with humility - and warns that incumbents who don’t adapt will be disrupted. She argues for reaching younger audiences with future-of-work realism, and suggests more practical support for SMEs. On AI, she’s cautiously optimistic: expect disruption across industries; learn to separate truth from fake; and use tools like Microsoft Copilot/meeting facilitation to stay present while capturing actions. She closes that the next era demands a full shift in leadership - less about technical prowess, more about connecting, challenging ideas, inspiring, empathising, and coaching. Chapters / timestamps 00:00 – Intro & why leadership must change with technology 01:12 – “Do the personal work”: self-knowledge vs fear of the future 02:17 – First black woman mining engineer: early underground lessons 02:25 – Chairlift moment, acceptance, and finding value via planning tools 06:44 – Why a financial-services incumbent engages Singularity Summit 07:55 – What really blocks adoption: fear of the unknown/obsolescence 09:14 – Using fear as a catalyst; be fascinated by the future 10:26 – Partnership approach: bringing 200 staff, cross-level learning 12:34 – Where are the youth? Cost, inclusion, and reaching tweens/teens 14:39 – Community “village” mindset; democratising access as costs fall 17:11 – Entrepreneurship realities; building the muscle to experiment 19:44 – What SMEs actually need: practical AI how-to (prompts, contracts, pitches) 21:20 – Fear and scams narratives; will AI survive hype? 22:01 – 80% possibility lens; truth vs fake; human connection still matters 23:57 – Practical AI at work: Teams + Copilot meeting “facilitator” 25:42 – “Every industry will be disrupted by AI” 26:05 – Hope, community, and building the future we want 26:47 – Does AI require a new kind of leadership? 27:27 – Final view: a full shift—leaders who connect, inspire, coach #TheAnglePodcast #CeliweRoss #Leadership #FutureOfWork #AIDisruption #DigitalTransformation #OldMutual #SMEs #YouthInclusion #southafricabusiness Produced and published by Submedia.co.za YouTube · The Angle · YouTube · Substack · LinkedIn · Facebook · Instagram · X · TikTok

    29 min
  4. EP 40 | Pay-on-Proof AI: How Isazi.ai Turned Clients into Evangelists

    12/31/2025

    EP 40 | Pay-on-Proof AI: How Isazi.ai Turned Clients into Evangelists

    Practical AI beats hype. In this Singularity Summit episode of The Angle, Ashley Anthony - co-founder & CEO, Isazi.ai explains how a bootstrapped AI company grew to 110 people by solving specific customer problems first—then choosing the tech. He unpacks Isazi’s first-principles approach - translate business issues into mathematical problems - the pay-on-proof/money-back guarantees that built evangelists, and why South Africa’s advanced banking & supply chains made it a strong testbed long before global expansion. Ashley introduces two products: Hudson — a data river engine for cleaning, preparing, predicting, and optimising; e.g., forecasting thousands of SKUs and optimising distribution. Sophia — end-to-end document automation using multiple LLMs plus a human-in-the-loop layer (crowdsourced micro-tasks to unemployed youth) to eliminate low-confidence extractions and run high-volume processing. He closes with a founder’s mindset: curiosity beats tools; define the question, read widely, and let math + execution do the work. Chapters / timestamps 00:00 – Intro 00:40 – “Practical applications of AI” & Isazi’s bootstrapped origin story 02:46 – Team size (110), global footprint, and problem-first market view 04:40 – How bootstrapping shaped guarantees & customer evangelists 06:38 – First principles: understand the problem; be tool-agnostic 08:35 – Why South Africa (banks, supply chains) enabled scaling 09:44 – Market realities, red tape, and focusing on practical value 13:10 – Business model: ~30% consulting, ~70% product licensing 14:09 – Hudson: data “river” → clean, predict, optimise (SKU forecasting example) 16:10 – Sophia: LLM document automation + human-in-the-loop micro-jobs 17:46 – Data stance: no customer data ownership; cloud or on-prem options 18:45 – On AI fear & adoption: “that debate is over” 21:25 – “Africa has broken the border”: solve problems with what you have 22:30 – Misprioritised AI (chatbots) vs real ROI (revenue up or cost down) 24:52 – Curiosity story (library metaphor): ask better questions, learn faster 29:56 – Goal: solve a client problem in one week; push toward one day 31:32 – Why mathematical thinking is the edge (team & approach) 32:38 – Close #TheAnglePodcast #AshleyAnthony #IsaziAI #PracticalAI #AIROI #DocumentAutomation #HumanInTheLoop #SupplyChain #DataEngineering #SouthAfricaTech Produced and published by Submedia.co.za YouTube · The Angle · YouTube · Substack · LinkedIn · Facebook · Instagram · X · TikTok

    34 min
  5. EP 39 | Keeping African Agency in AI: Vukosi Marivate’s Call to Build

    12/24/2025

    EP 39 | Keeping African Agency in AI: Vukosi Marivate’s Call to Build

    Keep African agency in AI - that’s the through-line of Prof. Vukosi Marivate’s talk. Don’t outsource the future, build it locally. He points to a decade of grassroots work (Data Science Africa, Deep Learning Indaba, Masakhane) and argues for a full ecosystem: fundamental researchers, model builders, product teams, and real markets to test and absorb what’s built. He stresses R&D investment (AU benchmark 1% of GDP; SA ~0.6% after a corporate pullback from ~0.8% pre-COVID), and the role both government and corporates must play. Language is a priority - with 2000+ African languages, we need digital dictionaries, speech recognition, and NLP tools that actually work for our context, otherwise Africa stays a consumer, not a creator. He explains why bias can’t be “fine-tuned out” of large models after the fact; you need better representation from the ground up. He also outlines the technical and data hurdles for LLMs in morphologically rich languages like isiZulu. Chapters / timestamps 00:00 – Intro & “latest iteration” of his message 00:36 – Key takeaway: Africans must keep agency in AI; grassroots orgs to engage 01:23 – What a healthy African AI ecosystem includes (research → product → market) 03:46 – R&D funding realities: AU 1% benchmark; SA numbers; corporate role 06:19 – Market potential vs perceptions; demographics and opportunity 06:46 – 2000+ languages: designing systems that meet people where they are 08:35 – Why language matters: NLP journey, lack of tools, activism for languages 10:38 – Build locally vs being only consumers; multinationals without R&D offices 11:07 – Tanzania example: low-power, low-connectivity edge ML for farmers 13:59 – LLM challenges for African languages (data quality, morphology, encodings) 17:36 – Skills roadmap: read papers, implement, solid data/computing fundamentals 20:09 – Dev example: TTS trained on religious texts—limits and pitfalls 20:56 – Practical advice: use general-purpose/open datasets; improve with limited data 22:25 – Resource-efficient AI; Lab by AI speech/translation; API access notes 23:57 – What’s next: building traction; new Institute for Data Science & AI (UVic) 24:46 – For AI skeptics: get literate; understand benefits/risks; ask better questions 25:21 – Close #TheAnglePodcast #VukosiMarivate #AfricanAI #AIAgency #NLP #AfricanLanguages #BiasInAI #EdgeAI #RAndD #BuildInAfrica Produced and Published by Submedia.co.za YouTube · The Angle · YouTube · Substack · LinkedIn · Facebook · Instagram · X · TikTok

    26 min
  6. EP 38 | Speed, Open Source, Ecosystems: The Faster Path to AI Value

    12/17/2025

    EP 38 | Speed, Open Source, Ecosystems: The Faster Path to AI Value

    How do you build AI that serves profit and purpose—without causing unintended harm? In this episode of The Angle, Atenkosi Ngubevana - Group AI & Automation lead at Vodacom unpacks a values-first approach to AI: design for inclusive growth, embed ethical data stewardship, and measure impact beyond demos. We get into why many corporates stall after flashy PoCs, how quality data and real digital-transformation work unlock scale, and why startups can leapfrog incumbents with speed, open source, and focused ecosystems. We discuss personalised sales, fraud detection, and what changes with the gen-AI hype cycle. The headline: the tech is not the value—data, processes, and change management are. Policy and power come up too - South Africa’s AI regulation is lagging; the urgent work is ethical guardrails and data sovereignty (who holds which citizen data, to what ends?). Atenkosi helped set the tone for a national AI strategy - from infrastructure ownership and governance to public-private upskilling partnerships - so we dig into what “sovereign AI” should mean here. What you’ll learn -How to frame AI around values, inclusion, and measurable impact, not hype. -Why data quality + transformation (people/process) decide adoption at scale. -Where startups beat incumbents: speed, open source, specialist ecosystems. -The state of AI regulation, ethical AI, and data stewardship in SA. -National AI strategy pillars and public and private roles in skills. -Purpose pilots: AI tutor & career guidance with health/education partners. Subscribe for more conversations on Africa’s digital future—where systems, incentives, and execution matter more than slogans. Chapters: 00:00 – Cold open & intro 00:11 – Values before tools: building AI that doesn’t cause unintended harm 01:34 – Atenkosi’s role + Vodacom AI Lab: profit and purpose pillars (education, health, water) 03:20 – Why PoCs wow but scale stalls: data quality, transformation, change management 04:04 – From ML to gen-AI: what actually changed (and what didn’t) 08:22 – Startups vs incumbents: renovate the mansion or build the glass house? 10:25 – Speed, open source, outsourcing cybersecurity, and thinking global from day one 14:38 – Using scale without killing innovation: external partners, “David & Goliath” logic 17:12 – M&A realities, Competition Commission guardrails, and consumer protection 21:19 – Are we regulating AI well? Ethical AI, data sovereignty, POPIA limits 24:41 – Incentives over excuses: SARS as a working ML example; why will matters 27:24 – Infusing AI in purpose work: AI tutor and career-guidance pilots with partners 31:07 – Inside SA’s national AI strategy: infrastructure, governance, partnerships, skills 33:23 – Implementing the strategy: corporate lessons for a sovereign AI agenda 34:59 – Public–private complementarity: upskilling, incentives, and execution gaps 36:39 – Close & credits #TheAnglePodcast #AtenkosiNgubevana #AI #DigitalTransformation #EthicalAI #DataSovereignty #POPIA #OpenSource #AfricaInnovation #sovereignai Produced and Published by Submedia.co.za YouTube · The Angle · YouTube · Substack · LinkedIn · Facebook · Instagram · X · TikTok

    38 min
  7. EP 37 | She Built an Earring That Fights Back: Hidden Camera + SOS

    12/11/2025

    EP 37 | She Built an Earring That Fights Back: Hidden Camera + SOS

    When safety tech looks like jewellery, victims gain time, evidence - and options. In this episode of The Angle, Bohlale Mphahlele breaks down the story behind her discreet, safety wearable: an earring with a hidden trigger and nano-camera that captures the perpetrator’s face, records audio, and sends GPS + evidence to trusted contacts in seconds. We go deep on South Africa’s GBV reality and why evidence at the moment of harm can change outcomes - from getting help faster to supporting prosecutions. On the path to scale, she shares the pilot roadmap (schools, campuses, nightlife venues), partnerships with campus security/SAPS-linked victim support, manufacturing choices, and the business model mix. For founders, there’s practical advice on user testing trauma-aware products, funding (grants vs equity), and how to frame impact with hard metrics. If you care about safety tech, women’s health, and product design for real constraints, this conversation is essential. Chapters & Timestamps: 00:00 – Cold open: why evidence in the moment matters 00:48 – Origin story: from problem statement to a discreet safety wearable 02:00 – How the earring works (panic trigger, nano-camera, GPS, auto-share) 04:15 – Prototyping trade-offs: battery, sensors, comfort, and stealth 06:10 – Data & privacy by design: encryption, consent, and chain of custody 08:05 – Low-connectivity playbook: offline buffers, retries, and SMS fallbacks 10:00 – Trials & user testing: trauma-aware research and false-positive reduction 12:20 – Partners & policy: campuses, SAPS-linked support, legal admissibility 14:10 – Manufacturing & cost curve: from small batch to scalable production 16:05 – Business model: hardware pricing, evidence-vault subscription, sponsorships 18:00 – Scaling across Africa: context differences, distribution, local support 19:10 – Founder playbook: funding, metrics that matter, and what’s next #TheAnglePodcast #BohlaleMphahlele #SafetyTech #WomensSafety #GBV #Wearables #ResponsibleAI #DataPrivacy #AfricaInnovation #JohannesburgTech Produced and published by Submedia.co.za YouTube · The Angle · YouTube · Substack · LinkedIn · Facebook · Instagram · X · TikTok

    12 min
  8. EP 36 | From Hype to ROI - How to Make AI Actually Move the needle

    12/09/2025

    EP 36 | From Hype to ROI - How to Make AI Actually Move the needle

    Modernisation fails when it’s led by tools instead of strategy. In this episode of The Angle, Valter Adao breaks down how he and Cadena Growth Partners approach growth and modernisation: start with a clear business ambition, define the value you want (growth, productivity, experience), and only then pick technology and vendors. His data point is stark: plenty of programmes ship “on time, on budget”… yet fewer than a third actually unlock the promised ROI - because they were tech-first, not strategy-first. We also dig into why adding constraints makes innovation work, how to spot healthy leadership signals, and the right capital–policy mix to let private investment flow. Finally: the real meaning of the Engels/AI pause—and why so many firms are stuck in theatre instead of impact. What you’ll learn: A practical sequence for modernisation (ambition - value - tech) and why leadership beats tooling. How deliberate constraints (scope, timelines, KPIs, budgets) turn “idea fairs” into value. The gladiator traits Valter hires for: agency, resilience, adult problem-solving - and why a constantly “too busy” C-suite is a red flag. Strategy before regulation - and the rails policy must lay to attract investment and protect property rights. Why South Africa’s AI trust & adoption are surprisingly high, average time online is 9h37m/day, and how to turn usage into productivity. The real AI/Engels pause: lots of pilots, little P&L movement - because firms chased “AI projects” instead of business cases. Chapters and Timecodes: 00:00 – Cold open: long-form vs short-form, how audiences really consume 01:32 – Formats that teach vs doom-scrolling (and where TikTok fits) 03:15 – Valter’s brief: growth + modernisation are leadership problems, not tech problems 03:43 – Cadena’s two tracks: repackaging legacy for new markets; modernising the core 04:50 – Why fewer than 30% of modernisation efforts deliver promised ROI (tech-first traps) 06:55 – The “fluency gap”: building an executive academy for better decisions 07:33 – Counterintuitive truth: more constraints → better innovation outcomes 08:08 – Designing constraints: value, timeline, scope, KPIs, and budget discipline 10:40 – Operating across 17 African countries: patterns of high-growth firms 11:11 – Utility first, then tech; unreasonable product expectations the tech must meet 13:24 – Leadership signals: clear decisions, governance, teams that actually own problems 15:09 – The “too busy” CEO as a diagnostic for organisational dysfunction 16:40 – Regulation as rails: how policy enables investment and protects property rights 18:39 – Strategy → regulation sequencing; anchor on jobs & growth, digitise to compete 20:03 – Industry-agnostic by design; cross-pollinating models (prepaid → energy) 22:16 – Tech augments humans: fear vs the “rock-breaker” productivity effect 27:02 – SA optimism, partnership mindset, and public–private execution gaps 31:01 – Where AI sits on the hype/maturity curve (and why AVs are further along) 32:51 – SA doesn’t lag when tech is mature; infra limits vs corporate capability 33:57 – SA’s high AI trust/adoption + 9h37m online: leapfrog potential if harnessed 37:08 – Engels/AI pause: stuck in demos because business cases came last 39:47 – From pilots to P&L: embed AI where it moves revenue, cost, or experience 40:28 – Closing: strategy first, then technology—no silver bullets #TheAnglePodcast, #ValterAdao, #DigitalTransformation, #StrategyOverTech, #AIROI, #PNLImpact, #Leadership, #Innovation, #ChangeManagement, #SouthAfricaBusiness, #DataStrategy, #productivity Produced and published by Submedia.co.za YouTube · The Angle · YouTube · Substack · LinkedIn · Facebook · Instagram · X · TikTok

    42 min

About

African perspectives on digital culture, creativity, media, money, and governance. We spotlight the innovators and technologies shaping the continent’s digital future primarily through interviews but also engaging storytelling and authoritative insights, We celebrate the creators, businesses, and policies breaking into the mainstream, while amplifying the voices and innovations carving the path forward.