The Argument

The Argument
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Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending? Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds. This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out. New episodes post every Thursday. You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. www.theargumentmag.com

  1. 4d ago

    Nate Silver on why the center-left is losing

    Nate Silver thinks the center-left might be right about a lot of policy questions, but they're still losing the political argument. He joins Jerusalem Demsas, Matt Yglesias, and special guest Jeremiah Johnson (staff writer at The Argument and host of the New Liberal Podcast) to dive into his recent article, "12 questions for the center-left." They get into whether liberalism and centrism are actually the same thing, why liberals need to be more vocal about their accomplishments, and whether many "anti-establishment" politicians like AOC, Elizabeth Warren, and Bernie Sanders are actually part of the establishment. Plus a peer review of a new paper on AI-assisted decision-making in child protective services and what it reveals about human and algorithmic bias. (00:00) Nate Silver's questions for the center-left(03:48) Vibe check for the center-left(07:44) Liberalism vs. centrism: not the same thing(09:48) Zohran Mamdani and sewer socialism(19:45) Answering Hasan Piker: do centrists believe in anything?(24:52) Why the Democratic establishment won't get overthrown(46:31) Why the center-left won't get angry(50:36) What happened to the center-right?(57:29) Is the DSA a threat to liberalism?(59:57) California, LA, and the failure of one-party rule(01:08:04) Peer review: Can AI make CPS decisions less biased? Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    Nate Silver on why the center-left is losing

  2. Aug 27

    Derek Thompson on the antisocial century

    Americans are spending more time alone than ever before. Derek Thompson, author of "The Anti-Social Century" and co-author of Abundance, joins Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias to argue that this isn't loneliness in the traditional sense. This new brand of loneliness is a choice, and Derek fears it's spreading across the world. Jerusalem presses him on whether the data actually supports the trend, and Matt talks about how social technology has helped him stay connected to friends. Plus a peer review of a new paper on joint custody after divorce in Sweden, and why both hosts are skeptical of its headline finding. (00:00) Why Derek Thompson is obsessed with loneliness(05:33) Americans are choosing to be alone(12:33) The difference between being alone and being lonely(17:48) The studies that show forced socializing works(32:29) Are guilty pleasures a modern phenomenon(34:35) Why English-speaking countries are lonelier(43:10) Is American happiness actually declining?(47:01) Matt's case that phones make him less lonely(52:30) Social fitness: socializing as exercise(59:14) Weakness of the will and winter camping videos(01:02:02) Peer review: How joint custody affects parents and kids Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    Derek Thompson on the antisocial century

  3. Aug 20

    Are elites just whoever you don’t like?

    Who actually counts as an elite in America? The Argument ran its own poll on elite perception, and the results scramble a lot of conventional wisdom. Billionaires and celebrities are the only groups a majority of Americans call elite. College professors, journalists, and people with graduate degrees barely register. Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias dig into what that means for the anti-elite politics of both parties, and why Matt thinks the poll is an overwhelming win for the Bernie Sanders crowd. Matt even takes the poll on elites himself to see where his views match up. Plus a peer review of a new paper on Ivy League admissions and elite networks. (00:00) The Argument's poll on who counts as elite(02:11) Celebrities, by definition, are elite(10:01) Poll results, Bernie Sanders, and Chris Rufo(21:26) Is the turn against feminism real?(34:45) Hollywood, Green Book, and cultural power(42:30) Career success vs. marriage and kids(53:17) Progressive incoherence on population and climate(01:00:23) Nobody thinks politicians are elite(01:02:23) Peer review: Ivy League admissions and elite networks Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    Are elites just whoever you don’t like?

  4. Aug 13

    What's wrong with Bowling Alone?

    Is there really a loneliness crisis?Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone, the 2000 classic that diagnosed America's collapse in community life. They argue about how bad the loneliness problem really is today, and whether Putnam's diagnosis about the loss of associational life actually holds up. They also get into Putnam's uneasiness about telling people to go to church, whether social capital really explains crime and civic health, what happened to the arguments the left already won, how much television and phones are to blame, and more. (00:00) Why we're reading Bowling Alone in 2026(05:14) Bowling alone is more concerned about church attendance(12:08) Does social capital explain anything?(17:00) Television, the internet, and the usual suspects(27:26) How American associational life reorganized(36:53) Has cooperation actually declined?(43:57) Voting, civic engagement, and what counts(55:57) The arguments the left already won(01:05:21) Why do young people who are doing fine feel so bad?(01:12:58) "Get off your phones" and other bad prescriptions Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    What's wrong with Bowling Alone?

  5. Aug 6

    #MeToo didn’t go far enough

    Many people say the #MeToo movement went too far. Jerusalem Demsas disagrees: she thinks it didn't go far enough. Matt Yglesias wants to talk about what the movement actually was, and worries about the risks of a leaderless movement without clear standards. They get into the difference between social and legal standards for misbehavior, why the Aziz Ansari story split the discourse, and what vibe shift actually took place. Plus a peer review of a new paper on migration, gentrification, and the people who prefer to move to better neighborhoods rather than fixing the ones they're in. (00:00) Jerusalem's hot take: #MeToo didn't go far enough(04:36) What Matt Yglesias thinks(08:24) The "abolish police" problem for #MeToo(09:54) Feminists using culture instead of the legal system(21:11) Aziz Ansari and unfair consequences(27:49) Social accountability vs. legal accountability(35:05) The gender gap on #MeToo (47:49) The Srinivasan essay and what #MeToo really was(01:02:52) Peer review: Move or fix the neighborhood Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! Once a month, The Argument podcast does a book club episode. This month we are reading Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam. Read along if you are interested, and comment with any questions/ideas you'd like us to explore! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    #MeToo didn’t go far enough

  6. Jul 30

    You don't actually want to buy a house

    Most Americans still see buying a home as the ultimate financial goal, but Jerusalem Demsas thinks homeownership is overrated. Matt Yglesias, a proud homeowner, disagrees. They get into why the American Dream might be a bad financial deal, what's really driving people's demand for stability, and whether the Singapore model has something to teach us. Plus a peer review of a new paper using Swedish lottery data to ask what money actually does to marriages. (00:00) Homeownership is overrated(04:42) The "only path to wealth" myth(10:16) The home equity piggy bank(17:25) The illiquidity problem(22:21) Homeownership brain(27:30) What everyone actually wants: stability(32:57) Rent control is back(35:28) A Singapore-style savings idea(45:17) The YIMBY case for more homeowners(46:45) Peer review: Lottery winners and marriage Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! Once a month, The Argument podcast does a book club episode. This month we are reading Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam. Read along if you are interested, and comment with any questions/ideas you'd like us to explore! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    You don't actually want to buy a house

  7. Jul 23

    Why AI might not replace us after all

    Most Americans fear that AI is about to cause widespread job losses, so Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas brought in their first-ever guest, Timothy B. Lee of the Understanding AI newsletter, to break it all down. Matt thinks a white-collar wipeout is coming. Jerusalem and Tim think we've got enough time to adapt. Plus, a peer review on a new paper about the effects of mixed-use zoning. (00:00) Our first guest: Tim Lee on AI and jobs(02:27) Matt's case for the white-collar wipeout(05:43) Jobs are bundles of tasks(08:26) The O-ring theory: why one human still matters(18:02) Tim's answer: it's all about timescales(21:27) Chess, Starbucks, and the human preference problem(24:28) The protectionism scramble: gas pumps and self-driving trucks(30:47) The "canaries in the coal mine" study on young workers(38:45) Channeling 2015 Matt: just run a hotter economy(49:30) Peer review: What's actually wrong with zoning? Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    Why AI might not replace us after all

  8. Jul 16

    What AOC and Bernie Sanders get wrong about the oligarchy

    Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have been packing arenas on their "Fighting Oligarchy" tour, but Matt Yglesias doesn't think the oligarchy is real. Jerusalem Demsas is more sympathetic: donors really do get access that regular people can't, and the discomfort with that is about democracy, not policy outcomes. But the discourse frustrates her too, since "the oligarchy" shifts from a cabal of billionaires to the entire top 10 percent, depending on the argument. They also get into why the study Bernie cites doesn't show what he thinks it shows, how the Republican donor class spent a fortune failing to stop Trump, Mark Zuckerberg's gold-chain era, and the self-interested class that actually has captured American government: homeowners. Plus a peer review of a paper showing that immigration lowers mortality among the elderly, and what AI does to that argument. (00:00) Is the oligarchy real?(03:22) What donors actually buy: access and face time(12:52) Mark Zuckerberg, the most destructive billionaire(17:30) Citizens United and the money-buys-elections theory(21:51) Tom Steyer and the billionaires who lose(27:18) The real cabal: homeowners(34:29) The study Bernie cites (and what it actually shows)(41:04) Why small-d democracy is underrated(43:17) Money, media, and public reasoning(53:05) Peer review: Does immigration help the elderly live longer? Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com  New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate! The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

    What AOC and Bernie Sanders get wrong about the oligarchy
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About

Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending? Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds. This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out. New episodes post every Thursday. You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. www.theargumentmag.com

Information

  • Creator
    The Argument
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    45
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Argument
  • Show Website
    The Argument