The Communication Solution

The IFIOC-Casey Jackson

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Changing the way we see communication. Teaching evidence based communication skills.

06/05/2024

Resolving Challenges in Behavioral Health

About this Episode Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. In this episode, we embark on a thought-provoking discussion on the scalability of mental health services and the application of motivational interviewing (MI) within systemic frameworks. Addressing the complexities of navigating the mental health system, the conversation delves into the limitations and potentials of MI, the impact of organizational culture and leadership, and the critical role of empathy and consistency in effecting meaningful change. Through an exploration of the challenges faced by both providers and recipients of mental health services, the podcast offers insights into the intricacies of enhancing care delivery on a macro scale. In this podcast, we discuss: Complexities of the Mental Health System: The episode opens with a candid examination of the prevailing frustrations and criticisms surrounding the mental health system, setting the stage for a deeper exploration of its systemic issues. The Scalability of Motivational Interviewing: John Gilbert introduces the topic of scaling MI practices within the mental health sector, questioning how these techniques can be effectively expanded to meet broader systemic needs while addressing individual autonomy and well-being. Compliance vs. Behavior Change: Casey Jackson articulates the difference between compliance-based models and behavior change models, underscoring the limitations of traditional approaches in facilitating long-term mental health improvements. Challenges of Scaling MI: The conversation navigates the practical and philosophical hurdles in broadening the application of MI, including the need for political will, financial investment, and a cultural shift towards preventive care. Impact of Organizational Culture and Leadership: The discussion emphasizes the crucial influence of leadership and organizational culture in the successful implementation and scaling of MI practices, highlighting the necessity for consistent vision and communication. Empathy in Systemic Change: The hosts reflect on the importance of empathy at all levels of the mental health system—from individual care to executive decision-making—pointing out how a genuine understanding of diverse perspectives can drive more effective and compassionate solutions. The Role of Measurement and Feedback: The episode touches on the significance of measuring MI fidelity and providing feedback as key strategies in ensuring the quality and effectiveness of scaled interventions. Success Stories and Challenges: Casey shares examples of successful MI implementation in various settings, including the challenges faced and the remarkable outcomes achieved through dedicated efforts and strategic planning. Vision for Future Scalability: The dialogue explores the potential for a future where mental health services are more efficiently scaled, advocating for a concerted effort among stakeholders to adopt evidence-based, person-centered approaches like MI You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. Transcribe Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Hey everyone. It’s Danielle Cantin here with the communication solution podcast. I’m your facilitator here with your hosts, Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. Hey guys. Hello. I’d like to turn this episode over to John. You have a great idea for what we can talk about today. And instead of me trying to reiterate it, I’m just going to toss it to you. Okay. Well, thank you. Yeah. I think it’s a work in progress here, but I know that Casey and I definitely can riff off this and, and this is more Casey’s wheelhouse, but a lot of this relates to a recent podcast we did where we went into the lived experience of helping people that, are unhoused or dealing with that or mental health issues. And how that is as someone that’s helping them and what that experience is like and how am I fits with that. So for those that are interested in that, you can go deeper into that dive. I’m really curious about the other kind of side of this where people have all seemingly I I’m less aware of this. I know Danielle. You shared some things as well, that there’s a lot of opinions and a lot of, frustration and a lot of ideas about the mental health system and how it’s completely broken or how we need to do this or that. And Casey, I’m thinking of starting there with you because you had shared before this, even some extreme views that I haven’t even heard around this and just starting to think, well, when we look at this macro view of scaling. Mental health services and behavioral health services, and in my role in that, how does that all come together from your perspective? And where are the limits of M I, where someone’s autonomy leads to hurting other people and antisocial behaviors, or that’s creating self harm and more, constant visits to the E. R. that are. Creating lots of costs. So I’m curious to kind of look at this in that way and approach it. We can kind of take it whatever direction you’re, you’re feeling most well, the, I’ll start with the easiest thing to start with, which is, you know, in, you know, almost every state, the basic lies, if somebody’s going to do harm to themselves or others, then. You take a more specific approach if they’re going to hurt themselves or hurt other people. So that’s one of the indicators that makes it easier to think about where there’s a higher probability that people tend to lean towards compliance. I think it’s such an, it’s just an incredibly complex topic, and I’m going to try to untangle aspects of it when I think when you’re talking about the larger behavioral health system, the mental health substance use. It is replicated from a Western medical model, which is very much about where are the fees, how are we spending the dollars, where’s the profit margin, how much money is being spent on this, which is very, you know, this John from O’Keefe and Healthcare. Yes, there’s an element of it that really does have to do with patient care. But if you ask patients these days and if you ask providers these days in the health care field, no one feels particularly good about where health care is providers or or the patients. And so you’re gonna hear that same level of frustration in behavioral health as well to the hardest thing with. Behavioral health. And again, these are just always need to preface this, but this is just my bias from, you know, 35 plus years in the field is that since we’re replicating a health care system and behavioral health, health care has not had particularly good outcomes when it comes to behavior change. They don’t have particularly good outcomes historically when you look at anything that requires behavior change around health, like diabetes, heart disease, obesity, things that require behavior change, healthcare has not done a good job with their outcomes are not particularly good. Because they tend to use a hierarchical perspective. They tend to use a compliance, kind of finger shaking, guilt approach historically, there’s been, you know, significant changes in health care, but that still is the basic cultural context. And so that’s the basic cultural context in. Behavioral health is, you know, I know when I was raised in the addiction world, the addiction field, it was extremely condescending, extremely paternalistic, finger shaking, guilt ridden. I remember one of the sayings from, you know, somebody that was in recovery that I worked with and I used to do groups with him and he was, kind of our, the veteran counselor in our, in our addiction agency, and I remember him telling people frequently, if you don’t think you’re an addict or an alcoholic, don’t let the doorknob hate you or the good Lord split you, get out on the streets and figure it out for yourself. And when you’re ready to come back and talk to me, then I’ll talk to you. And which just has zero correlation with behavior change, but it really does feed a righteous perspective. The whole. Evolution of motivation and behavior change based approaches, I think, has been profound on the field. They’re not the standard. They’re not the norm, but they’ve been profound because we’re using behavior change based interventions with behavior change versus medical interventions with behavior change, which don’t particularly work well. So instead of the expert Asking you a bucket load of questions, assessing all the things that are wrong with you and then giving you a treatment plan that most people are not going to follow and then blaming them for not doing it. Behavior change based models meets the person with their where they’re at, helps them get clear about where they want to be. And then

36 min
05/16/2024

Jury Duty Insights: Empathy and Civic Duty in the Courtroom

About this Episode Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. This episode explores how empathy and effective communication are pivotal during jury selection and throughout the trial process. Casey offers profound insights into the judicial system’s complexities, emphasizing the critical role of civic duty and the challenges it faces in modern society. The podcast also discusses the concept of ambivalence, particularly in the context of legal decision-making and jury deliberation, highlighting the impact of individual values and biases. Through Danielle’s firsthand account, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the deliberation dynamics and the diverse approaches jurors bring to the table. The episode underscores the importance of appreciating civic responsibilities like jury duty, and recognizing its significant impact on individuals, organizations, and communities. In this podcast, we discuss: Jury Duty Experience: Danielle Cantin shares her recent jury duty experience, emphasizing the significant role of communication and empathy in the judicial process. Empathy in Jury Selection: Danielle discusses how empathy and communication techniques were crucial during the in-depth jury selection process she underwent. Navigating Societal Norms: The conversation touches on societal perceptions of jury duty and the struggle between societal norms and personal values. Judicial System Insights: Casey Jackson provides insights into the complexities of the judicial system, highlighting its challenges and the importance of civic duty. Ambivalence in Decision-Making: The podcast explores the concept of ambivalence, especially in the context of jury deliberation and legal decision-making. Impact of Individual Values: The discussion emphasizes how individual values play a critical role in jurors’ ability to be fair and unbiased. Motivational Interviewing and Jury Duty: While not directly applicable, the principles of motivational interviewing are discussed in relation to understanding and navigating personal biases and ambivalence. Deliberation Dynamics: Danielle shares her experiences during jury deliberation, illustrating the diverse approaches and thought processes among jurors. Appreciation for Civic Responsibility: The podcast concludes with a reflection on the honor and responsibility of serving as a juror and the profound impact of such civic duties on individuals and the community. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. Transcribe Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome. To the communication solution that will change your world. Hello everyone. It’s Danielle Cantin here, your facilitator with the communication solution podcast. And I am here joined by Casey Jackson, your host. Hey Casey. Hey. How are you? I’m doing good. Awesome. We are going to go down a little path. I was on jury duty. I was selected for jury duty. So I would love to talk to you about the communication solution, all the things you train in terms of empathy and all of these things were popping for me as I was going through this process, which honestly, I don’t remember I’ve ever participated in. I think I maybe went into a big giant room and eventually was let out. Maybe I heard. Attorneys questioning people that they ended up choosing, but this was really unique. I actually went through a pretty in depth selection process. It was about three days long. And, then I was chosen. And I think many people might know that you can be unchosen. It’s not rocket science to figure out what you might need to do, even if it isn’t true to, Present yourself in a certain way that might not be appealing. So, it reminds me of, did you ever see the, the series, the jury duty? Netflix, where the one guy suggested that a guy say something and it was just like, no, you don’t, you don’t. Cause it wasn’t true for him at all. But all of these things are popping through my head as I’m in this, because that’s not ideal. Everybody, the instant reaction to jury duty is, Oh God, really? Oh, bummer. You get out of it. And I found myself slipping into just society norms of like, Oh, like drama, trauma, how, how’s business going to continue? And this is so much time and you know, all the, all the, the pokes at, well, Oh, you can get 15 a day, you know, there’s just so much negativity around it. And yes. I would love to, to kind of get your insights on what happened for me through that process. Cause it started there and I was just like, Oh man, I can’t believe it was actually called a emergency. You actually, your group has to come in. Cause I got away Friday night. I didn’t have to, I called, I don’t have to come in Monday night. I called emergency. You have to come in tomorrow. And I was like, Oh, snap. Transition to people telling me, well, you know, you just can. Do this or do that and get out of it and me having to reevaluate my values very much. So yeah, so it was a tough case. So I’m doing more talking probably than listeners. I would ever want you guys to have to put up with because we want to hear from you Casey, but to give you a context and give you some questions. I’d love your perspective on the judicial system and what that opportunity and role might be for a juror. Yeah, it’s difficult because it does trigger my own writing reflex, you know, so I just will own that ahead of time, but I have my own biases and, and, and it does have an impact on the whole judicial system. I’ve been lucky enough to work from, you know. Probation with law enforcement from the minute something happens to, working with judges who I just have been able to work with the entire spectrum to people being long term incarcerated, the D. A. Prosecutors. Yes, they love prosecutors. So I get all these different vantage points. Um. And then when I step back and look at systems, you know, and try to bridge this from your individual experience as a juror and, you know, the system, justice system, part of the reason the justice system is broken, it is broken and you can ask nearly anyone. I’ve talked to judges who will say it, prosecutors say it, definitely the actual people that are in the justice system feel that it’s broken. Part of it is because of this whole thing about civic duty. You know, 50 years ago, you were not, you did not try to ditch jury duty. It was an honor to serve my mother. It was, it was truly like voting or like, this is part of being part of our country, like other countries don’t all have this kind of a judicial system where it’s a jury of your peers. So it’s sad to an extent that a jury of my peers don’t want to be a jury. Um. You know, so then you end up with a jury of people who want to, you know, and then there’s, so there’s some intrinsic bias there instead of having people that just genuinely are like, this is my civic duty. I am showing up because I want to be part of a judicial system on a larger level. So that’s my, that’s my bias. I’m just going to own ahead of time. I, I know I have bias and I know that this has a profound impact on how I view this, but I’m going to try to pull it into the M. I. lane. Do you think, That that’s part of what’s broken is the fact that the jury of the peers really doesn’t this interesting that you said your mom viewed it as something great. I don’t have that memory of anybody ever enjoying it or looking forward to it, but I will tell you, I got there fast because I know so many, public defenders, criminal, private criminal defense attorneys, DAs as well. I somehow attract attorneys, so I’m all set if anything’s ever needed. But I, so I know them, but I never fully understood or, or looked at the top of the mountain for me and what I value until this experience, because it was truly an honor. And, it wasn’t, I’m doing my duty, pat me on the back. It was, man, I am so grateful as broken or as faulty as the system is. I don’t have a ton of experience of what it’s like everywhere else, but I am awfully grateful for where I live and the opportunity should I need it. On either side, right? And that’s what I got really fast was, while I lean toward empathy, like very high, high empathy, I was like, am I able to pull, have that for both? And am I able to, be objective? And my only point is, can, will you follow the law, whether I agree with it or not, and be a fair, a fair juror to both sides to everything. And I was like, man, I would, if I was on either side, I would want someone like me and on the, on the 12. And so that’s kind of true to, to my answer jury of your peers. I mean, that to me, it, you know, when we look at motive for me, when I look at just some of the aspects of motivation, because you can’t say, I mean, motivationally is not part of jury duty. It’s these construct

24 min
05/06/2024

Navigating Compliance and Empowerment in Professional Settings

About this Episode Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. In this engaging episode delves into the intricate balance between compliance and empowerment in professional settings that are traditionally compliance-oriented, such as law enforcement, probation, and child welfare. The discussion highlights the limitations of compliance models in achieving long-term behavior change and introduces motivational interviewing (MI) as a powerful method for empowering individuals to navigate systemic constraints while making positive life changes. Through examples from child welfare and law enforcement, the hosts illustrate how MI can lead to better outcomes for both professionals and the individuals they serve. The podcast underscores the importance of understanding individual motivations and the impact of organizational culture on compliance-based approaches, inviting listeners to engage further with the topic. In this podcast, we discuss: Introduction to Motivational Interviewing (MI) in Compliance-Oriented Professions: The podcast begins with an exploration of how MI is applied in fields where compliance is a key component, such as law enforcement, probation, and child welfare. Compliance vs. Behavior Change: A distinction is made between compliance-based methods, which are often short-term and don’t lead to sustained behavior change, and behavior change-based methods that MI embodies. The Limitations of Compliance Models: It’s discussed how compliance models, while useful for immediate outcomes, do not foster long-term change, using the example of individuals returning to old habits after probation. Empowering Communication: The focus shifts to how professionals can use MI to empower individuals to navigate legal and policy constraints while still making positive changes. Applying MI in Child Welfare: The podcast delves into the application of MI in child welfare, emphasizing the dual goals of ensuring children’s safety and promoting family and community thriving. The Role of MI in Law Enforcement: There’s a discussion on the impact of MI training for law enforcement officers, noting a decrease in the use of force and better outcomes. Navigating Systemic Challenges: The conversation acknowledges the systemic barriers that professionals and their clients face and how MI can be a tool for navigating these challenges. The Importance of Understanding Individual Motivations: Emphasizing the need to explore and understand what matters to individuals in order to support their autonomy and encourage positive decision-making. The Impact of Organizational Culture on Compliance: The podcast touches on how organizational culture and supervisory practices can influence professionals’ reliance on compliance versus empowerment approaches. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. Transcribe Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome. To the communication solution that will change your world. Hi everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin, your facilitator of the Communication Solution Podcast, and I’m here with Casey Jackson, your host, and John Gilbert. How are you guys? Awesome. Well, we’re here to talk about basically the communication solution, but really weaving in all of the principles and theories around motivational interviewing, this incredible evidence based practice that has me mesmerized by the results and outcomes that it’s able to achieve in people’s lives. What I’d love to dive into today for a topic is, one that typically you’re advised not to talk about, which is politics. Yeah, I was, I was hoping and thinking, you know, what if we use this podcast in this time together to talk about and unpack the complexities around politics and how can we look at that topic through the lens of motivational interviewing? How does that sound? That is a very tight needle to thread, for sure. Sounds risky, which makes me want to do it twice as much. With protection, which means that we’re putting some kind of guidelines to, I think what I’m intrigued with with that, Danielle, is You know, we talk so much about equipoise and try and keep bias out. So I think trying to unpack it from that perspective could be a challenge, but I think it’s very interesting. I have extremely strong political beliefs like many people do and have lots of pretty emotional reactions, to things that are happening locally and, in the United States and globally. So to unpack it from that, from an MI perspective and looking at that, It’ll be a tight rope for us to walk, but I’m, I’m definitely willing to do that. I don’t know what thoughts you have, John. Yeah. Well, what I’m particularly curious about from your perspective in the involvement with the motivational interviewing network of trainers meant, and thinking about that is how much is there this like underlying theoretical philosophical basis to, am I, and how much is, am I a sort of approach that’s ever evolving? With the outcomes. And I just, I think getting oriented to what is the lens we’re even looking through might be helpful for everyone, us talking and others involved to just get oriented. And I say that too, with our time that we were in, at the international training. This year in Copenhagen, there were people talking about integrating more philosophy into MI. And I just think we could be shooting in lots of directions if we don’t kind of get oriented first to what is the lens we’re looking through with this and then maybe going from there. I don’t know, you know, when you say that, that the things that I would clarify pretty quickly is that. Using motivation learning to talk politics is a mismatch because you can use aspects of it to reduce resistance. You may be able to have somebody work through their ambivalence, but I think the caution or almost the red flag in that, not even the yellow flag, is how would you do that if you don’t, if your own bias is involved? Like, how ambivalence towards what you want them to? Do or because they’re trying to resolve something internally. So we’re not going to go down that path of like, how do you use motivation in a political conversation? That is not this conversation. That’s not what we’re going to talk about. Because that’s, that would not be an accurate application of motivational interviewing just based on bias. I think when we step back and look at the construct of motivational interviewing of how do we want to work through our own ambivalence, interacting with people in our lives that may believe differently than we do, or people that we run across that may behave in a way that’s very, Antithetical to the way the things we believe or how we believe people should treat each other. I think those are the things that you can think, how can I be more effective in my interactions in the next period of time as, as the U S is rolling towards, you know, another presidential election. And there’s a lot of political unrest globally as well too. So I think if we can tease that out, I’m pretty excited about, seeing where we can go with that. Easy. Easy. So, well, one, there’s, there’s so many areas to explore here. It’s kind of like what is most salient and that’s part of getting oriented to the, the lens first. So I’m kind of curious for you, Casey or Danielle, what, Rings is most salient to start with, either from an M I perspective or what’s happening locally or globally. What, what, where’s the salience here to kind of hook on? Yeah, I think the thing for me, because I, you know, as I’m preparing for the whole, be the change training. Series, I’m just so immersed in reading different things and and looking at the research of what produces the most change and I’m going to lead into this by saying this isn’t the right way. It’s not the only way. You know, the reason why I’m even leading in with that is I think there. It’s hard for me. I’ve had this conversation in my brain this morning, ironically, that I really believe so strongly in my heart because my mother was such a strong advocate and a fierce advocate for human rights, women’s rights, you know, underserved population, just that was my mother. And she was a force. And I so respected, admired that. But what struck me this morning is that that doesn’t always generate change. In the most effective and efficient way. So how do you tell people not to advocate how not to march for their rights and march where they believe in? Because it’s, that is one of our rights in the United States to be able to do things like that. So that’s why I want to make sure that I’m not saying I’m agreeing, disagreeing, saying this is the right way to do it, or this is the right way to do it, or that’s the wrong way to do it. I just want to preface what there’s lots of right ways.

24 min
03/05/2024

Unpacking Politics: A Dialogue on Politics, Values, and Civility II

About this Episode We hope you found value in part one of this podcast. Thank you for joining us for this second segment. Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. This episode In this engaging episode we delve into the intricate dynamics of political discourse, focusing on the challenges and opportunities for understanding and civility. Through personal anecdotes and discussions on the role of values, mindfulness, and the biological underpinnings of conflict, the hosts explore how individuals can engage in political conversations in a way that respects differing perspectives without compromising their own values. The podcast highlights an innovative civility summit initiative that aims to bridge divides through decisional balance exercises, emphasizing the potential for growth and understanding in political dialogue. The conversation encourages listeners to approach political engagement as an informed choice, rather than a conflict, fostering a more constructive and less confrontational political landscape. The episode concludes with an invitation for listeners to share their own experiences and insights on navigating the complex world of politics with civility and respect. In this podcast, we discuss: Introduction to the Complex World of Political Discourse: The podcast opens by acknowledging the challenges and tensions inherent in political conversations, emphasizing the goal to understand differing perspectives deeply. Personal Anecdote of Political Dialogue: A host shares a personal experience of engaging in a political discussion with a friend, highlighting the importance of seeking to understand opposing views. The Role of Values in Political Beliefs: The discussion explores how personal values shape political opinions, emphasizing the need to recognize and respect the value systems of others. Civility Summit Initiative: One host shares involvement in a civility summit aimed at fostering civil discourse among individuals with divergent political views, using decisional balance exercises to facilitate understanding. Mindfulness in Political Discussions: The conversation turns to the importance of mindfulness and acceptance in political dialogue, promoting a deeper understanding without necessarily agreeing. The Biological Basis of Righteous Indignation: A discussion on how the body’s chemical responses to conflict and righteousness can become addictive, influencing behavior in political discussions. Aligning Behavior with Values: The hosts reflect on the importance of ensuring personal behaviors are consistent with individual values, even in the heat of political debate. The Definition and Nature of Politics: The podcast examines the formal definition of politics as governance and conflict, pondering on how this inherent conflict can be navigated more constructively. Choosing Civility Over Conflict: The dialogue suggests reimagining political engagement as a choice informed by values rather than a battleground, promoting a more thoughtful and less confrontational approach. Invitation for Audience Engagement: The podcast closes by inviting listeners to share their experiences and thoughts on navigating political discussions and maintaining civility. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. Transcribe Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome. To the communication solution that will change your world.Hi everyone. This is Danielle Cantin. I’m your facilitator today with the Communication Solution podcast. And I’m here with your hosts, Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. Hello. Hey guys. Today, I thought we could dive into a compliance situation. When you look at motivational interviewing, oftentimes we’re working in compliance type models and systems. So it makes you think of law enforcement, probation, child welfare. Where’s the benefit in that intersection with motivational interviewing? When you’re looking at these systems and people trying to help other people. Deeply rooted in a, you know, compliance type model. This is a really, really common question that we get, Danielle, because John and I get to train a lot of these, uh, professionals in these types of systems. And there are two ways of thinking about, like, one of the first things we launch into in, in the intro training is differentiating. Between compliance based methods of communication and behavior change based methods of communication. And what’s really fascinating about it is the more data comes out, the data is pretty clear that compliance based. Interventions don’t coincide with long term sustained behavior change. And the example that I always use with people in training is for anyone that’s ever worked with any person that’s been on probation before, especially, you know, years I worked in juvenile probation. What’s one of the first things we know is going to happen as soon as they get off probation? They even say it. One of the first things they’re going to do is go party or use again. Um, and so that could be, they could be on probation for 2 years. And the 1st thing they’re planning on doing is getting messed up or as soon as they’re released from prison or from jail, the 1st thing they plan to do is get messed up. So compliance models do not generate behavior change. Compliance models aren’t bad for what they’re designed for. For a swift punishment, but they are not, they don’t coincide with long term behavior change. So what you start to think about is, if I’m in a compliance based system, how do I use a behavior change based method? And for me, the beauty in this is what we always have control over is we have control over what comes out of our mouth as a professional. We don’t have control over law. We don’t have control over policy. We don’t have control over a court order. We don’t have control over what, you know, has to happen if we need to protect the child, but we have control over what comes out of our mouth and the way things come out of our mouth can actually generate change the whole function. Everybody listening. We know in motivational learning, the whole function in communication. Is to help move from tension or discord or resistance to ambivalence efficiently. And when you’re moving to the ambivalence and helping people resolve ambivalence, you’re helping their brain generate giving this situation in front of you. How do you want to navigate this to get to your best outcome? So even though that rock has dropped in their path, that boulder has dropped in their path. If you’re going to stand on the boulder and say, you can’t go around this boulder. You are going to generate discord if you acknowledge the boulder and drop shoulder to shoulder with the person and look at the boulder and go, how do you want to navigate this reality? This boulder is not going anywhere. Knowing you still want to make it further on your path. So that boulder can be law. It can be policy. It can be a quarter. It can be all sorts of things. But you, you think more from a collaborative place, knowing that the reality is, is those laws and policies are not going to change. So you just, it’s, it’s a shift in mindset is as much as a shift in skill set, John, what are your, I know you’ve got lots of thoughts. Yeah, well, we’ve, we’ve worked with so many different groups and this can get really, you could say, unsupportive and gaslighting and manipulative. If you look at the technique and listen to the technique that you were just giving, and there’s a deeper way of being with and treating someone and trying to support their power that they may or may not want to take on. That you’re getting at there where, you know, you had moved into getting shoulder to shoulder and asking a question for the 1st basic step, which is. To not tell to not should on them, but instead to ask how they see getting around. Right. But in the trainings, we really talk about shoulder to shoulder giving voice to what it must be like the unfairness, the sense of B. S. This is the sense of whatever they’re going through. But I’m, I’m highlighting that because that’s another skill and there’s other skills we could get into here with him. I, but all of the skills are on a certain way of how I treat you. I think it’s important to talk about that with what we’re, you know, talking about with the different eight factors of. Helpful helpers of like, how am I treating you? Am I treating you from a place of you are a complex human with choices that you could make? Or am I treating you in a way that’s trying to take your choice from you? Am I treating you from a place that you have to do this? Or am I treating you from a place that there’s lots of ways if you want to approach this rock as you were saying Casey However, it doesn’t mean that in that moment that rock is going to move But

28 min
03/05/2024

Unpacking Politics: A Dialogue on Politics, Values, and Civility I

About this Episode Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. In this engaging episode we delve into the intricate dynamics of political discourse, focusing on the challenges and opportunities for understanding and civility. Through personal anecdotes and discussions on the role of values, mindfulness, and the biological underpinnings of conflict, the hosts explore how individuals can engage in political conversations in a way that respects differing perspectives without compromising their own values. The podcast highlights an innovative civility summit initiative that aims to bridge divides through decisional balance exercises, emphasizing the potential for growth and understanding in political dialogue. The conversation encourages listeners to approach political engagement as an informed choice, rather than a conflict, fostering a more constructive and less confrontational political landscape. The episode concludes with an invitation for listeners to share their own experiences and insights on navigating the complex world of politics with civility and respect. In this podcast, we discuss: Introduction to the Challenge of Discussing Politics: The podcast opens with an acknowledgment of the complexities and sensitivities involved in political discussions and the intention to explore these through the lens of motivational interviewing (MI). The Risks and Rewards of Political Discourse: The hosts express excitement and caution about delving into such a contentious topic, emphasizing the importance of setting protective guidelines for a respectful dialogue. Motivational Interviewing and Political Conversations: The discussion clarifies that MI is not intended to change political opinions but can be used to navigate personal ambivalence and improve interactions with others who hold differing views. Exploring Political Beliefs with Empathy and Acceptance: The hosts discuss the potential of MI principles like empathy, acceptance, and positive regard to facilitate more constructive political conversations and reduce conflict. The Influence of Unconscious Bias: The conversation touches on the challenge of recognizing and setting aside unconscious biases to truly listen and understand opposing viewpoints. The Biological Basis of Strong Political Reactions: A shift towards the physiological and biological explanations for the intense emotions and reactions often observed in political debates. Aligning Political Engagement with Personal Values: The hosts reflect on the importance of ensuring one’s political actions and discussions are in alignment with their broader value system. The Psychological and Biological Drivers of Political Behavior: A deeper dive into how human psychology and basic survival instincts may underpin political beliefs and behaviors. Considering Politics from a Survival Perspective: The discussion explores the idea that political affiliations and conflicts might be rooted in fundamental survival instincts, such as assessing threats and allies. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! This has been part one of a two-part podcast. We hope you’ll join us for the second portion. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. Transcribe Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome. To the communication solution that will change your world. Hi everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin, your facilitator of the Communication Solution Podcast, and I’m here with Casey Jackson, your host, and John Gilbert. How are you guys? Awesome. Well, we’re here to talk about basically the communication solution, but really weaving in all of the principles and theories around motivational interviewing, this incredible evidence based practice that has me mesmerized by the results and outcomes that it’s able to achieve in people’s lives. What I’d love to dive into today for a topic is, one that typically you’re advised not to talk about, which is politics. Yeah, I was, I was hoping and thinking, you know, what if we use this podcast in this time together to talk about and unpack the complexities around politics and how can we look at that topic through the lens of motivational interviewing? How does that sound? That is a very tight needle to thread, for sure. Sounds risky, which makes me want to do it twice as much. With protection, which means that we’re putting some kind of guidelines to, I think what I’m intrigued with with that, Danielle, is You know, we talk so much about equipoise and try and keep bias out. So I think trying to unpack it from that perspective could be a challenge, but I think it’s very interesting. I have extremely strong political beliefs like many people do and have lots of pretty emotional reactions, to things that are happening locally and, in the United States and globally. So to unpack it from that, from an MI perspective and looking at that, It’ll be a tight rope for us to walk, but I’m, I’m definitely willing to do that. I don’t know what thoughts you have, John. Yeah. Well, what I’m particularly curious about from your perspective in the involvement with the motivational interviewing network of trainers meant, and thinking about that is how much is there this like underlying theoretical philosophical basis to, am I, and how much is, am I a sort of approach that’s ever evolving? With the outcomes. And I just, I think getting oriented to what is the lens we’re even looking through might be helpful for everyone, us talking and others involved to just get oriented. And I say that too, with our time that we were in, at the international training. This year in Copenhagen, there were people talking about integrating more philosophy into MI. And I just think we could be shooting in lots of directions if we don’t kind of get oriented first to what is the lens we’re looking through with this and then maybe going from there. I don’t know, you know, when you say that, that the things that I would clarify pretty quickly is that. Using motivation learning to talk politics is a mismatch because you can use aspects of it to reduce resistance. You may be able to have somebody work through their ambivalence, but I think the caution or almost the red flag in that, not even the yellow flag, is how would you do that if you don’t, if your own bias is involved? Like, how ambivalence towards what you want them to? Do or because they’re trying to resolve something internally. So we’re not going to go down that path of like, how do you use motivation in a political conversation? That is not this conversation. That’s not what we’re going to talk about. Because that’s, that would not be an accurate application of motivational interviewing just based on bias. I think when we step back and look at the construct of motivational interviewing of how do we want to work through our own ambivalence, interacting with people in our lives that may believe differently than we do, or people that we run across that may behave in a way that’s very, Antithetical to the way the things we believe or how we believe people should treat each other. I think those are the things that you can think, how can I be more effective in my interactions in the next period of time as, as the U S is rolling towards, you know, another presidential election. And there’s a lot of political unrest globally as well too. So I think if we can tease that out, I’m pretty excited about, seeing where we can go with that. Easy. Easy. So, well, one, there’s, there’s so many areas to explore here. It’s kind of like what is most salient and that’s part of getting oriented to the, the lens first. So I’m kind of curious for you, Casey or Danielle, what, Rings is most salient to start with, either from an M I perspective or what’s happening locally or globally. What, what, where’s the salience here to kind of hook on? Yeah, I think the thing for me, because I, you know, as I’m preparing for the whole, be the change training. Series, I’m just so immersed in reading different things and and looking at the research of what produces the most change and I’m going to lead into this by saying this isn’t the right way. It’s not the only way. You know, the reason why I’m even leading in with that is I think there. It’s hard for me. I’ve had this conversation in my brain this morning, ironically, that I really believe so strongly in my heart because my mother was such a strong advocate and a fierce advocate for human rights, women’s rights, you know, underserved population, just that was my mother. And she was a force. And I so respected, admired that. But what struck me this morning is that that doesn’t always generate change. In the most effective and efficient way. So how do you tell people not to advocate how not to march for their rights and march where they believe in? Because it’s, that is one of our rights in the United States to be able to do things like that. So that’s why I want

33 min
02/29/2024

Gaining Insights and Gaining Clarity in Motivational Interviewing

About this Episode Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. The podcast features a guest, Falin Wilson, a counselor at OnTrack Academy, who shares his experiences and revelations in applying motivational interviewing techniques in his work with youth. The conversation navigates the intricacies of effective communication, the impact of empathetic listening, and the journey of guiding individuals towards their own solutions and success. In this podcast, we discuss: Understanding Motivational Interviewing: Exploring its importance in effective communication and its application in real-world scenarios. The Journey of Learning MI: Falin Wilson shares his transition from academic knowledge to practical application of motivational interviewing. The Art of Conversation in MI: Discussing how motivational interviewing is akin to having a natural conversation, tuning into the individual’s thoughts and emotions. Navigating Ambivalence: Strategies for addressing and embracing ambivalence in conversations. The Impact of Double-Sided Reflection: Utilizing this technique to prompt individuals to explore their own solutions and desires. Integrating Brain Science: Discussing how understanding brain functions enhances the effectiveness of motivational interviewing. Recognizing Resistance and Change Talk: Identifying these key elements in conversations and using them to guide individuals towards their goals. Professional Responsibility in Communication: Emphasizing the importance of not imposing one’s own narrative but facilitating the client’s self-exploration. Empathy and Focus in MI: Highlighting the role of empathy in understanding the individual’s perspective and maintaining focus on their goals. Building Pathways to Success: Discussing how motivational interviewing helps in constructing mental and emotional pathways that lead to personal success and change. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. Transcribe Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Canton here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome. To the communication solution that will change your world. Hello, this is Casey Jackson back for another communication solution. And I’ve got a guest on here, Falin Wilson. He is a counselor at OnTrack Academy. Working with youth in, in the school system and alternative school. And Falin’s been through, A few trainings with me and he’s one of those guys that, will come up a break and come up after the class is over and ask really pointed questions and wants to know the answer. And so I said, Falin, would you come on to the podcast and ask some of those questions that you’d like to ask from training? So, so good to have you here, Falin. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. They were always never meant to be pointed, but I, definitely wanted to know some of those, those, answers. Yes. So what’s been your intrigue? Because you do, you know, even in the more recent training that we had, I can see your brain in the room really genuinely doing application and processing. What, what draws you into motivational more viewing or the concepts and. And get your brain to start to chew on it more because I watch you process it in the training, and, and trying to integrate it more. I mean, what, what’s going through your head? I mean, why does this integrate for you? Why does this resonate with you? I think when I was in graduate school, we were learning about it. I thought it was kind of interesting, but it never really caught my attention. And then we went to, so Spokane Public Schools offered a MI training through you and I was like, okay, I’ll try it. And the way that you approached the whole MI aspect, kind of like a brain, like a view of the brain, and kind of breaking it down that way was probably the most helpful I’ve ever seen it. And that was really intriguing to me, because you said that it’s a conversation. It’s just like, you’re having a conversation with somebody, right, and you’re tuning into what they’re saying, and then you’re trying to navigate from that. And I found that to be, like, the most fascinating thing ever, just because, like, you’re working with the brain. And you’re trying to figure out where it’s at and all this processing. And I think the more that I continue to learn about it, I was like, there’s this really thing, the awesome thing that Casey’s doing, I just don’t know how to implement it. So the second time I came back and we kind of, you kind of like walked us through more of like some of that advanced and then kind of going over that, like beginner stuff again, I found that really helpful because it kind of just solidified, like. It really is a conversation and you can do it in a few minutes. And even though it’s really hard sometimes, like anybody can build these skills, but it’s, I think that we’re so bad at communicating. I feel that we really are. And I was like, well, I would love to just learn better ways of being like a better person, like better communicator. That’s great. It’s, it’s interesting too, because I, if I’ve heard this often that especially kind of the college version or, you know, grad school version of motivational meaning doesn’t catch like, there’s something there. But then people don’t tend to gravitate it towards it as much what I hear in a lot of my trainings. And so, I think once you get into the real world and you’re working in the real world, you can start to see some of that crosswalk between some of the core constructs and then look at it as just kind of, how does this work? I, my favorite thing is always based in reality, like based in reality, how would this really work? I mean, you’ve got, you work with kids that struggle, you know, with in an alternative. Amazing wraparound in high school. I know that I know that program fairly well. I’ve done training for on track. What I think of is when you’re in those conversations, what are some things that you see almost cross reference between like, wow, like, this is a moment like I can see now from what I’ve learned to the way that this new vantage point I’m looking at it from what do you notice with either, you know, the colleagues you work with or with the students you work with? Things you’re starting to notice more while I’m using, am I, yeah, or opportunities to the missed opportunities. Like after the fact there was this really fun one. I was working with a student who uses substances, right. And I had asked that question at the end of the seminar. I was just like, how do you, like you get them to wrap their arms around it, or you wrap their arms around their tree tire, right? Yeah. Cause like you want to double down on the, like sustained talk before they do. Yes. I was like, it seems so counterintuitive, right? But like, the way he had talked about it was so good. So I was like, okay, like, like, what the hell? Like, I’ll give it a shot. So I was like, okay. So I go in with my client and I’m like, you know that you’re never gonna, like, you know that you’re not gonna use, or sorry, you know that you’re gonna continue to use and that you’re not gonna quit. Like, what would that even look like? You know that you’re not though. And she was like, I know that I’m not. And then she gave me the solution, like, she was like, that could look like this. And then the example she gave was like, cutting down to, to smoking, like, two to three times a week instead of every day. So I was like, oh my gosh, like, that’s awesome. Um. And then sometimes I found it kind of difficult to, like, double down often, like, So, like, using substances, right, I can be like, Oh, you know that you’re not gonna stop using, like, what would that even look like? And, like, wrap their arms tighter. But I don’t know other scenarios where, like, I could try to apply that. Or I guess I struggle with trying to identify them. Because I see the potential and how helpful it is. Right. Because you’re getting the brain to engage in change. Talk. I guess I’m just trying to figure out like how else I can apply that. Like, those would be some of the missed opportunities if that makes sense. It does. I think what the, and the population you work with, the thing I think of too is at least what I hear quite a bit about and with youth that I work with is just around sex as well too. Or, you know, just some of those situations what you’re thinking when I think about it through the M. I. lens and. And how to make it an organic conversation that doesn’t feel like you’re trying to use a technique, you know, and you can see how organic it sounds when it’s like, you know, you’re never gonna stop smoking weed. You know, you’re never gonna stop using. So that’s that’s yours. But if you did, what might it change here? It’s that part just. It allows the sustained talk to feel so heard and understood that it just opens the door to allow change to come in. Because, you know, when I think of youth, I think of anybody, when I think of youth,

33 min
02/27/2024

Focus Mountain: Climbing Towards Behavioral Change

About this Episode Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. In this episode we delve into the complexities of sustaining behavioral changes beyond the initial enthusiasm of the new year. They explore the intersection of motivation, environment, and identity in shaping our ability to maintain new habits. This episode offers a blend of personal anecdotes, motivational interviewing techniques, and practical strategies for long-term change, making it an invaluable resource for anyone looking to transform their approach to personal goals and well-being. In this podcast, we discuss: Understanding Motivation: The discussion on the significance of ‘Focus Mountain’ as a metaphor for setting and achieving goals. Sustaining New Year Resolutions: Strategies to keep up with resolutions past the excitement of January. Role of Environment in Behavior Change: Insights on how our surroundings influence our ability to sustain changes. Emotional Connection with Future Self: Exploration of how our future aspirations can motivate present actions. Overcoming Deprivation Mindset: Techniques to shift from a mindset of deprivation to one of lifestyle change. The Importance of Small Steps: Emphasizing the power of starting with minimal, manageable actions. Identity and Behavioral Change: Discussion on how changes in self-perception can impact habit formation and maintenance. Celebrating Progress and Finding Joy: The importance of acknowledging small wins and incorporating joy in the journey of change. Leveraging Personal Relationships: How relationships can motivate and challenge us in our journey towards personal improvement. Agency and Informed Choice: The role of agency in behavioral change and the importance of being well-informed in decision-making. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. Transcribe Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome. To the communication solution that will change your world. Hey everyone. It’s Danielle Cantin here with the Communication Solution podcast. And I am with your hosts, Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. Hey Casey. Hey John. Hey. Hey. Glad to have you here. I am looking forward to helping our audience and myself secretly, not, or not so secretly, figure out how to navigate the new year. And how do you actually sustain? Behavior. So I’m thinking ahead February 1st, March 1st, because everything’s kind of fun and glamorous in January. And seems attainable. But we’ve talked in other podcasts episodes about, kind of setting up the goals and change, you know, things that you might want to achieve in the new year. And this seems like a great segue to, to talk about how to, how to sustain those changes. What are your thoughts? You know, I’ll, I’ll, I’m going to take this off just because I’ll do the conceptual. And then John gets into the, you know, he’s got the brilliant brain for the technical side of it. The thing I think of Danielle is that it’s like prepping for the climb. And this is why, you know, the focus mountain, focus, mountain, focus, mountain, focus, mountain, focus, mountain. Like that’s, that’s my reset button is focus mountain. And so we were thinking about is, you know, November hits and you have a great Thanksgiving and you know what, I’m starting my diet January 1st anyway. So I’m just going to enjoy the holidays. And then Christmas comes and Christmas cookies and the, all the little treats on the doorstep. And, but then in January, January 1st, it’s going to, then New Year’s Eve. It’s like, okay, I’m going to party it up. But because January 1st, because all we see is the top of the mountain, we’re starting to get focused on why it’s important to me, motive is huge, you know? And, and when we give ourselves so much permission to go there. It’s almost like our own patents, like on the flip side, it’s like, you know, I’m just going to give myself permission and then I’m going to do, you know. Eight days a week, I’m going to be doing CrossFit for two hours a day because I’m going to, I’m going to do it like, you know, but, but that’s why I’m going to eat the extra pumpkin pie and with extra rooftop, like, oh, yes, and just a few more extra drinks, that I think that whole thing about I am packed, I am loaded, I’ve got my backpack in the corner, I’ve got everything in there, I bought new stuff, like I am climbing this mountain, So that’s the way that I look at motive in motivational interviewing, because we’re so clear the top of the mountain and I have got the latest equipment because this is the year, this is the year I’m going to hit the peak. And then after one, I have to interject because I can’t stop laughing, but it’s almost like the visual you just created for me. It’s that I’m on the base, base of the mountain, and here’s the top and I’ve got a plan. To just blink myself up there on whatever day, fully prepared and completely escaping. That’s exactly it. And that’s why the sustainability, the motive, people know how to whip up motive, you know, we can listen to podcasts. We can, you know, get inspired by things we can, you know, buy these diet plans and I’m going to do meal prep and I’m going to, you know, have them deliver my meals to me and I am going to nail it. Like this is it, you know, and I, I’ve heard about this personal trainer. And then you’re day four into your first fast and you’re like, I hate this. And then you’re supposed to get up in the morning and go to the personal trainer and you’re like, and I hate him, or I hate turnover. I hate them. . And then it’s just like, now you’re week two and you’re like, God, I, how have I gained five pounds? I stopped two weeks ago and I’ve gained five pounds. And it’s like, and this backpack, why did I pack so much crap in here? Like I didn’t need a. gold plated canteen. So I’m ditching that thing. And then you’re sitting on the stump rubbing your feet going, why the hell am I climbing in the first place? So that’s the Casey version of trying to sustain behavior change from a focused mountain perspective. Now let john jump in and give you all that. The technical aspects of what just happened when I give you the visual aspects of what just happened. Oh my gosh, Casey, well, well laid out for a definite, yes, relatable laying out of all the parameters here. Well, yeah, ultimately, oh my gosh, there’s so much in what you said, but ultimately it seems to be that we have this intrinsic motivation, right? This, Oh, I’m going to do it. I’m going to get, I’m going to get up there. I’m going to do this thing. And it’s really. It’s serving us because it justifies us feeling satisfied in the moment to indulge to be like, yes, I get to do this thing because then I’ll do this other thing and it’s this really interesting mental gymnastics of we tend to want to be Having our short term gratification and our long term gratification, at least that’s one way to perceive it. And I’m wondering both of your thoughts on this Casey and Danielle, but this sense of we want that short term gratification and sometimes that long term gratification of really being fit and healthy. It just doesn’t have the same intrinsic draw as the pumpkin pie, as the next drink, as the whatever, as the giving our future self that sense of well being is just harder to emotionally connect with and feel. And it’s just seems to be that blockage of we do know the next drink. We do know the next dessert gives us that emotional. Yeah. And it seems like that sense of whatever that emotional draw is and how much we can do the mental gymnastics to get past having to have some delayed gratification seems to be something I’ve noticed for myself and In my and other things, when we talk about values and the value of well being, that’s wonderful. The value of Casey being around for your kids even more potent. And and there’s some more potency to it, but it still means you got to give yourself that future that future self. That delayed gratification in the now, and that is just so hard to do for a number of reasons. But that’s what I was sensing in the, the rawness and the relatability of what you shared. No, one of the first thing you learned in biology too. I mean, even in middle school, biology is human beings and animals, you know. Head towards pleasure and avoid pain. So it’s way easier to head towards the second piece of pumpkin pie. And it is very avoidant that my body hurts when I work out like this is hurting me right now. So there’s that also just that, that part of us that as creatures, it makes sense why things unfold the way that they do. Is there anything that, because your description, John really made me feel a little bit better about it. Cause I’m like. I, I just don’t connect emotionally with that future self. Like I can, but the only way I can do that is to remember, maybe pull something from the past. That was like, Oh, I remember when I did that and I felt s

39 min
02/22/2024

Strength in Crisis: Navigating Trauma with Motivational Interviewing

About this Episode Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve. In this episode, we discuss the critical role of communication in handling traumatic situations, especially in the school system amidst threats and violence. The episode delves into how motivational interviewing can offer guidance and support during crises, focusing on Casey’s personal experience with his children in a school lockdown. It emphasizes the importance of managing reactions, choosing between fear and rational thinking, and the impact of these choices on others, particularly children. In this podcast, we discuss: Casey’s Personal Experience: A recounting of a school lockdown involving Casey’s children, offering a real-world context for the discussion. Managing Parental Fear: Insights into how parents can handle their trauma responses while supporting their children during crises. The Duality of Reaction: Exploring the struggle between emotional reactions and the need for rational action in emergencies. Applying MI in Trauma: Discussing how motivational interviewing principles can be adapted in traumatic situations, particularly in school environments. Advocacy vs. Change: Balancing the desire to advocate for change with the need to create constructive outcomes. Empathy and Understanding: The importance of entering others’ worlds empathetically, even in traumatic contexts. Consequences and Compliance: How motivational interviewing can help in framing consequences and compliance in a more constructive manner. Feeding Fear or Faith: The concept of choosing which emotions to feed during a crisis – fear or faith. Role of Educators and Staff: Guidance for teachers and school staff in stabilizing situations and providing support to students. Empowering Through Communication: Strategies for empowering individuals and communities to deal effectively with trauma through effective communication. You don’t want to miss this one! Make sure to rate us or share this podcast. It would mean so much to us! Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com. Transcribe Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication, we love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome. To the communication solution that will change your world. Hi everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin. I’m here on the Communication Solution podcast, and I am joined by Casey Jackson, your host and expert in motivational interviewing. How are you, Casey? I’m doing pretty well. Awesome. Well, I’m excited about this episode. We’re looking at, Basically, what’s happening in school systems. I had a question for you around motivational interviewing and the communication solution when, you know, in the news, you hear about all of the challenges in school systems, and how they’re trying to keep kids safe and how they’re exposed to obviously guns and violence and threats. And what I really enjoy, about the way that you train and the way your brain works is that, you know, how to take an idea from kind of the ivory tower discussions and make it very tangible and real. And I don’t know if that’s the visual part of myself that you just tell stories in a way that I get. And then I also. Retain and it helps me relate to things. So I was hoping we could dive into an experience that I know you just went through recently with your kids in the school system as it relates to how motivational interviewing might be able to help be a guide in situations where. Kids are, in school systems and parents, everybody’s affected by the potential threat and the actual threats that are happening in the school system. Yeah, it’s, I mean, at least I’ve had a day to process it now. Yeah. So, so what had happened was yesterday morning, you know, I get, first I get the texts from my daughters that they’re, they’re in lockdown and freaking out. They were separated, they’re twins and they were separated. So one is with her boyfriend and they’re in one room. And then my, the other daughter is with two of her friends and they’re both texting me scared because they’re in lockdown and they know that there’s a potential, threat. Either in the building or outside of the building, you know, and then, then I get the emergency alert on my phone, from the school district saying that they’re in lockdown, you know, and then about, I’m just so blessed that I have friends that work in that school. So I immediately text them, and. Hoping that they’ll respond in the middle of the crisis. And they did. I mean, immediately, which is amazing that, you know, and gave me kind of the scenario. And then some other teachers had texted separately and let us know what was going on that we knew. And, and it’s hard because when the. The girls are freaking out as would make sense. And trying to stay calm and, you know, I’m just so in dad brain in that moment, it is hard to, to, you know, what’s the right thing to do? You know, how can I be supportive? And, you know, they, they say, you know, parents don’t come to the school. You know, law enforcement’s involved, stay, please stay away from the area. And, and then it’s just the, as I get more information from people who know what’s going on, there was, a man with a rifle outside of their school, and it just caused all sorts of reactions in me and. You know, just anger and frustration and, you know, that gets into politics and all these other things that, that, that my brain just wants to go to just, you know, angry and emotional. And, and then I think about some of the things that I literally, I mean, because I, I talk about this stuff every single day, I get to train every day and then my brain goes through kind of the, the practical side of how I look at motivational interviewing, which is, you know, there’s nothing wrong with being angry and advocating. Doesn’t necessarily change behavior, not that advocacy doesn’t change behavior, but in most situations we look at when we go into a hard advocacy position, you tend to generate hard opposition pretty quickly. And that’s where my brain just continues to go through, you know, where’s the source of discord? Where’s the source of writing reflex? Then there’s the dad part of me. It’s like, I don’t care. I don’t give a f k. I don’t care. You know, these are my babies and, and this is insanity. And when is the insanity going to stop? Like, I can’t handle this anymore. Like this is just, you know, and, and knowing just kind of where people’s brains are at in the communities that I live in, that it just triggered a whole lot of things for me. And I remember, you know, when I was kind of driving towards the school and, and kind of in that hovering moment of, you know, staying back. But if I need to go there and pick up a girl, so I’m going to be right there to get them, the thing that went through my brain is, do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy? And, and if I want to be happy, that means I need to create change in a way that’s productive and not react from my emotions, which is really hard not to do when you’re, you know, every parenting instinct gets triggered and, you know, you’re ready to fly over there and, and. Take that gunman out yourself. Like, it’s just like, I can’t, you know, you’re not going to hurt my kids. You’re not going to hurt these kids. So it’s just fascinating that my brain that’s in this reactive mode and emotional mode and, and its own trauma response in the moment has this whole other lecturer part in my brain just going, okay, now let’s deconstruct this as I’m sitting in the car next to the sidewalk, just going, okay, you know, it’s wild. So that was, that was, you know, part of the experience from yesterday. That’s a really good point. That you mentioned about advocacy. Casey is, advocacy is great. And the truth of it is, is that it can create opposition. And so you went directly to, what is that behavior? What, what is, what’s the end result you want to achieve? Is it be happy or be right? And you had to make a decision. And then from there, you could align your behavior. To, okay, what can I do to achieve that end? Is that an accurate, assessment? Yeah, and it’s the things that I think of where I want to react or, you know, maybe from an outside perspective, overreact. And even when I was thinking about just. How angry I was and how emotional I was, I know what happens when you take that to a school board meeting or, you know, you get people whipped up in a frenzy and there’ll be on your side and just, and then you see the counterbalance to the opposite side of that, that whips up in a frenzy. And it just, it comes again, you know, I love what Miller talks about with the writing reflex. It comes from a heart of wanting to help, but when you have those writing reflexes. It’s nearly mathematic that you’re going to get an equal and opposite energy generated. So how do we navigate that in a way that perpetuates ambivalence versus perpetuates resistance? And so this, I think there’s, you know, always get questions. People ask me questions all the time about, can you use it in a family setting? Can yo

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4.8

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9 Ratings

Motivational Interviewing is nothing short of amazing

04/28/2021

kelly.stenka

This content is so refreshing. If you find yourself always “reacting” or trying to “fix” people’s perceived problems and you don’t ever really feel like you’ve helped, you need to listen to this. Whether you use MI in a leadership/work setting, at home, with a spouse, etc., it will allow for better, open, honest communication and create such a better environment to be a part of. Thank you guys for sharing this awesome information. We’re all better because of it.

Changing the way we see communication. Teaching evidence based communication skills.

Creator

The IFIOC-Casey Jackson
Years Active

2019 - 2024
Episodes

100
Rating

Clean
Show Website

The Communication Solution

The Communication Solution

Resolving Challenges in Behavioral Health

Jury Duty Insights: Empathy and Civic Duty in the Courtroom

Navigating Compliance and Empowerment in Professional Settings

Unpacking Politics: A Dialogue on Politics, Values, and Civility II

Unpacking Politics: A Dialogue on Politics, Values, and Civility I

Gaining Insights and Gaining Clarity in Motivational Interviewing

Focus Mountain: Climbing Towards Behavioral Change

Strength in Crisis: Navigating Trauma with Motivational Interviewing

Ratings & Reviews

Motivational Interviewing is nothing short of amazing

About

Information

The Communication Solution

Episodes

Resolving Challenges in Behavioral Health

Jury Duty Insights: Empathy and Civic Duty in the Courtroom

Navigating Compliance and Empowerment in Professional Settings

Unpacking Politics: A Dialogue on Politics, Values, and Civility II

Unpacking Politics: A Dialogue on Politics, Values, and Civility I

Gaining Insights and Gaining Clarity in Motivational Interviewing

Focus Mountain: Climbing Towards Behavioral Change

Strength in Crisis: Navigating Trauma with Motivational Interviewing

Ratings & Reviews

About

Information