The Ethically Immoral Podcast

Hosted by: Mike Payne
  • 5.0 (8)
  • Performing Arts
  • Updated Weekly

The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.   It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.  

  1. 1h ago

    Volume Seven: Chapter Eleven - Our Conversation with Molly Peacock

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Eleven we welcomed Buffalo, New York-born, Toronto-based Poet, Essayist, Educator, Biographer, and Author Molly Peacock. She earned her BA from Harpur College at Binghamton University and her MA from Johns Hopkins University. She has served as president of the Poetry Society of America, founded The Best Canadian Poetry series after moving to Canada, and her literary papers are housed at the Binghamton University Library. Molly is the author of numerous poetry collections, works of prose, and the memoir Paradise, Piece by Piece. Her latest collection is The Widow's Crayon Box. In our conversation, we explore the creative foundation shaped by a family where books and writing were woven into everyday life. Molly reflects on her mother's voracious reading habits, her grandmother's lifelong practice of writing alongside the routines of daily life, and the teachers and mentors who encouraged her to think of herself as a writer long before she fully believed it herself. We also trace her evolution as both an artist and a person, discussing what it meant to become the first in her family to attend college, the confidence she discovered during her years at Johns Hopkins, and how formal poetry became less about following rules than finding a structure capable of holding life's most powerful emotions. Finally, we explore The Widow's Crayon Box, a collection born from the loss of her husband that reveals the many colors of widowhood rather than the single shade society often imagines. Molly reflects on the first twenty-eight days following his passing, the moment she realized she was beginning what she calls "the turn" into widowhood, and how the poems emerged naturally as a way to process grief, preserve love, and transform profound loss into art.  Contact Molly: Instagram: @mollypeacockpoet        Website: mollypeacock.org  Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Arantza Garcia – Recipe Book Instagram: @arantza.cgf Ghetto Jedi The Poet – I Am Metaphor Ayanna Florence – Boy Calls Me Pretty Instagram: @poetnextdoor          Blog: poetnextdoor.medium.com Rundy Francisco – My Honesty Poem Instagram: @rudyfrancisco         Website: iamrudyfransicso.com Alyesha Wise – Flowers Instagram: @alyeshawise            Website: alyeshawise.com Support the show

    Volume Seven: Chapter Eleven - Our Conversation with Molly Peacock

  2. 6d ago

    Volume Seven: Chapter Ten - Our Conversation with Isabelle Correa

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Ten of the Program,  we welcome Poet, Educator, and Author Isabelle Correa for an in-depth and thoughtful conversation about identity, faith, family, healing, and the long, often complicated journey toward becoming a writer. Born in Moses Lake, Washington, Isabelle reflects on growing up in a household with twelve siblings, navigating feelings of loneliness despite never being alone, and being raised in a religious home where certain paths in life seemed predetermined. She shares how an early engagement, an unexpected change in direction, and a willingness to imagine a different future ultimately led her toward writing. Our conversation explores her beginnings in creative nonfiction and her eventual discovery that poetry offered something narrative could not. We also discuss reclaiming spirituality outside organized religion, writing through trauma without forcing resolution, and allowing flawed, vulnerable voices to exist honestly on the page. Along the way, Isabelle talks about the importance of writing communities, and how workshops, mentorship, and organizations like Gather Poets helped shape her development as a writer. We also discuss  her forthcoming collection, Portrait of a Person Who Pushes Love Away in Fear of Losing It and Other Poems, and the winding path that brought her from Washington State to Mexico City. Contact Isabelle: Instagram @isabellecorreawrites        Website: isabellecorrea.com  Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  A Glowing Poet – Love, Eventually Instagram: @aglowingpoet          Website: thewomaniambecoming.com  Daniel Garwood – Hangman Instagram: @doowrag.daniel        Website: danielleegarwood.com Shay The Poet – The First Time I Hated Myself Instagram: @shay.thepoet  Matt Capone – Some Love Shit Instagram: @matt__capone Yex– Man Vs. Bear Instagram: @yass_yex Support the show

    Volume Seven: Chapter Ten - Our Conversation with Isabelle Correa

  3. Jun 29

    Volume Seven: Chapter Nine - Our Conversation with Blair Trewartha

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Nine of the Podcast, we welcomed Clinton, Ontario-born and London, Ontario-based Educator, Writer, Author, and Poet Blair Trewartha. The author of three chapbooks and two full-length poetry collections, including the recently released Half-Earth, Blair joins me for his first appearance on the program to discuss a collection more than a decade in the making. We begin by celebrating the release of Half-Earth, reflecting on the excitement surrounding its launch, the warm reception it has received, and what it means to finally share a new full-length collection twelve years after his Relit Award-shortlisted debut, Easy Fix. From there, Blair discusses how becoming a father fundamentally reshaped both his life and his writing, explaining how conversations with his two sons unexpectedly became some of the emotional foundations of the new book. Together, we explore how parenthood transformed his understanding of skepticism, compassion, mortality, and the uncertain future his children will inherit in a world shaped by climate anxiety and rapid technological change. Our conversation then turns back to Blair's creative beginnings. Growing up on a farm outside Clinton, Ontario, he reflects on the rural landscape that continues to influence his imagination and the lasting impact of the nearby Goderich salt mine. He discusses how the stories shared by family members and friends who worked in the mine left a deep impression, leading us into a discussion about the importance of listening, oral storytelling, and the fascination with other people's stories, which evolved into a desire to tell his own through poetry. Contact Blair: Instagram @btrewart         Purchase Half-Earth: Here  Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Meccamorphosis – Penny Dreadfuls Instagram: @meccamorphosis          Website: meccamorphosis.com  Leah V – Yours Instagram: @leahvspeaks          Website: leahvspeaks.com  Mike Rosen – When God Happens Instagram: @heymikerosen  Sonya Renee Taylor – My Body Is Not An Apology Instagram: @sonyareneetaylor  Steven Willis – The Hustle Speaks Instagram: @stevenwillispoetry          Website: stevenwillispoetry.com  Support the show

    Volume Seven: Chapter Nine - Our Conversation with Blair Trewartha

  4. Jun 22

    Volume Seven: Chapter Eight - Our Conversation with Dasha Kelly

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Eight of the Program, we welcome Milwaukee, Wisconsin-born and based Writer, Poet, Storyteller, Author, Performance Poet, Teaching Artist, and Creative Change Agent Dasha Kelly. A former Milwaukee Poet Laureate and Wisconsin's first Black Poet Laureate, Dasha has spent decades building community through the power of story, imagination, and creative expression. During our conversation, Dasha reflects on her early years as a self-described curious kid, arts-and-crafts enthusiast, and natural storyteller. We discuss the role her mother played in encouraging her creative pursuits, her early interest in fiction writing, and how a fascination with psychology and human behavior ultimately intersected with her lifelong love of storytelling. Dasha shares her journey into poetry, including her initial resistance to the form before eventually embracing it as a powerful vehicle for exploration and connection. We talk about her creative process, how she determines whether an idea belongs in poetry, fiction, or nonfiction, and the ways those forms often overlap in her work. We also examine the evolution of Milwaukee's literary community through Dasha's eyes, comparing her reflections from the early 2000s to the thriving creative culture she helped cultivate over the years. She speaks candidly about community building, connection, and the profound impact of bringing together people from different backgrounds through shared artistic experiences. Contact Dasha: Website: dashakelly.com          Instagram: @dasha_kelly   Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Porsha O. – Trigger Instagram: @porshaolayiwola          Website: porshaolayiwola.com  Barbara Fant – Medicine Instagram: @iambarbarafant          Website: barbarafant.com Black Chakra –I Spit Fire Instagram: @blackchakra88  Ariana Brown – Supremacy Instagram: @arianathepoet         Website: arianabrown.com  Javon Johnson – Shotgun Instagram: @javonism Support the show

    Volume Seven: Chapter Eight - Our Conversation with Dasha Kelly

  5. Jun 1

    Volume Seven: Chapter Seven - Our Conversation with Jennifer LoveGrove

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Seven of the podcast, we welcome Dunnville, Ontario-born and Toronto-based Writer, Author, and Poet Jennifer LoveGrove. Jennifer is the author of four full-length poetry collections and the novel Watch How We Walk, which was long-listed for the Giller Prize. Her poetry collection Beautiful Children with Pet Foxes was long-listed for the Raymond Souster Award, and her newest collection, The Tinder Sonnets, is available now via Bookhug Press.  In our conversation, we discuss Jennifer's creative history—from childhood creativity and growing up with a typewriter and lamp-chair writing setup, to the lasting influence of religion and the sense of outsiderhood that shaped both her worldview and artistic voice. We discuss her movement between fiction and poetry, whether those creative instincts originate from the same creative space, and the realities of maintaining a writing practice beyond romantic ideas of inspiration.  Jennifer speaks candidly about discipline, resistance, self-doubt, and the emotional terrain of writing—why first drafts can feel exhausting, what revision gives back, and whether satisfaction comes from the act of writing itself or from seeing something new brought into existence.  We also spend time discussing The Tinder Sonnets—a collection based on Jennifer’s experiences navigating dating apps and modern relationships in middle age. Our conversation touches on vulnerability, confession, female desire, misogyny in contemporary dating culture, and the expectations society places on women as they age. Jennifer reflects on writing openly about intimacy and emotional complexity, what it means to transform personal experience into poetry, and whether the collection brought clarity, confrontation, or simply another way of living alongside difficult truths Contact Jennifer: Purchase The Tinder Sonnets: bookhugpress.ca          Instagram: @jenlg52    Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Prentice Powell – True Love Instagram: @prenticepowell1906          Website: prenticepowell.com Asia Samson – Enough Instagram: @theasiaproject         Website: theasiaproject.com  Alysia Harris – Death Poem Instagram: @poppyinthewheat          Website: alysiaharris.com Kyla Janee Lacey – I Pulled Out A Knife On Him Instagram: @kylajlacey         Website: thatswritekyla.com  Emi Mahmoud – Window Games Instagram: @emibatuta         Website: emi-mahmoud.com  Support the show

    Volume Seven: Chapter Seven - Our Conversation with Jennifer LoveGrove

  6. May 25

    Volume Seven: Chapter Six - Our Conversation With Steven Seidenberg

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Six of The Program, we welcomed Boston-based Photographer, Poet, Writer, Philosopher, and Visual Artist, Steven Seidenberg.  We discuss Steven’s newest poetry collection, Coda, his ongoing photographic work, including his exhibition at the John and Geraldine Lilley Museum of Art and the forthcoming photographic project Kanazawa Vacancy. In our conversation, Steven reflects on what it means to see his work displayed publicly and discusses his fascination with photographing empty landscapes, abandoned structures, and unstable environments—images that ask viewers not simply to look, but to reconsider what they’ve been seeing all along.  We discuss Steven’s early creative and intellectual history. He talks about his youthful attraction to poetry and philosophy, describing a compulsive literary obsession that shaped his identity and ultimately led him to leave high school before finding his academic footing at Simon’s Rock and later Bard College. We discuss the influence of reading on writing, the role philosophical literature played in his development, and how his interest in photography emerged alongside his early writing life, including memories of developing black-and-white photographs in his uncle’s darkroom.  Our conversation also explores family influences, Steven’s path through philosophy and academia, and his eventual transition away from teaching and copy editing toward a full-time creative life. Along the way, we unpack his remarkably patient artistic process, with projects often taking a decade or more to complete.  This was a thoughtful and reflective conversation about observation, artistic patience, intellectual curiosity, and the lifelong pursuit of meaning through multiple creative forms.  Contact Steven: Website: stevenseidenberg.com          Instagram: @steven.seidenberg    Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Brittany Barker – The Classroom Before the Revolution Instagram: @iambrittanybarker  Joshua Bennett – 16 Bars For Kendrick Lamar Instagram: @sirjoshuabennett          Website: drjoshuabennett.com Gina Loring – Freedom To Learn Instagram: @ginastarlight          Website: ginaloring.com  Steven Willis – Instead Of A Suicide Note, I Wrote This Instagram: @stevenwillispoetry          Website: stevenwillispoetry.com Alexis Green – He Used To Send Me Flowers Instagram: @poetalexisgreen          Website: poetalexsisgreen.com Support the show

    Volume Seven: Chapter Six - Our Conversation With Steven Seidenberg

  7. May 11

    Volume Seven: Chapter Five - Our Conversation with Brenda Cardanes

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Five, Brenda Cárdenas joins the Program for a wide-ranging conversation about creativity, language, culture, visual art, and the experiences that shaped her voice as a writer and poet. A Milwaukee, Wisconsin born and based educator, essayist, and author, Brenda earned her undergraduate degree from the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee, her teaching certification from the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh, and her MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Michigan. She is the author of the award-winning poetry collection Trace, which received the 2024 Society of Midland Authors Poetry Award and was the Silver Award winner of the 2023 Foreword INDIES Poetry Awards. She is also the author of three chapbooks, served as Milwaukee Poet Laureate from 2010–2012, and in 2025 was named Wisconsin Poet Laureate.  Throughout the conversation, Brenda reflects on growing up surrounded by creativity in many forms—from family members who painted, crafted furniture, made saddles, and told stories—to discovering poetry as the medium that allowed her to fully explore culture, memory, and identity. We discuss her early love of visual art, arts and crafts with her aunt, and the impact storytelling had on her imagination as a child. Brenda also talks about beginning to write stories around the age of eight, being encouraged by teachers early on, and eventually discovering poetry in high school through an American Authors course.  Our conversation explores the importance of representation in literature and how discovering Latin poetry and bilingual writing during undergrad changed her understanding of what poetry could do. Brenda speaks candidly about how encountering poets who reflected her own culture and experiences gave her permission to more openly write about identity, language, and heritage.  The conversation also touches on what it is like sharing life with fellow poet and former Milwaukee Poet Laureate Roberto Harrison, the ways visual art continues to influence her writing process, and what it meant to receive the call informing her that she had been selected as Wisconsin’s Poet Laureate in 2025. Contact Brenda: Website: brendacardenas.net          Instagram: @brenda.cardenas.754      Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Ephraim Nehemiah – Inheritance of a Broken Home Instagram: @ephariamnehemiah  Khalil Saadiq – Somebody's Watching Me Instagram: @khalil_saadiq  Alexandria Bennett – Color Blind Instagram: @caffeinatedliving  Denice Frohman – Accents Instagram: @denicefrohman          Website: denicefrohman.com  Lionheart – Pretty Hurts Instagram: @lionheartfelt          Website: lionheartfeltonline.com  Support the show

    Volume Seven: Chapter Five - Our Conversation with Brenda Cardanes

  8. May 3

    Volume Seven: Chapter Four - Our Conversation with Leah V

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Three of the program, we welcome Bronx-born, New York City-based Writer, Performance Poet, Curator, and star of the one-woman show "The Long Way Home", Leah V.  In our conversation, we trace her creative history—from writing poetry at seven, to studying musical theater, to finding her footing in New York’s spoken word scene.  We touch on her recent marriage and what it’s like balancing something deeply personal with a public life rooted in performance. We revisit "Virtual Voices", the virtual open mic space that introduced me to her work back in 2020, and her "partner in Creative crime" and co-host JRose. We spend time on a pivotal chapter—losing her father, the silence that followed, and what brought her back to writing during COVID. That return to the page becomes a turning point, not just creatively, but personally.  At the center of the conversation is her one-woman show, The Long Way Home: A Spoken Word Journey—a piece built around her late father’s poems and journal entries. We talk about what it means to carry someone’s voice forward, what she discovered about him in the process, and how grief evolves when you’re forced to sit with it, shape it, and share it.  We also get into the New York poetry community, the importance of creative spaces, her experience performing at the Apollo Theater, and how she thinks about the stage—as a place of discovery or revelation. Contact Leah V: Website: leahvspeaks.com          Instagram: @leahvspeaks      Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Just Ace – What If I Was Him Instagram: @iam_justace  Arantza Garcia – Recipe Book Instagram: @arantza.cgf  Kennie Sings – Like A Lady Instagram: @kennie_sings  Leah V – 3am Leah V - Yours Instagram: @leahvspeaks          Website: leahvspeaks.com Support the show

    Volume Seven: Chapter Four - Our Conversation with Leah V
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About

The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.   It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.  

Information

  • Creator
    Hosted by: Mike Payne
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2026
  • Episodes
    136
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Ethically Immoral Podcast
  • Show Website
    The Ethically Immoral Podcast