The Ethically Immoral Podcast

Hosted by: Mike Payne
  • 5.0 (8)
  • PERFORMING ARTS
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The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.   It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.  

  1. Volume Seven: Chapter Four - Our Conversation with Leah V

    4D AGO

    Volume Seven: Chapter Four - Our Conversation with Leah V

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Three of the program, we welcome Bronx-born, New York City-based Writer, Performance Poet, Curator, and star of the one-woman show "The Long Way Home", Leah V.  In our conversation, we trace her creative history—from writing poetry at seven, to studying musical theater, to finding her footing in New York’s spoken word scene.  We touch on her recent marriage and what it’s like balancing something deeply personal with a public life rooted in performance. We revisit "Virtual Voices", the virtual open mic space that introduced me to her work back in 2020, and her "partner in Creative crime" and co-host JRose. We spend time on a pivotal chapter—losing her father, the silence that followed, and what brought her back to writing during COVID. That return to the page becomes a turning point, not just creatively, but personally.  At the center of the conversation is her one-woman show, The Long Way Home: A Spoken Word Journey—a piece built around her late father’s poems and journal entries. We talk about what it means to carry someone’s voice forward, what she discovered about him in the process, and how grief evolves when you’re forced to sit with it, shape it, and share it.  We also get into the New York poetry community, the importance of creative spaces, her experience performing at the Apollo Theater, and how she thinks about the stage—as a place of discovery or revelation. Contact Leah V: Website: leahvspeaks.com          Instagram: @leahvspeaks      Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Just Ace – What If I Was Him Instagram: @iam_justace  Arantza Garcia – Recipe Book Instagram: @arantza.cgf  Kennie Sings – Like A Lady Instagram: @kennie_sings  Leah V – 3am Leah V - Yours Instagram: @leahvspeaks          Website: leahvspeaks.com Support the show

    1h 50m
  2. Volume Seven: Chapter Three - Our Conversation with Irina Moga

    APR 26

    Volume Seven: Chapter Three - Our Conversation with Irina Moga

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Three of the program, we welcomed Writer, Author, and Poet Irina Moga.  Her work has been nominated for the SFPA Rhysling Award and Best of the Net, and her collection Variations Without Palace was the 2022 winner of the Dina Sahyouni International Literary Prize. She’s the author of six collections, including her latest, Quantum, and is an active member of several literary organizations across Canada.  In our conversation, Irina discusses her early creative beginnings—starting with a poetry group in high school that, in her words, “mercilessly” tore apart each other’s work. What could have discouraged a young writer instead became foundational, shaping her approach to revision, experimentation, and resilience. We talk about what it means to have your work challenged early, and how that kind of environment can either push you out—or pull you deeper in.  We also spend time on one of the more fascinating parts of her journey: the transition from writing in Romanian to writing in English after immigrating to Canada. Rather than simply carrying over her voice, Irina made the intentional decision to rebuild it. We get into what that process looked like in real time—the frustrations, the disconnects, and what it took to stay committed to that evolution instead of retreating to what was familiar.  Throughout the conversation, Irina shares how writing lives for her today—not just as a craft, but as a space. A space of silence, concentration, and layering, where language, culture, and personal experience intersect. We talk about poetry as both deconstruction and reconstruction—how it allows us to break reality apart and reassemble it into something that feels more true, more honest, and sometimes more bearable.   Contact Irina: Website: irinamoga.com          Instagram: @pictopoems        Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Taalam Acey – Affirmation for Black Men Instagram: @taalamacey          Website: taalamacey.com  Brandon Alexander Williams – Black Woman Studies Instagram: @brandonalexanderwilliams  Anita D. – Colors Instagram: @anitadpoetry  Alyesha Wise – Cannibal Instagram: @alyeshawise          Website: alyeshawise.com Ciara Chantelle – Empty Cups Instagram: @ciarachantelle  Support the show

    1h 49m
  3. Volume Seven: Chapter Two - Our Conversation with Stephanie Bolster

    MAR 31

    Volume Seven: Chapter Two - Our Conversation with Stephanie Bolster

    In Volume Seven: Chapter Two of the podcast, we welcomed Vancouver-born, Quebec-based  Educator, Writer, Poet, and Author of the poetry collection Long Exposure, Stephanie Bolster.   Stephanie is Professor of Creative Writing at Concordia University, earned her BFA and MFA from the University of British Columbia, and is the author of five poetry collections.  In our conversation we discuss her creative beginnings—starting with early storytelling, a childhood desire to become an author, and the writers who helped define her path. She speaks on discovering poetry through Emily Dickinson, and later finding something deeper and more urgent in the work of Sylvia Plath—an influence that helped shift poetry from something she enjoyed to something she needed.  We also spend time unpacking identity—what it meant to call herself a poet early on, before expectations and career entered the picture, and how that relationship to the word “poet” has evolved over time. That idea opens into a broader conversation about imagination, the role poetry plays in making sense of the world, and whether those two instincts—creation and understanding—work together or pull in different directions. We discuss Long Exposure, a project more than a decade in the making, and what it means to finally bring that work into the world. Stephanie reflects on her relationship with the collection, the time it took to come together, and how living with a manuscript for that long shapes both the work and the writer behind it.   We close on process and balance: her writing routine, the importance of physical space and environment, and the ongoing challenge of making room for writing within the realities of teaching, family, and life. It’s a transparent look at the tension between knowing writing is essential and still having to negotiate time for it.  Contact Stephanie: Website: stephaniebolster.com          Instagram: @stephaniebolster0110       Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Shanelle Gabriel – Vanity Instagram: @shanellegabriel         Website: shanellegabriel.com  Matt Capone – Learned with Love Instagram: @matt__capone  Gigi Bella – Slut Instagram: @ggbellag        Website: gigibellapoetry.com  Anyrah Shaveh – We Must Not Die Young Instagram: @iamshaveh       Website: anyrahshaveh.com Moody Black – Eight Letters Instagram: @iammoodyblack        Website: iammoodyblack.com     Support the show

    2h 12m
  4. Volume Seven - Chapter One - Our Conversation with Ebony Stewart

    MAR 23

    Volume Seven - Chapter One - Our Conversation with Ebony Stewart

    In Volume Seven: Chapter One of the Program, we welcome Houston, Texas–born and based Educator, Playwright, Actress, Writer, Author, and Performance Poet Ebony Stewart. She is the 2017 Woman of the World Slam Champion, a three-time Austin Neo Soul Slam Champion, a B. Iden Payne Award recipient, and the David Mark Cohen New Play Award winner. She is also the author of four books, including her latest poetry collection Wash, which was recently named an Honors Award winner by the Texas Institute of Letters.   In our conversation, Ebony reflects on what that recognition for Wash actually means—not just as an acknowledgment of the work itself, but as an outside validation of her writing acumen. We talk about the evolution of her voice, the version of herself that shows up in this collection, and how periods of creative difficulty—graduate school where writing poetry became difficult—shaped the way she approaches the page now.   We also spend time sitting with something a lot of artists tend to move past too quickly: accomplishment. With a résumé as extensive as hers, Ebony discusses how often she truly pauses to take it in. Ebony opens up about the leap into becoming a full-time creative—what it looked like before that transition, the grind of balancing teaching with constant travel and performance, and the moment she decided to bet on herself. From there, we get into confidence: what it’s made of, how authenticity, self-awareness, and emotional honesty factor into it, and how she’s learned to carry heavy things like grief without letting them define every room she walks into.  Contact Ebony: Website: ebpoetry.com          Instagram: @gullyprincess        Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Nayo Jones – We Will Not Ask Instagram: @nayojones          Website: nayojones.com Jay Ward – Gentrification Instagram: @jayward2030 Alysia Harris – Controlled Burn Instagram: @poppyinthewheat         Website: alysiaharris.com  Ebony Stewart: How We Forget (After Loyce Gayo) Ebony Stewart: Single Support the show

    1h 35m
  5. Volume Six: Chapter Twenty - Our Conversation with Kathryn MacDonald

    MAR 16

    Volume Six: Chapter Twenty - Our Conversation with Kathryn MacDonald

    In Volume Six: Chapter Twenty of the Program, we welcome Ontario-based Educator, Writer, Painter, Photographer, Author, and Poet Kathryn MacDonald. Our conversation explores the many ways creativity can intersect—through poetry, visual art, travel, and teaching—and how each discipline shapes the way an artist observes and responds to the world.  Kathryn discusses her reputation as an ekphrastic writer, explaining how her poetry often emerges from an emotional dialogue with visual art and the details she encounters in everyday life. We talk about the role observation plays in her work, her writing process, and how reading and creative community continue to shape her development as a writer.  We also explore her experiences as a sailor and traveler, how those journeys have influenced her imagination, and the relationship between her poetry, painting, and photography.  The conversation concludes with a discussion of her forthcoming poetry collection, The Blue Gate, a lyrical exploration of love, grief, and the shifting emotional landscapes that follow loss.  Contact Kathryn: Website: kathrynmacdonald.com         Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Jae Nichelle – Brown Skin Girl Instagram: @croptopassassin          Website: jaenichelle.com  Emi Mahmoud – Window Games Instagram: @emibattuta          Website: emi-mahmoud.com  Crystal Valentine – I am Black before Woman in February Instagram: @crystalvalentine94          Website: iamcrystalvalentine.com Natasha Ria: Shine Website: natasharia.com        Instagram: @natasharia Javon Johnson: Building Instagram: @javonism Support the show

    1h 54m
  6. Volume Six: Chapter Nineteen - Our Conversation with Maria Giesbrecht

    MAR 8

    Volume Six: Chapter Nineteen - Our Conversation with Maria Giesbrecht

    In Volume Six: Chapter Nineteen of the Program, we welcome Durango, Mexico-born, Toronto-based Poet, Author, Curator, and Writer Maria Giesbrecht. She is a graduate of the post-graduate Creative Writing program at Humber College and the winner of the Jack McCarthy Book Prize and the Lesley Strutt Poetry Prize. Her work has also been recognized as a finalist for the Narrative Poetry Prize, a Best of Net nominee, and the runner-up for the Eden Mills Poetry Contest.  She is the author of the poetry collection Peeling Oranges, and her forthcoming collection A Little Feral is scheduled for release May 8 and is currently available for pre-order.  In our conversation, Maria and I talk about how her love of language began early—reading a Nancy Drew book nightly as a kid—and how poetry first entered her life in eighth grade through a science teacher who introduced her to spoken word and rap. We explore how writing became both refuge and release during difficult years growing up, and how persona poems help her navigate creative blocks. Maria also reflects on her religious upbringing and the complicated relationship she has had with faith, doubt, obedience, and questioning—and how writing has helped her process that evolving spiritual conversation.  We discuss the early-morning creative state she relies on for drafting poems, and the turning point when she left a career in corporate accounting to pursue writing full-time.  Finally, we talk about her writing community Gather, the role it plays in supporting other writers, and the ideas behind both of her poetry collections. Contact Maria: Instagram: @theguelphpoet        Website: mariagiesbrecht.com Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Marie Foolchand – I am the People, the Mob Instagram: @laframbuessa Dua Saleh – Fractions Instagram: @doitlikedua          Website: duasaleh.com Gabriel Ramiez – On Realizing Im Black Instagram: @poetramirez          Website: ramirezpoet.com  Andrea Gibson: Nutritionist Website: andreagibson.org        Instagram: @andreagibson Dani Cook: Recess Instagram: @thedanicook        Website: thisisdani.com Support the show

    1h 37m
  7. Volume Six: Chapter Eighteen - Our Conversation with David Martin

    FEB 23

    Volume Six: Chapter Eighteen - Our Conversation with David Martin

    In Volume Six: Chapter Eighteen we welcome Educator, Poet, Writer and Author David Martin. He earned his BA in English from the University of Calgary and his MA in English from the University of Alberta. His work has been widely recognized across Canada’s literary landscape — including winning the CBC Poetry Prize, receiving the Silver Award for Poetry from the Alberta Magazine Awards, and being shortlisted for the W.O. Mitchell Book Prize, the Banff Mountain Book Competition, and FreeFall Magazine’s poetry contest.  He is the author of two chapbooks and four full-length poetry collections, including his recently released book Night Stead.  In addition to his poetry, he is the frontman and primary songwriter for the multi-genre band The Fragments, whose eight-album catalog spans indie-pop, alternative, jazz-inspired textures, and most recently, country.  In our conversation, we explore the intersection of music and poetry — whether songwriting and verse come from the same creative space, and how genre shifts function in his artistic evolution.  We trace his creative history back to a pivotal, life-changing poetry reading by multidisciplinary artist Kirk Miles — a moment that reframed how he understood poetry and ultimately led to his involvement with Calgary’s long-running Single Onion Poetry Series, where he now serves as an organizer.  We also talk about his obsession with sound, his process of recording and listening back to drafts, and how grief — particularly the loss of his brother — reshaped both his writing practice and the emotional architecture of his work.  Finally, we dive into Night Stead — a formally inventive and deeply personal collection that challenges conventional reading structures while exploring vulnerability, memory, and interior life.  This is a conversation about discipline and experimentation, silence and return, structure and sound — and what it means to build a creative life across multiple mediums.  Contact David: Instagram: @david_jamesmartin        Website: davidjamesmartyin.ca  Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Alyssa Michelle – The Mis-Education of the Introvert Instagram: @poetress_michelle         TikTok: @poetress_michelle Khalil Saadiq – Somebody's Watching Me Instagram: @khalil_saadiq Shawn William – Tired Instagram: @iamshawnwilliam Kelsey Bigelow: A Grandfathers Hands Instagram: @kelkaypoetry          Website: kelkaypoetry.com Anna Maria Morris: A Love Poem for Myself Instagram: @annamariamorris        Website: annamariamorris.com Support the show

    1h 47m
  8. Volume Six: Chapter Seventeen - Our Conversation with Kestral Gaian

    FEB 2

    Volume Six: Chapter Seventeen - Our Conversation with Kestral Gaian

    Our guest this week is a Scotland, United Kingdom–based writer, poet, playwright, and author. Kestral Gaian, who is the author of four books, including their most recent poetry collection, Tubelines: The Poetry of Motion, available now via their website and wherever books are sold.  In our conversation, we trace Kestral’s parallel paths through creativity and technology — including a lengthy career in software and tech — and how those two worlds increasingly collide. That collision leads us into a thoughtful discussion of artificial intelligence, creative labor, and authorship, sparked by Kestral’s project justsayno.ai. We talk candidly about over-reliance on AI, creative disruption, and the growing concern that AI may help people produce writing without necessarily helping them become writers.  From there, we move into Kestral’s creative history: starting to write at the age of five, transitioning from storytelling into poetry, and grappling early on with questions of identity and representation. Growing up under the shadow of the UK’s Section 28 — legislation that erased queer stories from schools and libraries — profoundly shaped what felt possible to write. We talk about silence, visibility, and the long-term effects of being told certain stories shouldn’t exist.  The conversation then turns to Tubelines, a poetry collection written over five years and inspired by fifty encounters on the London Underground. We talk about people-watching, movement, routine, and the quiet humanity that reveals itself in shared spaces. Contact Kestral: Instagram: @kes.tr.al        Website: kestr.al  Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:  Toni Payne – Let the Headline Scream Instagram: @tonipaynequotes          Website: tonipayneonline.com  Meccamorphosis – Thrift Shop Instagram: @meccamorphosis          Website: meccamorphosis.com Asia Samson – As I Am Instagram: @theasiaproject       Website: theasiaproject.com Christopher Diaz: Again Instagram: @lightbulbchris          Website: christopherdiazcreates.com  Matthew Cuban: Shotgun Instagram: @matthewcuban         Website: matthewcuban.com   Support the show

    1h 55m
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About

The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.   It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.  

Information

  • Creator
    Hosted by: Mike Payne
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2026
  • Episodes
    129
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Ethically Immoral Podcast
  • Show Website
    The Ethically Immoral Podcast