The Exit Interview | On Air

Grace Media Digital
  • 5.0 (5)
  • BUSINESS
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Work is changing fast — and honestly, so are we. AI is changing the landscape. Titles don’t mean what they used to. Value alignment is the new currency. And somewhere between burnout, ambition, and purpose, people are asking: What’s actually worth it? The old playbook for “success” doesn’t hit the same. The Exit Interview | On Air is here to unpack all of it. We're the ones who will tell the truth and asks the uncomfortable questions. Hosted by Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron, the show dives into the real stories behind bold career moves, identity shifts, innovation and reinvention in a world that refuses to sit still. Each week, we invite you into the conversation with people who’ve walked away, started over, or leveled up on their own terms: Trailblazers taking big swings and rewriting the rules. Reinventionists navigating non-linear careers and second acts. Culture Icons—actors, executives, creators, and disruptors leading the way. Insight Guides from business, tech, media, and finance who drop the tools and truths you actually need to survive this new world of work. This isn’t another corporate pep talk or LinkedIn highlight reel. It’s the group chat you wish you had — where ambition meets honesty, humor meets heart, and everyone’s just trying to make work...work again. We talk about the risks taken, negotiations and navigations, purpose and motivations — the stuff behind the résumés. Because let’s be real: success isn’t one-size-fits-all anymore. For some, it’s peace. For others, ownership. For most of us, it’s alignment. The Exit Interview fuses finance and entertainment, delivering storytelling with authentic human energy. The result? Smart, relatable conversations that sound less like interviews and more like real life. So pull up a seat. We’re your new work besties — here to laugh, unpack, and navigate this wild new era of work with you. Radically honest. Relatable. Real. Because not all exits are created equal.

  1. 5H AGO

    The New CEO Playbook | Media Training, Succession Planning & Why Storytelling Wins Every Time

    Moira Conlon proves that controlling your message in the age of disinformation, fake news, and social media isn't just about managing crises — it's about showing up authentically, knowing when to pivot your advice, and understanding that communications is no longer a nice-to-have function but a strategic advantage that creates value and mitigates risk. Hosts Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron sit down with the CEO and founder of public relations firm Financial Profiles, a communications expert who's spent decades mastering the art of investor relations, crisis management, and corporate storytelling across some of the most dynamic companies in the world. From starting her career in investment banking at Merrill Lynch working on bank IPOs and mortgage origination to moving to Los Angeles and discovering investor relations — a field she'd never heard of but immediately loved — to building her own firm from scratch with nothing but a pitch deck and a prayer, Moira unpacks her journey of radical reinvention and what it takes to navigate the most critical moments in a company's life. Moira reveals why the communications landscape has become exponentially more complicated since the early days when you could control your message with a press release and a few media outlets, how social media and video have made it nearly impossible to prevent your words from being chopped up and weaponized, and why every company today is fighting for mindshare in a world where everyone thinks they can be a spokesperson. She shares raw truths about why activist investing changed the game for investor relations and forced companies to look at themselves through the lens of an activist investor or risk getting blindsided, how boards are now hiring communications professionals because too many have been caught unaware during crisis situations, and why the CEO is essentially the chief communications officer — the embodiment of the brand who must be trained and capable of communicating with employees, customers, Wall Street, and the media. But the real game-changer? Understanding that starting a firm is harder than you think, that your first clients come from relationships (not cold pitches), and that showing up smart — doing the work upfront to diagnose the pain and deliver insights instead of talking about yourself — is what wins business. Moira breaks down the brutal reality of launching a firm, how to navigate the toughest questions, how they built the business brick by brick by turning every client into their best case study, and why humor and authenticity became their secret weapons. She discusses why not every client is a good client, how AI will take over grunt work but can never replace the arsenal of experience that comes from years of practicing the craft, why younger professionals are missing out on critical learning by not being in the office to observe senior leaders prep for media appearances, and how her definition of success has shifted from building a bigger firm to building a better firm with great people who are authentic to who they are. Whether you're navigating a CEO succession plan, managing a crisis in the age of social media, trying to understand the invisible game of corporate communications, or building your own firm from the ground up, this episode offers battle-tested wisdom on storytelling, authenticity, and why the only thing you can count on is change. Hosts: Shana Ayabe x Kisha Imani Cameron Guest: Moira Conlon | CEO & Founder, Financial Profiles | Communications, Investor Relations & Crisis Management Expert Produced by: Grace Media Digital The Exit Interview | On-Air — Real conversations. Mastering communications in the age of disinformation. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:11 From Investment Banking to Investor Relations: Moira's Journey 00:06:27 The Titanic Moment: When Bad Acquisitions Force Change 00:36:21 Starting Financial Profiles: The Brutal Reality of Building from Scratch 00:08:28 The Evolution of Crisis Management: From Controlled to Chaotic 00:12:29 CEO Succession Planning: The Communication Blueprint 00:12:44 The New CEO Playbook: Change, Pressure, and Activist Investors 00:19:32 Becoming the Next CEO: Start Doing the Job Before You Have It 00:25:08 Media Training and Storytelling: Why Every CEO Must Master the Message 00:31:33 Authenticity Over Controversy: Finding Your Communication Style 00:46:00 AI and the Future of Communications: What Can't Be Replaced 00:56:57 Redefining Success: From Bigger to Better

    58 min

  2. 2D AGO

    The Special Ops Mindset | Why Veterans Make Great Entrepreneurs & How to Unlock Your Calling

    Nick Vandre proves that the skills forged in over 20 years of Army Special Operations — grit, adaptability, radical problem-solving — are the same skills that build successful businesses, if you're willing to do the deep work and face who you really are. Hosts Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron sit down with the co-founder of Bravory Bakehouse and Director of National Security & Ecosystem Ventures for 21cv, a veteran who completed more than 15 combat tours and missions most of us will never know about. From growing up on a farm in the Midwest watching GI Joe at eight years old to volunteering for Special Operations because he wanted to be part of a team that solved problems differently, to navigating the brutal reality of writing your will before every high-risk mission and updating how you want to be buried, Nick unpacks his journey of radical transformation — how he learned to compartmentalize life and death, why the military taught him to plan for every contingency and protect time, and how exiting service forced him to remove every mask he'd been wearing and face the truth of who he really was beneath the uniform. Nick reveals why Special Operations attracts a specific type of person — the ones who think outside the box and are willing to sacrifice everything for something bigger than themselves — and how that calling comes at a cost, but is also an identity that can’t be denied. He shares raw truths about the trauma center that changed his life, why painting a mask and writing a letter to his younger self unlocked healing that talk therapy never could. But the real game-changer? Nick's shows us that entrepreneurship is nothing more than being value-added to someone's problem — and how veterans are untapped top talent for companies and given access to more resources than any other demographic to be successful in business. He breaks down why your business is a reflection of your identity (so if you don't know who you are, your business will fail), how he and his wife built Bravory Bakehouse to honor the invisible homefront heroes who serve without wearing a uniform, why they spell bravery with an "O" to reclaim the word and applaud everyday quiet strength, and how partnering with Hanks for Our Troops allows them to maximize impact back to the veteran community with every purchase. Nick discusses why he gamifies life and treats every year as leveling up, how he removed the lid on his potential by changing his frequency and beliefs, and how aligning to a clear mission statement attracts the right people and opportunities into your life. Whether you're a veteran navigating transition, an entrepreneur trying to find your purpose, or anyone struggling to remove the masks and live authentically, this episode offers battle-tested wisdom on identity, mission, bravery, and why the only thing stopping you from being successful in business is yourself. Hosts: Shana Ayabe x Kisha Imani Cameron Guest: Nick Vandre | Army Special Operations Veteran | Founder, Bravory Bakehouse | Director, 21cv Web: https://bravorybakehouse.com/collections/cookies (Shop the Mission) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholas-vandre/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/bravorybakehouse/ Produced by: Grace Media Digital The Exit Interview | On-Air — Real conversations. Transforming service into purpose through entrepreneurship. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:28 From Farm Kid to Special Operations: The Origin Story 00:04:11 Asymmetric Problem Solving: How Special Ops Thinks Differently 00:08:22 The Selection Process and What You Give Up 00:10:36 Marriage, Family, and the Weight of Deployment 00:17:27 Facing Death: Writing Your Will Before Every Mission 00:19:49 The Transition Decision: When Beliefs Outgrow Bureaucracy 00:28:09 The Trauma Center: Healing Through Art and Masks 00:26:58 Identity Crisis: Removing the Masks and Finding Your True Self 01:01:38 The Birth of Bravory Bakehouse: Honoring the Homefront Heroes 01:03:38 From Kind Cookie to Cease and Desist: The Rebrand Story 01:09:06 Hanks for Our Troops: Maximum Impact Through Coffee 00:53:30 Mission Statements and Manifesting Your Tribe 00:49:59 Advice for Transitioning Veterans: Ask for Help 00:55:57 The Frequency of Authenticity: Attracting Your Life 00:58:16 Lifestyle Portfolios: Accounting for What Matters 01:16:00 Redefining Bravery: Quiet Strength Behind Closed Doors 01:13:36 Why Companies Should Hire Veterans

    1h 20m

  3. FEB 4

    The Billion Dollar Partnership | Why Debate, Humility & Shared Vision Lead to Success

    John Chaffetz proves that building a billion-dollar asset management firm isn't about chasing size — it's about breaking the echo chamber and never losing sight of the fact that investments are products designed for real people. Hosts Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron sit down with the co-founder and principal of Timberlane Partners, a Seattle-based real-estate investment, development and asset management firm managing approximately $1.5 billion in assets (As of 2025, the time of this recording). John unpacks his journey of building his firm from two guys in a truck to a 30-person semi-institutional powerhouse. He reveals why the personal relationship with his co-founder Dave Enslow was the foundation of everything, how their complementary skill sets and ability to debate is rooted in their firm culture, and how their regional niche, nimbleness and client service became their competitive advantage. John breaks down the three phases of growth every business goes through. He shares why the current market environment presents an opportunity to multifamily properties and development, why uncertainty around tariffs, inflation, and AI makes it harder than ever to predict what's coming next — but also creates opportunity for nimble middle-sized firms. But the real game-changer? Understanding that leadership evolves as your company grows, and the cultural work you do behind the scenes is what separates good firms from great ones. He discusses why he wants people who push back and express strong opinions (even if he disagrees), and how humility combined with conviction is the rarest and most valuable trait in an investment professional. Whether you're building a firm, navigating leadership transitions, or trying to understand what separates a good investor from a great one, this episode offers valuable market insights and battle-tested wisdom on partnerships, culture, and why fully committing is the only way to play. Hosts: Shana Ayabe x Kisha Imani Cameron Guest: John Chaffetz | Co-Founder & Principal, Timberlane Partners | Real Estate Asset Management & Investment Professional Produced by: Grace Media Digital The Exit Interview | On-Air — Real conversations. Building billion-dollar firms with purpose and partnership. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:02 From Wall Street to Two Guys in a Truck: The Origin Story 00:07:29 The Power of Partnership: Why Two Founders Work 00:08:49 The Three Phases of Growth: From Proof of Concept to Billion-Dollar Firm 00:11:05 The Sweet Spot: Why Middle-Sized Matters in Asset Management 00:12:33 Market Opportunity: The Multifamily Reset and Regional Focus 00:16:15 AI, Uncertainty, and the New Normal of Constant Change 00:21:20 Leadership Evolution: From Friendly Boss to Strategic Facilitator 00:25:53 Hiring for Point of View: The Investment Team Philosophy 00:30:12 Lessons from Failure: The Salt Lake City Mistake 00:32:02 Unpopular Opinion: The Credit Strategy Bubble 00:33:14 Defining Success: Building Products and Careers Legal Disclosure: The content provided in this episode of The Exit Interview is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be construed as investment, legal, or tax advice. The views and opinions expressed by John Chaffetz and the hosts are their own as of the date of recording (November 19, 2025) and are subject to change without notice based on market and other conditions. No Offer of Securities: This content does not constitute an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy any interest in any investment fund or vehicle managed by Timberlane Partners or its affiliates. Any such offer or solicitation will be made only by means of official offering documents, which will be furnished only to qualified investors. Performance & Forward-Looking Statements: References to "alpha," "outperformance," or "doubling in size" are historical or aspirational in nature. Past performance is not indicative of future results. There is no guarantee that any investment strategy discussed will achieve its objectives or avoid losses. Risk Warning: Real estate and alternative investments involve significant risks, including illiquidity, valuation uncertainties, and the potential for loss of principal. The discussion of "reckonings" in other asset classes (e.g., private credit) reflects the speaker's opinion and should not be relied upon as a predictor of market movements. Affiliation: John Chaffetz is a principal of Timberlane Partners, a private real estate investment and asset management firm. Its investment offerings are made only to qualified investors through official private placement materials. Note: Grace Media Digital and The Exit Interview | On Air are not registered investment advisers or broker-dealers and do not provide investment services.

    35 min

  4. FEB 2

    When to Leave vs. Stay | The Management Scam, Hidden Icebergs & Building Leverage

    Negotiating your worth isn't just about asking for more money — it's about understanding the invisible game being played, knowing when to walk away, and recognizing that it's never really about you. Hosts Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron dive deep into one of the most critical yet misunderstood moments in every professional's career: how to navigate promotions, salary bumps, and career advancement when your timeline doesn't match your boss's, when the company's priorities shift beneath your feet, and when you're stuck wondering if you should stay and fight or cut your losses and leave. From the brutal reality that your patience will always run hotter than your manager's to the strategic importance of getting competing offers (and being willing to actually take them), they unpack why so few people successfully negotiate their way up — and what you need to do differently starting today. Shana and Kisha reveal why management is the biggest scam of all time — a role that props you up as successful while you spend all your time making sure other people are doing good work instead of advancing yourself. They share raw truths about why good managers often get stuck because companies don't want to destabilize high-performing teams, how you can move up the ranks without managing people if you focus on revenue generation and efficiency gains, and why everyone should take a sales class regardless of their role. Plus, the shift in perspective that changes everything: stop thinking about what you want and start thinking about what your company needs, what your senior leaders need, and how you can deliver value that solves their problems — then translate that into dollars saved or dollars made. But the real game-changer? Understanding that you only see the tip of the iceberg. Shana and Kisha break down why brilliant ideas get rejected for reasons you'll never know — board succession planning, budget reallocations, pending acquisitions, or simply because your advocate is planning their own exit and doesn't want to set you up to fail. They discuss why it's not your company unless it's your company, how to recognize when your values and the company's values no longer align, and why the more senior you get, the more you need to negotiate everything around what benefits your tenure and long-term goals. They unpack the strategic decision of whether to chase equity and anchor yourself to a company you believe in or use your current role to rack up wins and metrics that will help you land equity somewhere else. Whether you're lobbying for a promotion, navigating a salary negotiation, or trying to decide if it's time to exit, this episode offers battle-tested strategies for understanding the invisible game, playing it strategically, and remembering that you have more power than you think — as long as you're willing to walk. Hosts: Shana Ayabe x Kisha Imani Cameron Produced by: Grace Media Digital The Exit Interview | On-Air — Real conversations. Mastering the invisible game of promotions and salary negotiation. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:00:20 The Path Forward: When to Stay vs When to Go 00:01:02 The Manager Trap: Why Managing People Is the Biggest Scam 00:01:38 Adding Value Without Managing: The Revenue Connection 00:01:54 Everyone Should Take a Sales Class 00:02:07 It's Who You Know: The Power of Networking and Advocacy 00:02:28 When You Don't Get the Promotion: Stay or Leave? 00:03:36 The Sales Mindset Shift: It's Not About You 00:07:05 Understanding What You Can't See: The Iceberg Effect 00:06:12 It's Not Your Company Unless It's Your Company 00:08:55 The Equity Decision: Anchor or Accelerator? 00:09:35 Final Thoughts: Internal Work, Self-Awareness, and Your Power 00:11:30 The Competing Offer Strategy: Be Willing to Walk 00:12:04 Closing

    12 min
  5. The AI Reinvention Revolution | Who is at Risk & How to Become Irreplaceable

    JAN 28

    The AI Reinvention Revolution | Who is at Risk & How to Become Irreplaceable

    Nikki Barua proves that surviving the AI reckoning isn't about resisting change — it's about embracing impermanence, shedding your ego, and becoming an explorer instead of an expert. Hosts Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron sit down with the award-winning entrepreneur, best-selling author, AI leadership pioneer and reinvention expert who's been working in artificial intelligence since 1997 — long before ChatGPT made it accessible to the masses. As co-founder of Flipwork, Nikki takes a radically human approach to AI, focusing on amplifying what makes us uniquely human rather than replacing us with machines. From the democratization of intelligence and the collapse of middle management to the rise of molecular pod structures and the golden age of entrepreneurship, Nikki unpacks why the future belongs to high-agency creators, not rule-following managers — and why the next decade will force every professional to reinvent themselves faster than ever before. The discussion unpacks why middle management is at the highest risk of elimination, how Gen X and elder Millennials are getting shafted yet again by seismic workforce shifts, and why 30 to 40 percent of corporate jobs will disappear in the next two years — only to be replaced by fundamentally different roles that require a completely new skill set. Nikki shares raw truths about why confidence comes from action (not results) and why the traditional pyramid organizational structure is a Titanic heading straight into an iceberg. Plus, why Navy SEAL-style cross-functional teams are the future of work, how personal branding and relationship management will be valuable skillsets, and why curiosity and childlike exploration are the ultimate survival tools in an age where expertise becomes obsolete overnight. But the real game-changer? Nikki's vision of a future where humans no longer need to work for survival — where universal basic income, abundance, and machine productivity free us to return to creativity, community, and purpose. She breaks down why this isn't dystopian but a return to the original human experience, how success will be redefined as achievement plus fulfillment (not titles and paychecks), and why the biggest spiritual intervention required right now is accepting that certainty, security, and comfort were always illusions. Whether you're navigating a layoff, leading a team through transformation, or trying to figure out where you fit in an AI-driven world, this episode offers battle-tested wisdom on reinvention, high agency, and why the future belongs to those who lean into being themselves and participating rather than bystanding. Hosts: Shana Ayabe x Kisha Imani Cameron Guest: Nikki Barua | Co-Founder, Flipwork | AI, Leadership, Reinvention Expert, Entrepreneur & Best-Selling Author LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkibarua/ Website: https://www.nikkibarua.com/ Produced by: Grace Media Digital The Exit Interview | On-Air — Real conversations. Embracing impermanence in the age of AI. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:22 Meet Nikki Barua: AI Pioneer Since 1997 00:02:34 AI as Human Amplifier: The Co-Evolution Partnership 00:04:15 The Fear Factor: Job Loss, Gen Z, and Ethical Concerns 00:05:37 Democratizing Intelligence: When Everyone Has Access 00:10:52 The Assimilation Trap: From Immigrant to Authentic Self 00:12:53 AI as Infrastructure: You Missed the Deadline Six Months Ago 00:15:47 The Explorer vs. Expert Mindset: Generational Approaches to AI 00:21:43 The Spiritual Side of Reinvention: Shedding Ego and Identity 00:25:50 Baby Steps to Overcome Fear: The Action Formula 00:28:18 Reinvention Stories: From India to America to Corporate to Entrepreneur 00:31:33 Identity as an Outfit: Embracing Impermanence 00:33:19 The Myth of the Straight Line: Why Boring Careers Fail 00:35:20 Confidence Through Action: Staying Confident in the Abyss 00:40:07 Middle Management Extinction: Who's at Risk and Why 00:43:25 The Jobs That Will Disappear: Administrative, Legal, Accounting 00:45:03 What Remains Irreplaceable: Wisdom, Trust, and Human Connection 00:41:42 The Creative Future: Returning to Our Original Human Purpose 00:50:20 The Golden Age of Entrepreneurship: Small Teams, Big Impact 00:56:46 Dismantling the Pyramid: Navy SEAL Pods Replace Hierarchy 01:01:33 The M&A Reset: Restructuring vs. Reinvention 01:03:14 Entrepreneur Survival: Working On vs. In Your Business 01:12:53 High Agency Personalities: The Future Belongs to Self-Directed People 01:14:34 The Entry Level Crisis: Where Gen Z Should Look Now 01:16:58 Redefining Success: Purpose Beyond Productivity 01:21:35 The Global AI Race: US vs. China and Humanitarian Perspectives 01:23:37 The 30-40% Job Elimination: What's Coming in the Next Two Years

    1h 25m

  6. JAN 23

    The Lawyer Who Sued Her Own Boss | Inside the Bikram Yoga Sexual Harassment Trial

    Micki Jafa-Bodden proves that standing up to a predator isn't career suicide — it's the ultimate act of moral courage when everyone else is too scared to speak. Hosts Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron sit down with the former in-house counsel and VP of Compliance for Bikram Yoga, a lawyer who uncovered a pattern of sexual harassment and assault so pervasive it reached into hotel rooms, training camps, and even her own workplace — then did the unthinkable: sued her own employer, took it to trial, and won a unanimous multi-million dollar jury verdict. From being headhunted in her late thirties to transform a mom-and-pop yoga operation into a world-class franchise across 38 countries, to discovering the founder's decades-long pattern of predatory behavior toward young trainees, to becoming a target herself when he beckoned her into his hotel bed during a deposition prep, Micki unpacks her journey of radical accountability — how she went from protecting the company to protecting the victims, why she refused to settle or go quietly into the night, and how taking on one of the most powerful figures in the yoga world cost her everything but gave her back her voice. Micki reveals how death threats became part of the defense's intimidation tactics, and why she was the only person to ever take Bikram Choudhury to trial and win — while others settled in silence. She shares raw truths about the "nut, slut, gold digger" defense strategy used against sexual harassment victims, how defendants cycle through eight or nine sets of attorneys just to run out the clock and demoralize you, and why avoiding the courtroom should be your first instinct unless you're dealing with someone who thinks they're above the law. Plus, why her colleagues and outside counsel believed her immediately when she reported the hotel room incident, and how the yoga community's cult-like devotion to their guru made accountability nearly impossible — until a jury of everyday people saw through the smoke and mirrors. Micki reflects on what she lost, what she reclaimed, the Netflix documentary that made it all famous and what justice actually looks like when the headlines fade. For anyone navigating a toxic workplace, weighing whether to speak up, or trying to understand the personal toll of standing up to power, this episode is a deeply honest look at courage, consequence, and what it means to exit with your integrity intact. Hosts: Shana Ayabe x Kisha Imani Cameron Guest: Micki Jafa-Bodden | Former VP of Compliance & In-House Counsel, Bikram Yoga | Attorney & Advocate IG: https://www.instagram.com/mickiyoga/?hl=en Produced by: Grace Media Digital The Exit Interview | On-Air — Real conversations. Standing up to power and predators. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:40 From London Law to Los Angeles Yoga: Mickey's Legal Journey 00:02:53 Building a World-Class Franchise: The Early Days at Bikram 00:05:30 Red Flags and Ethical Dilemmas: When the Guru Wouldn't Change 00:08:02 The Trojan Horse Lawsuit: Uncovering a Pattern of Abuse 00:13:50 The Bedroom Incident: When Sexual Harassment Hit Home 00:18:27 The God Complex: Death Threats and Witness Intimidation 00:19:40 The Decision to Sue: Duty Over Fear 00:21:09 Cult of Personality: The Pied Piper of Yoga 00:23:07 Taking on Power: Advice for Sexual Harassment Victims 00:16:42 The Marathon to Trial: Two and a Half Years of Legal Warfare 00:28:21 Victory and Vindication: The Unanimous Jury Verdict 00:30:59 Protecting Her Daughter: Navigating Motherhood During Litigation 00:33:30 The Cost of Justice: Career Suicide and Reinvention 00:27:48 Life After the Verdict: Enforcement, Bankruptcy, and the Fugitive 00:37:12 Not Slut Gold Digger: The Defense Playbook Exposed 00:37:37 Finding Her Voice: From High Profile to No Profile 00:25:28 Would She Do It Again: Reflections and Regrets

    39 min

  7. JAN 21

    Second Careers at 39 | Why Job Security Is Dead & How to Pivot with Purpose

    Starting over at 39 isn't failure — it's the new normal in a world where job security is dead and career pivots are survival strategy. Hosts Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron dive deep into one of the most critical yet terrifying moments in every professional's life: navigating a second career when the stakes are highest. From the brutal reality that the average person starts a new career at 39 — right when family responsibilities peak and corner offices feel within reach — to the seismic shifts in corporate America driven by mergers, AI disruption, mass layoffs, and government restructuring, they unpack why no one is untouchable anymore and how to position yourself when change is inevitable. Shana and Kisha reveal why job security is a myth, how Gen Z watched their parents burn out and said "no thanks" to corner offices, and why the creator economy has completely rewritten the rules of financial success. They share raw truths about the two categories of people facing layoffs — those with runway who can strategically pivot, and those living paycheck-to-paycheck who face impossible choices — and why both need radically different strategies. Plus, how to know when to anchor in versus when to start looking, why building your personal brand should start now (not when you need it), and how to prioritize projects that build skills for where you're going, not where you are. But the real game-changer? Shifting your mindset from "leaving on good terms" to owning what you actually want — even if it means taking a pay cut, making a parallel move, or pivoting into something that doesn't make sense to anyone but you. Shana and Kisha break down why everyone is replaceable in today's environment (yes, even the C-suite), how to stop being a LinkedIn lurker and start being an active participant, why you need to do a financial analysis tonight to know your real burn rate, and how dipping into savings to invest in yourself might be the smartest move you make. They discuss why acceptance is your first step, how to get all your fears out of your head and onto paper, and why taking one small action — calling someone at your dream company, updating your LinkedIn, writing about your expertise — is more powerful than staying paralyzed by fear. Whether you're on the chopping block, managing a department post-layoffs with 10x the workload, or simply wondering if it's time to exit, this episode offers battle-tested strategies for navigating career pivots with purpose, clarity, and zero shame. Hosts: Shana Ayabe x Kisha Imani Cameron Produced by: Grace Media Digital The Exit Interview | On-Air — Real conversations. Navigating second careers and career pivots with purpose. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:00:18 The Average Career Pivot: Why 39 is the New Starting Point 00:03:32 The Death of the Linear Career Path 00:04:09 The Succession Crisis: When Leaders Won't Leave 00:06:04 The Great Restructuring: Mergers, AI, and Mass Layoffs 00:07:08 Everybody is Replaceable: Shifting Your Security Mindset 00:09:32 The Creator Economy vs. Corporate Security 00:13:02 Gen Z's Rejection of Hustle Culture 00:16:45 Job Hugging: When Fear Keeps You Stuck 00:19:15 Two Categories of Workers: Runway vs. Paycheck to Paycheck 00:20:39 Start Planning Now: Building Skills for Your Next Life 00:22:01 The Burnout Paradox: Too Exhausted to Plan Your Exit 00:24:11 Knowing What You Want: The Hardest Question 00:24:52 The SWOT Analysis: Mapping Your Best Path Forward 00:26:32 Should You Anchor In or Start Looking? 00:32:22 Stop Being a LinkedIn Lurker 00:34:04 Leaving on Good Terms: Who Cares? 00:35:39 Move Fast or Miss Your Window 00:38:21 Action Steps: Journal, Budget, and Take One Step 00:43:03 Final Thoughts: You're Interviewing Again Whether You Like It or Not

    44 min

  8. JAN 16

    Salary Negotiation Secrets | Why Personal Branding & External Advocates Matter Most

    Negotiating a salary or promotion isn't just about showing up — it's about strategic positioning, self-promotion, and knowing exactly when to walk away. Hosts Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron dive deep into one of the most critical yet misunderstood moments in every professional's career: how to successfully negotiate your way up the ladder. From the fear and insecurity that keeps people silent about their worth to the tactical strategies that actually work when asking for that promotion, they unpack why so few people advocate for themselves effectively — and what you can do to change that starting today. Shana and Kisha reveal why building your personal brand and self-promotion should start now (not when you need it), how timing your biggest wins strategically in the second half of the year gives you leverage during performance reviews, and why people only remember what you've done in the last few months — not January. They share raw truths about the evolution of self-branding from when it was frowned upon to today's content-driven world where you can throw your hat in the ring without waiting for someone to tap you on the shoulder. Plus, how women can learn from men when it comes to applying for jobs, how external stakeholder relationships can be your biggest leverage point, and why doing your own personal SWOT analysis is the first step to understanding your value. But the real game-changer? Shifting your mindset from compare-and-despair to true self-reflection— then realizing everything else is learnable. Shana and Kisha break down how to cover your blind spots by surrounding yourself with experts, why getting just 5-10% better at something can give you a massive confidence boost, and how to use LinkedIn and content creation as tools for self-promotion in ways that weren't socially acceptable even a decade ago. They discuss what to do when you don't get the promotion you were expecting, how to ask for honest feedback and a clear path forward, and why lack of transparency is your signal that you've run out of room. Whether you're preparing for your next promotion conversation, building your personal brand, or trying to figure out if it's time to exit, this episode offers battle-tested strategies for advocating for yourself with confidence and clarity. Hosts: Shana Ayabe x Kisha Imani Cameron Produced by: Grace Media Digital The Exit Interview | On-Air — Real conversations. Mastering the promotion negotiation. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:00:27 Self-Branding and Marketing: Making Your Work Visible 00:01:35 The Evolution of Self-Promotion: From Taboo to Essential 00:02:28 Throwing Your Hat in the Ring: The New Path to Leadership 00:03:28 Overcoming Fear and Insecurity Around Self-Worth 00:04:41 The Personal SWOT Analysis: Understanding Your Value 00:05:30 Start with What You Hate: A Reverse Engineering Approach 00:06:29 Continuous Improvement: Building Confidence Through Growth 00:07:20 Timing Your Wins: Strategic Project Planning for Promotions 00:08:39 External Advocacy: Leveraging Relationships and Stakeholder Feedback 00:09:47 When You Don't Get the Promotion: Knowing When to Stay or Go

    10 min
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Ratings & Reviews

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5 Ratings

About

Work is changing fast — and honestly, so are we. AI is changing the landscape. Titles don’t mean what they used to. Value alignment is the new currency. And somewhere between burnout, ambition, and purpose, people are asking: What’s actually worth it? The old playbook for “success” doesn’t hit the same. The Exit Interview | On Air is here to unpack all of it. We're the ones who will tell the truth and asks the uncomfortable questions. Hosted by Shana Ayabe and Kisha Imani Cameron, the show dives into the real stories behind bold career moves, identity shifts, innovation and reinvention in a world that refuses to sit still. Each week, we invite you into the conversation with people who’ve walked away, started over, or leveled up on their own terms: Trailblazers taking big swings and rewriting the rules. Reinventionists navigating non-linear careers and second acts. Culture Icons—actors, executives, creators, and disruptors leading the way. Insight Guides from business, tech, media, and finance who drop the tools and truths you actually need to survive this new world of work. This isn’t another corporate pep talk or LinkedIn highlight reel. It’s the group chat you wish you had — where ambition meets honesty, humor meets heart, and everyone’s just trying to make work...work again. We talk about the risks taken, negotiations and navigations, purpose and motivations — the stuff behind the résumés. Because let’s be real: success isn’t one-size-fits-all anymore. For some, it’s peace. For others, ownership. For most of us, it’s alignment. The Exit Interview fuses finance and entertainment, delivering storytelling with authentic human energy. The result? Smart, relatable conversations that sound less like interviews and more like real life. So pull up a seat. We’re your new work besties — here to laugh, unpack, and navigate this wild new era of work with you. Radically honest. Relatable. Real. Because not all exits are created equal.

Information

  • Creator
    Grace Media Digital
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    25
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Grace Media Digital