The Experience Edge

Jochem van der Veer
  • 5.0 (2)
  • Marketing
  • Updated Weekly

Hosted by Jochem van der Veer, customer-obsessed founder of TheyDo, this weekly podcast dives into conversations with senior professionals, pioneers, and industry leaders at the forefront of CX. Guests openly share their experiences on customer journeys, voice of the customer, customer-centric transformation, journey management, and best practices for lasting impact.

  1. 5h ago

    How Autodesk Made Journey Management an Operating System

    Service design promised to connect the dots. So why are service designers inside the same company still not talking to each other? Khayyam "Kai" Lasi is Journey Management Program Lead at Autodesk, where he's spent years scaling journey management from a lone title on an org chart to a company-wide operating system. In this conversation, he and Jochem get into why service design siloes itself from within, what it actually means to move from journey mapping to journey architecture, why "ownership" is the wrong mental model for CX practitioners, and how AI can reduce the internal politics that keeps teams from doing their best work. ABOUT KAI Khayyam "Kai" Lasi is Journey Management Program Lead at Autodesk. His career path has been far from linear - he moved from actuarial science into customer experience after discovering a stronger passion for people and solving complex problems, going on to build deep expertise in customer support, CX leadership, and journey management across Toronto startups, Scotiabank, and Autodesk. Over the past three and a half years at Autodesk, he's been foundational in scaling a journey management practice that now spans multiple teams and has influenced how the organisation hires and structures CX work. He's best known for combining analytical rigour with a systems-level view of customer experience - and for being unafraid to call out where the service design field is failing itself. KEY TAKEAWAYS ➝ Service design siloes aren't just an org problem - they're a people problem that no tool or framework will fix. ➝ Journey management is the operating system that keeps service design from becoming the wild west. ➝ "Shepherd" beats "owner" - you can't shepherd a journey without building a flock of contributors. ➝ Insight grain size matters: product managers don't want "onboarding is bad," they want capability-level specifics. ➝ AI can create good baselines and remove language barriers between roles - but humans still have to come together. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 02:07 Why service designers inside the same company don't talk to each other 05:12 How organisational siloes corrupt the service design practice within them 06:39 Journey management as the operating system for service design 09:33 How Autodesk moved from a design-mature company to a journey management culture 13:06 Building a journey architecture: heat-mapping, lifecycle data, and shared understanding 19:49 From mapping stage to management stage - what comes next 22:00 The community of practice gap and why standards need to be agreed, not assumed 26:12 Lessons from agile: the danger of standardising flexibility out of a practice 27:55 "Search before you create" - a standard worth fighting for 34:48 How AI enables governance, reduces duplication, and removes language barriers between teams 40:58 Organisational memory and the decision map concept 49:29 Shepherding vs ownership - why vocabulary shapes culture 55:02 How to reconcile journey thinking with team structures in complex organisations 01:03:14 The one agent worth building next: internal context + accountability mapping 01:07:42 How to reach Kai and closing thoughts LINKEDIN PROFILES Khayyam Lasi - https://www.linkedin.com/in/khayyam-lasi/Jochem van der Veer - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/ THEYDO Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com Subscribe to The Experience Edge for weekly conversations on customer experience, journey management, and the future of enterprise CX. Share this episode with someone who's thinking about how their organisation connects customer insight to real decisions. #TheExperienceEdge #Lasi #JourneyArchitecture #ServiceDesign #OrganisationalMemory #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

    1h 11m

  2. Jul 1

    Will half of CX teams become redundant?

    Half of CX teams are still just running surveys. The other half stopped reporting and started operating. Bill Staikos spent two decades in customer experience leadership at companies like American Express, BNY Mellon, and JPMorgan, and now writes the newsletter AI Not KPI. In this conversation, he explains why CX is splitting into a "bottom 50%" still stuck in survey-and-dashboard mode and a "top 50%" rebuilding around AI, data architecture, and operating models - and argues the role's most important relationship is shifting from the CFO to the CIO.KEY TAKEAWAYS - Half of CX teams still only run surveys- the rest have moved to an operating model. - When CX and the Chief Product Officer have "no daylight" between them, transformation accelerates. - The closed-loop model needs two new loops: orchestration (AI acting in real time) and learning (feedback improving the system). - CX leaders need data literacy and curiosity about tools like semantic layers and MCP, not just survey skills. - Start with the biggest business pain point, not the biggest customer pain point — the experience issue usually surfaces there anyway. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 03:09 Why half of CX teams are stuck doing surveys 05:48 The CX–CPO relationship as the biggest marker of change 07:11 How insight teams are getting into product planning cycles 11:02 What the top 5% of CX leaders do differently 13:16 Should a survey-background CX leader be a red flag? 15:45 Business acumen vs. data vocabulary — CX needs both 17:32 Rethinking Bain's closed-loop model: adding orchestration and learning loops 22:01 Should these loops be intentionally governed or left emergent? 24:45 Hijacking existing rituals like PI planning to drive CX decisions 26:59 A real example: redesigning how teams are measured beyond output 29:52 From raw data to signal, context, intelligence, and impact 33:04 Is CX at a crossroads about its own purpose? 35:05 Why the most important CX relationship is now with the CIO, not the CFO 39:09 Where to start building an internal customer context layer 43:34 Why incentives and change leadership determine whether any of this works 45:30 Inside Bill's newsletter: turning frameworks into usable artifacts LINKEDIN Guest: Bill Staikos — https://www.linkedin.com/in/billstaikos/ Host: Jochem van der Veer — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/ THEYDO Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com#TheExperienceEdge #Staikos #AIinCX #DataArchitecture #ClosedLoopFeedback #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

    49 min

  3. Jun 24

    Ontology: Fix Your AI Quality by Fixing Your Data

    Your AI agents aren't failing because the models are bad. They're failing because your data was built for humans, not machines.  Jochem has spent years working on the structural problem underneath failing enterprise AI initiatives. In this episode, he breaks down why CX AI pilots stall after six to eight weeks, what an experience ontology actually is and how it differs from a taxonomy or tag list, and why the architectural decision of where your ontology lives - data layer versus AI layer - determines whether your AI investment compounds or drifts.  KEY TAKEAWAYS AI pilots fail because the data environment was designed for human interpretation, not machine reasoning. Tagging the same word across systems is co-location, not integration — AI can't bridge that gap reliably. An ontology defines not just what things are, but how they relate and what an agent can do with them. Location primitives (journey, phase, step) give disparate data a shared address so it can finally connect. The architectural choice of where the ontology lives — data layer vs. tool layer — determines whether it scales or drifts. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction — Why AI pilots hit a wall after six to eight weeks 01:45 The three lenses enterprises use to understand customers 03:10 Why co-location isn't integration and what breaks when humans leave the loop 04:47 The core problem: confident AI output with no traceable foundation 06:20 What an ontology actually is — and how it differs from a taxonomy 08:00 Location primitives: journey, phase, and step as shared address 09:30 Connecting VOC evidence and BI metrics to the same structural coordinate 10:30 Pattern primitives: spotting recurring opportunities across journeys 12:00 The KYC banking example — one named object, many product teams 13:30 The third job of an ontology: structural rules for what agents can do 15:00 Why data binding is where most CX data efforts actually break down 16:30 How a working ontology creates a self-reinforcing context layer 17:54 The critical architectural decision: data layer vs. AI layer 19:30 Why CIOs and CX leaders need to make this call together 21:00 Bringing it back: the real fix isn't a better model, it's a better foundation 22:00 How TheyDo is built as the data layer AI agents run on LINKEDIN Jochem van der Veer — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/ THEYDO Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com Subscribe to The Experience Edge for weekly conversations on customer experience, journey management, and the future of enterprise CX. Share this episode with someone who's thinking about how their organisation connects customer insight to real decisions. #TheExperienceEdge #vanderVeer #ExperienceOntology #CXAI #EnterpriseAI #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #CX #TheyDo #podcast

    21 min

  4. Jun 4

    How To Turn Messy CX Data Into AI-ready Team Action

    Your teams are drowning in customer data but can't act on it. Here's a 5-level framework that makes the customer journey your operating system. IN THIS EPISODE Why another dashboard won't fix your customer data problem How to connect what customers say with what they actually do Why the customer journey — not your org chart — should organize your data How a "meaning layer" creates cross-team alignment without reorganizing teams How journey-structured data becomes an ontology that AI and agents can reason over CHAPTERS 00:00 The real problem: a data organizing problem, not a data problem  02:19 The five layers, and why the journey is the organizing principle  02:19 Level 1 — Evidence: the qualitative voice of the customer  04:46 Level 2 — Measurement: KPIs and what customers actually do  06:00 The journey as the backbone that joins the dots  07:15 Pinning every signal and KPI to a moment in the experience  08:00 Level 3 — Meaning: surfacing the "why" (the Lufthansa baggage example) 09:38 Level 4 — Cross-team connection and natural alignment  11:58 Level 5 — Business impact and competitive advantage  14:03 Putting it together: the journey as your operating system Follow Jochem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/ CONNECT WITH US: Website:    https://www.theydo.com/ LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/company/theydo-journey-management/ #CustomerExperience #CustomerJourney #JourneyManagement #CXStrategy #DataStrategy #VoiceOfCustomer #CustomerData #CXOps #AIagents #ProductStrategy

    15 min

  5. May 27

    Why Your CX Message Isn't Landing

    Your CX pitch lands with practitioners but dies with CEOs. Here's the messaging framework that fixes it.  IN THIS EPISODE Why CX leaders keep pitching the wrong message to the wrong room — and how to diagnose it How to talk to a CEO or COO about customer experience without mentioning customer experience What product leaders actually need to hear before they'll prioritise CX on the roadmap When to lead with technology — and why it's only right for one specific audience The two most common messaging mistakes CX teams make and how to avoid them CHAPTERS 00:00 Intro — Why CX storytelling breaks down  01:04 The real-world example: energy company, call volume, cost mandate  02:10 Three audience buckets: Out-of-CX, CX-adjacent, CX expert  03:29 How to pitch the out-of-CX crowd (CEOs, COOs)  05:00 How to pitch the middle layer (product, marketing, brand)  08:08 How to pitch CX practitioners — and when to lead with technology  09:49 The full messaging stack: outcomes, use case, technology  10:30 Two mistakes to avoid: stacking arguments and mixing audiences  12:12 Key takeaways — same work, three different messages Follow Jochem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/ CONNECT WITH US:Website:    https://www.theydo.com/ LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/company/theydo-journey-management/ #TheExperienceEdge #CustomerExperience #CXStrategy #CXLeadership #CustomerJourney #JourneyManagement #CXMessaging #CostToServe #VoiceOfCustomer #CustomerInsights

    13 min

  6. Apr 29

    Ep. 73 - Rethinking Empathy In High Stakes Moments

    Is empathy a staffing choice or a design decision? We often assume that emotionally charged moments demand a human touch. This episode challenges that instinct. In a world where AI is always available, always calm, and increasingly capable, the real question isn’t human versus machine - it’s whether we’ve misunderstood what empathy actually requires in the first place. In this video: Why empathy is not inherently human, but contextual How rigid automation creates frustration in high-need moments When AI provides a safer, more effective interaction than people What defines a “moment that matters” in customer experience How to design support models around need, not channel Why defaulting to human vs AI is the wrong framing entirely If empathy isn’t about who delivers it, but how it’s experienced, what should you be designing for? Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #CustomerCentricity #DigitalTransformation #AIinCX #ExperienceDesign #OrganizationalDesign #CXStrategy #DesignThinking #CustomerJourneys #DecisionMaking #ProductStrategy #HumanCenteredDesign

    4 min

  7. Apr 22

    Ep 72 - Why AI Needs Journey Context to Actually Work

    Mark Smith and Raymond Gerber, former competitors turned co-founders of the Institute for Journey Management, join Jochem van der Veer to unpack how enterprise CX is evolving in the age of AI. Drawing on decades of experience across Kitewheel and Thunderhead, they explore how journey orchestration is being reshaped by generative AI and organizational transformation. At the center is a key tension: AI enables scale and personalization, but without journey context and operational alignment, it risks amplifying broken experiences. The conversation reveals why journey context is no longer just a customer-facing construct, but a critical internal capability for aligning decisions, breaking silos, and enabling truly adaptive, value-driven CX. Guest Bio Mark Smith is a pioneer in customer analytics and journey orchestration, with over 30 years of experience in predictive modeling and customer engagement. He founded Kitewheel and led it to become a market leader in journey orchestration. His work has consistently focused on aligning data-driven decisioning with business constraints and customer value. He now co-leads the Institute for Journey Management. Raymond Gerber is a leading voice in journey orchestration and enterprise CX, with multiple patents in the field. As former CEO of Thunderhead, he helped shape the category before its acquisition by Medallia. His expertise spans AI, decisioning systems, and operating model design. He is now focused on advancing journey-centric transformation through the Institute for Journey Management. Key Takeaways - Journey context is multi-dimensional, combining temporal, situational, directional, and constraint-based elements that guide both AI decisions and business actions - Generative AI shifts value from prediction to prescription, enabling continuous, closed-loop learning driven by real-time customer intent - Internal alignment is the real bottleneck, journey context matters more inside the organization than for customers who simply “live” the experience - Hyper-personalization evolves from static next-best actions to dynamic, conversational interactions powered by structured and unstructured data fusion - Journey management must evolve from project-based initiatives to an embedded operating model tied to value exchange between customer and business Chapters 00:00 Why journey context matters for AI agents and workflows 00:03 Defining customer journey context in enterprise CX 00:08 AI in customer experience and the shift to non-deterministic journeys 00:12 Hyper-personalization and next best action evolution 00:15 Breaking down silos with shared journey context 00:19 Structured vs unstructured data in journey orchestration 00:23 Internal alignment and journey management strategy 00:28 Journey-centric operating model vs project mindset 00:33 Predictive vs prescriptive AI in customer experience 00:38 Enterprise CX transformation and journey-led value management LinkedIn Profiles Guests: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mapsmith/https://www.linkedin.com/in/golfergerbs/Jochem van der Veer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/ #EnterpriseCustomerExperience #CustomerJourneyOrchestration #CXTransformationStrategy #CustomerExperienceLeadership #JourneyCentricity #CXOperatingModel #CustomerExperienceInnovation #AIJourneyOrchestration #IntelligentCustomerEngagement #AIPoweredPersonalization #ConversationalAIExperience #AIForCustomerJourneys

    1h 12m

  8. Apr 15

    Ep. 71 - Why Omnichannel Is Slowing AI Adoption in Enterprises

    Over the past decade, many companies pursued omnichannel by adding touchpoints rather than designing continuity. The result is fragmented data, repeated customer effort, and teams optimizing for channels instead of journeys. In this environment, AI becomes a high-speed engine running on incomplete context. The real shift isn’t about better models, but about building shared, journey-level context — where aligned data, KPIs, and language turn AI from a surface tool into a system-wide capability that reshapes how organizations understand and act on customer reality. In this episode: Why adding AI to fragmented journeys increases cost instead of reducing it How “more channels” became the false proxy for omnichannel maturity What journey-level context actually means — and why AI depends on it When cross-functional KPIs outperform channel optimization How shared experience language makes both teams and AI effective What it takes to turn AI from a responder into a true context engine If AI is only as good as the context it operates in, what does your organization actually enable it to understand? Follow Jochem on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer Learn more about Journey Management with TheyDo:https://www.theydo.com #CustomerExperience #JourneyManagement #ServiceDesign #CXStrategy #DigitalTransformation #AIinBusiness #OrganizationalDesign #CustomerJourneys #DataStrategy #ExperienceDesign #BusinessTransformation #CustomerCentricity #OperatingModel #DecisionMaking

    8 min
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
2 Ratings

About

Hosted by Jochem van der Veer, customer-obsessed founder of TheyDo, this weekly podcast dives into conversations with senior professionals, pioneers, and industry leaders at the forefront of CX. Guests openly share their experiences on customer journeys, voice of the customer, customer-centric transformation, journey management, and best practices for lasting impact.

Information

  • Creator
    Jochem van der Veer
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    86
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Jochem van der Veer
  • Show Website
    The Experience Edge