⚠️ Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of suicide, suicide loss, grief, and mental health. Please proceed with care. What happens when the story you've built your grief around turns out to be a different story entirely? In this deeply moving episode, Jennifer sits down with Lisa Sugarman, author, mental health advocate, crisis counselor, and suicide loss survivor, in Salem, Massachusetts, to talk about one of the most profound and disorienting experiences a person can face: learning, decades later, that her father had died by suicide. Lisa was ten years old when she lost her father - the person she describes as her best friend and her whole world. For 35 years, she grieved him and his sudden death. Then, at 45, the same age her father was when he died, she learned the truth. What followed was not just a second wave of grief, but an entirely new kind of reckoning, one that forced her to revisit every memory, every conversation, and every piece of the story she had carried inside her for a lifetime. Lisa and Jennifer explore what it means to grieve someone twice, the particular and layered weight of suicide loss, the courage it took Lisa's mother to carry this secret alone for 35 years, and how Lisa ultimately transformed her pain into a life of advocacy - becoming a crisis counselor with the Trevor Project, a facilitator with Samaritans, and the creator of the Help Hub, one of the most comprehensive mental health resource platforms available today. This is a conversation about truth, compassion, and what it looks like to turn the heaviest thing you carry into something that helps others carry theirs. 📍 This episode was recorded in Salem, Massachusetts. MEET LISA SUGARMANLisa Sugarman is an author and three-time survivor of suicide loss. A passionate mental health advocate, she serves as a crisis counselor with The Trevor Project and as a storyteller with the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI), where she uses her lived experience to help others find healing through connection and community. She's the Founder of The HelpHUB™, the most inclusive and comprehensive free online destination for mental health resources, tools, treatment options, crisis hotlines, and content designed to support the diverse needs of every community. Lisa is the author of Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (2026), How to Raise Perfectly Imperfect Kids and Be OK With It (2019), Untying Parent Anxiety (2017), and LIFE: It Is What It Is (2014). She also cohosts The Survivors Podcast, a show that provides candid conversations and real stories of survival for anyone impacted by suicide or mental illness. Lisa is also a facilitator for Safe Place, a virtual support group for survivors of suicide loss hosted by Samaritans Southcoast in Boston, where she also serves as a board member. She is a contributor to the Mental Health Television Network (MHTN), and her writing has appeared in Calmerry, Healthline Parenthood, Grown & Flown, TODAY Parents, Thrive Global, LittleThings, The Washington Post, and Psychology Today. A former nationally syndicated columnist, Lisa continues to write widely on topics of suicide, grief & loss, and mental health and wellness. Lisa lives and writes just north of Boston. Learn more at TheHepHUB.co. CONNECT WITH LISA🌐 Website: TheHelpHUB.co 📘 Facebook: facebook.com/thelisasugarman 📹 YouTube: youtube.com/@thehelphubonyoutube 📱TikTok: tiktok.com/@thehelphubontiktok 📸 Instagram: instagram.com/thehelphub.co 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lisa-sugarman KEY TAKEAWAYSHere's what stayed with us long after this conversation ended: Suicide grief is its own category of loss. Unlike other forms of grief, losing someone to suicide layers on shame, guilt, the unanswerable why, and a kind of reckoning that never fully closes. Lisa describes it as a spiral staircase - you move up and down it unpredictably, and the only way through is radical grace for wherever you happen to be standing that day.You can grieve someone twice. When Lisa learned the truth about her father's death at 45, every feeling from age ten rushed back in an instant. Grief, she reflects, lives in the body, and learning a new truth about an old loss can restart the whole process from minute one. This is not a failure of healing, it’s part of it.Secrets kept out of love still carry weight. Lisa's mother bore 35 years of silence to protect her daughter. Lisa holds no resentment. Instead, she sees her mother's choice as one of the most extraordinary acts of love she has ever witnessed. And the 12-year conversation that followed the truth being revealed became one of the most beautiful chapters of their relationship.The people who seem the happiest can be carrying the most. Lisa's father was joyful, adventurous, deeply present, and also privately struggling in ways no one around him could see. This is not an anomaly, it’s a reminder that we cannot rely on surface presentation to gauge the depth of someone's pain, and that checking in matters even when everything looks fine.Grief does not end, and that's okay to say out loud. Our hustle culture wants us to process, tidy up, and move on. Lisa pushes back: grief is not a box you check. Naming that truth without apology is, itself, a form of liberation. When we stop waiting to be done grieving, we can finally meet ourselves where we actually are.Knowledge is protection, not burden. When Lisa finally told her daughters about their grandfather's suicide, she wasn't passing down trauma, she was giving them the tools to understand their own mental health landscape. Families that speak openly about mental illness, she believes, raise children who are more likely to seek help when they need it.Compassion is showing up exactly where someone is. When asked what compassion means to her, Lisa's answer was grounded and precise: true compassion is meeting someone in their actual moment, without an agenda, without a fix, and holding space for whatever form that moment takes.STAY CONNECTEDThe Human Experience Podcast | Instagram | Facebook The Human Experience Legacies | Instagram Connect with Jennifer on Substack | LinkedIn Support the Podcast