09/23/2025

The Art of Relational Work: What the Research Really Tells Us with David Jay

In this episode of the Relational Podcast, host Rachel Sinha is joined by David Jay, author of 'Relationality: How Moving from Transactional to Transformational Relationships Can Reshape Our Lonely World.' The discussion explores the transformative power of deep listening and meaningful relationships in addressing societal crises. David shares his journey from founding asexuality.org to advocating for relational ecosystems in movements and workplaces. Key concepts discussed include relational invisibility, the impact of personal storytelling, and the importance of creating environments where relationships can thrive. David emphasizes releasing control to allow relationships to evolve naturally and offers insights into how relational approaches can solve complex problems more effectively than top-down strategies. 00:47 Welcoming David Jay 01:56 David Jay's Journey and Work 05:41 Defining Relationality 08:55 Creating Relational Environments 12:32 Relational Systems and Social Movements 16:30 Challenges and Skepticism 21:10 Practical Advice for Building Relationships 24:47 Conclusion and Final Thoughts A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in! By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/ Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

26 min

09/16/2025

The Messy Revolution: Why Imperfection Builds Stronger Communities with Avani Parekh

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, host Meg Busse sits down with Avani Parekh, a community builder and technologist bridging digital and physical spaces to create true connection. Together, they explore the epidemic of loneliness, how trust and humanness are built in anonymous online networks, and why "touching grass"—real-world connection—is essential in our hyper-digital lives. Avani shares her experience building Love Doctor, a confidential platform for young people in South Asia to discuss sexual health and relationships, born from a moment of national grief and activism. She reflects on the role of weavers—trusted connectors who humanize digital spaces—and calls for intentionality in making online spaces lead to offline human connection.The conversation is a rallying cry for all digital builders, community weavers, and humans: show up in your messiness, invite others in, and bring people together face-to-face.Topics We Cover: The origins and impact of Love Doctor in taboo contextsBuilding trust and "weavers" in faceless online worldsWhy every digital community needs a "touch grass" momentHow showing up as your imperfect, real self sparks collective healing and changeA big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in! By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation. Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/ Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

41 min

09/09/2025

Resourcing Change Relationally and Participatory Grantmaking with Catherine Dempsey

Host Ana Amrein Esnaola talks with Catherine Dempsey about why interdependent relationships—not transactions—drive social change. We explore participatory grantmaking, trust-based funding, and consensus decision-making, plus practical first steps (beginning with deep listening). Learn how centering community and connection builds resilience, improves funding decisions, and powers systemic impact. 00:59 — Meet Catherine: Collaborative development & social value02:31 — Birds, sky, connection: Everyday cues for interdependence09:25 — Participatory grantmaking: Community power in funding13:09 — Relational approaches at work: From silos to ecosystems27:02 — Governance & consensus: What inclusive decisions look like30:44 — Why now: Democracy, resilience, and trust-based practice31:57 — Start here: Deep listening as a daily disciplineA big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation. Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/ Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

33 min

09/02/2025

The Power of Relational Design in Social Impact with Melanie Kahl

We talk about social impact, but what about relational impact? In this episode, we delve into the radical idea that meaningful conversations and deep relationships drive transformative social change more effectively than policies or technologies alone. Melanie, a designer and facilitator based in Brooklyn with roots in the Midwest, explores how her work at the intersection of design and social impact centers on relational processes. Born out of her background in studying how people make change in organizations, neighborhoods, and social movements, Melanie explores how relational and appreciative approaches enhance research and design— even in large corporations.Drawing from the wisdom of Corita Kent and Wendell Berry, Melanie shares the spiritual imperative of relational ways of working in this moment of upheaval. At its core, relational ways of working reveal individual potential and tap into collective possibilities—that’s what practitioners must center. By highlighting case studies in education, retail, theater, and crisis response, Melanie illustrates how fostering human connection creates resilience, amplifies creativity, and creates more durable impact. Join us in exploring how every story and every conversation illuminates the power of relationships. What you’ll learn: 🔸Snail Mail & New Walks: The power of analog joy in a digital world 🔸Back to Basics: Returning to relational ways of working 🔸Defining Relationality through Possibility: What a creative nun and agrarian poet teach us about relational creativity 🔸Case Study: How creatively engaging with retail employees shifted power, deepened relationships, and shaped creative change for a beloved brand 🔸Rehearsing Trust: What relational practitioners can learn from long-form improv comedy 🔸Crisis as the crucible: Relationships formed in crisis and the power of creative, relational approaches in emergent change 🔸Microcosms of change: What the “Early Relational Health” field demonstrates about the power of relational work in policy and systems change 🔸Action Steps: The power of dinner parties and telling stories of the unexpected 🔸Imaginary Book club: Solnit’s “A Paradise Built in Hell” and Ehrenreich’s” Dancing in the Streets” 🔸Relational lineages: The power of reflecting on understanding your relational roots as a practitioner Dig deeper: 📚Books recommended:“A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster” by Rebecca Solnit“Dancing in the Streets: A History of Collective Joy” by Barbara Ehrenreich📝 Follow “The Meld” on Substack—forthcoming newsletter on relational alchemy 💬 Connect with Melanie on LinkedIn, Instagram, Threads 🖥 Be in touch! WebsiteLatest research on kinship and connectionA big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in! By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation. Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/ Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

38 min

08/26/2025

The Magic of Transforming Strangers with Georgie Nightingall

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, Melanie Kahl and Georgie Nightingall engage in an intimate conversation exploring the transformative power of relationships and deep listening. We’ll delve into the unseen forces of connection and reciprocity, discussing how meaningful interactions are pivotal for change. Georgie shares personal experiences, the founding of her company Trigger Conversations, and insights from her PhD research on human connection. You’ll learn practices for being a better relational leader (mapping ripples!) and how to think about the multifaceted value of relationships (from cognitive to social-emotional). Follow Georgie’s journey from her early days in project management to becoming a Sandbox member and from Trigger conversations to a PhD in human connection. The episode emphasizes the importance of building trust, co-creation, and participatory roles in fostering a connected and resilient community. Through storytelling and reflection, the conversation highlights the critical role of relationality in driving social impact and navigating complex challenges. 00:53 Centering and Grounding Ritual 03:48 Introducing Georgie: A Social Entrepreneur 08:39 Trigger Conversations: The Birth of an Idea 11:23 The Power of Relational Work in Organizations 19:23 Relational Leadership in Action 20:53 The Sandbox Community Model 29:30 Mapping Relational Ripples 33:51 Practical Steps for Relational Leadership Links: Centering and Grounding Ritual: Crown Shyness, Mother Trees, and poem: Clearing – Martha PostlethwaiteGeorgie’s organisation Trigger ConversationsGeorgie’s TEDx Talk, “Talking to Strangers”Georgie’s research on five types of interaction structures Newsletter: Conversations with GeorgiePersonal Website: www.georgienightingall.co.uk A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together – especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in! By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision.We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation. Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/ Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

37 min

08/17/2025

The power of relationships in addressing global crises with Sumitra Pasupathy

In this episode of the Relational Podcast, host Georgie Nightingall engages in a profound conversation with Sumitra Pasupathy, of KAI Advisory and partner at Philanthropy Dialogues about the transformative power of relationships in addressing global crises. Sumitra shares her rich family heritage, her journey from being an engineer to a social innovator, and her work with resource and wealth holders. She highlights the importance of trust, deep listening, and relational frameworks in effecting meaningful social change. The discussion delves into the concept of social innovation versus product innovation, the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on her work, and practical steps for embracing relational leadership. 00:00 Introduction to the Relational Podcast 00:59 Meet Sumitra: A Journey of Heritage and Social Impact 02:27 The Influence of Family and Community 05:36 From Engineering to Social Innovation 08:05 A Pivotal Moment During COVID-19 11:35 The Power of Relational Trust 18:48 Facing the Poly Crisis with Trust and Collaboration 25:28 Practical Steps for Embracing Relationa lLeadership 27:53 Conclusion: The Heart of Transformation A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in! By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation. Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/ Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

28 min

08/12/2025

Why belonging matters in a rapidly complex world with Fabian Pfortmüller

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, host Sumitra Pasupathy, of Karuna Advisory Impact (KAI) and partner at Philanthropy Dialogues speaks to Fabian Pfortmüller to explore the transformative power of genuine human connections and relationships. Fabian Pfortmüller, is partner at Together Institute, an organization that works with purpose-driven communities, networks and their leaders to help them thrive. Fabian is co-creator of the Wasan Network, a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Fabian writes a newsletter on community and is co-author of the Community Canvas and the Community Weaving Framework, both open-source community building frameworks. They discuss how deep listening and relationality can drive systemic change, sharing personal stories and insights on belonging, community building, and the role of relational leadership. Fabian delves into his own journey from Switzerland to Amsterdam, his experiences with the Sandbox community, and the impact of fostering deep, intentional relationships. The conversation covers the significance of belonging, the limitations of transactional networking, and the importance of caring for relationships within various fields. They also touch on philosophical and practical aspects of relational work, urging resource holders to value and support these essential human connections. They end with practical advice on how to start working relationally, emphasizing the power of making genuine invitations. 00:00 Introduction to the Relational Podcast 02:36 Meet Fabo: A Journey of Connection 07:47 The Power of Belonging 12:04 Why Relational Work Matters 17:19 Creating Communities of Change 22:40 Amplfying RelationalLeadership 27:50 Practical Steps to Start Working Relationally 29:00 Closing Reflections A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in! By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation. Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/ Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

28 min

08/05/2025

Deep Listening, Real Change: Exploring Relational Leadership with Meg Busse

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, Fabian Pfortmüller and Meg Busse explore the power of relationships in social change, the unique design of the Roddenberry Fellowship, and practical ways to foster connection and abundance in communities. Meg shares personal stories, challenges, and insights from leading a fellow-driven network, and both hosts reflect on the value of slowing down and deep listening in a fast-paced world. Key Moments: 00:52 – Meet Meg Busse: Her background, passions, and the Roddenberry Foundation 02:10 – The impact of the Roddenberry Fellowship: Building solidarity and trust 04:53 – Shifting to fellow-led retreats and network ownership 08:46 – How the fellowship changed Meg personally 10:56 – Designing for connection, abundance, and glimpses of the future 13:13 – The annual rhythm: Retreats, coaching, and community touchpoints 15:24 – The benefits and challenges of fellow-led retreats 17:35 – How Meg’s role shifted with distributed leadership 19:19 – Addressing skepticism: Why relational work is “soft, slow, and magical” 21:36 – Practical advice: How to start working more relationally 24:29 – The importance of asking questions and fostering curiosity 25:54 – Final reflections: Making the case for relationships and closing thoughts A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in! By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation. Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/ Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

28 min

The Relational Podcast

Episodes

The Art of Relational Work: What the Research Really Tells Us with David Jay

The Messy Revolution: Why Imperfection Builds Stronger Communities with Avani Parekh

Resourcing Change Relationally and Participatory Grantmaking with Catherine Dempsey

The Power of Relational Design in Social Impact with Melanie Kahl

The Magic of Transforming Strangers with Georgie Nightingall

The power of relationships in addressing global crises with Sumitra Pasupathy

Why belonging matters in a rapidly complex world with Fabian Pfortmüller

Deep Listening, Real Change: Exploring Relational Leadership with Meg Busse

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