The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

Jeremy Rivera

Hosted by Jeremy Rivera: A 17 year career expert in the SEO industry and his cohost Keith Bresee. Get insights, action items and anecdotes from experts like Lilyray, Kevin Indig, Rand Fishkin, Matt Mellinger and more in the SEO industry, who are not only well-respected, but have really interesting stories to share. 100% unscripted, 100% unrehearsed, 100% unedited, and 100% real. Guaranteed to provide those golden nugget lightbulb moments.

  1. 4D AGO

    Benas Leonavicius on AI Search Optimization, Scaling Freelance SEO, and Why Keynote Speakers Need Basic SEO

    Benas Leonavicius Freelance SEO Consultant & Agency Builder Website | LinkedIn | Substack Benas Leonavicius has spent 10 years in the SEO trenches—from working with large e-commerce sites to navigating the bureaucratic nightmare of enterprise SaaS SEO. Now he's building an agency focused on keynote speakers, authors, and coaches, where basic SEO fundamentals deliver outsized results. In this conversation, we dive deep into: Why AI search optimization is the new frontier (and why tracking is nearly impossible) How to actually appear in ChatGPT and AI overviews The shift from website-centric to entity-centric SEO Why SaaS companies are terrible clients for freelance SEO scalability The #1 thing keynote speakers get wrong (hint: they don't mention their keywords) Whether new people should enter SEO in 2025 If you're a freelancer trying to scale, a speaker trying to get found, or anyone wondering how AI is changing search—this episode is for you. Key Topics Discussed AI Search Optimization (11:11 - 21:03) The biggest challenge with AI search: tracking is nearly impossible How ChatGPT and Perplexity source their answers (training data + tiered Google searches) Why speaker bureaus and listicles dominate AI search results for keynote speakers The 25% consistency problem: AI gives different answers to different users Backlinks, PR, mentions, and social media as the foundation of AI visibility How to reverse-engineer AI sources by simply asking ChatGPT what it referenced The SaaS SEO Nightmare (03:47 - 07:34) Why SaaS companies limit freelancer scalability (1-2 clients max per month) The JIRA ticket trap: submitting tickets just to edit meta descriptions Managing multiple stakeholders with competing priorities How product changes constantly disrupt long-term SEO strategy Why Benas stopped taking SaaS clients despite their lucrative budgets Keynote Speaker SEO Opportunities (02:14 - 03:47, 25:19 - 28:10) Why 90% of speakers have zero SEO optimization The differentiation trap: avoiding keywords to sound unique The highest ROI fix: adding proper meta titles with target keywords Why speakers already have strong websites—they just don't know it Talk Thrive Agency: Benas's keynote speaker SEO service Content vs. Links vs. Technical SEO (07:34 - 09:07) Why Benas focuses on on-page content optimization Link building feels "solved" and basic in 2025 Technical SEO's limitations for most businesses Finding the middle ground between all three domains AI Content Creation Reality Check (09:07 - 11:11) ChatGPT as "your most popular but least trained customer support rep" (Matt Brooks, SEOteric) Why Benas doesn't jump on new AI tools immediately Using AI as a brainstorming and first draft tool, not a final solution The hallucination and authenticity problem with over-reliance Entity SEO vs. Website SEO (15:21 - 20:08) How LLMs use training databases and tiered search results Getting third-party content ranked, even when it's not on your site Why digital visibility is shifting from website-centric to entity-centric Direct traffic increasing as people find brands through AI, not clicks Impressions mattering more than clicks (the Instagram-ification of search) Should You Freelance in SEO Today? (21:03 - 23:24) Why...

    28 min
  2. FEB 6

    Jeremy Yang on Paid Ads Strategy and the SEO-SEM Divide

    In this episode, Jeremy Rivera sits down with Jeremy Yang, founder of Digital Goliath, to explore the often-siloed world of paid advertising and how it intersects with SEO. Managing over $450,000 in monthly ad spend, Jeremy Yang shares brutal truths about Google Ads setup mistakes, the death of exact match keywords, and why most businesses fail at Meta advertising before they even start. From offshore Google support nightmares to the "bullets in the chamber" framework for platform selection, this conversation reveals what seven years of hands-on PPC experience teaches you about digital marketing that no certification ever will. Guest Jeremy Yang Founder, Digital Goliath Website | LinkedIn Jeremy founded Digital Goliath seven years ago and currently manages about $450,000 per month in ad spend across Google Ads and Meta platforms. Based in Sydney, Australia, he works with small to mid-sized businesses and white labels for larger agencies, specializing in high-accountability, hands-on campaign management. Key Topics Discussed The SEO-SEM Divide (00:00 - 05:00) Why paid ads and SEO teams rarely communicate Operational intensity differences between channels Knowledge-sharing culture in PPC vs. SEO communities Why Google gives advertisers more data than SEOs get Google Ads Setup Nightmares (05:00 - 10:00) The fox guarding the henhouse: letting Google set up your campaigns Offshore vs. onshore Google support experiences Most common setup errors (cramming everything into one campaign) Why following scripts doesn't work in modern PPC The Death of Exact Match (10:00 - 15:00) How Google Ads has shifted to theme-based campaigns Everything is "broad-ish" now regardless of match type settings Competitor brands sneaking into your keyword auctions Performance Max and the return of negative lists ROAS-based campaign structuring for e-commerce Display Ads: Remarketing Only (15:00 - 20:00) Why display should only be used for remarketing The spammy site problem and how to exclude them Diminishing returns on display, YouTube, and discovery feeds Strategic use of minimal display budgets ($10-20) for brand presence Platform Selection Framework (20:00 - 30:00) "How many bullets you got in the chamber?" - the content asset question Meta is about burnout: why you need consistent creative production When to go 80% Google, 20% Bing (service businesses without video) When Meta makes sense (businesses with UGC and video capabilities) Real-world example: Bubble.com Casting (children's modeling agency) Cost Realities Nobody Discusses (30:00 - 35:00) High-CPC industries: $200/click for tow trucks, $150/click for credit cards Why $30/click for lawyers isn't unusual Budget requirements for competitive industries When to rely on Performance Max vs. traditional search campaigns SEO Value Proposition for Small Business (35:00 - 45:00) If you run out of ad budget, your campaign's over SEO builds appreciable assets that compound over time The upscale effect vs. the burn rate of paid ads Working with ads teams to target expensive keywords organically Client filtering: not every client is worth acquiring AI Overviews and the Future of Search (45:00 - 55:00) ChatGPT ads platform: $60-80 CPMs for businesses spending $1M+ The "charge and forget" model vs. nuanced ad platforms AI overview impact: 25-40% traffic loss for publisher sites The mea...

    48 min
  3. FEB 5

    Kyle Merrick: The Golden Rule Applies To How You Approach YOUR Business

    What happens when a marketing coach who's also an actor sits down to talk about authenticity in business? You get one of the most unfiltered conversations about trust, AI, and human connection in marketing that we've had on this show. Kyle Merrick doesn't pull punches. As the founder of Anarchy For A Day and a marketing veteran with nearly a decade of agency experience, he's seen it all—and he's not afraid to call BS on what's broken in modern marketing. In this episode, we dive deep into the tension between performance and authenticity, why AI-generated content is killing trust, and how businesses can differentiate themselves in commodified markets. Kyle brings a unique perspective as both a marketer and an actor, understanding how to build believability while staying within boundaries. This conversation gets heated, philosophical, and practical all at once. If you're tired of the same sanitized marketing advice, this episode is for you. Key Topics Discussed Trust & Authenticity in Marketing (00:00-10:02) Why marketers have a trust problem The challenge of discerning real vs. fake in the digital age How social media has groomed us to accept mixed messages The importance of delivery over content AI vs. Human Connection (10:02-22:31) Why AI-generated marketing content fails to build trust The role of podcasting as a "safe space" for authentic conversation How LLM tools confidently lie (and why that's dangerous) The laziness trap: when efficiency kills effectiveness The Coloring Book Analogy (22:31-27:39) Finding authenticity within corporate boundaries How to differentiate without going "cray-cray" Showing customer pain points authentically The golden rule applied to business communication Market Understanding & Differentiation (27:39-37:23) Why most businesses don't truly understand their marketplace How to differentiate in commodified industries The importance of speaking your customer's language Interviewing clients as a core marketing strategy Consistency & Long-Term Thinking (37:23-40:15) Why consistency beats overnight success How search engines and humans reward sustained effort Understanding where your audience actually spends time Building trust through reliable, authentic communication Notable Quotes "No marketer is really trustworthy until you actually get to know them. So I'm not even going to try to pitch myself on that." "I don't give a shit about anything your business has to say if you're using AI. Let me see the people behind it, even if they're paid actors." "Human to human podcast. This is the very important bit." "Having been in business for myself for a decade now, it's like, this is the only kind of conversation I actually value because I know it's real, because you can sense the pain behind my words." "People don't truly understand their marketplace. Go talk to the people that you're trying to serve or provide solutions to or sell a product to, whatever. Get to know them, their world." "I always think about it like a coloring book. The lines are really what is within bound and reason for what is going to be believable." "If you want real conversation, dish it out. Maybe that's the best answer to how can we get more genuine conversation in corporate marketing. F*****g do it. It ain't that hard." "Business is still human. And if we're not accounting for that human factor, I wish you the best." "Consistency is key. You need to be doing it a while for these different robotic entities to deem, 'All right, well, you're human and you do this.'" ...

    40 min
  4. JAN 22

    Charlie Sells on Brand Building and SEO Strategy

    Charlie Sells brings 15 years of experience in brand messaging and positioning to discuss how small businesses can cut through complexity and build authentic brands that show up in search. Key Topics Covered Service Business Branding Charlie explains why service-based businesses should "stay hyper local" rather than trying to compete regionally. His advice for finding your competitive advantage? "Don't try to be bigger. Don't try to be flashier. Don't try to be anything other than who you are." Working with a Florida event staffing company, Charlie discovered their retention rate was in the 80-90% range. "They're the most trusted name in conference and event staff"—that became their differentiator, not trying to be the biggest. The Two-Part Brand Audit Framework Charlie always looks for two things: "Are we being really consistent? Every touchpoint of our brand—does it look the same, does it sound the same, does it feel the same on a sales call, social media, website, emails, in-person interactions?" Second: "Are you really leaning into your unique competitive advantage?" Branded vs. Non-Branded Search From his time at Dave Ramsey's Ramsey Solutions, Charlie learned a crucial lesson: "If they will get their branded terms right, then you can focus on the non-branded terms." He warns that "shiny object syndrome is rampant amongst entrepreneurs" who chase non-branded traffic while neglecting the basics. His blunt take: "Search engines are the yellow pages today. You want to make it easy for somebody to just find you like that." The Website Problem Charlie's most surprising piece of advice for clients: "If the weight of your business lands on your website, you have a problem." Why? Your website is just one piece of your ecosystem. "If everything in your ecosystem is speaking the same language, then it's going to work." But when there's "no cohesive experience, no ecosystem," that's when brands struggle. Technical SEO Still Matters Charlie shares a story about his staffing client who had keywords "in the graphic at the top of our page. In a designed graphic that can't be crawled, that had no alt text. I'm like, 'Nobody cares about that and Google's not recognizing it.'" The lesson? "You have to plant a flag in the ground and say, here I am, and make it easy for people to find you." Is SEO Dead? Charlie's take on the AI/LLM disruption: "I don't think traditional SEO is dead still. I think it still matters." While LLMs are changing search, "somebody is still looking for what you have" and "it still matters that you match intent more than anything else." His strategy for the AI era? "I'm pushing folks to go way more grassroots and find ways to get on podcasts with niche audiences that are actually in their ICP." Charlie's Two Essential Switches When onboarding clients, Charlie always starts with: Mindset of Curiosity: "You've got to have a mindset of curiosity. If you are certain, if you are dead set, if you are rigid in your thinking about your brand, then this is not going to go well." His favorite question: "What is it like to be on the receiving end of your brand?" Hold It With an Open Hand: "We've got to zoom out and not just think end of the month, end of the quarter. We've got to think about if where we want to be a year from now is our goal. What has to be true between now and then?" Redirecting Good Ideas One of Charlie's most valuable skills is helping clients understand placement: "Just because it doesn't belong here doesn't mean it doesn't belong somewhere." A direct-to-camera video might be perfect for an email sequence but wrong for the homepage. Resources Mentioned

    35 min
  5. JAN 19

    From Word of Mouth to Online Leads: Local SEO Strategies for Home Service Contractors with Wyatt Bonicelli

    Wyatt Bonicelli of Evolve Agency shares practical local SEO tactics for home service businesses—from Google Business Profile optimization and location page strategy to creative link building through local sponsorships and a clever gift card referral system that turns every customer into a lead generator. Episode Summary In this episode, Jeremy Rivera on the Unscripted SEO podcast by Be Sharp Digital Marketing sits down with Wyatt Bonicelli, founder of Evolve Agency in Edmond, Oklahoma, to discuss the unique challenges and opportunities in marketing home service contractors. An engineer turned marketer, Wyatt has carved out a niche helping window cleaners, roofers, and other service professionals transition from relying solely on word-of-mouth to building a sustainable online presence that generates leads on autopilot. The conversation covers the full spectrum of local SEO—from the critical importance of Google Business Profile verification to the age-old question of "how many location pages are too many?" Wyatt shares his approach to building local authority through sponsorship link building, Chamber of Commerce memberships, and creative tactics like using ChatGPT to find partnership opportunities. Perhaps most valuable are the practical, low-cost marketing wins Wyatt recommends: car magnets, A-frame signs, door hangers with neighbor referrals, and a brilliant gift card system that creates a built-in affiliate program for service businesses. He also drops a Google Maps "driving directions hack" that sends trust signals to Google daily. The episode wraps with a candid discussion about lead follow-up—why 90% of service calls go unanswered and how the Harvard study showing 400% better conversion within five minutes should change how contractors approach their phones. Key Topics Covered Why home service contractors struggle to invest in marketing (and how to meet them where they are) Google Business Profile optimization for service-area businesses without a physical address The location page debate: How many is too many in 2024? Hub-and-spoke internal linking strategy for multi-location businesses Creative link building through local sponsorships and advanced Google queries The noindex mistake that cost one client years of branded search visibility Steve Hunziker's gift card referral system explained Why LLMs haven't disrupted local SEO (yet) Combining Meta ads with SEO for short-term and long-term growth The $10/day Meta ad strategy that pre-sells door-to-door visits Lead follow-up statistics that should terrify every service business owner Low-hanging fruit: Car magnets, A-frames, and door hangers The Chamber of Commerce SEO bump Google Maps driving directions hack for daily trust signals Quotable Moments "Any page on your website that doesn't have a link internally, externally, it's probably not going to get indexed." "You're 400% more likely to convert if you call within the first five minutes." "Let's turn one lead into more. Let's try to get three or four out of every one. And that pyramid will just continue to grow." "We're kind of in a bubble a lot of times and think that everybody else is using the tools the same way that we are." "If they don't have any web presence at all, no online reviews or a website talking about what they do and where—it's a little harder to trust them with a big check." Guest Bio Wyatt Bonicelli is the founder of Evolve Agency, a digital marketing firm based in Edmond, Oklahoma specializing in web development and SEO for home service contractors. With a background in engineering, Wyatt brings a systematic, results-driven approach to helping small businesses—particularly window cleaners, roofers, and renova...

    32 min
  6. JAN 15

    The Science and Strategy of Link Building with Alejandro Meyerhans

    In this deep-dive conversation, Alejandro Meyerhans shares his journey from Spanish waiter to CEO of a successful link building agency, revealing the mathematical foundations and strategic frameworks that make link building work. We explore the science behind PageRank, the evolving role of links in LLM optimization, Google's HCU updates, and the hard truths about operating within platform ecosystems. Guest Bio Alejandro Meyerhans is the CEO of GetMeLinks, a strategic link building agency serving agencies and CMOs. Since 2016, Alejandro has built his SEO expertise from the ground up—starting with affiliate sites, becoming a forensic SEO auditor, and eventually leading one of the industry's most respected link building operations. He's known for his data-driven approach, combining mathematics, game theory, and rigorous testing to demystify what actually works in modern link building. Connect with Alejandro: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/alejandro-meyerhans YouTube: Alejandro Meyerhans SEO Company: GetMeLinks.com Key Topics Discussed From Waiter to SEO Expert (00:00 - 04:03) How Alejandro discovered SEO in 2016 while trying to escape waiting tables in Spain Working with Dominic Wells at Onfolio (now NASDAQ-listed) The transition from building affiliate sites to becoming a forensic SEO auditor How he became CEO of GetMeLinks after being a client first The intersection of math, statistics, game theory, and SEO The Science of Link Building (04:03 - 10:28) Why link building has intentional opacity and FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) Key influencers: Charles Floate, Matt Diggity, and the TEDSEO testing community Understanding what's working versus understanding why it works The importance of analyzing competitive backlink profiles How to read the link graph and replicate winning strategies Core Link Signals Beyond PageRank (10:28 - 14:35) PageRank: The foundational "link juice" model and how it divides authority Anchor text ratios: Why exact match anchors no longer work (0% in most winning profiles) Reasonable Surfer: Link placement matters—body links above the fold carry more weight Passage rank: Surrounding text relevance amplifies or diminishes link value Link velocity: Must be proportional to traffic, brand search volume, and referral sources Container authority: The power of both the linking page AND the linking domain Sequential timing: Why you can't start a new site with 100 digital PR links Related Resource: How to Start a Link Building Campaign Distance to Seed and Verticality (14:35 - 22:03) Understanding Google's seed list: .gov, .edu, and tier one authorities How topical authority spreads from hub sites in each vertical Why locksmith SEO is different from e-commerce which is different from YMYL The completion game: You only need to match top 3 competitors plus a bit more SEO as a jigsaw puzzle—technical foundation, content, user signals, brand signals The logarithmic nature of PageRank (getting from DR 80 to 90 costs exponentially more) Related Resource: Link Building for New Websites Link Gap Analysis Methodology (22:03 - 29:33)...

    56 min
  7. JAN 14

    Killing Content Marketing Strategy In the Age of LLMs with Alison Ver Halen

    How a Psychology Degree, Blog Writing, and Storytelling Built a $75K Content Marketing Success About This Episode In this episode of the Unscripted SEO Podcast, host Jeremy Rivera sits down with Alison Ver Halen, founder of AV Writing Services and author of Content Marketing Made Easy. Alison shares how she accidentally fell into content marketing after graduating during the 2009 recession, and how writing blog posts for a law firm led to $75,000 in new business within just six months. The conversation covers the evolving landscape of SEO and content marketing, including E-E-A-T principles, the Helpful Content Update, the "robot sandwich" of AI-driven search, and why storytelling remains the most powerful tool in a content marketer's arsenal. Guest Bio Alison Ver Halen is the founder of AV Writing Services and a content marketing strategist with nearly a decade of experience. With degrees in English and Psychology from Lawrence University, Alison helps professional service providers attract, engage, and convert high-quality leads through strategic blog content, landing pages, and brand storytelling. She is also the author of Content Marketing Made Easy. Key Takeaways The $75K Blog Post Discovery: Alison's first content marketing client saw $75,000 in new business within six months—just from blog posts she was writing for his law firm Information Gain is Everything: The key to standing out isn't just creating content—it's adding your unique perspective, experience, and stories that ChatGPT can't replicate E-E-A-T is About How You Write: Rather than technical markup and author schemas, E-E-A-T signals come from first-person experience and professional perspective woven into your content Don't Propose on the First Date: Match your calls-to-action to where prospects are in the buyer journey—a newsletter signup beats a sales call request for top-of-funnel visitors The Robot Sandwich: With AI tools searching other AI outputs based on human-created content, writing for humans remains the winning strategy It's Still SEO, People: Despite the hype around GEO, AIEO, and AEO, the fundamentals of search engine optimization haven't changed—just the platforms Guest Everything: Podcasts, blogs, newsletters—earned media builds the Know-Like-Trust factor that drives real business results Topics Discussed [00:00] Introduction and Alison's background [02:34] The $75,000 aha moment in content marketing [04:02] Methodology for researching and developing unique content [05:54] E-E-A-T: What it really means for content creators [10:22] The "robot sandwich" of AI-driven search [14:05] Understanding the buyer journey and sales funnel [15:51] Lead magnets and CTAs in the post-ChatGPT era [19:42] The Helpful Content Update and brand identity [26:08] GEO, AIEO, AEO—why it's still just SEO [27:02] Link building in the age of LLMs [36:49] Best practices for content quality and distribution [41:08] Where to find Alison Ver Halen Notable Quotes "After six months, he came back and told me that I had brought in $75,000 worth of business to his law firm just through the blog posts I was writing for him." "We are primed to connect with stories, we are primed to remember stories. So that is critical for getting your point across and for being memorable." "I refer to it as proposing on the first date. Like, well we just met, dude. That is way too much way too soon. And you're gonna scare them off." "AI does not generate anything. It just regurgitates what humans have already created." "It's still SEO, people. Just becau...

    38 min

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

Hosted by Jeremy Rivera: A 17 year career expert in the SEO industry and his cohost Keith Bresee. Get insights, action items and anecdotes from experts like Lilyray, Kevin Indig, Rand Fishkin, Matt Mellinger and more in the SEO industry, who are not only well-respected, but have really interesting stories to share. 100% unscripted, 100% unrehearsed, 100% unedited, and 100% real. Guaranteed to provide those golden nugget lightbulb moments.