The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

Jeremy Rivera
  • 5.0 (2)
  • Entrepreneurship

Hosted by Jeremy Rivera: A 17 year career expert in the SEO industry and his cohost Keith Bresee. Get insights, action items and anecdotes from experts like Lilyray, Kevin Indig, Rand Fishkin, Matt Mellinger and more in the SEO industry, who are not only well-respected, but have really interesting stories to share. 100% unscripted, 100% unrehearsed, 100% unedited, and 100% real. Guaranteed to provide those golden nugget lightbulb moments.

  1. 3d ago

    The Tail Can't Wag the Dog: Tom Malesic on Agency Culture

    Tom Malesic started EZMarketing thirty-five seconds after quitting a boss who refused a client he disagreed with — and he has spent the twenty-nine years since building the opposite kind of company. In his second turn on the Unscripted SEO Podcast he makes the case that core values are your culture, not a poster: why his book is a large volume of small customers so his top five could leave tomorrow without a single layoff, why the customer who yells at your team has to go, and how an EOS cadence keeps a fully remote team accountable across three countries. He also gets practical: training a per-client AI agent on Hats.ai so the machine knows the client’s voice better than any single team member, the CIPA and ADA compliance demand letters now landing in small-business inboxes, and the unglamorous truth that most marketing budgets are wasted on leads nobody calls back. In this episodeThe 1996 origin story — how one boss’s refusal handed Tom his first customerWhy core values ARE your culture, and the “I gotta cover my ass” hire who proved it“The tail can’t wag the dog” — surviving the loss of your top five clientsFiring the customer who made an employee cry, and coaching customers like you coach staffHow one toxic employee wrecks a culture — and your GlassdoorRunning fully remote on EOS, with an 11,000 sq ft office holding four peopleOne trained AI agent per client across ~70 modelsCIPA and ADA compliance demand letters — landing right nowBe open to being lucky, and never be the smartest person in the roomRead the full recap: The Tail Can’t Wag the Dog Tom’s first interview: The Website Is the Center of Everything

  2. 5d ago

    The Content Ladder: How to Get Found at Every Rung of the Buyer's Question

    Alyssa Evans started school as an art major and finished with a science degree — and that creative-plus-analytical split is exactly how she runs Grow Your Strategy. In this episode she makes the case that the funnel is the wrong mental model entirely, and that what replaces it is a content ladder. Alyssa is a growth strategist working mostly with fintech, real estate tech, and SaaS companies — including investors raising money for syndications and adjacent plays like storage units and ATM investing. Her first month with any client is spent auditing rather than executing, because until you know a founder's archetype and comfort level, you're guessing. She's blunt about what's failing right now: the last eight months of her work have included cleaning up websites wrecked by auto-generated content. In this episode Why the first month of any engagement should be auditing, not acting — and how client archetypes change the plan The content ladder — showing up at the most basic question in your niche and every rung of complexity above it Auto-blogging is a liability: what Alyssa is seeing as she repairs AI-content damage Why LLMs favor content updated in the last three months — and what that means for your archive Cross-team collaboration as a speed advantage — what product and sales know that marketing doesn't Building feedback loops that don't backfire — where Slack and Reddit communities burn brands, and what works instead Community as its own marketing channel — word of mouth 2.0, and "growing in public" Why link building is becoming networking — non-competitor partnerships, cross-promotion, and podcasts as an authority engine Chapters [MM:SS] — Meet Alyssa Evans: continuous improvement as a operating principle [MM:SS] — From art major to growth strategist [MM:SS] — The power of cross-team collaboration [MM:SS] — First-month friction: auditing before acting [MM:SS] — Finding the niche: fintech, real estate tech & SaaS [MM:SS] — SaaS's moving target: the release/marketing/satisfaction cycle [MM:SS] — Customer feedback loops that actually work [MM:SS] — Community as a marketing channel [MM:SS] — AI, GEO, and the content ladder [MM:SS] — Top of funnel is dead; go deeper [MM:SS] — Link building in the age of AI [MM:SS] — Where to find Alyssa Notable quotes "You need to make sure that you're found at that base level and working their way up — think of it as a content ladder." — Alyssa Evans"If you really start to talk to your customer like they're building the product with you, you will just be much more successful." — Alyssa Evans"Everyone will have an opinion, and they are valid in their world — but you have to stand your ground, and then the data will come later." — Alyssa Evans Resources & links Grow Your Strategy — Alyssa's strategy and content company Alyssa Evans on LinkedIn · @growyourstrategy on Instagram On repairing AI-generated content damage — human-certified, expert-sourced content On earning authority off-site — the

  3. Jul 24

    Property Management SEO Done Right: Owners, Doors & AI Search (Alex Zweydoff)

    Alex Zweydoff came up in the property management industry before founding ClearLead Digital, an agency that niched down to do SEO right for property managers — measuring success in doors added, not vanity metrics. We get into why you target owner-intent keywords instead of tenant traffic, how hyperlocal city and sub-community pages win the highest-intent owners, speed-to-lead, and why property managers who don’t adapt to AI search now could vanish in 12–24 months. Alex also breaks down custom client dashboards and the local-SEO plays most PM agencies get wrong. More interviews + free SEO SOPs at Unscripted SEO.

    Property Management SEO Done Right: Owners, Doors & AI Search (Alex Zweydoff)

  4. Jul 21

    Search Everywhere Optimization With David Wilson of Zozimus

    Zozimus EVP David Wilson — an SEO since the AltaVista days — joins Jeremy Rivera on The Unscripted SEO Podcast to argue that "search engine optimization" is now search everywhere optimization: findability across social, LLMs, and Google, not rankings for their own sake. He breaks down the expected-CTR model that turns raw Google Search Console data into the traffic clients are leaving on the table, the internal-linking tactic that still works after a decade, digital PR and brand as the new link building as AI erodes unbranded search, and a Gemini + ChatGPT + Claude → NotebookLM method for tearing down a competitor's SEO weak points. Plus: building a defensible moat, faceless brands vs. putting a face forward, and why the About page is now an AI asset — more from David at Zozimus.

    Search Everywhere Optimization With David Wilson of Zozimus

  5. Jul 20

    Optimize Your Brand, Not Just Your Website — Sonia Urquilla (SEO by Sonia)

    Sonia Urquilla (SEO by Sonia) turns SEO into something the average coach or consultant can actually use. Jeremy met her on TikTok, and in this episode she shares the framework she calls “brand optimization” — getting found and mentioned everywhere your audience searches, not just ranking a website. It’s personal for her: she watched her dad’s local shop close for lack of visibility — no Google Business Profile, no website — and now helps female founders and service providers avoid that same fate. What you’ll learn: What “brand optimization” means — and why SEO now spills into PR, Reddit, podcasts, citations & local events How one client’s masterclass went from ~100 attendees to 1,000+ by combining a press release, ads, email & Reddit The local “goldmine” online service providers ignore — and how sponsoring local charities/events (via Zip Local) earns links, trust & leads Why AI has leveled the playing field — and why fear-mongering keeps small businesses from using it The follow-up gap: ~80% of local businesses never reply to a message (and how to fix it) How to vet an SEO: do they actually do their own SEO? Jeremy’s open-source tool pick: OpenSEO (GSC + backlink data, an MCP, ~$10–20/mo) Watch the video: youtube.com/watch?v=M1fdsssDiw8 Connect with Sonia: Website: seobysonia.com (grab a free video website audit) · LinkedIn: Sonia Urquilla · TikTok & Instagram: @seobysonia More interviews at unscriptedseo.com — browse the topical hubs for past guests like Rand Fishkin & Grant Simmons. Plus the keyword-research tool at SEO Arcade

  6. Jul 19

    Benjamin Behrooz on Empathy, Blue-Collar Marketing & the AI Silver Lining

    Unlock the secrets of effective branding with Benjamin Behrooz! In this episode, we dive deep into the importance of empathy in business and how it can transform your client relationships. Discover how to scale your business while maintaining authenticity and learn about innovative marketing strategies that work in today's competitive landscape. Key takeaways: The role of empathy in understanding customer pain points. How to balance scale and authenticity in marketing. Strategies for home service businesses to thrive in a saturated market. The impact of AI on marketing and customer engagement. Tips for leveraging community involvement to enhance brand visibility. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 00:16 Meet Benjamin Behrooz 00:58 The importance of empathy in business 01:28 Solving client pain points 03:16 Balancing scale and authenticity 05:39 Common pitfalls in business planning 08:09 Marketing strategies for home services 10:22 The future of blue-collar work 12:10 The impact of AI on marketing 15:45 Unique implementations of AI 19:45 The silver lining of AI adoption 24:20 Community involvement and brand visibility 31:22 The biggest mistake brands make 32:13 How to connect with Benjamin What's your biggest challenge with branding? Drop it in the comments! Subscribe for more insights on effective marketing strategies and branding tips!

    Benjamin Behrooz on Empathy, Blue-Collar Marketing & the AI Silver Lining

  7. Jul 16

    Link Building for SaaS: The Strategies That Still Work in the AI Era | Kristiyan Yankov

    Most SEOs treat link building like a chore. Kristiyan Yankov built a whole agency on it. He’s the founder of Above Apex, a link-building agency niched hard on SaaS — and in this conversation with host Jeremy Rivera he lays out one of the sharpest, most practical models we’ve heard for building links (and brand mentions) in the AI era. Kristiyan freelanced since high school, went through “generalist hell,” and niched down after Alex Hormozi’s “one avatar, one ICP, one service” clicked. Now he runs SaaS link campaigns full-time — and he’s refreshingly blunt about what actually works. In this episode Why SaaS is a richer link-building field than local — 5–10 viable strategies vs. a narrow local playbook The real bottleneck isn’t knowledge, it’s bandwidth — why teams need a dedicated partner they don’t have to micromanage Two pricing models: per-link vs. fixed, month-to-month (and why no lock-in drives lifetime value) How to actually evaluate a link opportunity — 5–10 metrics, not just DR: “if it makes sense to me, it makes sense to Google” The two best SaaS strategies: listicles/roundups (40%+ carry traffic and feed AI Overviews) and reverse expert-quote outreach (they’ve earned BBC links this way) Anchor velocity, Penguin, and why spammy links get disregarded, not penalized (his read of the Google leak) Timeline to impact (~30–60 days for well-run sites), the SMB sandbox, and the best DIY strategy for bootstrapped founders: three listicle “buckets” The big-picture take: AI search is an extension of the fundamentals, not a replacement — and more than half of AI citations trace back to UGC platforms Chapters (00:00) Meet Kristiyan Yankov — from “generalist hell” to SaaS link building (02:56) Why SaaS is a richer link-building field than local (07:07) The #1 hurdle: bandwidth (and the case for a dedicated partner) (08:37) Pricing — per-link vs. fixed, month-to-month, no lock-in (12:34) Has AI/LLM demand made link-building budgets an easier sell? (17:03) How to evaluate a link: “Google isn’t more stupid than me” (19:59) Is Bing / alternate-engine link behavior worth chasing? (22:31) The top two SaaS strategies: listicles & expert quotes (27:03) Anchor velocity, Penguin & spam devaluation (30:54) Timeline — when link building shows measurable impact (32:12) Advice for SMBs & the sandbox effect (35:15) The best DIY strategy: three listicle buckets (37:08) Where to find Kristiyan Notable quotes “You shouldn’t trust anyone. You should verify — especially in our industry.” — Kristiyan Yankov“If I look at a link building opportunity and it makes sense to me, it would be the same for Google — because Google is definitely not more stupid than me.” — Kristiyan Yankov“The fundamentals aren’t going to disappear. When the hype is over, my team can still provide everything we do today.” — Kristiyan Yankov Resources & links Above Apex — Kristiyan’s SaaS link-building agency (he’s active on LinkedIn 5–6 days a week) Go deeper on the mechanics in SEO Arcade’s complete guide to link building & authority Kristiyan & Jeremy both count guesting as link fuel — that’s the idea behind podc...

  8. Jul 14

    The Two Types of SEO Left: Zak Ali on Surfaces, Digital PR & Terminal-Native Workflows

    Most SEOs are defending a job that no longer exists. Zak Ali () — General Manager of Finder US ( and one of the rare practitioners who took SEO from the terminal to the executive suite — argues the discipline didn't shrink, it got absorbed. In this episode he and host Jeremy Rivera () get into "search everywhere optimization," why he dissolved Finder's dedicated SEO team, and why retention — not rankings — should be every SEO's core KPI. Zak started in search in 2015, co-founding the news blog Rant and growing it to ~100,000 readers before joining Finder in 2018 as a publisher, then head of growth, and now GM of the U.S. business — owning organic, paid, email, CRM, and sales. In this episode: - Why LLMs turned search engine optimization into search everywhere optimization (a nod to AJ Kohn's "surface optimization" (https://www.infinitevisibilitygroup.com/posts/surface-optimization/)) - The two types of SEOs left: technical SEOs, and SEOs who haven't realized their job is now digital PR and branding - Why Zak killed the SEO team and rebuilt it as a generalist growth org - Retention as an SEO KPI — "the traffic you have today is as cheap as it's going to be" - How AI is putting the customer first again (and why "slop" predates LLMs) - YMYL trust signals, editorial independence, and the regulatory "back door" to search - Google News (be first) vs. Google Discover (entity optimization, and ephemeral traffic) - The terminal-native stack: Ahrefs MCP, Claude Code (https://www.anthropic.com/claude-code), DataForSEO (https://dataforseo.com), building your own LLM tracker, and a "second brain" in Obsidian (https://obsidian.md) - Information gain and anecdotes — why LLMs can't have experiences (with the obligatory Darmok and Jalad reference) Chapters: - (00:00) Meet Zak Ali — Rant, Finder, and Finder Rewards - (02:55) SEO within LLMs: search everywhere / surface optimization - (05:26) Selling SEO's value to the executive suite - (08:02) How AI puts the customer first again - (09:17) Which pre-LLM SEO strategies survived - (10:50) "AI is the steroids SEOs needed" & the Helpful Content Update as a correction - (13:13) Is AI traffic its own channel — or a piece of the puzzle? - (14:51) Regulated/YMYL industries and trust signals - (18:21) Google News vs. Google Discover - (22:06) Retention as the real KPI — and killing the SEO team - (24:27) Paid vs. organic, and systems thinking - (26:45) Tools he loves right now - (28:29) Open-source SEO, MCP, and living in the Claude Code terminal - (29:27) Second brains, "publisher" agents, and AI org charts - (34:49) The question for the next guest: is the faceless brand dead? - (40:44) Rebranding SEO → "search everywhere optimization" Notable quotes: ▎ "There are two types of SEOs that exist today. There are the technical SEOs, and there are SEOs who haven't realized yet that their job is digital PR and branding." — Zak Ali ▎ "The traffic you have today is as cheap as it's going to be. It's only going to get more expensive. Retention should be a core KPI of every SEO." — Zak Ali ▎ "What AI is doing is actually allowing us to put the customer first again." — Zak Ali

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About

Hosted by Jeremy Rivera: A 17 year career expert in the SEO industry and his cohost Keith Bresee. Get insights, action items and anecdotes from experts like Lilyray, Kevin Indig, Rand Fishkin, Matt Mellinger and more in the SEO industry, who are not only well-respected, but have really interesting stories to share. 100% unscripted, 100% unrehearsed, 100% unedited, and 100% real. Guaranteed to provide those golden nugget lightbulb moments.

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