The Zuni Youth Enrichment Program Speaks (part 2)

The second of a two-part series. In this episode, we talk to an alumnus of the Zuni Youth Enrichment Program, Cassandra Tsalate. A potter, she discusses how she connects to her community through her art and the empowerment she gains through her pottery.

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TRANSCRIPT:

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Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah. And the thing, too, about pottery is, yes, over time, it will break. It will diminish. But when it does, that's when you know that its life was its full potential.

Ranger Jonah; Hello, and welcome to Grand Canyon Speaks. My name is Ranger Jonah.

Ranger Melissa: And I'm Ranger Melissa.

Ranger Jonah: And, Melissa, this is the second part of our interviews with alumni from the Zuni Youth Enrichment Program.

Ranger Melissa: Yeah. This one is with Cassandra Tsalate. She goes by Cassie. Really cool Zuni potter, only 21 years old. Really fun interview, hearing about her connection to community through art.

Ranger Jonah: Excellent. Can't wait to hear it. Without further ado, Cassie.

Cassandra Tsalate: Hi, everybody. My name is Cassie Tsalate, and I'm from the pueblo of Zuni, and I am 21. This is my first time here at the Grand Canyon.

Ranger Melissa: Yeah, and we're excited you're here. You're here with some other folks in the audience representing the Zuni Youth Enrichment Program. You're alumni of that, which is really cool that you're out here, especially you've only been doing this for how long?

Cassandra Tsalate: For at least a year and a half.

Ranger Melissa: So not too long. And your work is already, like, mind blowing how good it is.

Cassandra Tsalate: Thank you.

Ranger Melissa: My first question is how did you get into pottery, and how did you find pottery as you found that talent and that inspiration?

Cassandra Tsalate: Well, as a kid, I've always found an interest in art, basically drawing. I used to draw all the time. But one thing that got to me was seeing how pottery, the symbols, I've always wanted to see what they meant, because my family, they're jewelry makers. And sometimes I will ask them, what does this mean? What does that mean? Sometimes they will give me an answer, sometimes they wouldn't. And so, I grew up with them being more of my inspiration, jewelry makers, but not just jewelry makers, other artists as well. Yeah. And so, with pottery, I recently became an intern at the A:shiwi A:wan Museum. And so, as an intern there, I got to take a look at the older pieces, pieces that were there that were made in the 1600s. And so, with those pieces, I got to really just kind of observe them. And then there was pieces that were coming through that were from the early 1900s, and I got to actually look at those ones.

Ranger Melissa: Oh, cool. Yeah, like, actually handle them?

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah, I got to actually handle them. Where I even got a chance to look at some candlesticks and a water jar that was made in the 1920s.

Ranger Melissa: Oh, cool.

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah.

Ranger Melissa: Is that what's inspiring the candle jar you're working on right now?

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah. So with the candle...

Ranger Melissa: Do you mind if I show everybody? Talk about it?

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah. So, about the candlestick holder. Candlesticks weren't introduced until the Spanish arrived, which is the 1600s. And then moving forward into the 1800s, they were made mainly for the art market or possibly for the churches, because we do have Catholicism in our tribe. And so, moving forward, candlestick holders weren't being made, really, because then electricity came into our village and so nobody really makes candlestick holders. And so, I decided maybe I'll bring them back.

Ranger Melissa: That's cool. I like how you're kind of seeing these things that you're looking at in the museum and then trying to bring it back or revitalize some of that culture. What is your favorite part about being inspired by other artwork?

Cassandra Tsalate: My favorite part is the dedication. The dedication it takes for people to work from piece to piece. And it takes a lot. And the cool thing about every artwork is that it's not just one person. It takes a whole family; it takes a whole community to be involved. Like jewelry. Some people have their husbands working on a certain thing. Some people have their wives working on a certain thing. Same thing goes with pottery. And so they just inspire each other to work hand in hand.

Ranger Melissa: That's really cool. So, it's like communal artwork, almost.

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah, communal, definitely.

Ranger Melissa: It's like everyone's putting in part of it, and then you get this beautiful piece of artwork at the end.

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah. So, everybody's involved. Kids, even the youth, all the way to the elders.

Ranger Melissa: That's really cool.

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah.

Ranger Melissa: You were saying you like looking at the designs and find the meanings. Do you have a favorite design that you have given meaning to?

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah, so one of those pieces is not really here, but my favorite designs here would be like, the rainbird. So, the rainbird is this bird that has this hatching on it, and so it represents the rain falling. And so, on this part, like the whole piece, you have here the spiritual world at the top, at the neck. And then you have the middle, which is the present world, and then the bottom, the black part, which is the underneath worlds. And so, my design for the rainbird is that this rainbird touches the water, and it goes into bringing the rain. And through the top part is the spiritual world. And so, the rainbird is going to the left, which it means that the rainbird is going to meet our ancestors. And then through the present world, the rainbird is coming back to bring the rain.

Ranger Melissa: Oh, cool. It's like a cycle.

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah, it's like a cycle. And then we have here also prayer sticks. Prayer sticks. And of course, the mountains on the rainbow itself that show the heavens and a river that goes in between. Yeah.

Ranger Melissa: That's really cool. What parts of your art are traditional versus contemporary? And how would you define the two of those? For those who don't know what that means.

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah, so traditional would mainly consist of the actual form. So, for instance, the black on white here, these are more made from the prehistoric times, which our ancestors, the ancestral Puebloans they would be making the black on white, such as this corrugated. And so that was made way back like hundreds of years back.

Ranger Melissa: Corrugated?

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah, corrugated is a cooking vessel. It holds the heat in and it's very sturdy too, so it prevents it from overflowing.

Ranger Melissa: Have you tried cooking in it?

Cassandra Tsalate: No, I haven't. With this one I haven't. So that's my next project. And so throughout the years, then you go moving forward to things like this, the rainbird, the water jars, which are more from the 1800s and then going on to more the recent stuff, which is like the 1900s onto today.

Ranger Melissa: That's cool.

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah.

Ranger Melissa: Do you have parts of the art that are only in your work? Like, I know that is a Cassie original? Do you do anything like that?

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah, I do. For instance, this owl. So, this owl here. Well, owls were actually made 100 years back, but the difference between my owl compared to others is usually owl's beaks will be connected, but mine is different. And then its wings don't expand, it's just kind of tucked in. It's tucked into its side. And then so this is the owl. The owls functioned as seed jars. And these seed jars, they would hold the seeds. A long time ago, when our village would get raided by the outside communities, the nomadic tribes, they come in and would steal the seeds. But in order to protect the seeds, our people then made the owls. The other people, they didn't want to even touch the owls because it was taboo for them. And so, in an innovative way, they put these to hide them. And so, this is how this owl came to be.

Ranger Melissa: That's cool.

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah.

Ranger Melissa: Do you mind if I show that one too?

Cassandra Tsalate: Yeah.

Ranger Melissa: Cool.

Cassandra Tsalate: And so other things too, that I make that are different are in the designs. I really want to get more into knowing what the designs mean, to interpret it for myself. We really don't know what some of these designs mean and so we're trying to get back into knowing what these designs mean. And so, I come up with things like I call this bird's eye view, which is this abstract version of the sun and then the bird kind of flying into the sky. And then these triangles kind of depicting this geometric figure of a bird flying in the sky.

Cassandra Tsalate: So, they're all different. They all each have their own meanings along with this candlestick. Through all these different designs, there's things that represent the wind forming, which is always like a swirl. And so, the swirl always depicts wind or sometimes water. So, you have that and then you have the earth, which is the black bottoms. But the crazy thing is I never really found out what the symbol for fire really is. And so maybe it's hidden, maybe it's there, but we really don't know. And so, with this candlestick holder, I decided that this part is supposed to be red, so I'm going to paint it red. And then this will mean like, the fire. And this is the clouds. So w