Think Twice with Jonathan Tobin

The Internet and mainstream media are inundated with misinformation and superficial hot takes. That’s why you’re not getting the full story. Take another look with JNS Editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin as he takes deep dives into the most critical stories and controversies impacting the Jewish world with insightful commentary and fascinating interviews. If you want to understand the bigger picture and the context of the issues that really matter, this show is for you. Thanks for listening to Jonathan Tobin's podcast. If you appreciated today’s discussion and want to dive deeper into the issues shaping Israel and the Jewish world, join our community by subscribing to our newsletter. Your engagement keeps our journalism thriving. Your support is crucial. Support us with a donation to ensure we can continue delivering in-depth reporting: Donate Now!

  1. 4D AGO

    Ep. 198: American Jews must go from victims to fighters

    Can American Jews shake off their defensive posture rooted in fear and a distorted conception of Jewish values to begin acting to both deter those who attack them and to convince them that the Jews are not easy prey for antisemitic thugs? According to JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin, that’s the question the Jewish community must confront of an unprecedented surge in Jew-hared in the two years since the Oct. 7, 2023 attack on Israel. He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by Benjamin Kerstein, author of the new book, Self-Defense: A Jewish Manifesto. He says it’s time for Diaspora Jews to shake off the constraints of what he calls “learned helplessness,” a mindset that conditions victims to believe they have no recourse but to endure violence without seeking to take action to defend themselves. Historically, this was overcome by the Zionist movement and the founding of the modern state of Israel. But in America, most Jews react to the post-Oct. 7 assault on their rights and safety with passivity. As we saw on college campuses where pro-Hamas mobs terrorized Jewish kids, they were told to shelter in place and to not confront their tormentors. Kerstein argues that what happened at UCLA in 2024 was a model of how to end the harassment of Jews. There, a group of Jewish students responded to a pro-Hamas encampment by aggressively making it clear that Jews would not be intimidated. Though the action was flawed by violence, this forced the university administration to act to end the encampment. A better idea would have been non-violent action in which Jews confronted the antisemites wherever they sought to block access to campus sites. He says the model not to follow was that of the Jewish Defense League and its leader Rabbi Meir Kahane. It descended to illegality and violence that not only led to the government shutting it down but also in discrediting the whole idea of Jewish self-defense for generations. Rather, what is needed is a Jewish version of the civil rights era group the Students Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) that confronted racism around the United States and helped usher in an era of equality.  What is also clear, says Kerstein, is that the Jewish establishment and those organizations like the Anti-Defamation League, whose task it is to defend Jews are not doing their job. Their policies are a product of politics in which they have long preferred to focus on lesser threats like that of neo-Nazis rather than on the greater peril posed by progressives who have effectively imposed their antisemitic beliefs on the education system and much of American culture. Above all, Jews must, he argues, embrace the anger they feel about what has happened in the last two years and start to make “good trouble”—the phrase coined by civil rights hero Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) who urged African Americans to non-violently stand up to discrimination. Jews must now do the same when it comes to the broad array of antisemitic threats posed by forces on both the political left and right.     Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    1 hr
  2. NOV 20

    Ep. 197: Feelings replaced thinking as antisemitism surges

    How did supporters of Hamas and others who want Israel destroyed win over so many young people since Oct. 7? According to JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin, the answer lies in large measure in the ability of progressives to redefine words in such a way as to normalize Jew-hatred and help create a surge of antisemitism.  He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by scholar Donna Robinson Divine, co-editor of the new book, October 7: The Wars Over Words and Deeds, a collection of essays exploring issues relating to the war on Israel and how the Jewish state’s opponents have helped turn truth on its head to demonize Israel. According to Divine, on college campuses across the country, “feelings replaced thinking” as many young persons who know little or nothing about the Middle East, were convinced to believe that supporting a genocidal and antisemitic cause was the right thing to do. The veteran scholar of the Middle East said she was shocked not merely at the distorted nature of the discussion about the post-Oct. 7 war but also because not a single head of an elite university told their students to “go and study” the subject of their protests. She says that compared to student protest movements of the past, the pro-Hamas activists don’t seem to know what they’re talking about or have a clear idea of what they want. Other, that is, than wanting Israel to disappear, though even there they don’t seem to realize that doing so would involve Jewish genocide. Divine points out that a study of the history of the conflict quickly reveals that the goal of the Palestinian movement isn’t about statehood, it’s the principle of not sharing any part of the land with the Jews. Redefining terms is also important to the cause of delegitimizing Israel. Divine points out that by changing the meaning of the word “genocide”—coined in the aftermath of the Holocaust to mean an attempt to wipe out an entire people—to merely meaning “depriving them of agency,” the pro-Palestinians have smeared the Jewish state as guilty of genocide. Though she also notes that if the Palestinians have lost the ability to determine their own future, it’s because of their own decisions. Just as sinister is the way Palestinian employed “extreme violence” and rape on Oct. 7, only to see their supporters deny these crimes happened, despite abundant evidence for them provided by the perpetrators. Most important, is how the Palestinians and their supporters have worked to demonize the Israeli victims, both to make the terrorists appear as if their atrocities are justified and to depict the Jews as deserving of being murdered, raped or kidnapped. Divine also says that the willingness of opponents of Israel to delegitimize the Jewish state’s actions when they are no different from those of other countries leads to the inevitable conclusion antisemitism is the explanation for these double standards.   Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    1h 2m
  3. NOV 13

    Ep. 196: Jews vs. Rome: Jewish disunity is fatal

    Though the study of history is being slighted by contemporary educators, according to JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan S. Tobin, knowledge of the past, including that of the ancient world, is more important than ever if we are to understand current dilemmas. And that’s especially true in the Middle East.   He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by Hoover Institution scholar Barry Strauss, one of the leading experts on the ancient world and the author of the new book, Jews vs. Rome: Two Centuries of Rebellion Against the World’s Mightiest Empire.   Strauss’s book tells the story of the three rebellions fought by Jews against the Roman Empire over the course of a 70-year period stretching from 66 C.E. to 136 C.E. that included the Great Revolt, the destruction of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple, a little-known Diaspora revolt and the Bar Kochba rebellion. The history of these struggles is integral to the story of the Jews. But some historians call the Jews of the ancient world Judeans rather than Jews. Strauss disagrees with this since, as he says, “this is to write Jews out of Jewish history.”   The historian says there are some important lessons for Jews and Israelis to draw from these tragic episodes.   One is the danger of disunity. The divisions between the Jews fighting the Romans and each other inside besieged Jerusalem were, he says, “absolutely fatal.” He notes that, there should be a lesson that you can only take political disputes during a time of war or in a dangerous period “only so far.” That’s something that Israelis learned from the Oct. 7, 2023 attack, since the Palestinians believed they were too divided to unite and defend their county.   Strauss says another issue is the relationship between faith and politics. Jewish extremists believed that God would save them if they fought Rome no matter how steep the odds. “Faith is essential for Jews and for everyone in their own particular way. But when you are letting it lead you to politically dangerous, unintelligent decisions, then you have to really think things through and you have to be careful of what you're doing.”   Yet another lesson Strauss says that can be drawn from the revolts is that “small states never are fully independent.” In fact, he added, “Even large states are never fully independent. Everyone needs allies, but small states above all need allies. And so, I think Israel today must learn from the lesson of the failure of the rebels in the great revolts.” Speaking of the Jewish rebels, he says, “They had a plan that was an intelligent plan, which involved getting help from Parthia [an independent kingdom located in modern-day Iraq and Iran that successfully resisted Rome]. But they should have been able to do a cost-benefit analysis and say, it's not likely and maybe back down then.”   The author says the failure of America’s education system to teach history is “terrible” and largely the fault of progressives. “The so-called woke people are selling narratives that give a completely different view of American history and of the world, and that makes it easier for people to push the button of the oldest hatred and to cast the Jews as the villains,” Strauss says. “It’s absolutely essential for the next generation, for good people to get control of the educational system and to bring us back to a sensible educational system in which people can study history without fear or favor in an unbiased way. We know as citizens, whether we're Jewish or not, that education is absolutely essential. So, this is something that we have to prioritize.”   Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    54 min
  4. NOV 5

    Ep. 195: Mamdani’s Win: Can US Jews Reverse the Anti-Zionist Tide?

    The victory of Zohran Mamdani is a watershed moment for American Jewry, says JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin. For the first time in living memory, Jews are dealing with a surge of antisemitism that the election of an avowed anti-Zionist will exacerbate. He is joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue in New York City, a leading liberal critic of Mamdani.   According to Hirsch, the danger from a Mayor Mamdani for New York Jews isn’t necessarily a matter of him downgrading protection for Jewish institutions. Rather, he says, “History demonstrates to us that wherever anti-Zionism is normalized and wherever it has support, anti-Zionism has support from high-level government officials, as night follows day, hostility to Jews increases.” Moreover, as he learned from a meeting between the mayor-elect and a group of rabbis, Mamdani is ideologically committed to the war against Israel, it’s “the core principle of his political ideology. That’s why he can’t explain away his support for “Globalize the intifada.”   Hirsch also notes that the surge of antisemitism since Oct. 7 has traumatized liberal Jewish New Yorkers who have seen their erstwhile allies fail them. “Many of them disappointed us and some of them actually betrayed us.”   The rabbi also noted that the disaffection from Israel on the part of many American Jews, is due in part to the failure of  liberal Jewish religious denominations including his own Reform movement. He says they “mistaught” the concept of tikkun olam by failing to make it clear that while universal values are a vital part of Jewish identity, many of the youngsters didn’t also learn that defending Jewish rights and expressing Jewish particularism, including support for Israel, is also integral to liberal Judaism.   At the core of the problem is, he said, “There's simply a very deep and broad Jewish illiteracy in the American Jewish community” that can only be corrected by increased emphasis and support for Jewish day schools, camps and trips to Israel.

    51 min
  5. NOV 2

    Ep. 194: Why antisemites and globalists hate Israel

    Everything you learned about the horrors of nationalism and the importance of multilateral and supranational organizations like the United Nations is wrong, says JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin. Much of the West has been taught to denigrate the idea of faith in a system of independent sovereign states after World War II and to support systems that undermine them. But the truth is that the most likely source of hate, bigotry and oppression in the 21st century doesn’t come from nationalists, but from liberals and leftists who seek to impose their ideas on the world by any means necessary. He’s joined in this week’s episode of "Think Twice" by Yoram Hazony, author of the seminal 2018 book The Virtue of Nationalism, which has just been republished in an updated edition. He points out that though modern liberals have accepted the idea that Adolf Hitler’s Nazism was a natural consequence of German nationalism, the truth is that it was a scheme for imperial domination, much like the ambitions of Napoleon and Stalin. It had nothing to do with the notion of an international order of independent sovereign states that, as Hazony writes, is the best recipe for freedom, despite the fact that all countries are flawed. He also points out that the contemporary push to downgrade national freedom in favor of globalism and the rule of international organizations, like the United Nations or the European Union, is another instance of that same desire for imperial rule in which elites in one place seek to dominate other nations. Hazony believes that the anti-Zionism and antisemitism directed at Israel is, in large measure, derived from the resentment of Marxists and Europeans who have lost faith in the rights of their own countries to national independence and sovereignty feel about the Jewish state’s willingness to fight for its right to exist and thrive. In this way, Israeli nationalism is viewed as unacceptable and paradoxically linked to the intolerance of the Nazis when, in fact, Zionism is a rational and much-needed response to the powerlessness and lack of national sovereignty of the Jews during the Holocaust. The intolerance of these anti-nationalists on the left for those, like Israelis, who resist their diktats, is similar to the way true believers in an ideological faith regard those who resist their ideas, he said. That, along with traditional antisemitism, is fueling the fires of hatred against Israel. Hazony, who leads the Edmund Burke Foundation, which has organized several National Conservative conferences in Europe and the United States since his book was first published, acknowledged that he was troubled by the growth of anti-Israel sentiment among some American conservatives since the Hamas-led Palestinian Arab attacks on Israel on Oct. 7, 2023. Most American conservatives have embraced U.S. President Donald Trump’s version of nationalism, which is very supportive of Israel. But some figures, labeled by Hazony as “alt-right,” seek to push Jews out of the conservative movement and are hostile to the Jewish state. That’s creating a problem for the Trump administration. Their need to keep their electoral coalition intact may be setting up a situation where they need to confront people like former Fox News host and current political commentator Tucker Carlson, but are “hesitant” to do so. But the author said he still has hope that it will do so in a firm way. Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    1h 3m
  6. OCT 23

    Ep. 193: The Real 'Conspiracy' Israel Haters Miss (At Their Own Risk)

    According to JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin, a growing number of otherwise marginal right-wing voices are joining forces with most of those on the left to bash Zionism and Israel. He is joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by Breitbart.com’s Joel Pollak who believes that Zionism isn’t just a movement of Jewish rights but a model for how every group and nation can emphasize success rather than a harmful focus on being victims.   Pollak is the author of the newly republished book The Zionist Conspiracy Wants You and believes that instead of demonizing Zionism, the rest of the world, including the Palestinians, ought to learn from it. In his view, it provides a model for empowering and bettering the lives of non-Jewish minorities who are otherwise mired in divisive minority-group woke politics.   He sees anti-Zionism from the left as, in part, derived from anti-American ideas that oppose all successful nations as morally suspect. And the hatred for Israel that has surged in the last two years is rooted in a desire to spread fear among Jews.   The anti-Israel attitudes that are coming from the right are partially the result of traditional antisemitism and also based in envy of Israel as well as delusional conspiracy theories about the Jewish state controlling the United States. Those who oppose Israel are also putting themselves on the wrong side of history and opposing President Donald Trump, which is a certain loser for conservatives.   Tobin and Pollak disagreed about how to handle people like podcaster and former Fox News host Tucker Carlson and the openly antisemitic Candace Owens. Pollak sees Carlson’s anti-Israel attitudes and platforming of antisemitic guests including Holocaust deniers as the result of the Anti-Defamation League’s attacks on him before he was openly antisemitic.   Tobin believes that Carlson was always an opponent of Israel and that his departure from Fox News just removed the guardrails that existed there which deterred him from platforming hatemongers in the way that he does now in his podcast. Tobin believes that prominent conservatives need to denounce antisemitism even when it comes from friends and allies. Pollak prefers to accentuate the positive and thinks it’s not too late for Carlson to change but agrees that even a “big tent” has walls, meaning that some things must always be unacceptable.   Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel.

    1h 8m
  7. SEP 30

    Ep. 192: Trump’s Gaza Peace Plan: Path to Peace or New Disaster? (w/Ruthie Blum)

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had no choice but to go along with the scheme but believing that President Donald Trump’s 20-point plan for ending the war in the Gaza Strip can work still requires a leap of faith, says JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin. He believes that there’s little reason to think Hamas will free the hostages and surrender their arms and control of the Strip even if Trump is offering them no alternative. Tobin is joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by JNS contributing editor and columnist Ruthie Blum who believes that while an end to the war with the “barbarians” of Hamas on Trump’s terms is possible, but she said we shouldn’t call that “peace” if it involves releasing more terrorists in exchange for freeing Israeli hostages and believing that the Palestinians are ready to change. While she was skeptical that Hamas would take this opportunity to end the war, the Trump plan won’t involve trust since nothing will move forward if all of the hostages are not freed first. Still, she feared that any deal that will mandate the release of Palestinian terrorists from prison may lead to more bloodshed in the same way that the 2011 agreement that freed kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit led to the Oct. 7 massacres. She also agreed with Tobin that the Trump administration’s faith in the good will of Qatar is a mistake since that regime funds terrorism and Islamist fundamentalism around the globe. Blum believes that businessmen like Trump and his envoy Steve Witkoff simply don’t understand Muslim fanaticism since they view the world solely through the prism of business deals based on mutual interests. They fail to realize that the war between Jews and Arabs is about much more than real estate. Blum pointed out that those who claim that Israel can’t achieve its objectives by military means are wrong and that Netanyahu is right. If there is to be any progress toward ending the war it is only because of the military pressure that Israel has exerted on Hamas. What will be needed for Trump’s deal to do more good than harm, as was the case with previous attempts to broker peace, is for him to stick to his word and let Israel “finish the job” of defeating Hamas if they don’t agree to the deal or violate it afterward. That’s not what happened in the past when Israel made concessions to the Palestinians in the 1993 Oslo Accords and the 2005 withdrawal from Gaza. Blum sympathizes with Netanyahu when he tells his supporters to pipe down about extending Israeli sovereignty to Area C of Judea and Samaria where Jewish communities exist. His priority must be to avoid alienating Trump and showing patience on the issue since that is in Israel’s interests.

    50 min
  8. SEP 25

    Ep. 191: Has the October 7 trauma shocked American Jews into action?

    The question facing American Jewry is which trend is more important. As JNS editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin notes, a lot of American Jews have been shocked by both the trauma of the Oct. 7 attacks and the subsequent surge of antisemitism into increased activism on behalf of Israel and giving to Jewish causes. But on the other hand, a large number of Jews, especially progressives, are becoming more assimilated, less interested in Jewish life and alienated from Israel. He’s joined in this week’s episode of Think Twice by eminent scholar and author Jack Wertheimer, whose new book Jewish Giving: Philanthropy and the Shaping of American Jewish life traces the history of the subject up and to the present day. According to Wertheimer, since Oct. 7, “Jews have come out of the woodwork to give in support of Israel and support of Jewish institutions.” But on the other hand, there has been a marked decline in giving to Jewish causes over the course of recent decades. In the 2020 Pew Research Center survey on American Jews, showed that for the first time, a majority of them were not giving to Jewish philanthropies. Wertheimer said there was overlap between this group and those whom demographers describe as “Jews of no religion,” and those identity as political progressives. The problem is greater among younger Jews who are being heavily influenced by what he described as “propagandistic social media” that is hostile to Israel and the “tribal” loyalties to Israel and the Jews that is out of fashion on the political left. It is this portion of the community that sees the problem with Jewish groups and philanthropies as being that they are too focused on Jewish causes rather than not enough interest in them. Wertheimer’s research leads him to the conclusion that the problems facing umbrella Jewish philanthropies like federations are no different to those being faced by similar secular groups. He also thinks the belief that “big donors” are having a disproportionate impact driving the agenda of the Jewish community is overblown. Jewish groups and donors are not monolithic in their agendas. He says the key question facing the Jewish community is how it can follow up on the post-Oct. 7 increase in interest in Jewish life from those who have been galvanized by the actions of Hamas and its antisemitic supporters, including among those secular Jews who had been “checking out” of the community. Wertheimer asserts that even as major Jewish philanthropies have recognized the importance of support for Israel, they're also recognizing the vital importance of educating the next generation and also socializing them into participating in Jewish communal life. Because without that, there won't be a future for Jewish philanthropy in the next generation. Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Listen/Subscribe to weekly episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, iHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you liked this episode, watch more Think Twice here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsksduy16U5Kb-ZQdW5aIj7xGhY1kk6i0&si=ar3F8TsXM898lAJi Become a JNS Channel Member: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC24cdDLzkNJf2_CNNzdI-UQ/join Watch new episodes every week by subscribing to the JNS YouTube Channel. Become a JNS Channel Member: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC24cdDLzkNJf2_CNNzdI-UQ/join

    57 min
4.9
out of 5
118 Ratings

About

The Internet and mainstream media are inundated with misinformation and superficial hot takes. That’s why you’re not getting the full story. Take another look with JNS Editor-in-chief Jonathan Tobin as he takes deep dives into the most critical stories and controversies impacting the Jewish world with insightful commentary and fascinating interviews. If you want to understand the bigger picture and the context of the issues that really matter, this show is for you. Thanks for listening to Jonathan Tobin's podcast. If you appreciated today’s discussion and want to dive deeper into the issues shaping Israel and the Jewish world, join our community by subscribing to our newsletter. Your engagement keeps our journalism thriving. Your support is crucial. Support us with a donation to ensure we can continue delivering in-depth reporting: Donate Now!

More From JNS

You Might Also Like