Female employees are often the most vocal champions of extreme workplace ‘inclusion’ – but how much power have they really held? Do we risk letting men off the hook, for allowing bad ideas to infect organisations? And are we in danger of erasing the vital role played by all the women who have risked everything to push back on ‘woke’ at work? In this special live episode, recorded in front of an audience at the Battle of Ideas festival in London on 17 October 2026, Tanya de Grunwald is joined by author and academic Joanna Williams, whose book How Woke Won charted the takeover of our institutions by identity politics. Together, they take on the fashionable theory that women alone are responsible for the rise of ‘woke’ at work, and argue that the truth is far more interesting. They ask: - What does a ‘woke’ workplace actually look like? Rainbow lanyards, pronouns in email signatures and posters for menopause awareness training are the obvious giveaways. But Jo argues the real tell is who sets the priorities: the people who do the core work, or a DEI team and a professional managerial class with very different concerns. - What is the ‘feminisation’ theory, and does it stack up? American writers Helen Andrews and Heather Mac Donald argue that around 2015, women tipped into the majority in professions like law, medicine, academia and journalism, bringing with them values that put consensus before confrontation and emotion before reason. Jo agrees the timing fits, but warns that correlation is not causation. - Does it matter that HR is so female-dominated? As a survivor of the CIPD’s Festival of Work, Tanya estimates the crowd is 95% women. But Jo says HR’s growing power, not just its headcount, is the real story, and the seeds were sown long before 2015. - Was a crisis of purpose the real culprit? Jo argues institutions were hollowed out first, and ‘woke’ rushed in to fill the gap. Why could universities no longer simply say they exist to educate, the NHS to treat the sick, or the BBC to report the news? - Did feminism’s blind spot on class make things worse? Jo contrasts BBC presenters in posh suits fighting over the gender pay gap with the women cleaning, catering and doing hair and make-up behind the scenes. Tanya points out that industries which let their talent pipelines narrow, such as publishing, journalism, charities and fashion, have fallen hardest for ‘woke’. - Where were the men? Finance, law, comedy and the unions are all male-dominated, yet ‘woke’ thrives there too, and most leaders are still men. Tanya asks why so many women who stood up to this stuff found no backup from male colleagues, and why so few men were willing to take on other men pushing gender ideology at work. - Why couldn’t leaders just say what their organisation is for? Jo’s answer to ‘woke’ is disarmingly simple: a university’s job is to teach, a bank’s is to make money. Activism is fine, but do it on your own time, not your employer’s. What’s needed now is a return to prioritising purpose. - The audience joins in too, with Kate Harris of LGB Alliance renewing her call for a public inquiry into Stonewall’s grip on UK workplaces, a lively debate on the ‘diversity equals profit’ myth and why ‘bring your whole self to work’ was never as simple as it sounded. Tanya closes with a challenge: the UK’s organisations don’t have a courage deficit, she argues, they have a courage problem at the top. Lower down, we’ve simply taught people that speaking up doesn’t pay and keeping quiet does. Enjoy the episode!
