In this episode of Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing, Joel Harrison sits down with Jon Miller, co-founder of Marketo and Engagio, and one of the most influential figures in modern B2B marketing. Jon literally helped create the demand generation playbook that defined an entire era of marketing automation—and now, he's here to explain why that same playbook might be fundamentally broken. What happens when the very systems you helped build no longer reflect how buyers actually make decisions? ➡️ Jon brings a rare combination of technical rigor (he studied physics before pivoting to marketing) and decades of hands-on experience building category-defining companies. He doesn't just critique the old model—he unpacks why MQLs, linear funnels, and attribution models were always a bit simplistic, and why they've become completely disconnected from today's complex, non-linear buying reality. This conversation digs into the chaos theory of B2B buying, the rising importance of brand over demand, and why trust has become the most critical currency in an era of AI-generated content overload. Jon also reveals what he believes CMOs need to do differently to survive the next decade, why marketing platforms built for the old playbook are now limiting progress, and what he's building next to solve these challenges. If you've ever felt like your marketing metrics don't tell the full story, or wondered why demand gen tactics that used to work suddenly don't, this episode will give you clarity. Jon talks openly about the internal trust crisis facing CMOs, the political coalition-building skills that tomorrow's marketing leaders will need, and why the future of B2B marketing will be defined by experiences, relationships, and craftsmanship—not just campaigns and conversions. Whether you're questioning the MQL model, struggling to justify brand investment, or trying to navigate AI's impact on your go-to-market strategy, this conversation offers both validation and a path forward. Follow Jon Miller https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/details/experience/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/adobemarketoengage/ If you care about making B2B marketing more meaningful, useful, and memorable, this conversation is for you. It's honest, reflective, and packed with takeaways that can help elevate your approach to thought leadership—whether you're a content creator, strategist, or brand leader. 🌐 Visit Joel Harrison's website to explore exclusive reports, upcoming events, and join the B2B marketing community ➡️ https://www.joelharrisonb2b.com/ 💬 What do you think comes first—building demand or building brand? Let us know in the comments below. 🔔 Subscribe to the channel for weekly insights, interviews, and on-the-ground perspectives from the world of B2B marketing. https://youtube.com/@JoelHarrison-B2B?sub_confirmation=1 00:00 - Introduction 02:33 - Jon's journey from physics to pioneering marketing automation 08:06 - Why the MQL model is fundamentally flawed and no longer works 13:58 - The evolution from demand gen to ABM to brand focus 18:36 - The critical role of trust in B2B brand building 22:23 - The internal trust crisis facing CMOs today 25:11 - What the next generation of successful CMOs will look like 30:12 - Jon's new AI-native startup in stealth mode 32:04 - How marketers should adapt to the AI-powered future 35:09 - The future of marketing: experiences, relationships, and craftsmanship 📲 Follow Joel Harrison and Trust & Influence in B2B across the web: LinkedIn ▶ https://linkedin.com/in/joelharrison/ Podcast ▶ https://trust-influence-in-b2b.captivate.fm/ Instagram ▶ https://instagram.com/joelharrisonb2b/ #JoelHarrisonB2B, #B2BMarketing, #ThoughtLeadership, #ContentStrategy, #MarketingTrends, #B2BContent, #BrandVsDemand, #Storytelling, #MarketingPodcast, #B2BInsights, #JoelHarrison, #B2BVideos, #B2BStrategy, #JonMiller, #MarketingAutomation, #DemandGeneration, #AccountBasedMarketing, #ABM, #MarketingLeadership, #CMOInsights, #BrandBuilding, #AIinMarketing, #MarketingPlaybook
