Two Shrinks on the Farm

Robyn McKay & Barbara Kerr
  • 4.9 (12)
  • Mental Health
  • Updated Weekly

Two Shrinks on the Farm🎙️ Psychology meets soul—on a farm, in a field, or wherever we happen to be.Hosted by award-winning psychologists Dr. Robyn McKay and Dr. Barbara Kerr, Two Shrinks on the Farm is where intellect and intuition collide—in the best possible way. With a combined five decades of clinical, academic, and creative experience, Robyn and Barb explore the intersection of personality, spirituality, creativity, and the messy, magical business of being human.Sometimes they record from their Kansas farm. Sometimes it’s a historic ranch in Arizona. Wherever the conversation happens, it’s always real, insightful, and laced with a good dose of dry humor and deep compassion.🎧 Listen in for:Unfiltered conversations on psychology, spiritual harm, creativity, and healingSmart takes on personality, intuition, and giftednessDeep dives into the experiences that shape us—and sometimes undo usBonus crossover episodes with Bewitched and other series hosted by RobynWhether you’re a fellow therapist, a spiritual entrepreneur, or someone navigating your own awakening, Two Shrinks on the Farm is a place where your curiosity and complexity are welcome.

  1. 11/06/2025

    2SOTF Episode 14: Pain, Purpose, and the Timeline Shift

    Episode 14: Pain, Purpose, and the Timeline Shift In this deeply moving episode, Barb returns to the mic for the first time since her life-threatening fall from a horse. What unfolds is a raw, luminous conversation between two lifelong psychologists—and friends—about pain, meaning, and the strange ways life reroutes us. Inside this episode: Barb’s harrowing account of her injuries, surgeries, and recovery—including the thirty minutes she spent in unbearable pain without medication.How pain changes identity: from professional achiever to someone forced into stillness.The privilege of medical access, and the despair of realizing how many don’t have it.What happens to creativity when pain (or pain medication) becomes a constant companion.The parallels between physical pain and psychological trauma—and how both demand meaning.The eerie synchronicity of both Barb and Robyn starting TikTok accounts the same week as the accident.A conversation about timelines, fate, and “spooky action at a distance.”The intersection of psychology and spirituality: knowing when to apply science, and when to allow for mystery.The question that lingers: When the future crumbles, do we crumble with it—or create something entirely new? Quotes from the episode: “Pain has been my constant companion. The best it gets is background noise; the worst is thunder.” – Barb“We construct meaning with the universe, not in isolation.” – Barb“When the future collapses, we can despair—or we can build what’s never existed before.” – RobynMentioned in this episode: Chronic pain and pain managementPsychological trauma and creativityExistential therapy and meaning-makingCultural privilege in healthcare accessTikTok as a platform for midlife reinventionQuantum entanglement, spirituality, and scienceHosts: Dr. Robyn McKay & Dr. Barbara Kerr Recorded live from Kansas and California Produced by sheology by dr robyn mckay if you're interested in having your personality tested and interpreted by the two of us, or you're ready to bring us in to work with your teams, Get started by sending an email to robyn@drrobynmckay.com and we'll help you start the process. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram for more behind the scenes fun from the farm, creative insights, and plenty of laughs from the reels that I'm constantly posting in stories. You can find us on instagram at @twoshrinksonthefarm. Last thing: we'd really love it if you'd rate and review our podcast on whatever platform you listen to us on - and share us with your buddies - the more the merrier!

    47 min

  2. 07/18/2025

    2SOTF Ep 13: Stillness Is Medicine: Healing the Ones Who Hold Us All (ft. Michael Diana)

    In this episode, Robyn is joined by Michael Diana, a PhD student in Counseling Psychology and the youngest member of Barb’s academic lineage. They come together in the wake of Barb’s recent injury to reflect on what it really means to let healers receive the care they so often give. Together, they explore themes of presence, spiritual bypassing, helper dynamics, and how to discern when we’re being helpful versus performative. The episode closes with a Loving-Kindness Meditation dedicated to Barb—and to every healer learning how to rest. In This Episode: What happens when the healer is laid outPresence vs. performance in supportHealing dynamics in high-functioning helpersWhy some people can’t stop fixing—even at the bedsideBioenergetic coherence and the ripple effects of nervous system calmPersonal stories of checking in, holding back, and choosing discernment over urgencyLoving-Kindness Meditation (for Barb and beyond) Guest: 👨‍🎓 Michael Diana PhD candidate in Counseling Psychology at the University of Kansas Instagram: @michaeldiana Mentions & Resources: Barb (our beloved co-host and mentor)Research on Loving-Kindness Meditation and trauma recoveryTranscendental Meditation and Washington D.C. crime rate studyPower of prayer and field coherence in healingCalls to Action: 📝 Subscribe to Two Shrinks on the Farm 💬 Leave a review and share this episode 📧 Subscribe to Robyn’s LinkedIn newsletter: The Work Beyond Work 📲 Follow Robyn on TikTok: @dr.robynmckay if you're interested in having your personality tested and interpreted by the two of us, or you're ready to bring us in to work with your teams, Get started by sending an email to robyn@drrobynmckay.com and we'll help you start the process. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram for more behind the scenes fun from the farm, creative insights, and plenty of laughs from the reels that I'm constantly posting in stories. You can find us on instagram at @twoshrinksonthefarm. Last thing: we'd really love it if you'd rate and review our podcast on whatever platform you listen to us on - and share us with your buddies - the more the merrier!

    45 min

  3. 06/12/2025

    2SOTF Ep. 12: The One Where We Remember What Freedom Feels Like

    Recorded from a perch above the white sand dunes of Lake Michigan, this episode is part love letter to Camp Miniwanca, part reckoning with the state of academia, and full-bodied remembrance of what true freedom feels like—beyond the metrics, meetings, and masked brilliance. Dr. Robyn McKay and Dr. Barbara Kerr drop in from Professor Camp, where each summer, faculty from across the country gather to reconnect with the parts of themselves that don’t fit on a CV. In this episode, we talk about: The paradox of intellect in America—why professors are resented and reveredBarb’s new book, The Psychology of Liberty, and what we’ve lost in our cultural definition of “freedom”Time poverty and the myth of virtuous overworkThe heartbreak of masking your brilliance just to surviveWhy creative kids—and the adults they grow into—need each otherWhat it actually feels like to be free (spoiler: it’s not a tax cut)Community as refuge, rest as rebellion, and nature as reminderWe also share personal stories of leaving the academy, reclaiming creativity, and finding flow again—whether in a desert in Arizona, or under the Icelandic sky. Mentioned in this episode: The Psychology of Liberty by Dr. Barbara Kerr - you can order your copy from your favorite indy bookstore - please & thank you!The cultural co-opting of freedomSmart girls, creative misfits, and masked intellectualsRest, rebellion, and redefining successThe birds. Yes, you can hear them. 🎙 Listen now to The One Where We Remember What Freedom Feels Like. Then maybe take a nap. Consider it revolutionary. if you're interested in having your personality tested and interpreted by the two of us, or you're ready to bring us in to work with your teams, Get started by sending an email to robyn@drrobynmckay.com and we'll help you start the process. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram for more behind the scenes fun from the farm, creative insights, and plenty of laughs from the reels that I'm constantly posting in stories. You can find us on instagram at @twoshrinksonthefarm. Last thing: we'd really love it if you'd rate and review our podcast on whatever platform you listen to us on - and share us with your buddies - the more the merrier!

    30 min

  4. 04/03/2025

    2SOTF Ep 11: Breaking the Spell (Again): A Two Shrinks x Bewitched Crossover

    Breaking the Spell (Again): A Two Shrinks x Bewitched Crossover Recorded at: Saguaro Lake Ranch, Arizona In this special crossover episode of Two Shrinks on the Farm, Dr. Robyn McKay and Dr. Barbara Kerr trade the Kansas prairie for the Arizona desert as they meet at the historic Saguaro Lake Ranch—a place steeped in memory, healing, and academic roots. Together, they unpack the darker side of spiritual mentorship in the wake of Dr. McKay’s 24-day misadventures, into what can only be described as a psychologically and spiritually injurious retreat. What begins as a reflection on shared history quickly unfolds into a compelling dialogue on the anatomy of spiritual harm, psychological resilience, and how even the most well-adjusted among us can find ourselves under the spell of charismatic—but ultimately dangerous—leaders. You’ll hear: Why “if it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone” is more than just a warning—it's a truth about openness, intellect, and altered states.Barb's reflections on her own spiritual misadventure decades ago—and how it mirrors Robyn’s experience.The psychology behind cult-like dynamics, and how spiritual teachers can slide from benevolent mentors to manipulative leaders.The difference between spiritual crisis and psychiatric diagnosis—and why the integration of wisdom from both is essential to healing.The Dark Tetrad of personality and how delusions, narcissism, and moral injury intersect.What to keep, what to leave behind, and how to reclaim your gifts after spiritual betrayal. ✨ Plus: An unapologetically sharp and wise conversation on rituals, walk-ins, demon possession, and why spiritual healing doesn’t need to come with a side of psychological warfare. 🎧 This episode is part of the Bewitched series, co-hosted by Robyn McKay and Alyse Bacine, released alongside Louisa’s story. 🎧 Listen to Louisa’s powerful story—dropping today—over on She{ology} by Dr. Robyn McKay and get caught up on the 7 previous episodes of Bewitched while you’re there. Thank you for being part of this conversation—we’re just getting started. Also, you can... follow Barb on Facebook follow Robyn on IG 🔗 Reserve your copy of the upcoming ebook Healing the Healers: 11 Things Every Spiritually Intelligent Leader Needs to Know About Helping Clients After Spiritual Harm. You can do that right here: Healing the Healers if you're interested in having your personality tested and interpreted by the two of us, or you're ready to bring us in to work with your teams, Get started by sending an email to robyn@drrobynmckay.com and we'll help you start the process. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram for more behind the scenes fun from the farm, creative insights, and plenty of laughs from the reels that I'm constantly posting in stories. You can find us on instagram at @twoshrinksonthefarm. Last thing: we'd really love it if you'd rate and review our podcast on whatever platform you listen to us on - and share us with your buddies - the more the merrier!

    1h 9m

  5. 02/04/2025

    2SOTF Ep 10: Two Shrinks and a Gynecologist Walk Into Menopause

    Hosts: Dr. Robyn McKay & Dr. Barbara Kerr Guest: Kimberlee McKay, MD (OBGYN, Maternal-Fetal Medicine Specialist) Menopause isn’t the end—it’s just another beginning (with some hot flashes, hormone fluctuations, and a whole lot of societal myths to unravel). In this episode, Barb and Robyn welcome a very special guest—Dr. Robyn’s younger sister, Dr. Kimberlee McKay, an OB-GYN and maternal-fetal medicine expert, who brings her signature blend of medical wisdom and sharp humor to the conversation. From the reality of perimenopause to the myths of menopause and the cultural phenomenon of female invisibility after 50, this episode covers it all. Kimmy shares her clinical insights on why menopause is different for every woman, what’s actually effective for managing symptoms, and why your give-a-shit gene might just turn off completely (and that’s a good thing). Topics Covered:✔️ The truth about perimenopause (and why it can last up to a decade) ✔️ Menopause vs. stress: how modern life speeds up hormonal shifts ✔️ Barb pokes holes in the grandmother theory ✔️ Weight gain, night sweats, brain fog—what’s real, what’s nonsense ✔️ How menopause symptoms mimic anxiety & depression (and why many women are misdiagnosed) ✔️ The invisibility effect after 50—and why some women refuse to disappear ✔️ HRT, bioidenticals, and why estrogen got such a bad rap ✔️ The NEO Personality Inventory, emotional regulation, and how menopause changes who you are ✔️ Why menopause might just be the ultimate glow-up Barb also shares a legendary cowgirl story about wrinkles, Kimmie drops some OB-GYN wisdom on birth control after 40, and Robyn reflects on how menopause shifts your life purpose, self-acceptance, and confidence. Connect & Resources:🌿 Want Barb and Robyn to analyze your personality with the NEO Personality Inventory? Reach out at robyn@drrobynmckay.com 🐴 Follow Dr. Kimberlee McKay on X (formerly Twitter) @OBGYNKenobi 📖 More about Dr. Robyn McKay’s work: @robynmckayphd on Instagram 📍 Follow us on Instagram: @twoshrinksonthefarm 🎧 Subscribe to Two Shrinks on the Farm for more fresh takes on psychology, creativity, and life beyond the ordinary Press play and find out why menopause might just be the most freeing chapter yet if you're interested in having your personality tested and interpreted by the two of us, or you're ready to bring us in to work with your teams, Get started by sending an email to robyn@drrobynmckay.com and we'll help you start the process. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram for more behind the scenes fun from the farm, creative insights, and plenty of laughs from the reels that I'm constantly posting in stories. You can find us on instagram at @twoshrinksonthefarm. Last thing: we'd really love it if you'd rate and review our podcast on whatever platform you listen to us on - and share us with your buddies - the more the merrier!

    1 hr

  6. 01/28/2025

    2SOTF EP 9: From the French Resistance to Freedom Work: Courage for Challenging Times

    Welcome to Two Shrinks on the Farm! Yes, we really are shrinks, and we really do live on a farm. With four free-roaming horses, two playful dogs, and a couple of curious cats, life here is anything but sterile. This episode takes us from our sunny beginnings (literally picking cherries and weeding the garden) to deep discussions about how to navigate the heaviness of the world as helpers, healers, and leaders. What You’ll Hear in This Episode:The story behind the podcast’s title and how our lives have brought us full circle to this farm.What it means to be a helper or healer—whether formally or informally—in today’s world.Insights on the collective feelings of exhaustion, fear, and overwhelm among psychologists, social workers, and other helpers.How the French Resistance during WWII inspired courage and the power of small acts of hope and solidarity.A deep dive into the concept of “Freedom Work,” including reclaiming time, creativity, storytelling, and connection as a means to overcome time poverty and societal constraints.Practical ideas for finding your community, supporting those most vulnerable, and creating courage in uncertain times.Lighthearted musings about life on the farm, from windy dog walks to the simple joy of a Friday night Moscow mule.Key Takeaways:Freedom begins at home: Prioritize small, joyful acts like storytelling, creativity, and connection in your own life.Courage and community matter: Even in dark times, small actions and solidarity can make a significant difference.Planned happenstance: Stay hopeful, open to possibility, and ready for good things to come your way. Join the Freedom Work MovementWe’re building a community of like-minded helpers and healers who want to connect, share, and create a freer, more vibrant future. Want to join us? Sign up to stay in touch: https://robyn-mckay.myflodesk.com/yu89hj2m4r. Stay Connected:Follow us on Instagram: @TwoShrinksOnTheFarmShare this episode: Help us grow our community by sharing the podcast with your friends and leaving a review—we’d love to hear your perspective!Thank you for joining us today. Until next time, keep your spirit wild, your heart grounded, and we’ll see you back on the farm before you know it! 🐴🐾 if you're interested in having your personality tested and interpreted by the two of us, or you're ready to bring us in to work with your teams, Get started by sending an email to robyn@drrobynmckay.com and we'll help you start the process. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram for more behind the scenes fun from the farm, creative insights, and plenty of laughs from the reels that I'm constantly posting in stories. You can find us on instagram at @twoshrinksonthefarm. Last thing: we'd really love it if you'd rate and review our podcast on whatever platform you listen to us on - and share us with your buddies - the more the merrier!

    44 min

  7. 01/14/2025

    2SOTF Ep 8: Busting Creativity Myths: Everyday Creativity and Freedom in Community

    Episode Summary: In this episode of Two Shrinks on the Farm, Dr. Robyn McKay and Dr. Barbara Kerr tackle common myths about creativity, diving into what it really means to live a creative life. They explore creativity as a personality trait, a process, and a product while debunking myths like “everyone can be highly creative” and “you’re too old to be creative.” Drawing from decades of research, the duo discuss the role of openness to experience in creativity, the tension between solitude and community, and how systemic barriers around gender and privilege have shaped creative recognition. Along the way, they share stories of extraordinary creators and the everyday acts of creativity that bring purpose and joy to life. The conversation closes with reflections on the importance of finding creative communities, embracing freedom within structure, and living boldly as a creative person, regardless of where you are on your journey. Topics Covered: What defines creativity: Person, process, and productThe link between openness to experience and creative potentialEveryday vs. eminent creativity: Why both matterHow privilege and systemic biases shape creative recognitionThe interplay of solitude and community in creative livesCreative communities and the freedom to thriveRethinking age and creativity: It’s never too lateWhy parenting creative kids is different (and how to support them)Listener Takeaways: Everyday creativity is accessible to everyone, from designing a new recipe to reorganizing your space.Creative potential isn’t limited by age—some of the best creative work happens later in life.Creativity thrives in supportive communities that balance freedom with structure.Systemic barriers shouldn’t diminish your creative aspirations—breaking those boundaries is part of the journey.Quote of the Episode: “Creativity isn’t just about creating art or music—it’s the way we problem-solve, connect with others, and make life meaningful.” – Dr. Robyn McKay Resources & Mentions: Csikszentmihalyi’s work on creativity and flowTorrance Tests of Creative ThinkingResearch on the role of openness to experienceLawrence Creates Makerspace if you're interested in having your personality tested and interpreted by the two of us, or you're ready to bring us in to work with your teams, Get started by sending an email to robyn@drrobynmckay.com and we'll help you start the process. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram for more behind the scenes fun from the farm, creative insights, and plenty of laughs from the reels that I'm constantly posting in stories. You can find us on instagram at @twoshrinksonthefarm. Last thing: we'd really love it if you'd rate and review our podcast on whatever platform you listen to us on - and share us with your buddies - the more the merrier!

    1h 3m

  8. 01/06/2025

    2SOTF Ep 7: Selective Conscientiousness: Creativity Over Perfection

    Episode Highlights: What is Conscientiousness? Robyn and Barb break down the six facets of conscientiousness and discuss why highly creative people often score low in this personality factor.Selective Conscientiousness: How being selectively dutiful can help you excel in your passions while letting go of unnecessary perfection.New Year Reflections: Insights on making resolutions that align with your purpose and how to prioritize what deserves your 100% effort.Creativity vs. Conformity: Why conscientiousness, when taken too far, can smother innovation, and how to reclaim your creative freedom.Slob for a Week Protocol: Barb shares her therapeutic approach to breaking free from overly conscientious habits.Resources Mentioned: Smart Girls in the 21st Century by Dr. Robyn McKay and Dr. Barbara KerrThe Perfect Future Day Fantasy exerciseStory about outsourcing conscientiousnessNext Episode: A deep dive into creativity and the quirks that make it thrive. if you're interested in having your personality tested and interpreted by the two of us, or you're ready to bring us in to work with your teams, Get started by sending an email to robyn@drrobynmckay.com and we'll help you start the process. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram for more behind the scenes fun from the farm, creative insights, and plenty of laughs from the reels that I'm constantly posting in stories. You can find us on instagram at @twoshrinksonthefarm. Last thing: we'd really love it if you'd rate and review our podcast on whatever platform you listen to us on - and share us with your buddies - the more the merrier!

    1h 7m
See All (15)

4.9
out of 5
12 Ratings

About

Two Shrinks on the Farm🎙️ Psychology meets soul—on a farm, in a field, or wherever we happen to be.Hosted by award-winning psychologists Dr. Robyn McKay and Dr. Barbara Kerr, Two Shrinks on the Farm is where intellect and intuition collide—in the best possible way. With a combined five decades of clinical, academic, and creative experience, Robyn and Barb explore the intersection of personality, spirituality, creativity, and the messy, magical business of being human.Sometimes they record from their Kansas farm. Sometimes it’s a historic ranch in Arizona. Wherever the conversation happens, it’s always real, insightful, and laced with a good dose of dry humor and deep compassion.🎧 Listen in for:Unfiltered conversations on psychology, spiritual harm, creativity, and healingSmart takes on personality, intuition, and giftednessDeep dives into the experiences that shape us—and sometimes undo usBonus crossover episodes with Bewitched and other series hosted by RobynWhether you’re a fellow therapist, a spiritual entrepreneur, or someone navigating your own awakening, Two Shrinks on the Farm is a place where your curiosity and complexity are welcome.

Information

  • Creator
    Robyn McKay & Barbara Kerr
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2025
  • Episodes
    15
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 sheology by dr. robyn mckay, llc All Rights Reserved.
  • Show Website
    Two Shrinks on the Farm